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NBC's Robach ignores evidence that minimum wage increase will stimulate economy

July 27, 2009 11:37 am ET

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SUMMARY: Reporting on the minimum wage increase, NBC's Amy Robach stated, "Some small business owners criticized the timing of the increase, saying it's a burden in a weak economy." But Robach ignored evidence that the increase will stimulate the economy.

106 Comments

During the July 24 edition of NBC's Nightly News, national correspondent Amy Robach noted that "[t]he federal minimum wage went up today," and stated, "Some small business owners criticized the timing of the increase, saying it's a burden in a weak economy." But Robach ignored evidence that the increase will stimulate the economy. In fact, the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) estimates that a minimum wage increase will add $5.5 billion in consumer spending over the next 12 months.

In addition, the business organization, Business for a Fair Minimum Wage, has stated, "We expect an increased minimum wage to provide a boost to local economies. Businesses and communities will benefit as low-wage workers spend their much-needed pay raises at businesses in the neighborhoods where they live and work."

In contrast to Robach's report, a July 24 Washington Post article reported EPI's stimulus estimates:

The law, which affects about 4.5 million workers among a labor force of 129 million, has prompted a debate over whether the mandate to boost wages will hurt or help the economy. Some labor analysts say it could put more financial strain on small businesses, forcing some to cut jobs. "The timing of this is not great in the middle of a recession," said John A. Challenger, chief executive of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, a Chicago-based outplacement firm. "Is it better to create more jobs at the lower rate or fewer jobs at the higher rate?"

Others, though, say the raise is badly needed to help low-wage earners, the majority of whom are adults, keep up with rising food, housing and fuel costs. They regard it as a stimulus that could help reduce the growing savings rate and increase consumer spending, which represents two-thirds of the gross domestic product.

The increase "could not have come at a better time," said Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the Economic Policy Institute. But even with it, she said, minimum-wage workers will be paid only $14,500 a year, well below the federal poverty line of $17,346 for a family consisting of an adult and two children.

"This will put $5.5 billion of spending into the economy," she added. "That's not going to solve our problems," but it is "a shot in the arm."

Likewise, during the July 24 edition of CNN Newsroom, host Kyra Phillips reported that "some economists think that struggling businesses might have to cut jobs to keep up, but others think that workers will spend the extra dollars stimulating the economy."

From the July 24 edition of NBC's Nightly News with Brian Williams:

ROBACH: The federal minimum wage went up today, the final step in a three-phase increase that started in 2007. It's a 70-cent-per-hour jump from 6.55 an hour to 7.25. Some small business owners criticized the timing of the increase, saying it's a burden in a weak economy.

From the 1 p.m. ET hour of the July 24 edition of CNN Newsroom:

PHILLIPS: Will more money in people's paychecks translate into fewer jobs? It's an age-old argument, and it's being revived today as the federal minimum wage goes up to 7.25 an hour -- or, an hour, rather, from 6.55. That means that around 4.5 million workers will see bigger paychecks. And some economists think that struggling businesses might have to cut jobs to keep up, but others think that workers will spend the extra dollars stimulating the economy.

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    • Author by Bad News (July 27, 2009 11:46 am ET)
        5
      Contessa Brewer of MSNBC, Dylan Ratigan is treating you like crap.
      If you plan to just stand there and take it (Smarty Pants), why don't you just sit on his lap.
      This situation can not be taken care of in a closed office meeting.
      If you're not willing to stand up for yourself maybe you deserve the beating.

      Speak truth to power.


      Mr. News
      Report Abuse
      • Author by congero6189599 (July 27, 2009 11:58 am ET)
        1  
        Huh?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (July 27, 2009 12:12 pm ET)
          3  
          His "poems" are nothing but drivel,
          His hardball is really just Wiffle.
          His doggerel wears
          Like the Bad News he Bears
          He's just -ous at the tail end of frivil.

          Mr. Easy
          Report Abuse
          • Author by JoeSixpack (July 27, 2009 12:40 pm ET)
               
            Not bad - at least yours actually has meter! I'm primarily a lurker around here, and I learned very quickly that News' "poems" are never even worth the 5 seconds it takes to read them.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (July 27, 2009 12:03 pm ET)
      5  
      Raising the minimum wage was long-overdue and is a much, much, much better idea for economic stimulation and decreasing the wage gap than taxing and redistribution.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 12:10 pm ET)
      2 9
      So MMfA uses two left wing think tanks as "evidence"? You'll need to do better than that to convince me.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (July 27, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
        8 2
        They wouldn't convince you if they had stone tablets that came down from Mt Sinai.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NewBee (July 28, 2009 5:18 am ET)
             
          They wouldn't convince you if they had stone tablets that came down from Mt Sinai.
          What if Ayn Rand crawled out of her grave and told him?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 27, 2009 12:40 pm ET)
        5 1
        Nobody need to convince you, dude.

