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Beck, Hannity falsely claim IPCC's Latif has "pulled the rug out" from under climate change consensus

September 24, 2009 3:47 pm ET — 38 Comments

On their radio shows, both Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity seized on a World Climate Conference presentation on short-term natural climate variability by Mojib Latif, a prominent climate modeler, to suggest that, in Beck's words, Latif has "backed out now and said, 'We were wrong,' " about global warming because, according to Hannity, Latif stated that global temperatures are actually "cooling." In fact, Latif asserted that contrary to common "media" misperceptions of global warming as a "monotonic process" in which "each year is warmer than the preceding year," there are significant natural climate variations within the decadal timescale that do not change the "long-term warming trend."

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Beck, Hannity falsely suggested Latif's presentation damages case for action against climate change

Beck: "[O]ne of the leading guys for the IPCC" has "just backed out and said, 'I was wrong.' " On his radio show, Beck falsely asserted that "the biggest guy they had to the IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] has just backed out and said, 'I was wrong.' ... This is the leading climate modeling guy for the IPCC." Beck further claimed that Latif "has backed out now and said, 'We were wrong. We're going into 30 years of cooling right now.' " Contributing editor Pat Gray added: "[H]e says that he's conceded that the Earth has not warmed for nearly a decade and that we are likely entering one or even two decades or more during which temperatures cool. I mean -- and then you couple that with the sunspot report that you were just talking about, and it's madness what they're trying to shove down our throats." Gray concluded: "And so, they know there's very little time and they've got this Copenhagen thing coming up, and they thought they'd have it all wrapped up by now." [Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program, 9/22/09]

Hannity: Ally in "global warming hysterical movement" "pulled the rug out." On his radio program, Hannity stated that "one of Al Gore's most prominent allies in this global warming hysterical movement has just pulled off -- pulled the rug out from the former vice president and now says the world more likely faces decades of global cooling." Citing Latif's World Climate Conference presentation, Hannity said Latif "argued that the Earth has not warmed for nearly a decade, and that we are likely entering one or even two decades during which temperatures actually cool." Hannity later added: "The science is not unchallenged; it is challenged. And even leading environmental extremists that have been, you know -- you know, sending out these dire warnings, they're now contradicting themselves." [Premiere Radio Networks' and ABC Radio Networks' The Sean Hannity Show, 9/22/09]

Latif: There are "fluctuations" within years and decades, but clear "long-term warming trend" is "manmade"

Presentation addressed "decadal variability," noting "we all believe that this long-term warming trend ... is manmade." Latif opened his presentation by stating: "What you see here is just the globally averaged temperature during the 20th century. And you can clearly identify the long-term warming trend, and we all believe that this long-term warming trend is anthropogenic in nature, is manmade. However, you see also a lot of fluctuations superimposed on this trend, interannual, as Tim has pointed out, but also decadal scale variations." Latif went on to discuss the "mechanisms" of decadal variability and the potential for predicting climate at the decadal timescale. [UN World Climate Conference -- 3, 8/31/09]

Latif chart suggests temperatures are "cooling" in the short term, but that these temperatures are still indicative of a long-term warming trend. Additionally, the chart, shows the "cooling" period as coming following the hottest decade on record last century.

From Latif's World Climate Conference PowerPoint presentation:

Latif: "It may well happen that you enter a decade, or maybe even two ... when the temperature cools ... relative to the present level." Latif stated that due to natural climate variability over the decade-long timescale, "it may well happen that you enter a decade, or maybe even two, you know, when the temperature cools, all right, relative to the present level." Latif added: "And then, you know, I know what's going to happen. You know, I will get, you know, millions of phone calls, you know -- 'What's going on?' 'So is global warming disappearing, you know?' 'Have you lied on us, you know?' So, and, therefore, this is the reason why we need to address this decadal prediction issue." [UN World Climate Conference -- 3, 8/31/09]

Latif: Media mistakenly think of global warming as "a monotonic process," in which "each year is warmer than the preceding year." During his presentation, Latif stated: "All right, so, first point: Why decadal prediction? Now, people who know me, at least my German colleagues, know that I do a lot of media work, OK. There is almost no day in the year when I'm not called by some media person, OK. And so, they basically think about global warming as a kind of slowly evolving process and a monotonic process, OK -- so each year is warmer than the preceding year." He added: "However, we all know there is variability." [UN World Climate Conference -- 3, 8/31/09]

