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Media ignore GOP proposal that would cause many to lose insurance coverage for abortion

August 28, 2009 8:10 pm ET — 60 Comments

Several media outlets have purported to fact-check claims about government funding for abortion but have ignored the fact that a proposed amendment by abortion opponents would have had the effect of forcing many who currently have abortion coverage to lose such coverage even if they receive no government subsidy. The amendment offered by Reps. Bart Stupak (D-MI) and Joe Pitts (R-PA) would have barred anyone who receives insurance through the health care exchanges created by the House bill from buying insurance that covers abortion.

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GOP proposal would have prohibited insurance plans that cover abortion from participating in exchange

Stupak-Pitts proposal prohibited federal funds from being used "to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion." From the Stupak-Pitts amendment, which was rejected by the House Energy and Commerce Committee by a 31-27 vote:

No funds authorized under this Act (or an amendment made by this Act) may be used to pay for any abortion or to cover any part of the costs of any health plan that includes coverage of abortion, except in the case where a woman suffers from a physical disorder, physical injury, or physical illness that would, as certified by a physician, place the woman in danger of death unless an abortion is performed, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself, or unless the pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.

Plans that participate in exchange must accept customers that receive government subsidies, so Stupak-Pitts amendment would have prohibited plans that cover abortion from participating in exchange. As stated by a House staff description of the House bill, Section 112 "[r]equires guaranteed issue (no one can be denied health insurance)," and Section 112 applies to insurance "offered to individuals ... through the Health Insurance Exchange."

Many plans offered by employers currently cover abortion. According to the Guttmacher Institute, the "best available evidence" on the extent of coverage of abortion by employer-sponsored health insurance plans comes from a Guttmacher Institute study finding that "87% of typical employer-based insurance policies in 2002 covered medically necessary or appropriate abortions" and a 2003 Kaiser Family Foundation study finding that 46% of covered workers had abortion coverage. Guttmacher stated that the large difference in results stemmed from different methodologies: Guttmacher surveyed "medical directors of insurance companies and asked them about the typical insurance policy they wrote for employers" while the Kaiser Family Foundation surveyed "employers' human resources staff and asked about their firm's coverage."

Many Americans currently covered by employer-sponsored plans would switch to exchange-provided insurance under plan and would therefore lose option of coverage for abortion. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that in 2016, "about 9 million people who would otherwise have had employer coverage would not be enrolled in an employment-based plan under the proposal." Such employees would have to enroll in health insurance through the exchanges unless they qualified for another insurance program such as Medicare or Medicaid. All told, the CBO estimates that 30 million people will participate in the exchanges, all of whom would, under the Stupak-Pitts proposal, therefore be barred from purchasing insurance that covers abortion regardless of whether they received subsidies.

Media "fact checks" fail to note GOP proposal to ban abortion coverage through exchange

CBS' Attkisson "searched for answers" on abortion question but didn't note the GOP amendment:

SHARYL ATTKISSON (CBS News investigative correspondent): But separating fact from fiction isn't always easy in a health care reform bill that's not finished. In fact, four different versions have been approved by congressional committees. We searched for answers among the three drafts available. On abortion --

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What is your position on taxpayer-funded abortion, which will increase the death of preborn infants by 30 percent?

ATTKISSON: Would the government pay for abortion? That's unclear. Two of the bills don't address the question at all. Under one version, abortions would have to be available through at least one insurance plan. But Democrats say abortions would be paid for with the patient's premium, not federal money. [CBS Evening News, 8/12/09]

ABC fact check fails to note facts about the conservative proposal:

[begin video clip]

KATE SNOW (correspondent): Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion. The president has said the government should not pay for it.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: You know I'm pro-choice. But I think we also have a tradition of, in this town, historically, of not financing abortions as part of, you know, government-funded health care.

SNOW: One version of the House reform bill would allow health plans to cover abortions as long as they were paid for entirely with private funds. It might not be the easiest thing to regulate, keeping public and private money separate, but experts say it could work.

[end video clip]

SNOW: That version of the House bill may end up being the final version, but frankly, we just don't know yet. And, of course, the Senate is working on its own version. So, the bottom line is, we don't know yet if taxpayers could end up funding abortions. It is up to the members of Congress, Charlie, and the president. [World News, 8/13/09]

Cleveland Plain Dealer fact check reports that Stupak is "dissatisfied" with abortion language but not effect of his proposal:

Some anti-abortion members of Congress are dissatisfied with the language in the bill. For example, Michigan Democrat Bart Stupak doesn't think there would be a realistic way to separate the federal money from private money to ensure that no tax dollars go to abortion.

