Special Report says "public venting" at health care town halls, ignores conservative efforts to pack events
On Special Report, anchor Bret Baier claimed that at recent congressional town hall meetings, the "public" is "venting" about health care reform, while correspondent Shannon Bream stated that "skeptical Americans across the country are pushing back" against the legislation. But at no point did Special Report note that conservative organizations opposed to the bills are conducting a campaign to turn out their supporters to attend those events, with the support of conservative media figures and outlets such as Rush Limbaugh and The Fox Nation.
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From the August 3 edition of Fox News' Special Report:
BAIER: Republican-turned-Democratic Senator Arlen Specter says August is shaping up to be a battleground month for health care reform. He should know, after enduring an antagonistic crowd at a weekend town hall meeting. Correspondent Shannon Bream reports on the public venting over changes it may not want.
[begin video clip]
BREAM: With health care reform unresolved in Washington, skeptical Americans across the country are pushing back, attending events aimed at opening up dialogue to give officials like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Democratic Senator Arlen Specter an earful.
Organized effort by conservative groups seeks to pack town halls
FreedomWorks
Pappas: Let your congressman "know what you think -- like these people did" in protest. In an August 3 blog post on the website of FreedomWorks, a group chaired by former House Majority Leader Dick Armey (R-TX), Max Pappas, a vice president of the group, linked to video of protesters disrupting a June 22 town hall meeting for Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY) and stated:
Members of the US House of Representatives are back home for August recess and are getting an earful from their constituents about current plans for a massive government intervention into health care and attempts to raise taxes on energy use through cap-and-trade.
If this video (h/t Drudgereport) is any indication of what is going on in town hall meetings across the country, the people have clearly had enough. If you know of a town hall meeting your Congressman is having, be sure to show up, bring some friends, and them know what you think -- like these people did in Rep. Tim Bishop's town hall on Long Island, NY:
Swift: Specter protest "a must emulate." In an August 3 blog post, FreedomWorks campaign coordinator Nan Swift linked to video of protesters interrupting Specter's town hall, stating it was "a must emulate at town halls across the country over the next month."
Town hall protests reportedly organized by groups including FreedomWorks. "The protests, organized by loose-knit coalition of conservative voters and advocacy groups, were a raucous start to what is expected to be weeks of political and ideological clashes over the health care overhaul President Obama is trying to push through Congress. The conservative groups, including FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, are harnessing social networking Web sites to organize their supporters in much the same way Mr. Obama did during his election campaign." [New York Times, 8/3/09]
Reported FreedomWorks volunteer authors town hall "playbook."
As Think Progress first reported, one tea-party friendly group has disseminated a strategy memo for other anti-reform and anti-government groups, outlining what they consider best-practices for protesters who plan to enter and disrupt town hall events hosted by members of Congress over the August recess--practices that, according to the memo, "could be useful to activists in just about any district where their Congressperson has supported the socialist agenda of the Democrat leadership in Washington."
The memo, authored by Robert MacGuffie, who runs the website rightprinciples.com, suggests that tea partiers should "pack the hall... spread out" to make their numbers seem more significant, and to "rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation...to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.... to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda...stand up and shout and sit right back down."
MacGuffie is a volunteer for FreedomWorks, the industry funded group that helps organize and support the tea party protests. But he denies that his small group has any direct affiliation with FreedomWorks. "We are recommending with that memo that other grassroots groups that share our view should go to the townhalls of their members and use the strategy that we did," MacGuffie told me, confirming the memo's authenticity. "We are trying to get into that town halls to make them understand that they do not have the unanimous support from people in their communities." [Talking Points Memo, 8/3/09]
Memo reportedly circulated among anti-reform groups, including FreedomWorks. Talking Points Memo reported that the memorandum advising people to disrupt town halls has been distributed to various anti-health reform organizations as well as tea party activists:
Like many political movements in the country, the so-called Tea Party Patriots organize on a number of email list serves--an eponymous google group, one called Health Care Freedom Tea Party, the aforementioned Tea Party Patriots Health Care Reform Committee--where the broader community of tea baggers, including those working independently, co-ordinate.
MacGuffie's memo was posted to the Tea Party Patriots' list serve, which is hundreds of members large, and includes representatives from not just small protest groups, but also major anti-health reform organizations such as Conservatives for Patients Rights, and Patients First, Patients United Now (an affiliate of Americans for Prosperity), and, yes, Freedom Works. [Talking Points Memo, 8/3/09]
Americans for Prosperity
Town hall protests reportedly organized by groups including Americans for Prosperity. "The protests, organized by loose-knit coalition of conservative voters and advocacy groups, were a raucous start to what is expected to be weeks of political and ideological clashes over the health care overhaul President Obama is trying to push through Congress. The conservative groups, including FreedomWorks and Americans for Prosperity, are harnessing social networking Web sites to organize their supporters in much the same way Mr. Obama did during his election campaign." [The New York Times, 8/3/09]
Group reportedly conducting 13-state anti-health reform tour. "A 13-state tour aiming to rally patients to speak out against President Barack Obama's desired health-care overhaul is scheduled to kick off in Richmond this weekend. Americans for Prosperity's 'Patients First' bus tour will start Saturday at a Richmond-area Tea Party, before traveling around the country and through the states of key U.S. senators in the health-care debate, said Ben Marchi, state director of Americans for Prosperity. Organizers will urge constituents to call or visit their senators and sign a petition that asks members of Congress to 'oppose any legislation that imposes greater government control over my health care that would mean fewer choices for me and my family and even deny treatments to those in need.' " [Richmond Times-Dispatch, 7/23/09]
AfP president: Group "has always encouraged members to ... attend town hall meetings of their senators and representatives."
From an August 3 blog post by Americans for Prosperity president Tim Phillips:
Americans for Prosperity has always encouraged members to visit the district offices and attend town hall meetings of their senators and representatives, especially during this August break when issues like health care and cap-and-trade are at the peak of debate. Our 500,000+ members are concerned about the impact of the cap-and-trade energy tax and a government takeover of health care, and we have a variety of grassroots events going on around the country.
[...]