Latif: "[I]f my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global warming." Latif stated, "Everybody who knows me is aware of the fact that I am definitely not one of the skeptics, OK. And if my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global warming, all right." Latif then stated of decadal variability within the long-term warming trend, "[W]e have to ask the nasty questions ourselves, all right, or some other people will do it." [UN World Climate Conference -- 3, 8/31/09]

Greater natural variability in shorter-term modeling of climate than in longer-term trend

Latif: "[I]nternal variability" is "dominating uncertainty" on "interannual and decadal timescales." During his presentation, Latif stated, "If we look at the next 100 years, there are different uncertainties, OK. So AR-4, the last IPCC report, basically was the boundary force problem, so, it -- the uncertainty arose mostly from the scenario uncertainty and from the model bias, OK." Latif continued: "However, if you look at short lead times, right, then you see that the internal variability is really the dominating uncertainty in the climate change forecasts or, slash, projections. And especially on interannual and decadal timescales, this is true." Internal variability is defined as "climate variability not forced by external agents."

IPCC Report: "[N]atural climate variability" is larger factor on time scales of less than 50 years. In its Fourth Assessment Report, the IPCC concluded that "[m]ost of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations." The report further noted that "[d]ifficulties remain in reliably simulating and attributing observed temperature changes at smaller scales. On these scales, natural climate variability is relatively larger making it harder to distinguish changes expected due to external forcings." [IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report]

From the IPCC's Fourth Assessment Report:

UNDERSTANDING AND ATTRIBUTING CLIMATE CHANGE

Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations12. This is an advance since the TAR's [Third Assessment Report] conclusion that "most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations". Discernible human influences now extend to other aspects of climate, including ocean warming, continental-average temperatures, temperature extremes and wind patterns.

[...]

Difficulties remain in reliably simulating and attributing observed temperature changes at smaller scales. On these scales, natural climate variability is relatively larger making it harder to distinguish changes expected due to external forcings. Uncertainties in local forcings and feedbacks also make it difficult to estimate the contribution of greenhouse gas increases to observed small-scale temperature changes.

Vicky Pope, Met Office: "In many ways we know more about what will happen in the 2050s than next year." Vicky Pope, the head of Climate Change for Government at the U.K. Met Office Hadley Centre, has reportedly said that when predicting climate conditions over the next few years, "natural variability was as important as the long term warming trend." She further stated, "In many ways we know more about what will happen in the 2050s than next year." [The UK Daily Mail, 9/10/09]

Met Office: Climate shows "continued variability, but an underlying trend of warming in the previously steady long-term averages." The Met Office states: "In 1998 the world experienced the warmest year since records began. In the decade since, however, this high point has not been surpassed. Some have seized on this as evidence that global warming has stopped, or even that we have entered a period of 'global cooling'. This is far from the truth and climate scientists have, in fact, recognised that a temporary slowdown in warming is possible even under increasing levels of greenhouse gas emissions." [Met Office, accessed 9/22/09]

The Met Office further notes:

After three decades of warming caused by man-made greenhouse gas emissions, why would there suddenly be a period of relative temperature stability -- despite more greenhouse gases being emitted than ever before? This is because of what is known as internal climate variability. In the same way that our weather can be warm and sunny one day, cool and wet the next, so our climate naturally varies from year to year, and decade to decade.

Before the twentieth century, when man-made greenhouse gas emissions really took off, there was an underlying stability to global climate. The temperature varied from year to year, or decade to decade, but stayed within a certain range and averaged out to an approximately steady level.

In the twentieth century we have had continued variability, but an underlying trend of warming in the previously steady long-term averages. This is what we observed in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Now we have seen a decade of little change in the average global temperature -- but that doesn't mean climate change has stopped, it's just another part of natural variability.

Transcripts

From the September 22 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Glenn Beck Program:

BECK: The president is discussing climate change at the United Nations.

GRAY: Well, there's a big push on that right now because --

BECK: Oh, it's --

STU BURGUIERE (executive producer): -- they know they're in trouble on that, too.

BECK: Oh, the biggest --

BURGUIERE: They know they're in trouble.