        But if you understood the theory and mechanics of "Supply-side Economics" (that's your lot's preffered economic theory, BTW) you'd understand that only two things will ever happen when this is applied over time:

        1) Wages will not keep up with inflation and the cost of living.
        2) Goods will become crappier and crappier as time goes on.

        (OK - point 2 is a bit of a joke, but the realization came to me over the weekend, when my wife bought her third chinese-made hair-dryer in just over a year.)

        OTOH... Kenseyan Economics, which is more aligned with DEMAND-side economics, will show you how *gasp* when people have more money, they buy more stuff! (Imagine that!) And when they buy more stuff, rich people (business owners and shareholders) make more profit! So in the end, the complanies and rich folk that onw them make just as much money (less on margin, but more on volume) and everyone else gets the benefit of a better, more stable lifestyle.

        You want more than a "left wing think tank" as evindence? TAKE AN ECONOMICS COURSE.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 12:58 pm ET)
          1 9
          I would invite you to take an econ course. Ever heard of the law of supply and demand? Just like goods and services, the demand for labor is not fixed, it all depends on the price. Lower prices leads to more demand, the equilibrium price. When government interferes to either set caps or floors we know what happens. If you raise the min wage too high, there is a surplus of workers, but if you set it too low there is a shortage.

          Minimum wage laws sets the min wage, they don't guarantee anyone a job.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 27, 2009 1:11 pm ET)
            6  
            Yes, I do know all about supply and demand. You are arguming Micro, while I'ma rguing Macro, but fair enough, I'm game. Let me recycle me argument from the other day. Here it goes:

            --------------------from 7/24 post--------------

            In both micro and macro econ they show you why the minimun wage "hurts," at least in theory.

            1) By increasing the wage, employers hire fewer workers due to the increased cost.
            2) By increasing the wage, more people decide to go back to work, due to the increased incentive.

            So it's a double whammy for unemployemnt.

            But not really. First off, point (2)... isn't that a GOOD thing? Don't we WANT people to go to work? Isn't that the WHOLE IDEA?! Second, to point (1), how many people earn minimum wage anyway? I've worked a lot of really $#!tty jobs over the years - ice cream scooper, telemarketer, data entry, I mowed lawns, and I even had a manual labor job in a condom warehouse once (no joke!) NONE of the jobs made min wage. The least of them paid ~$8.00/hour, way back when the min wage was $4.25/hr. (Shown how old I am!) (And, esp considering that the income is TAX FREE, I even made well over min wage BABYSITTING!) And my friends who waited tables informed me many times that that they made WAY LESS than min wage, as tip-makers are basically exempt from the min wage law! So does this really significanlty impact any huge swath of society? I don't believe it does. Even illegal imigrant labor is often paid more than the min wage.

            If someone here has some stats, I'd love to see them. And I may be wrong, but I think we all know that the doom-n-gloom regarding min wage increases is vastly overblown, mostly by very rich men who think the biggest problem facing this country is that very rich men don't have enough money
            ------------------------------------

            So... let me have it. Hammer me on this. Because I don't buy all the griping.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 1:22 pm ET)
              1 11
              I don't believe the government has any business setting wages or prices. The market needs to do this, the government does not need to set some artificial minimum wage for reasons I have already stated. Also, in tough economic times when businesses are struggling to stay afloat, artificially raising wages hurt struggling companies which leads to more layoffs. It's a bad idea.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 27, 2009 1:37 pm ET)
                7 1
                Those very businesses are struggling to stay afloat because they can't SELL anything, becuase nobody's BUYING anything, becuase no one can AFFORD anything. And as I said above, I know of no business that's so dependant on min-wage labor that an increase would trigger mass-layoffs. (You get more than min-wage even working at McD's these days!) I doubt a 11% increase in min wage would translate to a more than 0.1% uncrease in total compensation costs at any large company; and in a small family shop, how many employees would be affected? One or Two? Lay one off, and you're paying OT to the other one. So again... I ain't buying.

