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In covering Ricci, media should not promote "extraordinary rebuke" myth

June 29, 2009 11:33 am ET

SUMMARY: In covering the Ricci case, reversing Judge Sonia Sotomayor's decision, media should not promote the myth that the reversal represents a "historic rebuke" or that Sotomayor's Supreme Court reversal rate is "high."

168 Comments

As Media Matters for America has noted, in a May 27 editorial, The Washington Times stated that if the Supreme Court were to reverse Supreme Court nominee Judge Sonia Sotomayor's decision in Ricci v. DeStefano, "It would be an extraordinary rebuke were a current nominee to be overruled on such a controversial case by the very justices she is slated to join." Now, in covering the Supreme Court's decision in Ricci, reversing by a 5-4 margin a decision by the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals -- joined by Sotomayor -- the media should not join the Times in promoting the myth that the reversal represents a "historic rebuke" or that Sotomayor's Supreme Court reversal rate is "high." Indeed, as a judge on the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals, current Justice Samuel Alito was reversed on at least four occasions before his confirmation to the Supreme Court and received a "rebuke" as an appeals court judge by Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, whom he replaced.

In his book, The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court (Doubleday, 2007), New Yorker staff writer and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin wrote that, in 1992, O'Connor had "excoriated" the "logic, approach, and conclusions" of her eventual successor, Alito, in her opinion for the abortion-rights case, Planned Parenthood v. Casey. Moreover, Alito identified four more reversals -- in each of which O'Connor voted with the majority reversing Alito -- in his Supreme Court nomination questionnaire:

  • Rompilla v. Horn, 355 F.3d 233 (3d Cir. 2004), cert. granted 542 U.S. 966, and rev'd 125 S.Ct. 2456 (2005)
  • Thomas v. Comm'r of Soc. Sec., 294 F.3d 568 (3d Cir. 2002), cert. granted 537 U.S. 1187, and rev'd 540 U.S. 20 (2003)
  • Coss v. Lackawanna County D.A., 204 F.3d 453 (3d Cir. 2000) (en banc), cert. granted 531 U.S. 923 (2000), and rev'd 532 U.S. 394 (2001)
  • Fiore v. White, 149 F.3d 221 (3d Cir. 1998), cert. granted 526 U.S. 1038, question certified 528 U.S. 23 (1999), certified question answered 562 Pa. 634 (2000), and rev'd 531 U.S. 225 (2001)

Alito was reversed unanimously in Thomas.

Furthermore, it also would not be unprecedented for the court to reverse a ruling reached by a justice before his or her elevation to the Supreme Court. As an appeals court judge, Chief Justice John Roberts was a member of a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, which, in its July 2005 unanimous ruling in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, allowed a military commission to try Salim Ahmed Hamdan, a Guantánamo Bay detainee.

Roberts was confirmed as chief justice several months later, in September 2005. Then, in 2006, the Supreme Court reversed the circuit court's decision on a 5-3 ruling.

Moreover, contrary to the myth that it is unusual for the Supreme Court to reverse federal appellate court decisions, data compiled by SCOTUSblog since 2004 show that the Supreme Court has reversed more than 67 percent of the federal appeals court cases it considered each year, except 2007, when it reversed federal appeals court cases 61 percent of the time.

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    • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 11:47 am ET)
      2 15
      No matter how you slice it, they rebuked Sotomayor. Period.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 11:51 am ET)
        3 15
        Exactly right. One can argue the semantics of "historic" or not. But the decision she participated in and agreed with was rebuked.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 11:57 am ET)
          12 1
          It was reversed. This happens every day. You guys look like utter dolts to treat this any differently. You're like grave-dancers dancing on the wrong grave, or in a part of the cenetary where no one's buried yet. I suppose that Alito and Scalie were being REBUKED when THEY had decisions reversed? YOu people are sofa king stupid. There's not a judge in exsistance that hasn't had decision reversed. And they guy's she's replacing (Souter) dessented in that 5-4 decision. Which makes the whole argument that she's somehow out of line with the court patently absurd.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DavidDial (June 29, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
            2  
            But Eddie, they are dolts. They have an agenda and facts are the last thing that will interfere with it... right behind intellectual perspicuity. They believe that the right to behave absurdly is constitutionally protected and they intend to exercise their rights.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 1:27 pm ET)
              14
            You do love that word rebukes when MMFA uses it don't you. Funny how you object now.

            And with this issue you continue to show your bigotry, just like you do with your use of the white trash term.

            2 wrongs do not make a right, discrimination against these white firefighters does not correct any injustices of the past, it just creates more injustice. But a bigot would not see that.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by jonwisby (June 29, 2009 1:31 pm ET)
              6  
              The ignorance lies with you and all other (on both sides)who apparently have no idea what the term rebuke means.

              re⋅buke
                /rɪˈbyuk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-byook] Show IPA verb, -buked, -buk⋅ing, noun
              Use rebuke in a Sentence
              –verb (used with object)
              1. to express sharp, stern disapproval of; reprove; reprimand.
              –noun
              2. sharp, stern disapproval; reproof; reprimand.
              Origin:
              1275–1325; ME rebuken (v.) < AF rebuker (OF rebuchier) to beat back, equiv. to re- re- + bucher to beat, strike < Gmc

              Related forms:
              re⋅buk⋅a⋅ble, adjective
              re⋅buk⋅er, noun
              re⋅buk⋅ing⋅ly, adverb

              Synonyms:
              1. censure, upbraid, chide, admonish. See reproach. 2. reproach, remonstration, censure.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by carlileb5935 (June 30, 2009 4:43 am ET)
                1  
                Right. Rebuke means reprimand, a censuring. That's not what happened. It was a reversal.