We have encouraged our members to find out when their elected officials will be available and to share that information with us so that we can help others find the meetings. This is grassroots activism in its most basic form. We always promote a respectful exchange of ideas and civil behavior. In fact, I often say at events that we should "respect the office while making our voices heard." We never condone disruptive behavior.
It is disappointing to hear reports of some individuals acting inappropriately at some of the congressional events, though it should be made clear that the vast majority of Americans attending these congressional town hall meetings are acting in a respectful manner that still allows them to make their voices heard. We consistently remind our members to be courteous when making their voices heard and doing their civic duty.
As key issues like the health care takeover and the cap-and-trade energy tax are considered in Congress, we will continue to implore Americans to make their voices heard by contacting their members of Congress.
Conservatives for Patients' Rights
CPR spokesman reportedly "confirmed that it has undertaken a concerted effort to get people out to the town hall meetings to protest reform."
In response to my questions, a spokesman for the group confirmed that it has undertaken a concerted effort to get people out to the town hall meetings to protest reform. The spokesperson, Brian Burgess, confirmed that CPR is emailing out "town hall alert" flyers, and schedules of town hall meetings, to its mailing list.
These efforts -- combined with CPR's effort to enlist Tea Party-ers, as reported yesterday by TPM -- provide a glimpse into the ways anti-reform groups are trying to create a sense of public momentum in their favor.
CPR spokesman Burgess confirmed that the group had set up a list serv designed to reach out to "third party groups" involved in the health care fight, including the Tea Party activists. And in a statement emailed to me, Scott, who was ousted as a health-care exec amid a 1990s fraud probe, took credit for the town hall showings. [Greg Sargent, The Plum Line, 8/4/09]
CPR reportedly sent a list of town halls to Tea Party listserv. "On Friday, July 24, a representative of Conservatives for Patients Rights -- the anti-health care reform group run by Swift Boat message man Rick Scott -- sent an email to a list serve (called the Tea Party Patriots Health Care Reform Committee) containing a spreadsheet that lists over one hundred congressional town halls from late July into September. The email from CPR to tea baggers suggests that, though conservatives portray the tea bagger disruptions as symptoms of a populist rebellion roiling unprompted through key districts around the country, they have to a great extent been orchestrated by anti-health care reform groups financed by industry." [Talking Points Memo, 8/3/09]
CPR website features list of congressional town halls. CPR has posted a list of congressional town halls on its website "as a resource for our visitors." [CPR website, Town Halls]
CPR website has posted videos of town hall disruptions. Conservatives for Patients' Rights has also posted video clips of disruptions at congressional town halls. The website states: "Do you have a video from a Town Hall meeting you would like us to consider sharing here? Just post it to YouTube and email us ... and we will check it out." [CPR website, Town Hall Videos]
America's Health Insurance Plans
AHIP reportedly deploying employees to "track[] where local lawmakers hold town-hall meetings." "Meanwhile, insurers continue to wage an aggressive campaign against Democrats' proposals to create a public health-insurance plan. America's Health Insurance Plans has stationed employees in 30 states who are tracking where local lawmakers hold town-hall meetings." [The Wall Street Journal, 7/30/09]
Conservative media have expressed support for town hall disruptions
Rush Limbaugh: Town hall protesters doing "exactly what Obama taught people to do ... disrupt 'em." Limbaugh defended the town hall protesters as being "orderly people," not the "unruly mobs" he claims Democrats are describing them as. He continued: "These are genuine voting American citizens. It is -- what these Democrats are accusing you of doing, who go to these town hall meetings, is exactly what Obama taught people to do. He's the community agitator. He's the community organizer. Obama is the guy who taught people how to show up at events like this over and over again and rip 'em apart and tear 'em down, disrupt 'em, and make sure they don't happen. And now the tables have been turned. It's happening to him, only this time, it's not ginned up; it's genuine. It's real." [The Rush Limbaugh Show, 8/4/09]
Fox Nation: "More Town Hall Opposition! Watch This!"
Transcript
From the August 3 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier:
BAIER: Republican-turned-Democratic Senator Arlen Specter says August is shaping up to be a battleground month for health care reform. He should know, after enduring an antagonistic crowd at a weekend town hall meeting. Correspondent Shannon Bream reports on the public venting over changes it may not want.
[begin video clip]
BREAM: With health care reform unresolved in Washington, skeptical Americans across the country are pushing back, attending events aimed at opening up dialogue to give officials like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Democratic Senator Arlen Specter an earful.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want us to believe that a government that can't even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run one-seventh of our U.S. economy? No, sir. No.
BREAM: Democrats are likely to face more of the same over the next few weeks. House members headed home for recess with a memo from their leadership advising them to hold more of these meetings, telling them that winning the debate will require, quote, "nothing less than an aggressive multi-front effort to control the message," and the memo clearly outlines it.
Quote: "Our message is simple. It is in sync with the White House. And it counters the Republican government takeover message. Hold the insurance companies accountable."
But from the sound of this angry crowd in Austin, Texas, they were more interested in holding Democratic Congressman Lloyd Doggett accountable when he showed up on Saturday, as captured by an amateur photographer.
The evidence of shifting opinion isn't merely anecdotal. A Rasmussen poll out today shows a major change in how Americans feel about the current U.S. health care system. One year ago, 37 percent rated it poor with only 29 percent calling it good or excellent, but those figures have flipped. Forty-eight percent now view it as good or excellent, up nearly 20 points, and only 19 percent now rate the system poor.
With just a few days left before its recess, the Senate's bipartisan "gang of six" was back in action Monday trying to negotiate a deal. In the meantime, Republicans like Senator John Cornyn say they continue to hear from worried constituents and are not at all surprised by their decision to fight back.
CORNYN: They're scared, and they're angry. Many of them are showing up, of course, at town hall meetings and expressing their views. And more power to them. We may not always like it, but people do have their right to express their views.
[end video clip]
BREAM: And following today's "gang of six" meeting, Republican Senator Olympia Snowe said that they're working hard trying to keep to that September 15 deadline for getting a bill done -- that was set by the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Democrat Max Baucus.