BECK: -- the biggest guy they had to the IPCC --

GRAY: Yeah. Yeah.

BECK: -- has just backed out and said, "I was wrong."

PAT GRAY: I forget his name, but he now is predicting --

BECK: Stu will know it.

GRAY: He's been the leading -- he's their leading climate model guy.

BECK: Stu, the leading climate model guy -- the guy that has just backed out and said, "Yeah, sure, I was wrong."

GRAY: He's from Germany?

BURGUIERE: Do you have any more details than this?

BECK: Oh, you don't know this story?

BURGUIERE: Is this the sunspot one?

BECK: No, no.

GRAY: No, no, but that's good, too.

BECK: This is the leading climate modeling guy for the IPCC.

GRAY: I got -- I got his name here --

BECK: Get his name -- Stu will know it.

GRAY: -- in just a second.

BECK: And he has backed out now and said, "We were wrong. We're going into 30 years of cooling right now."

GRAY: At least.

BECK: Yeah, at least. And that's not -- that's not the sunspot guy. The sunspot is the other -- that the -- that the Earth is now in its cooling period because the sunspot activity. Do you remember we were with that sunspot guy --

BURGUIERE: Yeah.

BECK: -- and had dinner, and do you remember his look in his eyes? He was just was like, my life is over --

BURGUIERE: Yeah.

BECK: -- because I -- he's like, I'm the leading --

BURGUIERE: Astrophysicist.

BECK: -- astrophysicist. I'm one of the leading astrophysicists in the world, and he said I can't get tenure anywhere.

GRAY: Because he was saying it was sunspots.

BECK: Didn't he have a Nobel Prize coming his way or something -- he was up for a Nobel Prize?

BURGUIERE: I'm not sure about that, but he's at -- he's at Harvard.

GRAY: Well, you'd have to be crazy to say that the sun has something to do with the warming of this planet when you -- when we all know it's CO2.

BECK: He said to us -- this was like four years ago, five years ago -- he's like, it is sunspots, it is solar activity, that's what it is. And he said we're, in a few years, we're gonna go into a relative quiet period of the sun. He said and then it's over.

BURGUIERE: He did say that. That's amazing, you're right.

GRAY: It's Mojib Latif of Germany's Leibniz Institute.

BECK: Mojib Latif.

BURGUIERE: It's my favorite Latif --

GRAY: Mojib Latif.

BECK: You don't know him?

BURGUIERE: -- of the Latif brothers.

GRAY: You don't know him?

BECK: He's one of the leading guys for the IPCC.

GRAY: Big proponent. Yeah. Yeah.

BECK: And look him up, Stu. I'm surprised you didn't know him.

BURGUIERE: Off the top of my head the name kind of sounds familiar, but --

GRAY: He says -- he says that he's conceded that the Earth has not warmed for nearly a decade and that we are likely entering one or even two decades or more during which temperatures cool. I mean -- and then you couple that with the sunspot report that you were just talking about, and it's madness what they're trying to shove down our throats.

And so, they know there's very little time and they've got this Copenhagen thing coming up, and they thought they'd have it all wrapped up by now -- if they just had one more searing hot summer.

BECK: They're going to, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to, they're going to.

From the September 22 edition of ABC Radio Networks' The Sean Hannity Show:

HANNITY: As a matter of fact, one of Obama -- one of Al Gore's most prominent allies in this global warming hysterical movement has just pulled off -- pulled the rug out from the former vice president and now says the world more likely faces decades of global cooling. I guess Gore didn't see this little tidbit that was printed.

Professor Mojib Latif is one of the leading climate modelers in the world, and he's a recipient of several international climate study prizes, lead author of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. He's now contributed -- he's contributed over the years significantly to these reports that have stated unequivocally that manmade greenhouse emissions are causing the planet to warm dangerously.

Last week in Geneva at the UN's World Climate Conference, an annual gathering of the so-called scientific consensus on manmade global warming climate change -- oops. He argued that the Earth has not warmed for nearly a decade, and that we are likely entering one or even two decades during which temperatures actually cool. He pointed out that the Atlantic, particularly the North Atlantic, has been cooling in recent years, and it looks set to continue a cooling phase for 24 years.

[...]