                The problem with allowing "the market" to set labor prices is that it costs more ot live in this country than it does in china. The laborer has no control over that. So w/o mi wage laws, you'd have guys making $1 an hour (not really - they just wouldn't work) and economic conditions would be even worse. It's still just Micro vs. Macro; Supply-side vs. Demmand-side; Ownership vs. Labor; SHORT-TERM, NARROW THINKING vs. LONG-TERM, BIG-PICTURE THINKING.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 1:51 pm ET)
                2 9
                There are a couple of hardcore realities that are being ignored here.

                1. Most "minimum" wages jobs in fact pay more because they cannot hire the workers for that wage. That held true 15 years ago when I was working my way through college and fast food places were paying 9.00 an hour even then.

                2. If all you bring to the employer are minimum wage skills, that is all you will be paid. If employers are forced to pay more, then prices will go up. This notion that increasing wages will help the economy is a joke if you dont consider that prices will go up as well.

                3. As with all minimum wage increases in the past, the sky will not fall like conservatives claim, but the lives of the poor will not get better as the libs claim. When wages go up, prices go up. It always works that way.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 2:00 pm ET)
                  2 10
                  Good points. If the government is going to set wages, then set prices too. Then set profit margins. Why stop at wages? I agree, raising the minimum wage is not some catastrophic economic event, but the negative affects on employment and prices is always ignored by its proponents. And I repeat, the government has no business in this area.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 2:13 pm ET)
                    8 3
                    Tommy again wishing for the days of working for pennies and a loaf of bread. Why stop there? Why not abolish OSHA and child labor laws. What's good for the corporation is good for the people.

                    Keep bowing to your corporate masters. They've done so well so far.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Murlz (July 28, 2009 3:45 am ET)
                        1
                      I have an idea, why don't we pay every worker a minimum of $25/hr. That would include waiters, ditch diggers, customer services reps, bank tellers, gas station attendants, lawn mowers, delivery drivers, receptionists, etc. Does that work for you? They should be able to survive of $25/hr, right?

                      Think of all the money we would have in circulation -- nevermind the fact it wouldn't be worth s**t as goods and services would be priced accordingly, but hey, its a good number.

                      Abolish OSHA and child labor laws? What size panties do you wear when nobody is watching Mr. Drama Queen?

                      Corporate masters? You do realize that a vast majority of Americans are employed by small, privately held businesses. This is what I find fascinating -- libtards like to talk about conservatives as big business people and in bed with corporate interests. Here are some numbers you may not be aware of, presumeably because you are blinded by your ideology. These are from the last election cycle:

                      Goldman Sachs in 2008: DFL $4,392,720 (75%) - GOP $1,439,720 (25%). AIG in 2008, DFL $586,426 (69%) - GOP 267,579 (31%). JPMorgan Chase in 2008: DFL $2,699,886 (61%) - GOP $1,723,380 (39%). Citigroup in 2008: DFL $2,652,839 (61%) - GOP $1,716,259 (39%). Morgan Stanley in 2008: DFL $2,106,874 (58%) - GOP 1,518,568 (42%).

                      http://www.opensecrets.org/

                      Interesting, eh? Surprise, surprise -- Wall Street is in bed with the Dems. Hmmm. Who is the one bowing to the corporate masters?

                      Murlz
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by NewBee (July 28, 2009 5:22 am ET)
                           
                        Wall Street is in bed with the Dems.
                        I always wondered who all those bald guys in suits were every morning. They do really know how to spoon though.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 7:39 pm ET)
                           
                        Uh, I guess you missed my point, murlz.

                        Paying everyone $25/hr. is akin to socialism. Is that what you're advocating, or are you just trying to be cute?

                        And about the donation - the Democrats got more donations because everyone knew they were going to win.

                        Does that help?
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by anotheramerican (July 27, 2009 9:18 pm ET)
                      3
                    I wonder why this organization called EPI is used? Where are the CBO numbers?
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 28, 2009 11:02 am ET)
                    3  
                    How on earth does the government have no place in labor law? As for the rest of your questions, the answer is simple. Because we're trying to insure a decent wage, NOT employ ramapant communsism. There's no slippery slope here. It's min-wage, not the red tide.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by mikehuck1976 (July 29, 2009 2:39 pm ET)
                       
                    Of course you know they are not setting wages, right? They are only setting a minimum for wages. This argument was had a couple generations ago. It's over. Minimum wage is a done deal and it has been found time and again to be good for the economy rather than the apocalypse - which is exactly what was argued the first time this argument was had 2 generations ago.
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 28, 2009 11:00 am ET)
                     
                  I'm having trouble squaring your point (1) with your point (2).