                Plus... it was only 5-4. Hardly a landslide-- hardly a screaming from the bench for her head.

                These decisions happen all the time. But the right wingers rely upon other people's ignorance and stupidity in order to do their dirty deeds.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 30, 2009 7:57 am ET)
                1  
                They don't knwo what "discrimination" means either.

                Fair - their is not a drop of biggorty in mey post aboove. There is more than the usual dollop of stupidity in yours howerver.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by wzwriter (June 29, 2009 11:53 am ET)
        10 2
        No matter how you slice it, POV is an idiot. Period.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 11:54 am ET)
            14
          How witty...lol

          Your side lost. Get over it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:19 pm ET)
            10 1
            You mean activist judges overturned the will of a city in how they hire their employees...

            Yep those of us that are against activist judges lost...

            Report Abuse
            • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 12:20 pm ET)
              1 16
              Those of you who supported racism lost. Fair play was the victor today!!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Buzzramjet (June 29, 2009 12:30 pm ET)
                9 2
                The only racist I see here is you.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 12:33 pm ET)
                  1 15
                  Only to a left wing radical can I be a racist because I want white FFs to be treated fairly.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:37 pm ET)
                    7 1
                    The city thought the test was unfair...Who are you to tell them they are wrong...???

                    Have you read the test...???
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
                      2 6
                      Have you? And please evaluate from your position as a professional firefighter.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:50 pm ET)
                        7  
                        No...It does not matter if i think it fair or not......The elected officials of the city thought it was UNFAIR...

                        You think it is right that the Supremos have the right to interfere with the judgment of the elected officials of a city...???


                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by adelyn (June 29, 2009 3:15 pm ET)
                          1 5
                          City never said it was fair or not, they were just afraid of a lawsuit.

                          It was NEVER proven that the test was unfair, hence the overturn.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 1:22 pm ET)
                      2 6
                      No, the city was afraid of a lawsuit.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by wzwriter (June 29, 2009 1:09 pm ET)
                    5 1
                    You're idea of "fairly" is that you want the white guy to always win. Are you posting at MMfA while you're waiting for your sheets to come back from the cleaners?
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:12 pm ET)
                    4  
                    No POV, only to real human beings can you be a racist because you want minorities put in their "place". Fair to you is white superiority.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:33 pm ET)
                        7
                      Point to where I ever said anything like that snoopy...oh wait, thats right, you Cant. I told you the SC would rule for the Fire fighters, and I was right. I do love reading your remarks even more when you lose however.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:45 pm ET)
                        6  
                        You mean like where you projected your racism when you claim racism lost today? I'd be happy to post more, but I don't think MMFA would allow me the bandwidth to post all of your racist nonsense.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:47 pm ET)
                            7
                          LOL...you got nothing. I projected...lol...your are so sad.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:48 pm ET)
                            10
                          And racism did lose today.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 2:52 pm ET)
                            4  
                            And racism did lose today.
                            Why? Did you finally come to your senses ala George Wallace?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:54 pm ET)
                                10
                              Straw man Straw Man....lol..so thats what it feels like to yell that all the time. Sorry Barack...ya lost!!
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:57 pm ET)
                                6 1
                                Barack lost? How's that, he had nothing at all to do with this case. Sounds like more racist projecting...
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:02 pm ET)
                                    9
                                  Wow...you are desperate...i see you cant even read the name of the poster I was responding to. You are so bitter, lol, what a great day
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:05 pm ET)
                                    5  
                                    What's to be bitter about? I find great fun watching you dance for joy when activist judges rule the way you want them to. It really brings out the hypocricy in you.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:07 pm ET)
                                        8
                                      So now your saying racism is or should be legal. The four activists lost today. As i said before, Justice won.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:09 pm ET)
                                        4  
                                        No, you just said racism should be legal. And it's five activist judges, not four. You keep projecting from reich to left...
                                        Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 3:11 pm ET)
                                    4  
                                    Seriously, you can't blame someone for figuring that you mean Obama by that. You really should either put it in quotes or use OYGB to be more clear.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:14 pm ET)
                                        8
                                      Fair enough Brabantio, but he is also so quick to jump and call me a racist he did not take 3 seconds to even bother to look.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:20 pm ET)
                                        4  
                                        It didn't take 3 seconds to get you were agreeing with Limbaugh and all the other mouthpieces about their claims that Sotomayor, the city and the black firefighters are the racists. That has been the buzz all day.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:20 pm ET)
                                            5
                                          I see it is impossible for you to simply admit you were wrong.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:26 pm ET)
                                            4  
                                            What am I supposed to admit being wrong about? That you projected racism calling the losers in this case racists?
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
                                                5
                                              You know exactly what. You know i was responding to a poster with barack in his name. You are not man enough to admit you were wrong.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:32 pm ET)
                                                3  
                                                Actually, I can admit that. Sure, I was wrong for thinking you were referring to someone else. I shouldn't have assumed that you were staying true to form and were gloating about this being a loss not only for Sotomayor, but for liberals and Obama in general. I apologize for that.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:36 pm ET)
                                                    6
                                                  I think it is a loss for Stotmayor, but not a big one by any stretch. I am just glad the case that was so unfair on its face was overturned.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
                                                    3  
                                                    I believe we're gonna disagree, because I see this as Sotomayor being played up as some sort of ringleader when in truth she was just one of three justices. In the meantime, I've got an interview in a half hour, so excuse me in advance for stepping out of this conversation.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:51 pm ET)
                                                        6
                                                      You are right...she was one of 3, and 4 SC agreed with her. I just think the case was so unfair on its face it had to be overturned
                                                      Report Abuse
                                          • Author by wzwriter (June 30, 2009 11:41 am ET)
                                            1  
                                            Just as it's impossible for YOU to see that you're an idiot.
                                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 3:14 pm ET)
                          2 10
                          So, POV is being a racist when he claims racism lost today? How do you classify your behavior when you refer to white trash or trailer trash, like you do frequently . Isn't that racist ?