HANNITY: The science is not unchallenged; it is challenged. And even leading environmental extremists that have been, you know -- you know, sending out these dire warnings, they're now contradicting themselves.

From Latif's August 31 presentation at the World Climate Conference -- 3:

LATIF: What you see here is just the globally averaged temperature during the 20th century. And you can clearly identify the long-term warming trend, and we all believe that this long-term warming trend is anthropogenic in nature, is manmade. However, you see also a lot of fluctuations superimposed on this trend, interannual, as Tim has pointed out, but also decadal scale variations.

For instance, from the '40s to the '70s, the temperatures dropped and some discussion was going on whether or not we are heading towards a new ice age. And most recently, in the recent decades, we had quite a strong increase in temperature. And now the discussion is basically going on whether this reflects some kind of acceleration of global warming.

Now, I have four points I would like to discuss. First of all, why decadal prediction? Second, the mechanisms of decadal variability. Third -- oops -- what is the potential? What is the decadal predictability potential? And finally, the challenges. What does it need to realize the decadal predictability potential that actually exists?

All right, so, first point: Why decadal prediction? Now, people who know me, at least my German colleagues, know that I do a lot of media work, OK. There is almost no day in the year when I'm not called by some media person, OK. And so, they basically think about global warming as a kind of slowly evolving process and a monotonic process, OK -- so each year is warmer than the preceding year.

However, we all know there is variability, OK, and this variability may look like this. This has been actually derived from the 20th century by just removing some exponential fit, and the two, of course, superimposed, OK, and then, the real evolution of the globally averaged temperatures would look like this. And then, you see right away, OK, it may well happen that you enter a decade, or maybe even two, you know, when the temperature cools, all right, relative to the present level, all right.

And then, you know, I know what's going to happen. You know, I will get, you know, millions of phone calls, you know -- "What's going on?" "So is global warming disappearing, you know?" "Have you lied on us, you know?" So, and, therefore, this is the reason why we need to address this decadal prediction issue.

[...]

LATIF: If we look at the next 100 years, there are different uncertainties, OK. So AR-4, the last IPCC report, basically was the boundary force problem, so, it -- the uncertainty arose mostly from the scenario uncertainty and from the model bias, OK. However, if you look at short lead times, right, then you see that the internal variability is really the dominating uncertainty in the climate change forecasts or, slash, projections. And especially on interannual and decadal timescales, this is true.

Now, however, we should also keep in mind that it may happen some unexpected events like volcanic eruptions or anomalous solar radiation, so there is another uncertainty, OK, however, which we probably cannot predict. ... We all believe that the long-term trend is anthropogenic in nature.

[...]

LATIF: Everybody who knows me is aware of the fact that I am definitely not one of the skeptics, OK. And if my name was not Mojib Latif, my name would be global warming, all right. However, you know, we have to ask the nasty questions ourselves, all right, or some other people will do it.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by all your eyes (September 24, 2009 3:52 pm ET)
         
      CO2 concentrations, and heat stored, in the oceans does not portend an end to global warming. We're just getting started, folks.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (September 24, 2009 3:56 pm ET)
      2  
      They know the sheep won't google and confirm. Many self-proclaimed "Reaganites" don't follow one of his sagest pieces of advice: "Trust & Verify"
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mk3872 (September 24, 2009 4:01 pm ET)
      3  
      LOL! Latif's data actually proves denier like Hannity & Beck WRONG!

      If these two buffoons are so sure of themselves, why don't they just phone up Latif and ask him themselves about whether he is "backing out" of his global warming scientific assertions?

      Oh, right, they won't because Hannity and Beck are LYING,
      Report Abuse
    • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 4:03 pm ET)
      2 7
      What does the left really want with all these conferences and think tankers and climate gurus that all get together and give speeches about global warming? I mean, with health care it's obvious they want health care for those who don't have it. Fine. With higher taxes they want programs funded that give the government more money to do stuff. Fine. With keeping Roe v Wade in place they want freedom of choice. Fine. And so on.