                  You're basically right with (3), but it's not just about "improving the lives of poor people." With no min-wage, many wages would be a lot lower, and the prices of goods would not necessarily be any cheaper. (Sellers will still charge as much as the market will bear, and not that muchh of the market makes min wage!) It's about limiting the employers ability to exploit the least among us. And come on - how many people are really making less that $7.25 anyway?
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by bilbo_dies (July 27, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
                5 1
                right ON
                I don't believe the government has any business setting wages or prices. The market needs to do this,

                You do realize, of course, that the reason that government instituted minimum wage legislation was because the market was not adjusting wages. Yes, in certain circumstances, if Target is paying $10 and hour and is hiring and McDonalds can't get workers, because they only pay $4 an hour. Market forces are going to insist on McDonalds paying more if they want to compete against Target in the labor market. Unfortunately not all markets are labor poor. In these markets it has been shown that, if allowed, business will pay a less than living wage. Yes, that is not following the capitalist model but; capitalism doesn't have a heart. That means it is up to us (we do make up the government) to decide when and where to circumvent market forces.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 2:35 pm ET)
                  2 8
                  Bilbo

                  I have no argument with anything you are saying. Just dont kid your self into thinking that businesses will not raise the prices they are charging for basic services if people are pair more wages.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 2:38 pm ET)
                    5 1
                    Wow. Now your Big Mac costs $2.39 instead of $2.29. Give me a break.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 2:44 pm ET)
                      2 8
                      Amazing.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 2:45 pm ET)
                      1 8
                      The only thing that is amazing is your ignorance.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (July 27, 2009 2:58 pm ET)
                      1 2
                      Not enough to keep fat people from continuing to destroy their bodies and then whine about the cost of an extra seat on an airplane.
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by bilbo_dies (July 27, 2009 4:34 pm ET)
                    2 1
                    And that drives the argument: "just how much profit is enough profit." The model I keep hearing (media, etc) seems to indicate that a company should always generate X% profit and the profit should grow by Y% every year. Of course, that gives lie to the fact that, even with economies of scale, your cost can only be reduced so much, and there is a max amount that the consumer will give for any given product. Every one likes to pick on how much the employees get paid, and how that impact final product price. Truth is, employee pay (with perks) usually makes up only 1.5% of a products cost. The rest is tied up in overhead and,,, wait for it,,, profit.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 5:14 pm ET)
                      2 6
                      Yes, but payroll is the most manageable and controllable expense in any company. It is not a fixed cost like overhead is. So when companies look to cut costs, they look to payroll first. Either slash wages or lay people off. It is the way businesses are run like it or not.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 5:44 pm ET)
                        2 5
                        And regardless of what you think is right Bilbo, companies will protect their profits. That is the only reason they are in business.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 5:49 pm ET)
                          2 6
                          Yep, and that is a good thing. For if a company is making money, is profitable, then smart businesspeople will seize the opportunity and capitalize on that market, and either expand to make more money and profits. Or new businesses will be formed. This creates revenue for the government in taxes, and jobs for people. I don't understand why some liberals have such disdain for this.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 6:02 pm ET)
                            2 5
                            Because in their view, a job, any job, at any employer should guarantee you cradle to grave protection. What your actual worth to the company, or what skills you actually have are never considered.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 6:10 pm ET)
                              3 1
                              I guess you're lucky to never worked a minimum wage job. Or had a greedy employer. Good for you POV, you're one of the lucky ones!!! Congratulations!!!!!
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 6:14 pm ET)
                                  3
                                I had more than my fair share of minimum wage jobs through high school and college.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 6:26 pm ET)
                                  5  
                                  Then would you have appreciated making an extra buck an hour?

                                  Tell the truth.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by right ON (July 27, 2009 6:33 pm ET)
                                    1 4
                                    I also had a few minimum wage jobs when I was younger, and I would have loved an extra buck or two an hour, you bet. All I thought about was my own needs and my own wants back then. I wasn't concerned about my employer's responsibilities, he had plenty of money. That is what I thought. I didn't even think that if got that extra buck an hour my employer might just make it up by raising his prices, maybe even so much that he lost business to his competitor. And then when sales tanked, I might have been laid off.

                                    Now I think I am glad I didn't get that extra buck an hour. I was naive then and had no clue how businesses worked. I am not anymore.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 6:40 pm ET)
                                      5 1
                                      <Jaw drops>

                                      You've got it backwards. You had a clue back then and are naive now.

                                      Your love of employers/corporations is astounding.