                          Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:20 pm ET)
                              6
                            Thanks Fair, but again they just dont see it that way. Many here dont see how it is even possible to support the FFS and not be a racist. And they will never explain the slurs they use...ever.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 9:45 pm ET)
                                 
                              Thanks Fair, but again they just dont see it that way
                              You are right. We live in the reality-based community.
                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 3:20 pm ET)
                            3  
                            Isn't that racist ?
                            No
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 8:32 pm ET)
                                3
                              Well I guess then you would agree that the use of tenement trash or black trash is just as acceptable as the terms you support? If white trash is not racist neither is black trash.
                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 3:21 pm ET)
                            4  
                            You mean like when I take comments you make and change the object to refer to the right instead?
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (June 29, 2009 3:26 pm ET)
                            4  
                            "Talk about the pot calling the kettle black."


                            No because not all white people are white trash or trailers. A lot of White people live in blue states so it doesn't apply to them.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 8:35 pm ET)
                                3
                              Well then how come I have never heard anyone here refer to black trash? Same situation, just a different race. Or is it only acceptable to be biased against whites ?
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 9:48 pm ET)
                                2  
                                Well then how come I have never heard anyone here refer to black trash?
                                This is simple. Our opponents are largely ignorant Fox News watchers. These folks are predominantly white trash, in spirit if not in reality. I'm sure over at FreeRepublic they have issue with "black trash" except they have other, more colorful words for it.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 10:45 pm ET)
                                    4
                                  So essentially you are admitting that you are a racist and justify it because others are. That is a very mature attitude.

                                  But I am confused, I have read here many times that nobody watches cable news. This is usually in response to Fox's ratings crushing the other networks. Now you are saying that most of your opponents are Fox News watchers. If only a few million watch Fox, what about the other nearly 60 million that did not vote for your guy.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 30, 2009 6:04 pm ET)
                                       
                                    So essentially you are admitting that you are a racist and justify it because others are. That is a very mature attitude.
                                    So you are admitting that your main form of response is a strawman?

                                    Calling someone "white trash" is not racist. There are two words there; 'trash' the noun and 'white' adjective. 'Trash' is the pejorative here, not 'white'. 'Trash' doesn't take on more negative connotation by applying the 'white' modifier.
                                    Report Abuse
                      • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 30, 2009 12:05 pm ET)
                        1  
                        So... because you predcted how Justice Kennedy would rule in a 5-4 decision, that measn you're not a racist? That leap of logic is more stunning than usual for you.
                        Report Abuse
            • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:22 pm ET)
                9
              Oh, right. It was really the will of the city at stake when they've been quoted as saying they threw out the test results because the feared being sued for discrimination. Riiiiiiight.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 12:26 pm ET)
                  11
                The city could have done the right thing. The decided not to. They were cowards, and the SC did the right thing.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:35 pm ET)
                  7  
                  So you do think it is alright for the Supremos to tell states and cites how to conduct themselves...Right...???

                  Or is it only OK when the court is forcing states and cites to do what you want them to do...???
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:43 pm ET)
                      8
                    If they are not conducting themselves constitionally, then it's ok for the SCOTUS to judge that. If they are acting constitutionally, then I do not favor the SCOTUS ruling against them at all.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
                      7 1
                      So you do not believe in judicial activism...???


                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Simpleton (June 29, 2009 6:25 pm ET)
                           
                        Only if it is Roe v Wade.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (June 30, 2009 4:57 pm ET)
                        1  
                        Clearly. The best part of this whole story is having the "activist judges" red herring exposed for what it is. Overruling the city is clearly judicial activism and is clearly supported by the right wing. So, obviously, they are once again big supporters of judicial activism.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by adelyn (June 29, 2009 3:18 pm ET)
                      2
                    The Supreme Court is there to make sure the states and cities and governments are following the constitution so YES, it IS ALRIGHT for them the tell the states and cities when they are in the wrong! That is their job!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 9:49 pm ET)
                      1  
                      IS ALRIGHT for them the tell the states and cities when they are in the wrong! That is their job!
                      Except when they rule against the cons, then the cons cry "States Rights!".
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by mtravali (June 29, 2009 1:06 pm ET)
                  3  
                  These are the very people who say you shouldn't have activist judges, yet all the conservatives are exactly that - activist, white supremacist ,judges. We need Kennedy to go, he's the disgrace amongst them all, he always gives them the edge.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 12:54 pm ET)
            10  
            This is the idocy of the right of full display. For them it's all about WINNING and LOSING. Not reason, not merit, not cause, not effect, not logic, not principle. Just WE WIN, YOU LOSE, NYAH-NYAH-NA-NYAH-NYAH. Nobody WON or LOST here. Two sides made an argument and the SCOTUS ruled in favor of one. What's more: LIBERALS WERE NOT CONTENDING THAT THE WHITE FF'ERS HAD NO CASE!!!

            Our point (always lost on you boneheads) was:

            1) That Sotomayor was not being some kind of racist, or radical ruling the way she did. And a 5-4 descision, plus the other appelant judges that agrees with her would seem to prove this point.

            2) That your use of the word "discrimination" was incorrect. The white ff'ers never proved discrimination. The did not win a discrimination suit. Period. If you think they did then you are ignorant of the law, the case and the SC decision.