The National Right to Life Committee labels [California Democrat Lois] Capps' amendment "a phony compromise" that would allow subsidies to private insurance plans that cover elective abortion.

Toledo Democrat Marcy Kaptur, who also opposes abortion, doesn't think the bill will lead to taxpayer-funded abortions because of the Hyde Amendment, language attached each year to a funding bill for the Department of Health and Human Services which blocks government funding of abortions.

But the legislative language Capps proposed would allow use of federal money to pay for abortions if Congress ever stops its yearly renewal of the Hyde Amendment.

It's hard to know what will end up in the final plan Congress considers because the bills before the House of Representatives and Senate are still in flux. [The Plain Dealer, 8/17/09]

Los Angeles Times fact check also ignores effect of conservatives' proposal:

Would the government start paying for abortions?

That's unclear. Neither House nor Senate versions of the healthcare legislation contains any requirement that federal funding be made available for abortions. Claims that tax dollars will be used for abortions, as a television ad from the Family Research Council contends, are premature and somewhat misleading.

But the legislation is short on many details. Depending on how regulations are written, some women who got federally subsidized insurance might be able to buy plans that cover abortions.

Under the most popular Democratic proposals, millions of Americans would buy their insurance in a new, highly regulated marketplace in which private insurers and the government would offer a choice of health plans. Many of those people would qualify for federal aid to defray the cost of at least part of their premiums.

It appears unlikely that the government would require the plans in this marketplace to cover abortions. In fact, one version of the legislation explicitly prohibits such a requirement. But some private insurers in the exchange might cover abortion services. If a woman who received public subsidies for her coverage selected one of those plans, it could be argued that the government was helping to fund abortions. [Los Angeles Times, 8/10/09]

Alternative proposal forbids government funding for abortion but not ability of plans to offer abortion coverage

House committee has voted in favor of Capps amendment that forbids government funding. The House Energy and Commerce Committee agreed by a 30-28 vote to an amendment sponsored by Capps that prohibits "the expenditure of Federal funds" for abortions for which the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) cannot spend funds on. Currently, HHS is prohibited from spending funds on any abortions except in cases of danger to a pregnant woman's life or in cases of rape and incest under the Hyde Amendment.

Unlike Stupak-Pitts amendment, Capps amendment would allow people to purchase plan that covers abortion through exchange. The Capps amendment directs the agency overseeing the exchange to ensure that in every area of the country, there exists at least one exchange-participating plan that provides coverage for abortion and one plan that does not provide such coverage. It also requires plans that do cover abortion to ensure that "any affordability credits provided under subtitle C of title II are not used for purposes of paying for" abortions other than in cases of rape and incest and in cases where the pregnant woman's life is in danger.

Transcripts

From the August 12 broadcast of the CBS Evening News with Katie Couric:

ATTKISSON: But separating fact from fiction isn't always easy in a health care reform bill that's not finished. In fact, four different versions have been approved by congressional committees. We searched for answers among the three drafts available. On abortion --

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: What is your position on taxpayer-funded abortion, which will increase the death of preborn infants by 30 percent?

ATTKISSON: Would the government pay for abortion? That's unclear. Two of the bills don't address the question at all. Under one version, abortions would have to be available through at least one insurance plan. But Democrats say abortions would be paid for with the patient's premium, not federal money.

From the August 13 broadcast of ABC's World News with Charles Gibson:

GIBSON: And at the town hall meetings, the subject of abortion is often mentioned. Many questioners maintaining that reform would put the government in the business of paying for abortions. Well, are they right? As we continue fact checking the health-care battle, Kate Snow looks at the questions surrounding abortion.

[begin video clip]

SNOW: Senator Arlen Specter was asked about abortion at a town hall meeting this week.

SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (D-PA): Young lady, you have the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I do not want to pay on a health care plan that includes the right for a woman to kill her unborn baby. Is it true that this plan is in the health care bill?

SNOW: The basic question there: Is the right to abortion included in health care reform? The facts: The original bills in both the House and Senate never explicitly addressed the subject, but that doesn't mean it doesn't come up.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I'm referring to Section 1714 that talks about family planning services. All right? Starts on Page 769.