                                      Have you ever seen/read A Christmas Carol? Are you a fan of Ebenezer Scrooge?
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by NewBee (July 28, 2009 5:24 am ET)
                                        2  
                                        You had a clue back then and are naive now.
                                        Maybe they should make a movie. May I suggest a title? How about "The Curious Case of Tommy right ON".
                                        Report Abuse
                                    • Author by eweston8542983 (July 27, 2009 6:40 pm ET)
                                      3 1
                                      Wealth appologist is a growing field.
                                      Report Abuse
                                  • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 7:31 pm ET)
                                    1 5
                                    Of course...do you know anyone who does not want to make more? My entire point has not been to keep anyone poor, or not to raise the wage. My point is that it is foolish to think raising the minimum wage will stimulate the economy, and it is foolish to think that prices will not go up if wages go up.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 7:36 pm ET)
                                      4 1
                                      And my point, which you mocked, is that now you have to pay a little more for your Big Mac or your caffe latte.

                                      Oh the horror!!!!
                                      Report Abuse
                                        • Author by mary59 (July 27, 2009 8:07 pm ET)
                                          3 1
                                          You do realize that there used to be a free market at the beginning of the industrial age? It led to the abuses that were laid out by Charles Dickens in England and Upton Sinclair.

                                          When you don't get, is that in any so-called "free Market" some greedy b*stards will manage to get monopolies, depress wages and drive people into poverty while enriching themselves. It's the unenlightened nature of humanity and it's happened consistently throughout time. The powerful will seize more power and rig the game. Your ideas are not going to happen, period, no matter how much deregulation you do.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 8:18 pm ET)
                                            1 4
                                            What exactly are "my ideas"? I have only made two main points.

                                            1. Raising the minimum wage will not stimulate the economy.

                                            2. If the wage goes up, prices will as well.

                                            So what exactly are my ideas that will not work?
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by mary59 (July 27, 2009 8:26 pm ET)
                                              1 1
                                              I assume that you believe in the "free market" since that is the basis of your objection to the government determining a minimum wage.
                                              For an intelligent article regarding wages and prices, read Thom Hartmann's The Great Tax Con Job..
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by anotheramerican (July 27, 2009 9:43 pm ET)
                                                1 3
                                                Mary,

                                                I followed your link in an effort to follow the money and I see Hartmann is using Daily Kos to say Moon anted up 2 billion to the Washington Post.

                                                Hartmann ought to do some digging. The Daily Kos is using a "buzz flash.com" website interview with some writer named John Gorenfeld who tossed out that estimate.

                                                Using questionable statistics and interpolating recession era losses in the other newspapers but not disclosing it, Hartmann is at best, ignorant and at worst, deliberately misleading.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by mary59 (July 28, 2009 12:26 am ET)
                                                  1 1
                                                  Aa, I see that Hartmann's article sailed right over your head, since you saw fit to veer off into a side track. Yes, all those right-wing rags lose money and that's not in question. I'm not sure what you're talking about in regard to Moon and the Wa. Post...maybe you mean the Washington Times.

                                                  Anyway, the topic is wages and taxes, in case you forgot. The historical data is on the side of doing the right thing by the American worker.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                • Author by NewBee (July 28, 2009 5:28 am ET)
                                                  1  
                                                  Hartmann is at best, ignorant
                                                  If Hartmann is ignorant, you have the brain power of a paramecium in comparison.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                            • Author by foghornleghorn (July 27, 2009 8:27 pm ET)
                                              4 1
                                              1) Raising the minimum wage was not instituted to stimulate the economy. It was done for common decency. But then again, putting more money in the hands of people who will SPEND it does seem to be a logical way to get money moving in the economy.

                                              2) Sounds like a false analogy to me. Can you show evidence where past raises in the mimimum wage have increased prices or are you just pulling this out of your cloudy memories of econ 101?

                                              Thanks for calling me an idiot.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by pointofview (July 27, 2009 8:37 pm ET)
                                                1 3
                                                Read the title of this thread...........

                                                "NBC's Robach ignores evidence that minimum wage increase will stimulate economy"
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by mary59 (July 28, 2009 12:29 am ET)
                                                  2 2
                                                  So where's your evidence, pointy?
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 1:46 am ET)
                                                      5
                                                    You have truly lost your mind. As I noted, right above your comment, in the title of this thread, MMFA suggests the the increase will stimulate the economy. NO raise in the minimum wage EVER has before.

                                                    If you are so sure I am wrong mary, then please provide the links that show how past increases in the wage have stimulated the economy. It should be easy to do right? The info should be everywhere if you are correct. But the funny thing is, everyone posting on this thread makes accusations, but not a single link showing how past increases have made a difference.