            None of us were "rooting" against the whiet ff'ers. They're getting promoted? GOOD. GOOD FOR THEM! CONGRATULATIONS. That was never the issue. The issue was ALWAYS what YOUR LOT was making of this case. And every post I've seen here, from POV, FaiL, etc... show that you STILL DON'T GET IT.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 1:31 pm ET)
                13
              No , you are wrong once again, it was about merit. The firefighters that scored the best should have received promotions. If the others were not as qualified, they should not. That is merit.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 2:09 pm ET)
                7  
                And, as usual, your statement has nothing to do with ANYTHING.

                No one disputes that these guys were good firefighters, or that many, if not all, of them deserved propmotion. But the city felt the test was unfair, based on the racial breakdown of the results. Not wanting to be sued by the black ff'ers they threw the results out. The SCOUTUS merely said that they were worng to do so.

                The merits of the white FF'ers was never in question. The issue was whether or not the city was right in their reasoning to throw out the results. The merit don't enter into it.

                At best the SCOTUS said that the test wasn't racist. And while they didn't actually go that far, you could reasonably draw that conlcusion. They DID NOT rule that the city WAS racist and they CERTAINLY do not rule that the lower court, appellant court or Just. Sotomayor were racists. All they did was give the city legal protection to use the result so of the test. They ruled that city should not have thrown out the test. (This implies that the city would be protected if the black ff'ers sued.) That's it.

                The merit of the white ff'ers is immaterial to the case and the ruling.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:34 pm ET)
                  10
                Fair

                What you are saying is so simple...so correct, they will never get it. And Yes Edwin, I am happy you Lost, and Justice Won.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 2:51 pm ET)
                  3  
                  What you are saying is so simple...so correct, they will never get it. And Yes Edwin, I am happy you Lost, and Justice Won.
                  Just reverse everything you said.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 30, 2009 8:02 am ET)
                  1  
                  "It's like they pride in being ignorant!" ~Barack Obama

                  PoV - go back and take a course in remedial reading comprehension to go along with the course in remedial micro and macro economics that your lot so desperately needs. I've said, several times, that I have no problem with either the FF'ers getting promoted or the decision itself. And since I was involved in teh case anyway, how exactly have I lost? (I'm a white engineer BTW, not a black firefighter.)

                  My point that you people have made this case into something it's not still stand and every word you and fairL write further proves that point. YOU STILL GREATLY EXAGERATED WHAT THIS WAS ALL ABOUT AND WEHAT HAPPENED HERE.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 3:19 pm ET)
                4  
                That would make sense IF you could show this test actually measured merit, as in the ability to do the job in question better. Can you do that or are you just blowing smoke as you usually do?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (June 29, 2009 3:24 pm ET)
                  6  
                  Tag-team wingnuts POV and Fairlib haven't read the test. They have no idea if the promotions would have been based on merit.

                  They're just cheerleaders for the court ruling for whitey, nothing more, nothing less.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 11:06 pm ET)
                  1 3
                  The firefighters who scored the best merited the promotions. The test was expertly prepared with race neutrality in mind, specifically to avoid lawsuits. The fact is that of the applicants the white guys and the latinos were the most qualified and should have been promoted. Had the black guys scored the best and the results thrown out the cries of racism would have been deafening. .http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124035774411441127.html

                  Racism is racism, simple. Affirmative action is a flawed policy, it does not correct injustice, it creates new injustices.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (June 30, 2009 12:00 am ET)
                    4  
                    If the test was so expertly crafted then why was it that when the City was challenged on whether or not it fairly measured the ability to do the job they didnt think they could show it did and invalidated the test? They didnt DO it for racist motives. They did it so they wouldnt be sued under a civil rights law that says such tests MUST be about the ability to do the job. Dont waste my time with Wall St. Journal editorials and I wont waste yours with Z magazine or the Progressive editorials.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by wzwriter (June 29, 2009 1:07 pm ET)
            5  
            You're the loser. Each and every day. Get over THAT.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 2:30 pm ET)
            4  
            Better check the last two election results again then go cry
            Report Abuse
            • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:35 pm ET)
                7
              Solon

              I also love to see how bitter you are after a lose I Told You was coming.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 2:51 pm ET)
                4  
                Hmm...Let's see. The cons have stacked the court for how long now and we're surprised they decided narrowly against the city in this case? Thankfully, Obama will likely get a few more SC justices to appoint before his eight years are up and we can do something about the court mix.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:59 pm ET)
                  8  
                  I think this poster from thinkprogress sums it up nicely.

                  hanshiro the antlion Says:
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                  Greenwald has more analysis on this decision:

                  (1) In light of today's ruling, it's a bit difficult -- actually, impossible -- for a rational person to argue that Sotomayor's Ricci decision places her outside the judicial mainstream when: (a) she was affirming the decision of the federal district court judge; (b) she was joined in her decision by the two other Second Circuit judges who, along with her, comprised a unanimous panel; (c) a majority of Second Circuit judges refused to reverse that panel's ruling; and now: (d) four out of the nine Supreme Court Justices -- including the ones she is to replace -- agree with her.

                  Put another way, 11 out of the 21 federal judges to rule on Ricci ruled as Sotomayor did. It's perfectly reasonable to argue that she ruled erroneously, but it's definitively unreasonable to claim that her Ricci ruling places her on some sort of judicial fringe.

                  (2) The irony of using Ricci against Sotomayor has always been that the reason this case resonates for so many people is due to empathy for the white firefighters. That irony is underscored by today's ruling, as Justice Kennedy devotes multiple paragraphs at the beginning of his opinion to highlighting all of the facts (as opposed to legal arguments) which make people sympathetic to Ricci. Conversely, Justice Ginsburg, writing for the dissenters, noted upfront that the white firefighters "understandably attract this Court's sympathy," but it must be the law -- i.e., long-standing legal precedent and the purpose of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act -- which determines the outcome.