SNOW: He's not wrong. Section 1714 does talk about family planning for women on Medicaid. It will allow states to counsel or provide abortion, using state money. But could federal money be used toward abortion? That is the question that comes up most often at those town hall meetings.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I'm talking about taxpayer-funded abortion. We have to pay for it, OK, whether we agree with it or not.

SNOW: Will health care reform lead to taxpayer-funded abortions? Unclear. Current law states federal funds cannot be used for abortions except in the cases of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. But under health care reform, lower income Americans would have their health care subsidized by the government, and they will be allowed to pick a health plan that covers abortion. The president has said the government should not pay for it.

OBAMA: You know I'm pro-choice. But I think we also have a tradition of, in this town, historically, of not financing abortions as part of, you know, government-funded health care.

SNOW: One version of the House reform bill would allow health plans to cover abortions as long as they were paid for entirely with private funds. It might not be the easiest thing to regulate, keeping public and private money separate, but experts say it could work.

[end video clip]

SNOW: That version of the House bill may end up being the final version, but frankly, we just don't know yet. And, of course, the Senate is working on its own version. So, the bottom line is, we don't know yet if taxpayers could end up funding abortions. It is up to the members of Congress, Charlie, and the president.

GIBSON: All right, Kate Snow reporting, fact-checking again tonight.

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    • Author by proudconservative (August 28, 2009 9:50 pm ET)
      3 6
      Thank God!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by my4cents (August 28, 2009 10:50 pm ET)
      2  
      D- MI, R - PA looks like a (maybe needed) compromise on surface.
      Except, why is the government trying to regulate marriages and abortions?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by themidnightreview.com (August 30, 2009 12:26 pm ET)
           
        It is the easiest way to try to promote lifestyles the bill writers prefer.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by NoNannyNeeded (August 28, 2009 11:15 pm ET)
      2 8
      Congress is not going to say at this time because it's a hot button issue & they need all the support they can get right now. If it's a Democratic bill you can guarantee abortions will be covered. They don't want us to know what are really in these bills; if they did they wouldn't 1100 pages long. As long as we stay asleep & let them have their way everything is fine. But how dare we actually question them and examine what they are doing!

      Besides, why should an elective ab be covered under insurance? It is an elective procedure after...
      Report Abuse
    • Author by foghornleghorn (August 28, 2009 11:20 pm ET)
      6 1
      First there were death panels. Then reform would pull the plug on granny. Then we had death books. People were wondering, how much lower could the wingnuts go?

      Well, here it is folks. The RNC is inplying through a questionairre that reform would ration care against....Republicans!!!

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/28/gop-under-fire-for-hintin_n_271527.html
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 29, 2009 1:26 pm ET)
        2 1
        Unreal, Foghorn. Just when you think they can't get any more looney. Every item like this just adds to the reality that the GOP has a significant base of ignorant, gullible paranoids.

        For the record, I'm not opposed to health care coverage for Republicans. While I am personally, morally opposed to being a Republican, I understand that my personal ethics don't get to determine government policy.

        And I don't support coverage for Republicans only in extreme cases, such as rape, incest or the saving the life of the Republican (for example, if a voter were being held at gunpoint while being sodomized by his inbred brother in the voting booth and forced to vote Republican) but as a matter of choice for those who choose to vote Republican.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Leftym0m79 (August 29, 2009 11:09 am ET)
      6  
      What is your position on taxpayer-funded abortion, which will increase the death of preborn infants by 30 percent?


      Preborn? Can I start referring to myself as a premultimillionaire? It sounds just as ridiculous.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 29, 2009 1:28 pm ET)
        4  
        And where the hell are they getting the data that there would be 30% more abortions if they were covered ?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by fantagor (August 29, 2009 2:16 pm ET)
          8  
          In conservative loony land, more choice means people automatically take advantage of it. Like a buffet. If they put out 30% more food, people automatically eat 30% more. Here's a stat they NEVER discuss: if teen condom use went UP 30%, we'd possibly see a like drop in teen pregnancy and abortions, assuming the increase was among those having potentially procreative sex. The right bit*hes and complains about abortions, but they don't want to teach kids how to prevent a pregnancy WHEN they have sex, and they will.