                                                    I wonder why that is???
                                                    Report Abuse
                                            • Author by NewBee (July 28, 2009 5:26 am ET)
                                              1  
                                              What exactly are "my ideas"?
                                              We've been wondering that for years.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 9:59 am ET)
                                                  2
                                                So in other words newbee...ya go nothing
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by harley (July 28, 2009 10:21 am ET)
                                                  2  
                                                  ya go nothing

                                                  Ewe speaked Engrish sew goode
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                • Author by anotheramerican (July 28, 2009 10:31 am ET)
                                                    2
                                                  pov,

                                                  As usual the leftists here descend into their tired, but predictable response of name calling and ridicule when confronted with a challenge such as yours.

                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 12:24 pm ET)
                                                    3  
                                                    The challenge is for you see reality! Are you really denying the creation of the middle class and it's growth throughout the 50's and 60's wasn't the result of the manufacturing jobs that were here and created after WWII. Well paying unionized jobs with health coverage that lead to one of the greatest periods of capitalist expansion and growth. Are you seriously denying the effect of wages these unionized workers in the steel,rubber,and auto plants made had nothing to do with increases in home ownership,and washing machines, cars, travel and vacations,roads and the building of infrastructure? You and your friends assertions don't pass the reality test. What we are experiencing is an economic crisis of over-production ,a glut of the market. Because of lay-offs and increases in the cost of living workers are not able to buy back the products they create. Putting more money in their pocket will not only stimulate the economy it is the human thing to do.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 12:40 pm ET)
                                                      1  
                                                      POV is just scared that the cost of his toothpaste is going to go up a nickel.
                                                      Report Abuse
                                    • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 11:52 am ET)
                                      2  
                                      No it is not foolish to think that raising the minimum wage will stimulate the economy. This"free" market you talk about is in your imagination. You look at the trend of capitalism is for greater monopolization not a break-up of the market. Jezzz, look around you where have you been. Mega-banks, how many mom and pop supermarkets do you see? You've heard of Wal-Mart is that an anonomaly? It's the trend! In almost every industry and in every capitalist corner the trend to grab greater and greater share of the market is the goal. It is the growing monopolization of the health insurance industry that has stifiled competition and drove up cost while lowering coverage. This is the trend and part of the natural process of capitalism. Thats why there were anti-trust laws created but these laws have been eroded throughout the years with the result being workers have seen their wages stagnate or dwindle(causing many to live off credit cards to stay afloat)or collaspe under the increasing burden of cost of living. The increase in monopolies have had the political effect of controlling government with bribes to key representatives and committees to do not the peoples bidding but that of the monied and influential. By increasing the minimum wage workers are more able to buy back the products they create ,thus releaving the log jam caused by over-production. Monopolization destroys competition and raises cost , the truth of that statment is born out in every facet of economic life today. From the banking industry to the supermarket you find and name a place where the trend isn't for greater monopolization of the market. There is no "FREE" market! The destruction of competition is destroying the middle class and driving them down to paupers. $10.00 p/h is still a poverty wage for a family of 4, and with the safety nets being taken away and no health coverage how is a worker to survive? Think about that the next you shop or eat out or ride the bus or drive your car or fill up at the gas station. Dam this wasn't even an increase in the standard of living just a slight increase in wages that do not even keep up with the standard of living? Quite to contrary, increasing wages will increase demand for products.
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                                      • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 12:27 pm ET)
                                          1
                                        Quite to contrary, increasing wages will increase demand for products

                                        Congero

                                        And what happens when demand goes up....hmmmm let me think about it....thats right....

                                        when demand goes up....PRICES go up.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 1:13 pm ET)
                                          1  
                                          "...when demand goes up....PRICES go up." That may sound good and rational off the top of your head but we both know the market forces are regulated by more than the law of supply and demand. In any case your conclusion is not necessarily true. More importantly lets look at the situation where in at present and that is a glut of the market which has caused the price of labor to fall(unemeployment,discrease in wages)making it hard to buy back the products labor produced! That is the place in this cycle we are at!
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                                          • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 1:17 pm ET)
                                            2  
                                            You must remember that POV has an extremely simplistic view of economics.
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                      • Author by NiceguyEddie (July 28, 2009 11:04 am ET)
                        2  
                        I'd rather have 100 people making a decent living than 200 living like slaves. We're a free economy. Some other company will eventually be hiring. But there's no reason to treat labor like cattle.
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by Murlz (July 28, 2009 4:22 am ET)
                        1
                      How about 1% profit.

                      How does that work for your retirement account(s) that is (are) invested in corporate America?