      But this?, is it awareness of climate change and how we should be more environmentally conscious, that is all good. Or is something more? What specifically is it?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by vhw28672478 (September 24, 2009 4:19 pm ET)
        2  
        Global warming is a facts
        Report Abuse
      • Author by MidWestThnkr (September 24, 2009 4:29 pm ET)
        4 1
        I, for one, would like to maintain a world that's livable for future generations. See, there's only this ONE planet. So yes, I'd like some awareness. I'd also like to see companies stop making profits by pumping their waste into the air and water. That means the rest of us pay (money or heath) for their polution.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 4:47 pm ET)
          3 7
          OK, we have had clean air and clean water laws in place for awhile now, could they be more strict? Perhaps, but that is a debate that could be waged on the cost/effect argument on it's own merits. I don't see where that is the crux of what the left wants here with global warming?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by vhw28672478 (September 24, 2009 5:17 pm ET)
               
            global warming is fact
            Report Abuse
          • Author by shaggles (September 24, 2009 5:43 pm ET)
            2 1
            Thumbs down for this? Really? Seems like a reasonable question to me. Stricter regulation to lessen the impact of humans on global warming is what I want but I can't speak for everybody on the left. Not sure what all the conferences are about except perhaps to combat all the misinformation out there.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 6:08 pm ET)
              2 3
              Thank you for answering. But do you know exactly the "stricter regulation" you are speaking of?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 6:12 pm ET)
                2 3
                I am not trying to be an a$$ here, I am just asking for specifics on where the debate is all headed. It seems to me that the entire debate is on whether or not there is really global warming, but it never gets beyond that. And I would just like to know what specifics the advocates want to see enacted, or made into some laws to aid their cause.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by shaggles (September 24, 2009 7:02 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Sorry for the copy & paste but these recommendations from Al Gore would be a good start:

                  -An immediate "carbon freeze" that would cap U.S. CO2 emissions at current levels, followed by a program to generate 90% reductions by 2050.
                  -Start a long-term tax shift to reduce payroll taxes and increase taxes on CO2 emissions.
                  -Put aside a portion of carbon tax revenues to help low-income people make the transition.
                  -Create a strong international treaty by working toward "de facto compliance with Kyoto" and moving up the start date for Kyoto's successor from 2012 to 2010.
                  -Implement a moratorium on construction of new coal-fired power plants that are not compatible with carbon capture and sequestration.
                  -Create an "ELECTRANET" -- a smart electricity grid that allows individuals and businesses to feed power back in at prevailing market rates.
                  -Raise CAFE standards.
                  -Set a date for a ban on incandescent light bulbs.
                  -Create "Connie Mae," a carbon-neutral mortgage association, to help defray the upfront costs of energy-efficient building.
                  -Have the SEC require disclosure of carbon emissions in corporate reporting, as a relevant "material risk."

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:12 pm ET)
                      2
                    These are ridiculous suggestions. First off, you should never quote Gore, as it makes you look like an idiot. Gore is a blowhard who doesn't even try to look like he is following his own advise to the world. His suggestions and his movement are merely a way for a has been to stay in the news. "Carbon" based recommendations are old-news, and have been dispelled by Latif himself. How can you continue to claim that carbon is the problem if the data shows natural ocsillation. His own slide, which highlights the "cooling period" is laughable. He now states that NAO is the cause of the temperature variation and has been for a decade. Then in that same slide he minimizes this admission by increasing the lenght of the x-axis. Good grief, your entire premise on why the last decade was warming (now discovered to be cooling) was dead wrong and you expect me to believe that you can accurately guess the future 100 years, and also tell me the cause. Good grief, it is natural variation, spoken well by your own prophet. Deal with it. You should be dancing in the streets, but instead you are mad that you are wrong. Find a new cause and go to work. Man-caused global warming is old news. Soon, you will be the "deniers".
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by TheDayV (September 25, 2009 12:03 pm ET)
                  3 1
                  No. It gets beyond that with morality. Regardless of whether or not there is global warming, pollution is the product of over-consumption. And over-consumption is immoral.

                  I remember Liddy once said that he commutes in a big diesel truck. That's immoral. But that's essentially what he's defending when he attacks climate change activists.

                  What Beck and Hannity are trying to do here is to tell their listeners that it's okay that they keep over-consuming because the science behind the impact of over-consumption is wrong.