          Randy
          Report Abuse
        • Author by bruce1ace (August 29, 2009 10:56 pm ET)
            2
          A few years ago I was listening to Ed Schultz and he said that if abortion was outlawed the total number of abortions would increase. I emailed the show and said that Ed must have misspoken and that the total number of abortions would certainly NOT increase if legal access disappeared.

          His producer emailed me back and said that Ed did not misspeak that is what he believes.

          To which I say I can't prevent Ed from believing complete nonsense I guess. Maybe he is getting his data the same place that 30% number came from.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Craig (August 30, 2009 12:38 pm ET)
            3  
            I don't know where Schultz got that. The latest I've seen is a study in the Lancet that found the abortion rates are not affected by legal status. Mortality sure is though.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (August 29, 2009 12:54 pm ET)
      2 2
      Set up an insurance program whereby people can choose to pay ad additional premium for Abortion coverage. Auto, Personal, Life insurance policies have add-ons that can be covered with additional premiums. Why not the insurance industry? Allow health insurance companies to operate across state lines.

      I'm amazed at the lack of coverage by MSM of John Mackey's (Whole Foods) proposals. There is some common sense solutions in an article that was published WSJ on August 12, 2009.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by blakester (August 29, 2009 1:19 pm ET)
        2 1
        What if an abortion procedure is the only way a woman's life could be saved? What if it is a medically necessary life-sustaining procedure along the lines of a heart bypass surgery or a brain stent?

        The reason this cannot be carried forward is because not all abortions are elective - why should a woman have to, or her family let her, die because of a political stand? Talk about letting an insurer or government make health care decisions for you!
        Report Abuse
        • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
            1
          They're not making decisions for you, in fact, they're choosing to give you something that you cannot pay for otherwise.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by oscar the grouch (August 29, 2009 6:56 pm ET)
          1 1
          There could be a way under a catastrophic clause to cover the rare circumstance that you address.

          People need to have a financial stake in some degree in whatever plan they are covered under. It puts some personal responsibility on the insured for spending $ more wisely. At the same time, we need to figure out a way to make insurance more "universal" and eliminate some of the "pre-existing condition" problems that exist. We can get life insurance, for example, that limits benefits for a certain period of time for certain conditions. We buy auto/home insurance with levels of deductibility that we are comfortable with, should not the same be possible with health insurance?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by NoNannyNeeded (August 30, 2009 3:16 am ET)
             
          There is certainly a big diference between an elective ab and a medically necessary ab. No too frequent you see health issues that would require an abortion it maintaim the health & safety of the woman. In the 44+million abs that have taken place, they have been elective procedures for convience sake. Many time the procedure itself causes a health issue such as depression or aniety. Many Post-ab patients go into depression, guilt, ect and there is no one realy there to help them with this and they now feel alone at a vulnerable time. No one forgets their baby's due date regardless of the circumstances.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 1:30 pm ET)
        1 2
        Great post. End employer-based coverage, and open the market. Do what you need to do to cover the broke and underinsured.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 29, 2009 2:07 pm ET)
          5 1
          Super duper. Then send your policies over to me. I'll get out the red pen and start deciding which procedures you should have covered according to my personal beliefs.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 3:28 pm ET)
            1 5
            You already do that, by electing Democrats. Nice try.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 29, 2009 3:35 pm ET)
              2 1
              Really ? I feel so powerful in your imaginary world.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 3:40 pm ET)
                1 4
                GOP reps are the consistently-regulating-and-requiring-insurers in Congress? News to me.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 3:45 pm ET)
                1 5
                Don't you really get it, btw? Yeah, there are a lot of wingnuts who oppose any gov intervention or social benefits, but I'm not one of them. I support an expansion of medicare (along with some much better governance) to cover uninsured and underinsured US citizens...but I'm not willing to accept that if you take away my ability to pay for healthcare how I wish.

                Have your expanded coverage for those who can't secure it for themselves, and allow me to have a market so open that I can choose a plan that will cover me how I want to be covered.

                And don't drop the dung about "oh well if private insurers can't compete"...they can't compete because they'll have to play by rules that the government plan doesn't, and there are already stipulations in the healthcare bills that don't allow me to remain on private coverage once I want to change from whatever my plan was when the bill goes into effect.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by my4cents (August 29, 2009 10:32 pm ET)
                     
                  Is there anything in the proposed bills that prevents you from getting the plan you want?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 30, 2009 2:46 am ET)
                    4 1
                    No, there isn't, my4cents. But once in a while I'm dopey enough to think one of these wingnuts wants to have a reality-based discussion, and then I realize they're still stuck on stoopid that was debunked 6 months ago.