                  Here's a revealing statement:

                  Indeed, few things are rarer than conservatives Justices invalidating policies that conservatives like politically, or upholding policies they despise -- the true test for whether one applies to law independently of political and outcome preferences.

                  From the start, those protesting Sotomayor's decision in Ricci did so by appealing not to law, but to emotion, non-legal precepts of "fairness" and empathy -- at the very same time that those very same people mocked the notion that those considerations should play any role in judicial decision-making.

                  (3) For all the chatter about "judicial activism" and that dreadful Roberts metaphor of "a neutral umpire calling balls and strikes," it is so striking how frequently conservative judges invalidate policies which conservatives dislike as a political matter. Here we have the conservative wing of the Court declaring illegal the employment decisions of local government officials, who used a political approach -- diversity -- which conservatives dislike on policy grounds.

                  And as far as reference to the test:

                  As Justice Ginsberg noted, whites had a virtual monopoly for decades on firefighter positions until Congress extended Title VII to public employment ("firefighting is a profession in which the legacy of racial discrimination casts an especially long shadow"), and city officials in this case determined that the test in question was flawed because, among other things, it did not reward merit.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by anotheramerican (June 29, 2009 4:21 pm ET)
                    2 6
                    James Taranto has an interesting take I have yet to see anywhere else, "As Justice Kennedy explains in the majority ruling, federal civil rights laws prohibit two different types of discrimination: "disparate treatment" and "disparate impact." The plaintiffs in Ricci were plainly the victims of disparate treatment, which is prohibited by the plain language of the 1964 Civil Rights Act:"

                    The question, which was avoided, is whether disparate impact outweighs disparate treatment.

                    The interesting point is that none of the SC agreed with Sotomayor's summary agreement.

                    Ginsburg believes that Sotomayor and the other judges below applied the wrong standard: “The lower courts focused on respondents’ ‘intent’ rather than on whether respondents in fact had good cause to act.” Or so says Ed Whelan at NRO.

                    http://bench.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OTBhOTEzMTZhMmMyNDczNTE5MjA4MTI0Mjk1Zjc5MDA=
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 4:31 pm ET)
                      4  
                      National Review. Another biased source. What a shock. Let me see what the Nation magazine has to say about this.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (June 29, 2009 8:50 pm ET)
                      1  
                      Kennedy has it all wrong and guy from the National Review doesn't look like he read Ginsburg's decision. The "disparate treatment" and "disparate impact" both have to do with minorities under Title VII. Minorities can either argue disparate treatment (overt decrimination) or disparate impact (not discriminitory on it it's face but discriminatory in operation). They're not versus each other and I don't know how the conservatives managed to reverse the meaning like that. Ginsburg believes there was disparate impact and therefore the tests should have been thrown out.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by jonwisby (June 30, 2009 7:39 am ET)
                      1 1
                      do you ever have any "original thoughts"? all of your posts are cut and paste.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 3:08 pm ET)
                5  
                You told me a lose was coming? Please try to maintain a minimum level of coherence. Get that six year old to edit your posts. I am not bitter. This was a complex case. Either way it was decided would be ok for me. YOU are just being silly. Showing everyone how brainwashed and partisan you are. I love to laugh at people like you and I love a good laugh
                Report Abuse
          • Author by hurricaneyankee52983 (June 29, 2009 7:32 pm ET)
            4  
            pov,no YOUR side lost,back in november and since then your heros have become the party of NO.What a bunch of bums.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Simpleton (June 29, 2009 6:24 pm ET)
          1  
          Yes it was.

          In fact, it was historic! Even RusHannity said so. There has no greater rebuke of a SC nominee than a landslide 5-4 margin!
          Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 11:54 am ET)
        7 3
        You're an idiot. They overturned a decison. This happens all the time. This had NOTHING to do with Sotomayor. Unless you can show that they would have come to a different decisioon had someone else been on that COMMITTEE (the decision wasn't her's alone you know!) then you're just being a jackass.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Buzzramjet (June 29, 2009 12:29 pm ET)
        6  
        They didn't rebuke Sotomayor PERIOD.

        The reversed a decision, big effen deal. THAT is what the SCOTUS does, either reverse or let stand.

        And do look at the decision carefully.

        But try to keep your racism in check as well.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:44 pm ET)
            5
          How many racist cards does one population of internet posters have to drop?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 1:01 pm ET)
            6  
            We are making the point that the decision was not about racism...
            You guys are the ones screaming "racist"...!!!

            Geeezzz....some consistency... please!!!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wzwriter (June 29, 2009 1:12 pm ET)
              5  
              Geeezzz....some consistency... please!!!

              Consistency requires a certain degree of brain power - something Winston Smith, Fair Liberal, and POV are sorely lacking.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 2:36 pm ET)
                  6
                Glad the SC saw things OUR way wzloser
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 2:53 pm ET)
                  4  
                  Glad the SC saw things OUR way wzloser
                  OUR being the racists.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 3:10 pm ET)
                      7
                    Racism was denying the white FF who passed the test. Period. You were supporting a racist view, to fit your racist mindset.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 3:15 pm ET)
                      6  
                      That wouldn't be "racism" unless someone was denying them promotions because they believe white people are inferior.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by flynnjo1970 (June 29, 2009 3:29 pm ET)
                        4  
                        One thing i have wondered throughout this case is how many "non-White" firefighters were in positions of authority to make the decisions about the legitimacy of the tests in the first place. Racism is complicated and these pathetic
                        espousals of personal opinion cheapen and further complicate the issues. Just because White people do not get their way in the effort of equity does not necessarily equal racism, especially since it is largely other White people making these decisions. Like Justice Ginsberg stated in the decision:

                        “It took decades of persistent effort, advanced by Title VII litigation, to open firefighting posts to members of racial minorities,” she said. Moreover, she said, contrary to the majority’s finding, there was “substantial evidence of multiple flaws in the tests New Haven used.”