                      "employee pay (with perks) usually makes up only 1.5% of a products cost." Cite your source.

                      Report Abuse
      • Author by harley (July 28, 2009 10:20 am ET)
        2  
        You'll need to do better than that to convince me.
        Jesus Himself couldn't convince you of reality, Tommy.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 12:27 pm ET)
            4
          Did not think people like you believed in Jesus!!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 12:42 pm ET)
            2  
            From your stance against raising the minimum wage because the cost of toilet paper will go up a dime, I guess you don't believe in Jesus either.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 12:46 pm ET)
                3
              And once again, no matter how many times I tell you...I can afford price increases. Those making little money cannot. WHY is that so hard for you to understand? Why is it so hard for you to grasp that a raise in the minimum wage will not cover increases in gas, food, heating oil, and other products that will be raised because the higher wages cost BUSINESS more?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 1:14 pm ET)
                3  
                Here's why it's so hard for me to understand -

                BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE!!
                Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 1:34 pm ET)
                3  
                If it cannot cover it increase it some more! Why can't you see people are not keeping pace now! Your argument is a shallow one anyway and very simple. If the price of something was only figured by the wages of those producing it,why for example is that Sony widescreen 50" HDTV I droll over cost $5,000 dollars but is made by workers who live on less than $2.oo a day? How do you explain that diamond wedding ring your wife or girlfriend may wear or you may want for her costing the $1,000's it may cost but mined by those who barely get by and whose life expectancy is that of workers 2 centuries ago. Computers built by workers housed in slave like conditions yet in no way would you say that the wages paid correlated with the price of the computer. Some of the cheapest things are produced by the most expensive labor! Your equation of high wages high prices is to simple when the question is much more complex. You do no one a favor by spouting such simplistic gibberish, people are suffering!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mary59 (July 28, 2009 2:55 pm ET)
                  1 1
                  Thank you.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 3:11 pm ET)
                    1 1
                    Thankyou and your welcome!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 3:35 pm ET)
                      1 2
                      And for all of your attacks and one liners....NO ONE..NOT ONE of you has posted any info to show how any past increases in the minimum wage has stimulated the economy.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 3:58 pm ET)
                        1  
                        Stop being obstinate! Your ignorance is blinded by your arrogance!
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by foghornleghorn (July 28, 2009 7:45 pm ET)
                           
                        I'm not arguing that one, POV. I'm arguing that your assertion that raising the minimum wage raises prices.

                        But, about stimulating the economy. Doesn't it make sense that if you raise the wages of low-level earners, then they'll SPEND it rather than HOARD it. More money moving around in the economic system=a more robust economy.

                        Agree?
                        Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 1:44 pm ET)
            2 1
            "Did not think people like you believed in Jesus!!" Thats funny that was exactly what I was thinking about you!
            Report Abuse
    • Author by markbfoot199 (July 28, 2009 4:00 pm ET)
         
      What would have been nice is if MMFA could show us proof from the last increase how much the economy grew.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 4:01 pm ET)
           
        They would....if it existed. It does not.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 4:08 pm ET)
             
          Until you answer and respond to the examples and questions I raised in above post, why would you expect a response. You've been answered and asked you questions! Show my above post wrong! If cost was directly tied to wages how do you answer the examples I gave?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 4:12 pm ET)
               
            How do explain the increase in wages and expansion that took place after WWII? Are you saying the wages of the steelworkers,shipworkers,auto workers, and tire workers had nothing to do with stimulating a market for luxury goods and infrastructure and housing growth?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 4:18 pm ET)
                 
              Are you trying to tell me those people made minimum wage?? what a joke. Even given the fact that no such wage existed then, you cite examples of people who made well above the median salary, during an economic boom, after a global depression. Exactly how far did you make it in school?
              Report Abuse
          • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 4:13 pm ET)
              1
            You are examples are insane. And this was your ultimate "answer"

            If it cannot cover it increase it some more!


            The rest of your weak examples involves products NOT made in this country, by people NOT affected by a wage increase.

            It is amazing how weak your examples were......and yet......you still REFUSE to do ONE simple thing.

            Show how past increases have stimulated the economy. The sad point its, you still cant do it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 4:44 pm ET)
              1  
              So I get it you just refuse to answer the question! But i did provide you with more than that example I gave you the expansion after WWII and the wages of the shipworkers,dockworkers,steelworkers,tire and auto workers and benefits they earned as a reason for expansion in the housing market and luxury commodity market(TV's included which you think is guided by some different market principals)with all the infrastructure and economic growth! Arre you denying that?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 4:46 pm ET)
                  2
                READ my post above. I answered all of that. You still will not answer one question.