                  Some might say that they're taking this position to discredit climate change activists and thus weaken the environmental political movement so as to allow manufacturers to continue with minimal regulations. But I would say that the industrial sector simply benefits from a political environment that these talking heads produce by telling their listeners what they want to hear; that it's okay to simply consume with no thought to the affect and that they don't have to make any effort to change the future. To put it even simpler; being ignorant and lazy is not only allowed, it's your right.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by shaggles (September 25, 2009 11:30 am ET)
              1  
              HA! So did I get a thumbs down for saying RightOn didn't deserve a thumbs down? Or for saying I wanted stricter regs? Or that there's a lot of misinformation out there? I guess it's OK to give a thumbs down to something you don't agree with but I usually reserve it for people who say something offensive.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:28 pm ET)
                1
              Please advise as how you are going to more strictly regulate the North Atlantic Oscillation. Also, how are you going to justify regulating carbon in the face of this evidence of a decade of cooling paralleling a decade of increased carbon emissions? By the way, most of the conferences are the source of misinformation. Anytime you restrict outside opinions, all you end up with is a mutual appreciation society.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by pete592 (September 24, 2009 5:51 pm ET)
            2  
            "I don't see where that is the crux of what the left wants here with global warming?"

            To avert global ecological disaster.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 6:04 pm ET)
              1 3
              Nobody wants that. But you're not answering the question. I asked for specifics.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by pete592 (September 24, 2009 6:20 pm ET)
                2  
                In fairness, you weren't really that specific with every reason you listed each time you said, "fine," so I followed suit. I admit to neglecting your request for specifics.

                Greater use of renewable energy, and less dependence on fossil fuels, with the ultimate goal of bringing our rate of carbon release back to within the rate at which the earth can readily absorb it.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 6:25 pm ET)
                  1 3
                  Fair enough. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I am not so much talking about the ultimate goals or the end results, because most reasonable people would agree with those, particularly the ones you have laid out "avert global ecological disaster" and "Greater use of renewable energy, and less dependence on fossil fuels, with the ultimate goal of bringing our rate of carbon release back to within the rate at which the earth can readily absorb it".

                  I am speaking of the path in getting there, the specific blueprint for achieving these goals.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by pete592 (September 24, 2009 6:33 pm ET)
                    3  
                    First you want the crux. Now you want the path and the blueprint. You're making my freakin' head hurt.

                    Looks like I picked the wrong week...
                    [http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/lloyd.jpg]
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by veliane (September 24, 2009 5:56 pm ET)
            2  
            I don't see where that is the crux of what the left wants here with global warming?


            Why do you think the left "wants" something? You think scientists all over the world are talking about the devastating effects of warming because they "want" something in particular? How about this, maybe they just want people to DO something about it. We can't just keep doing the same thing we've been doing and ignoring the ever growing piles of evidence that indicate that this is happening and it's happening because of us.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (September 24, 2009 5:55 pm ET)
        2 1
        Getting "health care for those who don't have it" is a simplification when we're trying to avert a social and economic disaster. Again, it's easy to "live in the now" because there isn't a "tidal wave of support" due to "people living the private health insurance nightmare." Those living the nightmare don't have the financial backing to buy politicians and influence governance like the insurance industry does. Other looming economic disasters such as the Great Depression and the more recent mortgage fallout did not have preceding "tidal waves" either. As the cost of health care increases at an astronomical rate, fewer employers offer coverage, and the cost consumes a greater and greater portion of the family budget, where do you think this is heading? How many more people have to "live the private health insurance nightmare" before it becomes a problem worth dealing with when viewed through conservative lenses?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (September 24, 2009 6:06 pm ET)
            1
          I only mentioned health care as an issue that the left has laid out what they want, or at least the tangible steps that are being advocated in order to achieve the goal of health insurance for all. With the global warming advocates I don't see that.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by peace4all (September 25, 2009 12:10 am ET)
            1  
            thats because golbal warming is a complex issue. the very name implies as to why it's complex. we as a nation can only do so much on our own. this problem is global so other countries are absolutly essential to makeing any plan work. that being said, other countries have there own interests and we have no real right to interfere, just like they have no right to interfere with us. therefore, all the meetings at the U.N are towards reaching the goal of consensus with a majority of countries that can enact regulations and internatioal laws that will require everyone to contribute. now, you can argue about the untimate power that the U.N will have in enforceing the rules enacted, but, at this point thats the best system we have. we can either do nothing or next to nothing or we can work to stop what most agree is the most serious issue faceing all of mankind in the decades to come. if we don't begin the process now, by the time we do get serious it will be too late and the future generations will look back at us and ask why we cared so little for them that we left the planet in such a mess when we had the power to at least begin to correct it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:14 pm ET)
                1
              Latif just stated we've been cooling for 10 years now. Quit calling it global warming. Also, quit acting like you can do anything about it. It is natural oscillation.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:24 pm ET)
                1
              China and India are the problem (as are the cows, but that is another story) and they laugh at the rest of the world. China is all about economic growth and the rest of us are powerless in the face of what pollution they are capable of.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by peace4all (September 25, 2009 3:34 pm ET)
                1  
                oh, i see, sho becuase china is still polluting we should just shrug and say ok, lets destroy the planet. your arguement makes no sense. as to the other part, there is still warming going on. it's not global cooling. the average temp is rising. yes some places are colling and some are warming. but it is the warming that causing the most problems. and i may as well break this to you as well. it has been proven that the world is round.
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      • Author by trelan1701 (September 25, 2009 12:26 am ET)
           