                        So what exactly is racism?
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 29, 2009 3:24 pm ET)
                      3  
                      Racism was denying the white FF who passed the te
                      Not if the test was biased.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 11:14 pm ET)
                          2
                        The test was not biased, it was prepared by an experienced firm specifically with race neutrality in mind. The better candidates in this case just happened to be white and Hispanic.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by kalentros (June 30, 2009 3:13 pm ET)
                             
                          Has anyone here seen an actual copy of this test? If so, please send me a link to where I can find it. Seems like people are making a lot of authoritative statements about something I doubt they've personally seen.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by OnceYouGoBarack (June 30, 2009 6:08 pm ET)
                             
                          The better candidates in this case just happened to be white and Hispanic.
                          You have no idea if that was true.
                          Report Abuse
                • Author by wzwriter (June 29, 2009 3:05 pm ET)
                  5  
                  The only losers around here are you and anyone who is unfortunate to come in contact with you on a personal basis. I feel sorry for your relatives, having a loser like you in the family. I'd feel sorry for your friends, but you probably don't have any.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by foghornleghorn (June 29, 2009 3:21 pm ET)
                    4  
                    POV probably doesn't have any minority friends, that's for sure.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 3:21 pm ET)
                4  
                Consistency requires a certain degree of brain power - something Winston Smith, Fair Liberal, and POV are sorely lacking.

                Why is "Winston Smith" in there?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 3:32 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. As a rule of thumb and poster using a nick from an Orwell novel isnt going to be a wingnut.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by eweston8542983 (June 29, 2009 6:28 pm ET)
                    2  
                    I think the comment was directed at WS versis describing him. It's a tricky call though.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 10:21 pm ET)
                         
                      Not how I read it. It's just like "Huey, Dewey and Louie". There's nothing to suggest that one is being contrasted to another.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 10:26 pm ET)
                         
                      Sorry, I misread that. It's still pretty odd to list the person you're talking to along with people you're criticizing and not be criticizing the person you're talking to. I think he probably just had Winston's name confused with someone else he intended to list.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 7:28 pm ET)
                2  
                ummm.....gee.... Why did you lump me in with the wing nuts...??
                Report Abuse
      • Author by truthseeker77 (June 29, 2009 12:30 pm ET)
        3 2
        Judges are rebuked a majority of the time once their cases are brought to the Supreme Court. Why do you play dumb?
        What happened is the norm.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by 1dogs2 (June 29, 2009 2:15 pm ET)
        5  
        Since the Sotomayor opinion was based on the SC's binding precedents, how can the SC's decision to CHANGE the law be a "rebuke" to Sotomayor? Was she supposed to have anticipated that the SC would change the law in this case and rule based on that anticipation? One can only imagine the howls of the right that she was an "activist" judge had she done so. Anyway you slice, you are incapable of logical thought.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 2:28 pm ET)
        3  
        NO they didnt PERIOD. End of story
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bobbygoode (June 29, 2009 4:01 pm ET)
        3  
        IT WAS REVERSED. Not "rebuked". "Rebuke" means admonishment for egregious decision making - uh, as was the case with Mr. Alito. You might read what you are commenting upon. And it was not just HER decision that was reversed, it was the majority of the appeals court upon which she sits. Further, another 5-4 decision on the Scalia Supreme Court is just another consequence of cynical and highly activist SCOTUS selections by Reagan, Bush,sr and Bush,jr. over the years.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Maezeppa (June 29, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
        2  
        Sorry, it wasn't a rebuke. Sotomayor was part of a panel that unanimously decided Ricci. The SCOTUS split the decision along predictable lines.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by b1rd678351 (June 29, 2009 11:49 am ET)
      5  
      When four Justices agreed with Judge Sotomayor can it really be that much of a rebuke? Were the majority Justices rebuking the minority?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 12:21 pm ET)
          7
        Would you say the same thing if the case went 5-4 the other way? Would you then say she was really not supported? I doubt it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:21 pm ET)
          5  
          If it went 5-4 the other way, we'd instead be responding to a post on MMFA about limbaugh calling the entire supreme court a bunch of racists for upholding what he thinks is racism.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 2:37 pm ET)
          4  
          Again, this is lunacy.

          If Just. Kennedy (the tie-breaker in EVERY SINGLE 5-4 decison on the Roberts court) ruled the other way, then they would be supporting the decison of the lower and appellant courts and the position of the city of New Haven. It would STILL have nothing to do with Sotomayor personally. That's patently absurd! It's you idiots that think this is all about HER. You guys started all of that lunatic idiocy.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Brabantio (June 29, 2009 2:59 pm ET)
            3  
            It has even less to do with Sotomayor when you consider that even if she personally had ruled the other way on this case, it still would be reversed now. The other two judges would have made the decision without her.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 2:38 pm ET)
          6  
          I wouldnt ever call an SC decision a rebuke. The law was in dispute. They made a decision. Either way this decision came out would be fine with me. The city wanted to protect itself from a lawsuit a civil rights law made possible since they felt they couldnt show there was any connection between the test and the ability to do the job. The firefighters took the test under the impression passing it would mean promotion. The city needs to change the test so it measures ability to do the job and I am sure they will. It was a close disagreement on a court with four hard core conservatives. It is now the law. Sotomayor has nothing to be ashamed of and you guys throwing hissy fits pretending this is some major insult to her is just silly.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Simpleton (June 29, 2009 6:26 pm ET)
             
          So you support Roe v Wade?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:23 pm ET)
        4  
        The opinion released about an hour ago is 93 pages....