                    I don't blame them, I blame myself.

                    Even the most unreliable right wing sources have retreated from the "private insurance will be outlawed" to a "they'll be legislated out of existence" position.(hence the "don't drop the dung..." pre-emptive).

                    Sorry, I try to be fair, and give the wingnuts a chance, but it always comes out the same.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 30, 2009 2:06 pm ET)
                      1 5
                      Except you mislead and lie when it's inconvenient to admit reality. I will NOT be able to have private plan access once I don't want or no longer have access to my current plan. Period.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by benjr (August 30, 2009 4:41 pm ET)
                           
                        can you show even one lie from harlan? And do you have any proof that you would not be able to have access to a private plan?
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Craig (August 30, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
                        3  
                        Says who?
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 30, 2009 2:05 pm ET)
                    1 4
                    Yes. Once I switch off what i currently have, I have to get it from the public option OR some sort of co-op. Foghorn is a liar.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Craig (August 30, 2009 5:33 pm ET)
                      2  
                      Not according to FactCheck.org:

                      No one "forced" onto federal plan. Obama said "[n]obody is going to force you to leave your health care plan." That's true enough. The legislation wouldn't require anyone to switch health insurance - though, in most cases, plans would eventually have to meet minimum benefit standards. The bills don't require anyone to join the federal plan. The House bill also has a provision that allows those who purchase their own insurance (those who don't get insurance through an employer) to keep their plan as long as they'd like, as long as the insurance company keeps offering it. Their policies wouldn't have to meet the new minimum benefits requirements that will be decided by the Health and Human Services secretary.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by DellDolly (August 31, 2009 12:33 pm ET)
                           
                        Crickets.

                        On this thread. But he went to another one and is saying the same thing apparently.
                        Report Abuse
        • Author by foghornleghorn (August 29, 2009 2:28 pm ET)
          6  
          open the market.

          Uh, in case you missed it, the market has always been open. The result is the disaster we call our over-priced, under-covered health insurance system.

          Try again.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 3:29 pm ET)
            1 5
            Wrong. The government has consistently and repeatedly required companies to cover this procedure, that procedure, inflating pricing for us who do not need as broad coverage as others and allowing states/themselves to restrict the geographical reach of insurers. Try again.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Craig (August 29, 2009 4:36 pm ET)
              5  
              What if you make a mistake about how much coverage you need? I know that works out just fine for the insurer, but not so much for you, or for society as a whole.

              There needs to be a minimum level of coverage that's fairly broad.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by dexteritas0071418 (August 29, 2009 4:43 pm ET)
                  5
                I think it's fine to require that some sort of catastrophic coverage is purchased, which I think gets a little lost in your term "minimum level".

                Presumably, if you're a healthy person and making enough money to support yourself, your insurance should cover catastrophic cases and things like cancer. More obscure things (and annual checkups) need not be mandatorily covered.

                If you think that someone who has elected to go the private route should still get the care they need regardless of the choices they make, then I would be fine with a law-mandated minimum of catastrophic insurance coverage for each individual, in order to not have to pay something into the government-program pot.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Craig (August 29, 2009 4:59 pm ET)
                  3  
                  What do you mean by "to not have to pay something into the government-program pot"? What's being debated is a public option.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by BillJ-MN (August 29, 2009 7:53 pm ET)
                  5  
                  Several European countries have private insurance providers with a public option. The insurance companies there have not been driven from the market.

                  The idea that a public option would drive out private insurance providers is a paranoid fantasy.
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by obamaisasocialist (August 29, 2009 2:31 pm ET)
      1 8
      Remind me again, what disease does an abortion cure. It seems to me there are only two choices.

      Either it is the taking of human life, in which case it should be banned.