Snowe says they'll use video teleconferencing if they have to to get something done through the recess. But one of the other Republicans in the gang, Senator Mike Enzi, said today, quote, he "will not adhere to an artificial deadline" -- Bret.
BAIER: Should be an interesting August. Shannon Bream, live on the Hill.
Tailored for the dumbed-down stupids.
Remember, all these greeaaat ideas you have sound great when dems are in power, maybe notsomuch if the gop is.
http://www.relfe.com/media_can_legally_lie.html
The people who show up may believe all the crap they're spewing, but they're just suckers and in their stupidity think that disrupting democracy is somehow just ducky.
2nd, when the bailouts were going down, all kinds of liberal interest groups were bussing protestors to the homes of CEO's, etc. I think it's fine and there's no need for an asterik at all.
However, you have false equivalency going on with the bussing to CEO homes. This was not to prevent actual conversation and dialog from taking place; it was because of the lack of dialog and actual conversation.
Further, the liberal interest groups are interested in the advancement of the country...not enriching themselves.
Further, the Democratic Party had nothing to do with these protests. The Republican Party is sponsoring mob disruption of any attempt to discuss healthcare.
Why are you bringing the Post Office into this? You do know that until e-mail, the Post office was in the black and still has to break even, which is why rates go up. BushCo had been privatizing even mail delivery via "experiments" and no doubt making the post office more inefficient.
If a lawyer lies, you get a mistrial.
If your doctor lies, you can sue for malpractice.
Why are politicians immune from telling the truth? It is ridiculous to see an elected official on the floor of the house saying the health care bill will kill seniors. There has to be some accountability and there are citizens who believe them because of their positions.
Holey christ on a bicycle...not reporting that conservative organizations, recruiting like-minded people, to attend town hall meetings to voice their opinions is regarded by mmfa as conservative misinformation?
What it does point out is the fact that many partisan groups, hiding behind the moniker of "watchdog" are just political operatives angling for expanded political power and control...nothing more...nothing less.
There is nothing...and I mean nothing...wrong with any group organizing attendance and tactics for meetings with their elected representatives...in order to make their feelings known.
This is a real swing and a miss by mmfa...except to emphasize the point that they are opposed to all things conservative. The goal is not to provide readers with factual information...except when it suits their political agenda.
That's certainly their right and I take no offense at their efforts. But to whine about conservative groups adopting the very same tactics as mmfa...referring to their many "action calls"...is shallow political maneuvering.
Nothing more...Nothing less.
Shocking....a teabagging hick whining about the content on MMFA....shocking
Dear Michael,
Last week, Daniel Leary told you about his mom, Irene, whose home of 34 years was about to be foreclosed upon unless we could convince her lender to hold off.
Within 24 hours, our actions worked. The lender agreed to take a month to work with her on a reasonable payment plan. It was nothing short of amazing.
Right now, I'm asking you to do it again. Meet Celina Gallegos, a single mom whose home is scheduled to be foreclosed Tuesday, July 7 at 1 p.m. Please, take a moment to help stop it - right now.
In her own words:
I never thought this could happen to me. Not the way I work.
I had my own housekeeping business, and I was constantly working. But when the economy started to get bad, business started disappearing - and now I have only half the clients I used to have. I took a part-time job at Sears to supplement my income - but it just isn't enough. I can't pay all of our bills. And it scares me so much that I don't know what we're going to do.
Everything I do in this world, I do for my son - including buying the house we live in, which I bought with every penny I could pull together a few years ago. And suddenly, I'm about to lose it - the home I scrimped and saved to buy, the very roof over our heads. My bank, Litton, is planning to auction my home off Tuesday, July 7 at 1 p.m.
I'm not asking for charity. I'm not interested in someone else paying my bills. I work hard for a living - even now, as I chase down every job, temporary, part-time, anything I can possibly find as I try to figure out how to pay my bills. And I pay them - but on a lot less income a month, I just can't make the full mortgage.
All I want is for my loan servicer, Litton, to sit down with me and work out a solution - so I can keep paying them every month, and so my son and I can keep our home. I don't think that's a lot to ask. And I know there are a lot of other people in my shoes too, and they just want the same thing. We just need a chance to talk to our banks. I just need a chance.
All Celina needs is a chance. You can give it to her. You. Right here, right now.
ACORN, joined today by our partner CREDO, is doing everything we can to keep Celina in her home. Asking her lender to sit down and talk with Celina, to work out a plan while she fights her way back - it's not a lot to ask. Especially when you learn that her lender has received bail-out money from the Federal government.
That's right - they took the help that was offered to them. We're asking them to offer that same help to Celina and others like her. Your action today will send a letter to Celina's bank, and to the CEOs of the other two banks whose mortgage servicing companies are foreclosing on families, asking them to sign on to the plan to weather this whole thing together and talk to families before booting them from their homes.
This is such terrifying position for Celina and others like her to be in. Thank you for being here for her - and please, do pass this on to a friend. We need all the help we can get.
In solidarity and strength,
Bertha Lewis
ACORN CEO and Chief Organizer
And his "mob" reference is baffling, since the letter said nothing about preventing a sheriff from doing his duty...this was all about it not getting that far!
"The memo, authored by Robert MacGuffie, who runs the website rightprinciples.com, suggests that tea partiers should "pack the hall... spread out" to make their numbers seem more significant, and to "rock-the-boat early in the Rep's presentation...to yell out and challenge the Rep's statements early.... to rattle him, get him off his prepared script and agenda...stand up and shout and sit right back down."
No one else was to have a chance to speak, and the legislator was not to be allowed to say anything. Staged demonstrations in THIS mode sounds like storm trooper tactics, not democratic protests.
"It is disappointing to hear reports of some individuals acting inappropriately at some of the congressional events, though it should be made clear that the vast majority of Americans attending these congressional town hall meetings are acting in a respectful manner that still allows them to make their voices heard. We consistently remind our members to be courteous when making their voices heard and doing their civic duty."
I'm also not sure why it's a problem for conservative movement to organize supporters to attent these events, but it's fine for ACORN, Moveon.org and Healthcare for Americans Now. I think the truth is that the democrats don't like having people who are in many cases more educated than they are on the contents of this legislation.