                Show how past increases have stimulated the economy. The sad point its, you still cant do it.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 5:21 pm ET)
                  1  
                  Wow!Are you saying the wages the workers were payed had nothing to do with the boom and expansion? Leave aside your insults which don't bother me at all, but it is striking for a person who complains about the "left" hurling insults then uses them frequently. I'am through with you I've seen you in operation and your just refusing to see. Funny how you argue against the minumum wage yet discard foreign workers from the equation and examples I gave because they don't have a minumum wage? It's very curious how you rationalize their misery yet call for the abandonment of laws and regulations that keeps employers from exploiting workers here on that level.Your benevolence even allows you rationalize in some way that actually raising their wages will actually make them poorer! The mind of a neo-con ceases to amaze me!
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 5:50 pm ET)
                       
                    Nice rant. Care to try and answer the question I have asked you all day?

                    Show how past increases have stimulated the economy.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 5:56 pm ET)
                         
                      Since I've answered your question but you refuse to accept it! Let me throw the question back at you. Can you show where past increases in the minimum wage have not stimulated the economy?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by mary59 (July 28, 2009 6:17 pm ET)
                         
                      "A turning point in the debate came in the 1990s as states such as New Jersey began boosting their mandated wages above the federal level.

                      In 1995, Princeton economists David Card and Alan Krueger published research on unemployment trends among fast-food restaurants in New Jersey and neighboring Pennsylvania. They found that the number of jobs rose in New Jersey compared with Pennsylvania, even though New Jersey had a higher minimum wage.

                      The study, while not perfect, ``provided evidence that went against the common view,'' Solow says. ``It changed the way many economists look at minimum wage.''

                      Bloomberg Press
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                      • Author by mary59 (July 28, 2009 6:25 pm ET)
                           
                        "Minimum wage critics predictably forecast dire consequences with every raise, and are just as predictably wrong. After the last federal minimum wage hikes in 1996 and 1997, the nation experienced dramatically stronger job growth, and lower inflation and poverty rates. States that have raised their minimum wages above $5.15 have had better employment and small business trends than states that have not.

                        Minimum wage raises aren't put under mattresses -- or offshore tax havens. They are recycled back into the economy.

                        'Overall most low-wage workers pump every dollar of their paychecks directly into the local economy by spending their money in their neighborhood stores, local pharmacies and corner markets,' notes Dan Gardner, commissioner of Labor and Industries for Oregon, which has the nation's second-highest minimum wage at $7.80.

                        from Common Dreams
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                      • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 6:35 pm ET)
                           
                        At least that gives me something to look at. Again, I dont think bad things will if the wage goes up, just not a lot of good things.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 7:30 pm ET)
                             
                          Still refusing to accept the proof huh? Clinging to myth at all cost. Sad indeed! By the way labor is international and TV's and it's components are built in different parts of the world as is most production now a days. So far from your negating my examples they are part of this discussion.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 8:05 pm ET)
                               
                            Your examples are not even in the ball park. Diamonds...are you kidding me. Steelworkers and Auto workers...not even close to those making a minimum wage. You are living in a fantasy world if you think your examples are even close.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (July 28, 2009 9:14 pm ET)
                              1  
                              Amazing my point was if wages determined what things would cost then how come low priced labor produces high priced products and vice or versa, if their was a direct correlation wouldn't the price of labor correspond to the product sold? It does not and that was my point, so your question therefore was too simplistic since it didn't take in other factors that determined wages minimum or otherwise! My second example was simply to point out the more money you put into workers hands the more they spend(Steelworkers whatever).Simple enough, and points made by the links and articles Mary provided you. Points not hard to understand to anyone that is not trying to twist reality into proving that increases in minimum wages or bad for the economy and actually make poor workers poorer. GOT IT!
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by pointofview (July 28, 2009 11:13 pm ET)
                                   
                                proving that increases in minimum wages or bad for the economy and actually make poor workers poorer. GOT IT!


                                LOL...whatever you say Chief. That was clear as mud.
                                Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (July 29, 2009 1:23 am ET)
         
      My heart goes out to Walmart.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by skiploader1111 (July 29, 2009 1:32 am ET)
         
      The min wage going up today is absolutely no suprise. Wall Street knew it was coming today and big and small businesses had written in their calendars (figuratively) with big letters "MINIMUM WAGES: $7.25" on today's date, yet in the weeks leading up to today, the markets have been going up.

      Explain that!

      Report Abuse

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