        How any one can claim "rebuke" before even reading it is beyond me...
        But it is sadly typical behavior for America's inside the beltway MSM...
        Report Abuse
        • Author by fairliberal (June 29, 2009 1:35 pm ET)
            9
          Well you have a point there, the same point that could (and should ) have been applied to the stimulus bill and this environmental bill that was just passed, largely by dems who did not even read the bills they were voting on.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (June 29, 2009 2:16 pm ET)
            5  
            Oh, cry us a river. The only ones who didn't bother reading so much as a page of those bills were reichpublicans who were too busy crying to the press about how unfair it was that they weren't engineering all the solutions to bush's mess. Next time we'll issue the bill in the form of a pop up book, that'll get reichpublicans attention...
            Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 29, 2009 2:40 pm ET)
            5  
            Do you EVER have anything relevant to say about the TOPIC BEING DISCUSSED?! All you evey say is, "Quick! Look over THERE!"

            If you can't answer a post without misdirection, then just SHUT THE F^CK UP!
            Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 2:41 pm ET)
            3  
            Or the Patriot Act
            Report Abuse
            • Author by foghornleghorn (June 29, 2009 3:27 pm ET)
              4  
              FL obviously doesn't realize that very few bills have EVER been read by ANY member of congress in their entirety. Please FL, pay attention to what really happens in the real world.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by SMTDL (June 29, 2009 12:21 pm ET)
      6  
      Another right wing distortion exaggeration passed on as if it's a fact.They are only over ruling a decision from a panel of 3 judges.If it was so straigtforward it would never have gotten to the SCOTUS.It was another close decision by this divided court so it says more about the ideological composition of the court itself than about justice or fairness!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:23 pm ET)
        1 6
        The SCOTUS is not the "justice & fairness" court. It's the "interpreting the US Constitution and how it applies" court. Get over it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:31 pm ET)
          6  
          Sure... that is what all the wing nuts say when the decisions go their way...

          But when a court decides something you don't like it is "activism" and Judges "making law"...
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:45 pm ET)
              6
            That's not what I say. Go dunk your head in a used toilet.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:57 pm ET)
              5  
              Good to know...
              But you know that the arguments I have been making about judicial activism has been THE main arguments the right has been making about the illegitimacy of the decisions and philosophy of left leaning judges.....Right...???

              So you agree that all of the activist judges rap it just a bunch of hot air rabble rousing....???
              Report Abuse
              • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 1:17 pm ET)
                  2
                Yes. The argument itself isn't necessarily invalid (about activism), but both sides use it only to further their own goals, for sure. We're in a greement.
                Report Abuse
        • Author by SMTDL (June 29, 2009 2:19 pm ET)
          3  
          And the application should be just and fair while also being constitutional right? If not I guess blind justice is not what I thought it was!!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 2:58 pm ET)
              2
            It should be...to the extent that the letter and spirit of the Constitution is being upheld.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by spooky3 (June 29, 2009 2:58 pm ET)
          2  
          The case concerned interpretation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the cases re: it, decided previously. Nice that you don't understand the difference between it and the Constitution.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 3:00 pm ET)
              1
            All government and laws created act under the umbrella of the Constitution. The SCOTUS is meant to judge whether the letter and spirit of the Constitution is being upheld, whether there's a direct constitutional question or one of subtext.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by pointofview (June 29, 2009 12:24 pm ET)
          7
        Again, I doubt that would have been your view had it gone 5-4 the other way.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 12:43 pm ET)
          4  
          If it had gone 5-4 the other way...I would not have said the decision had anything to do with race...I would not have said it was a victory for Soto...I would have said it was a victory for Judaical restraint...
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:46 pm ET)
              11
            Is that like Islamo-restraint? Or Christo-restraint?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 1:04 pm ET)
              3  
              ????

              Really...This is all ya got...??/
              Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 3:39 pm ET)
              2  
              Why would they be different or is that just knee jerk stupidity and bigotry?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 2:43 pm ET)
          2  
          Yeah, break out your amazing mind reading powers AGAIN and tell someone else what they think.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (June 30, 2009 12:08 pm ET)
          1  
          Not only would my opinion [that this has been blown WAY out of proportion, after being grossly distorted, by the con media] not change were the decision reversed, my opinion that the City, FF'ers, Lower Court, Appellant Court and even the Supreme Court ALL acted reasonably would not change if the races were reversed. Somehow I don't think you can make the same statement.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (June 29, 2009 12:24 pm ET)
      3  
      This is probably OT but I think referring to the WashTimes as "mainstream" or popular in any format is offbase.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by winston smith 2 (June 29, 2009 1:15 pm ET)
      7  
      One Big loser in this case is the wing nut's claim to be against Judaical Activism...

      It is clear that to a wing nut an activist judge is a judge that rules against what a wing nut likes....

      Judaical Activism ... suddenly....Has nothing to do with states or local rights...

      For now any way......Freaking right wing hypocrites....

      According to the Orwell novel 1984, doublethink is:
      The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them....To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.[1] ”
      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (June 29, 2009 3:14 pm ET)
        4  
        The sad part is Orwell wasnt just a genius. He was a PROPHET
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Lynn Dee (June 29, 2009 1:23 pm ET)
      3  
      The decision is actually even narrower than 5-4 might be suggest (if that's possible!)