Fact is, organizing people who genuinely oppose something to protest bad legistation is not the same as paying protestor (ACORN AIG protest) for something they probably new very little about.
In case you missed it, there is no legislation.
I'm not either...but since mmfa is concerned about political activism...maybe they should rethink their own charter where they promote tactics using:
-- ...targeted public action campaigns; empowering and expanding progressive voices in the media by providing a full range of resources to assist the larger progressive community in creating and disseminating progressive information and views... -- media matters action network
Comparing MMFA to these brown shirts is yet another false analogy.
"Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media."
Two different groups, Wesley. Similar philosophies? Arguable. MMfA deals with the media. Got it? And, the Media Matters Action Network isn't busing people from place to place to disrupt democracy and the debate on issues of the day. The conservative lobbyists are doing just that, and are demonstrably and by their own words not interested in debate at all.
Also, once again, how can you defend the arrest of Gates on his own property for being rude while defending the rights of these right-wingers to interrupt townhall meetings and shout down their fellow citizens? What level of cognitive dissonance does it take not to see your own level of partisanship on this?
Yes, this is true. What is newsworthy in this instance is that the group doing the organizing is the RNC and a coalition of health insurance corporations acting through the facade of their lobbyists. This is not a random collection of citizens who wish to make their feelings known. It is a vicious and wealthy industry fighting tooth and nail to secure profits at the expense of American lives.
The real story is that this is the 'outrage' over health coverage reform is not a 'story' at all. It's a ploy by corporate wealth to protect corporate wealth. And it's also not about democracy, wesley, or these protesters would be asking questions. The fact is, they are bused in to shout down debate, not participate.
I won't question the busing aspect...but you haven't seen much of the videos of these events if you think questions aren't being asked.
What was patently clear to me was that many of these political hacks known as elected officials...our employees...were getting their backsides handed to them when they failed to answer questions and failed to get away with the old political ploy of evasion.
They expected to show up, par normal, well coiffed and well groomed...with their note cards of talking points...with no intention of answering any relevant questions.
If you want to see a real frustrated politician...watch here...and see a govt.employee getting his ears pinned back and not liking it one bit.
No where in America could private employees get away with providing to their employers the load of horse chestnuts that is the stock in trade of these clowns.
They did answer the questions. The bought and paid for protestors didn't listen to the answers because they were too busy doing what they were paid by their corporate masters to do - disrupt the meeting and shout down ANY answer.
Another verse has been added to the liberal version of the Hallelujah Chorus...at least Pavlov used treats and rewards.
A conservative gave his liberal buddy a ride home one afternoon. Upon arriving the liberal discovered he didn't have his key to his second story apartment.
The conservative went to the garage, took out the ladder, and climbed up to the second story window...finding that all the windows were locked.
As the conservative stood on the ladder, deciding whether to break the window or not...his liberal buddy hollered up at him.
"Too bad my landlord, Mrs.Jones isn't here. She has a key to my apartment and she could go up and open the window for you."
The liberal send over some groceries and tried to get people elected who would give some relief to people with bad mortgages.
Oops. That's no joke.
LET 'EM DIE
Are they unhappy with their representative? They seem to be, yes. And they are free to vote him out, or, failing that, to try for a vote of no confidence and have him removed from office. Truth is, he doubtless represents many more than the twenty or so people who showed up to shout at him. Aside from that, this video link is off topic. Care to try again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gS4MI8fuXzw
Here are the 'rational' 'reasonable' 'polite' protesters. Listen carefully for a question from the peanut gallery.
That's a pretty good argument, and since I don't know her, I do not know if she's a "plant" or not. But how do we add 30 million more without adding more doctors, how is waiting time going to be addressed, is this going to be the final pricetag, or do we add more after the first week because we underestimated the "popularity" of the program, and what happens when the for profit private insurance companies can't compete with the not for profit Govt run one?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08032009/news/regionalnews/medicaid_scammers__they_fee_dead_people_182767.htm
Government competition in health coverage is designed to bring costs down. Americans currently pay twice what other industrialized nations pay for health coverage, and not even 100% of the population is covered. Where does the rest of that money go, dave? Not to the government, and not to you and me.
It's not a 1.3 trillion dollar program. Two thirds of the money is either already being spent, or factored in as cost reductions due to competition. The rest will be taxed from the rich, who haven't really paid their fair share since 1980 or so.
The private insurance industry in this country is getting twice the money that they do in other countries, providing the same or worse coverage, and obviously wants to maintain the status quo. Sorry, but if -half- of my premiums are going simply to line the pockets of executives, then YES, it does matter very much where the money goes, dave.
A non profit plan would drive costs down for all insurance policy holders, public and private. Of course every large system is subject to fraud, including private health insurance.
You say 1.3 trillion dollar program as though it will add that much to the budget. It won't. Saying it this way is misleading and false.
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
Read up, and see if you still think that private health insurance is -for- the American people, or -against- the American people.
We also need a much more intensive focus on wellness care, which means checkups for all every six months to stay ahead of conditions that are cheap to treat early, but pricey if caught late.
I still think that a public option run nonprofit will take some of the cost out by driving executive salaries down. The biggest cost for almost any organization is payroll.
Copay for everyone? How about on everything -except- checkups. We -want- people to have checkups.
By the way, if you're here illegally, we'll still treat you. We will just bill your government for the cost when we deport you from the hospital.
Tort reform ('torte' is a type of cake) isn't much of an answer. Punitive damages can be limited but, I do NOT believe that there should be any limit on actual damages. (if you're not sure what these terms mean, you shouldn't be discussing tort reform).
By the way, what do you do with someone who can't afford the copay?
And the rich should pay more because for the past 8 years they were on Dubya's gravy train.
Fair share? How about 90% tax rate on all compensation, including stock options, private planes, etc. over $1 million/year. The fact is that the rich will do all they can to bend the rules in their favor and grow still richer. Reagan made more millionaires than any other president, which sounds great until you find out he also made far and away more homeless people. All that wealth flowing uphill -does- have a downside.