      It is not the taking of human life, but simply a voluntary cosmetic treatment, in which case why the government funds?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 29, 2009 3:34 pm ET)
        5 1
        It seems to me there are only two choices

        That's fine.You're entitled to understand things as they "seem" to you. Other people aren't necessarily limited by your perceptions.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (August 29, 2009 7:34 pm ET)
        3 2
        The hyde amendment prevents the use of federal funds to pay for an abortion. Somehow this doesn't prevent today's wingnut from complaining about it happening.
        You don't happen to have anyother false choices you'd like to put out do you?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Adam42069GC (August 30, 2009 11:05 am ET)
        2 1
        Sorry but a FETUS is NOT a "Human Life"! A fetus is a "PARASITE"! I say that because as long as it needs the mother to "survive" it is only a parasite, NOT A HUMAN LIFE!!!
        There a LEGIT, MEDICAL REASONS that a woman would NEED to have an abortion to SAVE HER LIFE! ALSO if a doctor says that there is no way that the "baby" will not be able to survive outside of the womb because of some defect then that is another VALID MEDICAL REASON to have an abortion! Just like you "obamaisasocialist" you are a POSTER CHILD for abortions due to NEUROLOGICAL DEFECTS. Turn off Faux "News" and go to a LIBRARY! Try reading a book NOT "written" by a right wing fear monger!
        Report Abuse
      • Author by benjr (August 30, 2009 4:44 pm ET)
        1  
        Wow. A "voluntary cosmetic treatment"? By calling abortion a cosmetic treatment you minimize the extreme emotional cost that going through an abortion entails. How did you come to this point of view?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by SLRTX (August 29, 2009 6:58 pm ET)
      2 1
      Abortion is legal, so I think it should be covered.

      After all, we don't want the politicians getting between the patient and the doctor, right?

      If anyone says it's against god, well there's nothing in the bible that says an unborn fetus is a person, should be treated like a person, and should not be aborted. Sorry folks.

      If the argument is, "well it's elective, so it shouldn't be covered", then I guess we'll have to drop vasectomies too.

      It's legal. So it should be covered.

      By the way, if you pay a premium to a private ins co, then your money is being used to pay for someone's abortion, if that same ins co covers it. Sorry again.

      Just bursting all kinds of bubbles, aren't I?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (August 29, 2009 9:50 pm ET)
      4 3
      I don't think paying for a normal abortion out of one's pocket is going to drive anyone into bankrupcy. If it does, it will be because of other bad choices made in one's life, not the abortion.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 30, 2009 2:50 am ET)
        2 2
        But how do you feel about paying for pre-natal care, maternity costs, and adding another human onto the rolls, Oscar? Do you think that similar bad choices leading to these costs (amounting to several thousand times the cost of an abortion) should be shifted, under any health care plan, to those making the bad choices?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 30, 2009 8:15 am ET)
          2 4
          If Jack and Jill have sex and Jill gets pregnant. 1) How is that your or anyone elses fault? 2) why should the rest of us, paying into private or soon to be taxed for Government public option, have to pay for the abortion if so chosen? 3) If the child is not aborted, The child HAS THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO "LIFE" and should be covered under the insurance plan that Jack and Jill have obtained: Private, Active/Retired Military, Medicare (provided to the poor) or through one of the many 100% donation funded hospitals.
          The CONSTITUTION guaranties you the right to "LIFE", meaning you can't be persecuted or told what lifestyle to lead. IT DOES NOT mean you have the right to unlinmited medical treatment for survival, Government provided or otherwise. Nor does it mean to provide; food, car, house, money or job in order for you to live.
          To totally understand the CONSTITUTION, you have to look at the events that lead up to it's creation.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (August 30, 2009 2:05 pm ET)
            3 2
            >>The CONSTITUTION guaranties you the right to "LIFE", meaning you can't be persecuted or told what lifestyle to lead. IT DOES NOT mean you have the right to unlinmited medical treatment for survival,