      I gather from Ginsburg's fn.10 that the majority did not actually care about whether New Haven rejected the test as flawed and decides never to use it again, or what test was applied in affirming New Haven's rejection of the test. (If they cared about that, they would -- or should -- have remanded to the Court of Appeal with instructions to use the correct test -- good cause rather than New Haven's intent.) The majority is simply saying, at least in this instance, that if you administered the test, you're stuck with the results of that particular administration.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by jonwisby (June 29, 2009 4:36 pm ET)
        1 1
        Nice cut and paste. I just read this elsewhere.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Lynn Dee (June 29, 2009 6:02 pm ET)
          1  
          Then you read it from me. Cuz it ain't a cut and paste from anyone else.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by MSheridan (June 29, 2009 1:37 pm ET)
      3  
      It should be noted that the original "Sotomayor" decision, the one that has been overturned, was unanimous on the part of the three judges on the Court of Appeals panel and did NOT state that the city was right to toss the test--it said nothing whatsoever on that point, probably because that was never the question before the court. It ruled that it was legal for the city to do so, a different point entirely. Many distasteful acts are legal, and contrariwise many legal acts are repugnant. The Supreme Court has now (narrowly) decided differently than the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. This will indeed have huge implications for law relating to workforce discrimination, as it vitiates much of the force of the 1971 disparate impact language added to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but no one should see this as a personal rebuke of Sotomayor, who actually has a statistically very low rate of Supreme Court reversals compared to other judges. The practice of making legal decisions into partisan fodder is probably unavoidable, but let us at least get the facts straight.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by rwmacdonald2091 (June 29, 2009 2:21 pm ET)
      3  
      Don't you just hate those activist judges when they overturn the will of your elected officials?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jorgemnr (June 29, 2009 2:25 pm ET)
      3  
      IMO the reversal 5 to 4 is not a big deal. It just reflects the composition of the Court.
      If it was 9 to 0 it, it would be a problem.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by MSheridan (June 29, 2009 5:19 pm ET)
           
        I'm not completely with you on this. I think you are correct in that the decision reflects the composition of the Court, but whether you agree or disagree with this specific decision, it will have major effects on many future decisions in the nation's lower courts and thus is hardly unimportant. Lynn Dee, above, makes a point toward a case that this is not a legal thunderclap, but I believe it will reverberate strongly for all that.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by newzhound (June 29, 2009 6:16 pm ET)
      4  
      The Supreme Court only hears difficult cases. And, generally, when they believe there is a decent chance the lower court's decision will be overturned.

      Overwise, why bother with it? The Supreme Court is not in the business of simply affirming every lower court's decision. They do that, of course, by refusing to hear most of the cases brought for their consideration.

      So, for the first right wing myth, it is no surprise that many Supreme Court decisions overturn the lower court's ruling. That's the point of the exercise, isn't it?

      Secondly, for the most part the Supreme Court is not bound by the precendent's established in the lower court when it comes to Constitutional issues. They look to the Constitution for that guidence. Of course, previous cases do matter.

      But it is not the role of the lower courts to overturn laws (Such as Title VII) based on the Constitution. The lower courts are to follow precedent - and that is what Judge Sotomayor's decision did.

      Clearly the city of New Haven was going to be sued either way. They took the only logical course (based on Title VII) and threw out the test based on disparate impact. That's following the law, and the lower court agreed with that. NOBODY GOT PROMOTED!

      No favortism, no quotas, no racism (reverse or otherwise, if there is, indeed, such a thing as "reverse racism" - I don't believe it). The test got tossed.

      What now? The City of New Haven has - what? - one African American fire captain out of 20-odd? Does that reflect the population of firefighters in the Department? Just like does the number of Black former player GM's and coaches in the NFL reflect the percentage of Black players?


      Report Abuse
      • Author by shaggles (June 29, 2009 6:51 pm ET)
        4  
        'But it is not the role of the lower courts to overturn laws (Such as Title VII) based on the Constitution. The lower courts are to follow precedent - and that is what Judge Sotomayor's decision did.'

        That's exactly right. Tends to get lost in all the babble.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by newzhound (June 30, 2009 9:21 am ET)
          1  
          shaggles: Thank you! I over-stated the Constitution bit. The Supreme Court seeks to rule without returning to the Constitution if it can.

          The main point remains: The Supreme Court doesn't take for its review easy cases.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by The_Cat (June 30, 2009 3:29 pm ET)
      1  
      First off, a 5-4 decision is hardly a rebuke.

      Secondly, the words 'racist' and 'racism' have appeared with a not-surprising frequency in the post-riposte give and take in response to this article, so I'd like to point something out.

      Racism is about deciding based on the color of skin. IF all these years the fire department had been choosing white firefighters for promotion because of the color of their skin, that's racism. Just because it has an apparently positive effect for the white firefighters doesn't change the fact that they were benefiting from racist policies. Obviously, this also means all the other firefighters who could have done the job equally well lost out.

      If the test tends to select for white firefighters, then the test is also racist, in application if not intent.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by hm1342 (June 30, 2009 6:29 pm ET)
      1  
      SUMMARY: In covering the Ricci case, reversing Judge Sonia Sotomayor's decision, media should not promote the myth that the reversal represents a "historic rebuke" or that Sotomayor's Supreme Court reversal rate is "high."

      Those in the media who wish to frame the debate this way are not doing themselves any favors. NiceguyEddie had it right when he said, "It was reversed. This happens every day."

      The case was difficult and New Haven saw themselves in a "no-win" scenario. They could accept the test results and get a lawsuit from blacks who weren't hired or throw out the results and end up with the current case. I have not read the test - if anyone else has please give a link. On the surface I cannot see how a firefighter exam could be racially biased but you never know. The below link discusses the case and core issues:

      http://oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2008/2008_08_328
      Report Abuse