ACORN registered people to vote. They didn't bus people to where voter registration was taking place and try to disrupt it. Apples and oranges there, I'm afraid.
The rest of your post seems to be filled with insurance company propaganda. Or, is it conservative talking points? Well, they're all written at the same lobbying firm, so I guess it doesn't really matter.
There is far more support FOR health coverage reform than there is opposed to it, if you count by population. If you count by dollars, then the majority of the wealthy in this nation is of course opposed, whether because they are insurance company executives or play golf with them.
Acron has and still continues to pick up individuals and bus them to protest. Example the AIG protest and the mortgage protest currently happen.
The rest of my points are in the bill, I think you need to take the time and read the bill, I even gave you a page number.
The last point is wrong, every day more and more polls are coming out showing the American public does not want this type of healthcare.
I am so sorry that you are mislead but stop looking at MSNBC and read the purposed healthcare bill. That is were I get my information abouth this bill.
Most people want MAJOR health care reform. Its a fact. Get used to it.
Are you in that group?
That's coverage that anchors people to jobs they don't like, coverage that's profit-driven, coverage that's cancelled on the whim of a desk jockey.
Profits over People. That's your bumper sticker.
You are correct, no one is turned away from the ER. But as usual that is no argument against universal coverage. Going to the ER is done as a last resort. And what happens after the ER visit? A flood of bills that forces people into bankruptcy.
Why are you choosing to be a pawn of the insurance companies? And don't forget your bumper sticker:
PROFITS OVER PEOPLE
If you cannot afford health insurance, you will be less likely to go to a doctor for routine checkups. Say you are having a small pain in the left side of your chest. Nothing serious, nothing problematic, and it's not even always there. So, no insurance? Let it sort itself out. For a couple of years.
Now the pain is there most of the time, and just today, you woke up coughing, and there was blood in what you coughed up. Oops, time to go to the hospital.
They do the tests, figure out that you have lung cancer, and the doctor tells you, "Gee, if only we had caught this sooner, we probably could've treated it. Now we're going to have to remove your entire lung."
They do the operation, spend about $50,000 making you well again, and present you with the bill. You have no money, so you declare bankruptcy. Now the hospital is on the hook for that $50,000, but they're in the business of making money, not giving it away. What do they do? They raise the cost of EVERYBODY ELSE'S health care to cover your procedure.
See, the whole point is, with universal coverage available, you'd have checkups, and catch things like this while they are still treatable, and bring costs DOWN for everybody. You'd like to pay -less- money and get the same coverage, I'm sure.
So, for a little money spent up front, we reap big benefits down the road by avoiding expensive procedures. Now, is that clear enough for you?
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mkt=en-us&vid=c4ac6ba3-397b-46e4-8acc-0f6e9095c292&wa=wsignin1.0
FYI, look at the recent views about this healthcare reform, the MAJORITY of the public does not want it.
This is the goverment site that list bills.
http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/07/americas-affordable-health-choices-act.shtml
Here is the bill number, America's Affordable Health Choices Act: Complete Bill Text (HR 3200) »
So let me see if I get this right, there is no Bill? Hmm wrong again. So how about you open the link, read the 1000 plus bill and come back and tell me it is not a bill. What it is not yet is Law.
And while you are reading the bill, guess what? they want to tap into your bank accounts. What do you think about that, so they will get their money first, and will check to make sure you even have the money to pay for any other cost.
10 ‘‘SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE
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12 ‘‘(a) STANDARDS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRA13
TIVE TRANSACTIONS.—
14 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall adopt
15 and regularly update standards consistent with the
16 goals described in paragraph (2).
17 ‘‘(2) GOALS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRA18
TIVE TRANSACTIONS.—The goals for standards
19 under paragraph (1) are that such standards shall—
20 ‘‘(A) be unique with no conflicting or re21
dundant standards;
22 ‘‘(B) be authoritative, permitting no addi23
tions or constraints for electronic transactions,
24 including companion guides;
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58
1 ‘‘(C) be comprehensive, efficient and ro2
bust, requiring minimal augmentation by paper
3 transactions or clarification by further commu4
nications;
5 ‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real6
time) determination of an individual’s financial
7 responsibility at the point of service and, to the
8 extent possible, prior to service, including
9 whether the individual is eligible for a specific
10 service with a specific physician at a specific fa11
cility, which may include utilization of a ma12
chine-readable health plan beneficiary identi13
fication card;
14 ‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
15 adjudication of claims;
16 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
17 response, and status reporting applicable to any
18 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
19 the Secretary;
20 ‘‘(G) describe all data elements (such as
21 reason and remark codes) in unambiguous
22 terms, not permit optional fields, require that
23 data elements be either required or conditioned
24 upon set values in other fields, and prohibit ad25
ditional conditions; and
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59
1 ‘‘(H) harmonize all common data elements
2 across administrative and clinical transaction
3 standards.
4 ‘‘(3) TIME FOR ADOPTION.—Not later than 2
5 years after the date of implementation of the X12
6 Version 5010 transaction standards implemented
7 under this part, the Secretary shall adopt standards
8 under this section.
9 ‘‘(4) REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STAND10
ARDS.—The standards under this section shall be
11 developed, adopted and enforced so as to—
12 ‘‘(A) clarify, refine, complete, and expand,
13 as needed, the standards required under section
14 1173;
15 ‘‘(B) require paper versions of standard16
ized transactions to comply with the same
17 standards as to data content such that a fully
18 compliant, equivalent electronic transaction can
19 be populated from the data from a paper
20 version;
21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad24
vice;
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1 ‘‘(D) require timely and transparent claim
2 and denial management processes, including
3 tracking, adjudication, and appeal processing ;
4 ‘‘(E) require the use of a standard elec5
tronic transaction with which health care pro6
viders may quickly and efficiently enroll with a
7 health plan to conduct the other electronic
8 transactions provided for in this part; and
9 ‘‘(F) provide for other requirements relat10
ing to administrative simplification as identified
11 by the Secretary, in consultation with stake12
holders.
more Americans said it would be better to pass "major reform" to health care (55%) rather than "minor adjustments" (43%).
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1913426,00.html
The only reason that fewer people support this reform is due to the LIES originating from health care corporation lobbyists and promoted by right-wing media outlets.