            Using that logic, the road are also unconstitutional, as is eduction funding, etc. Likewise, medicare is also unconstitutional. No, the constitution does not guarantee health insurance, but it is a damn good idea that everyone have it. Keep in mine that other countries with single payer systems pay 1/2 of what the US pays, yet these countries still provide *better* care. The US is ranked 37th in the world in health care.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 31, 2009 7:03 am ET)
              3 1
              Resurect my grandfather and ask him how good Canada's insurance plan was. He served in the US military during WWII and later moved to CANADA.
              Actually, the interstate road system is CONSTITUTIONAL, as they where started during IKE's term, NOT FOR YOUR PLEASURE, but to help protect you.
              Education funding is a toss up.
              Medicare TAX should be unCONSTITUTIONAL, You do realize that this tax is paid by YOU and your employer. You each pay 50% for the cost of the premium in advance over your working career. This is supposed to be set aside for your retirement (if the Government hasn't spent it). Yet when you retire you still have to purchase supplements.
              I'd love to be able to PURCHASE my own insurance, but am turned down every time (I have the money to spend, they just don't want it). I do not want someone else telling me I have to do this plan or else. Your slowly chipping away at your FREEDOM of CHOICE.
              My point is close the loop holes that exhist in the current systems that are in place and costs will come down.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 30, 2009 8:32 am ET)
          2 4
          You want to cut medical costs, then close the loop holes that cause it to be high, For example:
          A friend of mine was medically discharged from the military after 3 years of service. He gets a pension check every month and military medical care as the military sevice caused his discharge in the early 70's. Three years ago he married a woman, whom had never spent one day with an active military service man. She now is entitled to his pension check if he dies. She also has a military ID card allowing her to go on Base. She also has FULL military medical benifits.
          Just think, YOU are now paying through your tax dollars to provide her medical care, that she DID NOT EARN. This drives up the cost to provide care for those that DID earn it. She is just ONE example of a loop hole in the government system.
          If she and a 30 year spouse of a deceased retired military service man, had to have the same operation to save their life and only ONE of them could be saved, Whom should get the procedure?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Col. Harlan Sanders (August 30, 2009 12:21 pm ET)
            2 2
            knob-ll, it looks like you're replying to me, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. It looks like you're saying a woman who married a member of the military doesn't deserve anything she hasn't earned, but a fetus has somehow earned more than that woman. Am I close?

            If it was just an excuse to do a wingnut freestyle rant with the word "Constitution" tossed around, that's ok too. I won't bother trying to make any sense of it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 31, 2009 7:16 am ET)
              2  
              By being born, You earned the right to "LIFE" under the CONSTITUTION.
              By using a loop hole in a government system, you cause a chain reaction that increases costs. (You didn't read the part of my post the she married him WELL after his active service).

              If I close my two businesses, sell the assets, blow the money and then get welfare, medicade for the poor, have another child, abort another one, collect food stamps, get free rent and live off the system. You would be OK with that? You would have no problem with it what so ever?
              Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (August 30, 2009 2:08 pm ET)
            2 1
            >>This drives up the cost to provide care f

            That is not true. The US pays twice per citizen as what other industrial countries pay (and we are ranked 37th in the world). Other countries provide health insurance for all. If other countries can provide health insurance for all and pay 1/2 what the US pays, then your assertion that providing government health care for people who have not "earned" it (as if you have to earn something so basic!) cannot be true.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by LittleFuzzy (August 30, 2009 2:52 pm ET)
            3 1
            Why does your hypothetical case include rationing health care?

            What if the widow was widowed for 30 years (married her husband six weeks before he was sent to Vietnam, where he died) and had two teenaged children?

            How did the woman in the case cited by you NOT earn her benefits? She was CHOSEN by the veteran to be his spouse and is entitled to the benefits by HIS choice. She obviously earned his love and trust.

            Did the veteran dump your sister? Are you upset that your sister didn't get those benefits? (apologies for the Glenn Beck style questions)
            Report Abuse
            • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 31, 2009 6:26 am ET)
              1 1
              yo obviously didn't read the part in my post about the 30 spouse of a deceased "RETIRED" Vet.
              And the woman in you slander with your responce CANNOT remarry or she will LOSE her benefits she EARNED as being his spouse for the 30yrs of his enlistment.
              The difference with my friends wife is, if he dies she gets the entire package for marrying him WELL after his service to this country.
              Nobody answered the question, Whom gets the procedure to save their life?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by kno-bll6010 (August 31, 2009 7:33 am ET)
                 
              What if the widow was widowed for 30 years (married her husband six weeks before he was sent to Vietnam, where he died) and had two teenaged children?


              The answer to your question is: They should be entitled to Military benefits. This was duirng ACTIVE service.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (August 30, 2009 9:54 am ET)
      2 4
      GOP proposal?

      mmfa's displeasure with the amendment does not make it a GOP proposal.

      It was sponsored by one democrat and one republican and in fact five democrats voted for the amendment.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (August 30, 2009 2:09 pm ET)
        2 1
        >>It was sponsored by one democrat and one republican and in fact five democrats voted for the amendment.

        Notwithstanding, if most of the GOP support it, it is a GOP proposal.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by shaggles (August 31, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
             
          I actually agree with Wes on this. The sponsorship is bi-partisan even if the support is primarily from the Reps.
          Report Abuse

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