Like kill granny. Government beaurocrats coming between you and your doctor. etc. etc. etc.
By the way, I'm selling bumper stickers for people like you:
PROFITS OVER PEOPLE
I never talked about Granny.
I can give more polls to prove you wrong, but you can find those on your own at google.
Last, your bumper sticker
I'm a CDLL
Cool-Aid Drinking Lying Liberal
Secondly, I posted a sufficient amount of text to refute what you allege it says. You've mistakenly interpreted several pages of this proposed bill. I posted page 29 in it's entirety, markbfoot199, and nowhere does it talk about rationing as you claim.
And for the record, it's Kool-Aid.
Why are you against health care for everyone?
Didn't you take civics in high school? Or watch the old cartoon about how a bill becomes a law?
Okay, -that- made me have to stand up and sing the preamble song, foghornleghorn. So, thanks. :)
Kool-Aid the drink should not be held responsibile for your problems.
Fool me once, markbfoot199, shame on you. Fool me twice... won't get fooled again.
Get OBL dead or alive
And my favorite:
Bring it on!
Page 16:
16 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT 1 COVERAGE. 2 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV-3 ERAGEDEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of 4 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov-5 erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health 6 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance 7 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the 8 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met: 9
So, page 16 is about protecting the choice to keep your current private insurance if you want. Caught you in a lie there.
page 58 is a continuation of this section from page 57:
‘‘SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS
‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real- time) determination of an individual’s financial 6 responsibility at the point of service and, to the 7 extent possible, prior to service, including 8 whether the individual is eligible for a specific 9 service with a specific physician at a specific fa-10 cility, which may include utilization of a ma-11 chine-readable health plan beneficiary identi-12 fication card; 13
I'm guessing this is what you are referring to. It is simply about using electronic funds transfer as a more efficient means of conducting business. You know, like having your paycheck directly deposited as opposed to mailed to you. It does suggest checking the financial ability of the patient to pay for the care provided, but that's invariably the second question I am asked by health care workers. "Do you have insurance?" followed by "How will you be paying today?" No difference here between public and private options. Another lie. Hmmmm.
Page 29 (in it's entirety; sorry about the spamminess)
services (as specified under the benefit standards), 1 including well baby and well child care. 2 (2) ANNUALLIMITATION.— 3 (A) ANNUALLIMITATION.—The cost-shar-4 ing incurred under the essential benefits pack-5 age with respect to an individual (or family) for 6 a year does not exceed the applicable level spec-7 ified in subparagraph (B). 8 (B) APPLICABLE LEVEL.—The applicable 9 level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is 10 $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a 11 family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded 12 to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year 13 by the annual percentage increase in the Con-14 sumer Price Index (United States city average) 15 applicable to such year. 16 (C) USEOFCOPAYMENTS.—In establishing 17 cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and pre-18 mium plans under this subsection, the Sec-19 retary shall, to the maximum extent possible, 20 use only copayments and not coinsurance. 21 (3) MINIMUMACTUARIALVALUE.— 22 (A) INGENERAL.—The cost-sharing under 23 the essential benefits package shall be designed 24 to provide a level of coverage that is designed25
Nowhere on this page does it talk about rationing. It's part of a section relating to the definition of a minimally acceptable package of coverage. Another lie.
Page 42
SEC. 142. DUTIES AND AUTHORITY OF COMMISSIONER. (a) DUTIES.—The Commissioner is responsible for 4 carrying out the following functions under this division: 5
This page is the beginning of the description of the responsibilities of the commissioner who will oversee the public option program. You know, like the president of a health insurance company oversees what policies his company writes? Got to have someone in charge.
So, I've read it, and I've checked the pages you mentioned, and all of your assertions were false. Want to go for double Jeopardy where the scores can -really- change?
A question that is being asked by folks like me. What does your Dem say!!!!
Can you promise me that I will not lose my current plan and doctor? President Obama says it is “not legitimate” to claim the “public option is somehow a Trojan horse for a single-payer system.” But Reps. Barney Frank (D-MA), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), and Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman have all admitted that the public option will inevitably lead to government-run health care. The independent and non-partisan Lewin Group estimates that about 83.4 million people would lose their private insurance if Obamacare became law.
Use as many exclamation points as you like. It makes you seem no more intelligent or knowledgeable, though it does make you seem a bit more shrill.
Can I promise you that you will not lose your current plan and doctor? Of course not! What if a tornado strikes, and sweeps your doctor up to heaven? What if your employer folds and you lose your current plan? What if the world ends tomorrow? With just on 'if' you can put all of Paris into a bottle.
What I can guarantee you is that this proposed bill does not take away private insurance. If your current provider is in such bad shape that they cannot compete in regards to cost and coverage with what the Right assures us is the worst possible government plan in existence, then they will likely go out of business and good riddance. Competition, right? That's what all true Americans are in favor of?
The Lewin Group is a conservative insurance company think tank, markbfoot199. I'm not as ignorant as the average dittohead.
Let me ask you this: Since Social Security is a government funded retirement plan, been around for 70+ years now, has it driven privately funded health plans out of business? Can you still get a 401k? A pension from your employer? Of COURSE you can. Show me how a public option is any different.
What do you think limitation of new enrollment means, and why put a date when goes into effect.
Also, if my current employer changes any of my insurance, it then becomes void and I would have to enroll in the new government health care. Cat open your eyes, do not be naive.
1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV4
ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov6
erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef15
fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER18
MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be26
fore the first day of Y1.
10 ‘‘SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE
11 TRANSACTIONS.
12 ‘‘(a) STANDARDS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRA13
TIVE TRANSACTIONS.—
14 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—The Secretary shall adopt
15 and regularly update standards consistent with the
16 goals described in paragraph (2).
17 ‘‘(2) GOALS FOR FINANCIAL AND ADMINISTRA18
TIVE TRANSACTIONS.—The goals for standards
19 under paragraph (1) are that such standards shall—
20 ‘‘(A) be unique with no conflicting or re21
dundant standards;
22 ‘‘(B) be authoritative, permitting no addi23
tions or constraints for electronic transactions,
24 including companion guides;
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58
1 ‘‘(C) be comprehensive, efficient and ro2
bust, requiring minimal augmentation by paper
3 transactions or clarification by further commu4
nications;
5 ‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real6
time) determination of an individual’s financial
7 responsibility at the point of service and, to the
8 extent possible, prior to service, including
9 whether the individual is eligible for a specific
10 service with a specific physician at a specific fa11
cility, which may include utilization of a ma12
chine-readable health plan beneficiary identi13
fication card;
14 ‘‘(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time
15 adjudication of claims;
16 ‘‘(F) provide for timely acknowledgment,
17 response, and status reporting applicable to any
18 electronic transaction deemed appropriate by
19 the Secretary;
20 ‘‘(G) describe all data elements (such as
21 reason and remark codes) in unambiguous
22 terms, not permit optional fields, require that
23 data elements be either required or conditioned
24 upon set values in other fields, and prohibit ad25
ditional conditions; and
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59
1 ‘‘(H) harmonize all common data elements
2 across administrative and clinical transaction
3 standards.
4 ‘‘(3) TIME FOR ADOPTION.—Not later than 2
5 years after the date of implementation of the X12
6 Version 5010 transaction standards implemented
7 under this part, the Secretary shall adopt standards
8 under this section.
9 ‘‘(4) REQUIREMENTS FOR SPECIFIC STAND10
ARDS.—The standards under this section shall be
11 developed, adopted and enforced so as to—
12 ‘‘(A) clarify, refine, complete, and expand,
13 as needed, the standards required under section
14 1173;
15 ‘‘(B) require paper versions of standard16
ized transactions to comply with the same
17 standards as to data content such that a fully
18 compliant, equivalent electronic transaction can
19 be populated from the data from a paper
20 version;
21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad24
vice;
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60
1 ‘‘(D) require timely and transparent claim
2 and denial management processes, including
3 tracking, adjudication, and appeal processing ;
4 ‘‘(E) require the use of a standard elec5
tronic transaction with which health care pro6
viders may quickly and efficiently enroll with a
7 health plan to conduct the other electronic
8 transactions provided for in this part; and
9 ‘‘(F) provide for other requirements relat10
ing to administrative simplification as identified
11 by the Secretary, in consultation with stake12
holders.
My favorite: athlete pilot cat swallow beaver bee...
Thats really funny coming from someone who would criticize ACORN or Unions organizing or staging a protest. The difference is that the Unions and ACORN don't have hacks in the media and a TV station helping to promote them,infact for them the opposite is true. What I have seen is not people asking questions but people disrupting meetings and keeping others from getting THEIR questions answered. You lost the election and now like when Clinton was president you conservatives are trying everything to overturn a election,the democractic will of the people. The reality is your side ran the country into the ground the last 8 yrs. you had your chance to do reform and did nothing but enrich your friends, now the situation is out of control!...You cite page numbers in the house bill then you go on to interpret them for us. I would prefer you provided the actual quotes from the bill that say what you allege instead of your interpretation. There is alot of distortion and lies going out about what is in and what is not in the bill and YOU seem to be peddleling more conservative BS because I have not seen anything like what you say in the bill. Provide the quotes ! I wish we did have a single-payer system and remove the profit motive and the insurance companies from healthcare but that is not what these bills are about. People are going bankrupt and healthcare cost are skyrocketing and all you conservatives have to offer is disruption as you shrill for insurance companies.
Your comment about 8 yrs to reform and enrich friends, I think you better look at this administration and whom is getting rich these days. Your a HYPROCRITE accept the truth.
Con, read above the insert I placed from the bill, and I will continue to show you as a hack of the left with more of what is in the bill. I guess you do not have the attention span to read 1000 plus pages, but we on the right do.
bill
12 (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—
13 (1) IN GENERAL.—There is established a pri14
vate-public advisory committee which shall be a
15 panel of medical and other experts to be known as
16 the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to rec17
ommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced,
18 and premium plans.
b) DUTIES.—
12 (1) RECOMMENDATIONS ON BENEFIT STAND13
ARDS.—
(c) OPERATIONS.—
BENEFIT STANDARDS DEFINED
(5) LEVELS OF COST-SHARING FOR ENHANCED
16 AND PREMIUM PLANS.—
7 (1) PER DIEM PAY.—Each member of the
8 Health Benefits Advisory Committee shall receive
9 travel expenses, including per diem in accordance
10 with applicable provisions under subchapter I of
11 chapter 57 of title 5, United States Code, and shall
12 otherwise serve without additional pay.
So this group will be the ones that determine your health care, not really doctors. They will say what is considered acceptable healthcare and mean while they get to fly all around the country looking into types of treatments.
They're recommending benefits, and how to structure the various public option plans, markbfoot199. They are not determining who will or will not get what procedures. Still another lie. The second section says they will get per diem and travel expenses and otherwise be uncompensated. Sounds a lot cheaper than supporting millionaire insurance executives. Know what that means? You're actually posting evidence against your viewpoint.
(Or maybe he doesn't understand what he's pasting after all....)
2 Requirements; Miscellaneous
3 SEC. 151. RELATION TO OTHER REQUIREMENTS.
4 (a) COVERAGE NOT OFFERED THROUGH EX5
CHANGE.—
6 (1) IN GENERAL.—In the case of health insur
7ance coverage not offered through the Health Insur8
ance Exchange (whether or not offered in connection
9 with an employment-based health plan), and in the
10 case of employment-based health plans, the require11
ments of this title do not supercede any require12
ments applicable under titles XXII and XXVII of
13 the Public Health Service Act, parts 6 and 7 of sub14
title B of title I of the Employee Retirement Income
15 Security Act of 1974, or State law, except insofar as
16 such requirements prevent the application of a re17
quirement of this division, as determined by the
18 Commissioner.
Wow A commissioner gets to decide if you get to go beyond certain health care cost, and only if it meets the other requirements. Wow, the government gets to decide your healthcare in special cases, not a doctor. HMMM You on the left should go look at the other areas to see what those are, I have, too much government in my life.
I'm beginning to suspect that you aren't even reading what you are cutting and pasting, and if you are, then this is simply one more lie you have told. Based on the special characters embedded in the text, I'm further supposing that you have cut and pasted this from somewhere on the web as opposed to downloading the PDF and reading it yourself.
15 SEC. 153. WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION.
16 (a) RETALIATION PROHIBITED.—No employer may
17 discharge any employee or otherwise discriminate against
18 any employee with respect to his compensation, terms,
19 conditions, or other privileges of employment because the
20 employee (or any person acting pursuant to a request of
21 the employee)—
22 (1) provided, caused to be provided, or is about
23 to provide or cause to be provided to the employer,
24 the Federal Government, or the attorney general of
25 a State information relating to any violation of, or
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52
1 any act or omission the employee reasonably believes
2 to be a violation of any provision of this Act or any
3 order, rule, or regulation promulgated under this
4 Act;
5 (2) testified or is about to testify in a pro6
ceeding concerning such violation;
7 (3) assisted or participated or is about to assist
8 or participate in such a proceeding; or
9 (4) objected to, or refused to participate in, any
10 activity, policy, practice, or assigned task that the
11 employee (or other such person) reasonably believed
12 to be in violation of any provision of this Act or any
13 order, rule, or regulation promulgated under this
14 Act.
There, markbfoot199, there is the context within which your cut and pasted post exists. It addresses the commissioner for the public option dealing with complaints from the health care sector, and protects those who bring fraud and abuse to light. That would lower costs, wouldn't it? Even costs for private insurance holders.
I'm coming to the conclusion you are simply a mindless troll who can't or won't even bother to read the lies he's posting, markbfoot199. I've caught you in, what? 5 or 6 just on this thread alone!
Why can't you understand that?
Why don't you understand that?
dave, I agree with you on tort reform. However, I do not agree that because the bill is not going to be perfect that we should do nothing. I am lucky enough to make a lot of money and I have no problem paying more money for better healthcare for the country. In the long run, enabling preventive medicine and making healthcare about medicine first instead of maximizing profits will be better for society as a whole.
And if there are unanswered questions then these townhall meetings are the perfect place to get questions answered. However, if a group of people show up to shout down the speaker and chant over the questions, I guess they are not really there to get answers, but rather to keep answers from being given.
mark wants to know what programs FDR instituted that are still operating today. He is in need of basic history and civics lessons. Also reading retention.
Hopefully all you curious folks out there who still haven't decided have noticed one thing, at least: Those opposed to health coverage reform are shrill, abusive, and willing to lie to convince you they are right.
What we in the public do not want is this government running health care. I am for a low cost health care system, but not run by this government. I do not want the government to have access to my bank account. I do not want the government to push private healthcare out of business.
So Cat, yes I want everyone to take the time to read the bill, do not trust MSNBC or any other network. Read the bill yourself and then make a choice. Just remember this, your own rep will not accpet this as their on health care, why is that, not good enough for them, but ok for you.
Can you promise that you and your family will enroll in the public plan? Members of Congress and their families currently receive health care through the popular, and completely public-option-free, Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) which allows members of Congress to choose between 283 private health insurance plans. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) proposed an amendment that would require all members of Congress and their staffs to enroll in the newly-created public health insurance plan. His amendment passed by just one vote in the Senate Health Committee. In the House, Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) offered a similar amendment and all 21 Democrats on the House Ways and Means Committee voted it down. If the public plan is so great, then Members of Congress should be willing to forfeit their private coverage and join the millions of Americans who would be moved into the public plan.
By "public" I assume you mean the 29%ers. Are you against VA insurance and medicare? After all, they are government run insurance.
I do not want the government to push private healthcare out of business.
PROFITS OVER PEOPLE
Why are you a willing pawn of the corporate insurance interests? (And why won't you answer any questions? Is it because you don't have any answers except lies and talking points?)
Okay, you've drifted off topic. We're not talking about the government running health -care-. We're talking about the government providing health -coverage-. Totally different things.
"I do not want the government to have access to my bank account." How do I say this? It's too late. If you do not pay your taxes, the IRS will simply seize your bank account. So, too late.
"I do not want the government to push private healthcare out of business." It's private health insurance that is putting private insurance out of business. They got too greedy, and forgot what business they were in in the first place. They chose profits over people, just like you are doing.
"Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) proposed an amendment that would require all members of Congress and their staffs to enroll in the newly-created public health insurance plan."
Seriously? A Republican senator is trying to force people into public health coverage?! Why wasn't this in the news? Are you not shocked by this behavior, markbfoot199? This Republican isn't even waiting until it's passed!
Perhaps the dissenting members of the committee can afford private plans they like better, markbfoot199? Or, had that thought not occurred to you.
if the conservatives are against the bill, they should show up to express there opposition .
The ways and means committee voted down an amendment to the bill that would have insured that the health care would only be for US citizens.
If the conservatives are against being taxed so that 25-40 million illegal aliens can get free health care...they should show up and yell and scream.
You're supporting the draining of the economy by out of control health care costs and falling for the false talking points of the health care industry, invested in keeping the status quo.
I've been at meetings where people were quite emotional, but controlled. After 9/11 we had many people in meetings, as one might expect. The run-up to the war in Iraq drew impassioned crowds, nearly all of whom were aghast that America would invade another country. The most upset were well educated immigrants from European countries who lived through WWII. These same people showed up in large numbers after Abu Graib torture and the Military Commissions Act removed habeas corpus protections.
I mention this because the distinction between the rude behavior at the recent events is totally out of character to what I've seen exhibited by American citizens under very stressful times.
The other distinction is that the recent videos show large numbers of people who are extremely misinformed on subjects where the facts are easy to obtain.
Yes, we've had people at our meetings who quoted screeds from the Internet about 9/11 being done by Cheney. But these people were met with polite coughs and "thank you, next question is number ___." We've had people who complained about taxes and fraud and, well, the usual.
But in all these cases people came to be INFORMED. That's lacking with the current events.
For all these reasons, I don't see honest curiosity or even citizens concerned about their government. I see people who literally have no interest in the rule of law, but mob rule.