        The specific goal is to make green energy cheaper than fossil. There are several ways to do this. Make fossil more expensive via taxes and penalties. Provide subsidies for green tech (like they do for ethanol which turned out to be a dud so far but the whole "green" thing is a work in progress) to make is more affordable and easier to pay for itself.

        Also to attract investors to the green tech field which has been pretty successful so far. Sooner or later, some guy in a lab coat is going to make oil obsolete and a whole lot of problems will go "poof". Then we can let the Middle East finish self destructing in peace.
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    • Author by LarryE (September 24, 2009 5:26 pm ET)
      4 1
      So what we have here is a typical response by right-wing know-nothing blowhards when faced with a real scientist approaching an issue in a scientific way: See what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, understand what they want to understand precisely because they don't understand, they don't understand science or scientific process.

      Either that or they're just lying through their teeth. They're either ignoramuses or liars, if not both.

      It has long been a basic premise of climatology that you have to look at data in chunks of 30 years or more to discern overall trends precisely because of the short-term variability that is natural to, inherent in, the planet's climate.

      Latif said nothing new on that. It was, rather, that he had a different emphasis, suggesting that it's necessary to consider not only year-to-year variability but decade-to-decade variability and we need to do that expressly because of the media buffoons, pushed by the industry flaks behind them, who present global warming as a year-to-year event - so that if a new all-time record is not set every year, that "disproves" global warming.

      Right now, we are in a natural decade-level cooling phase sufficient to for a time conceal or even overcome the anthropogenic warming trend. The thing to remember is that this cooling phase is temporary and when a natural warming phase returns, it will combine with the anthropogenic warming to raise temperatures to new heights.

      And before anyone says it, yes, there would at some point be another natural cooling phase which could stall or for a time overcome the warming trend. But it would be doing it from a new, higher plateau. The overall trend is unaffected. The only way to stop it is to go after the anthropogenic warming.

      As a footnote, I suspect that another reason people like Beck and Hannity rail against the science is revealed in an email I got some time ago from an acquaintance who said that all the predictions talk about the really bad effects hitting in 50 years or more and she'd be dead by then so what did she care?

      So: Ridiculously ignorant of the science they would judge, liars, or incredibly selfish. Take your pick.
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      • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:21 pm ET)
          2
        But aren't you also ignoring the science? How can you be so sure that it will "raise temperatures to new heights"? We've been cooling for a decade - unbeknownst to you of course - and you've been calling it global warming, yet you seem so sure of your abilities to predict the temperature 50 years down the road. Please explain. It seems to me that you are "ridiculously ignorant of the science", and so "incredibliy selfish" as to continue down this path blindly ignoring the data. Natural ocsillation explains it. Take the forecast off of Latif's slide and see what you have. The whole premise of your arguement is "but wait until the warming comes back" - you couldn't measure it correctly in the past, the cooling doesn't correlate with carbon emissions, yet you naively suggest that none of this doesn't matter and that carbon will correlate in the future, when the natural warming occurs again. Even a broken clock is wrong 2 times a day.
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        • Author by LarryE (September 26, 2009 12:31 am ET)
          2  
          aren't you also ignoring the science

          No, I'm citing the science and the consensus of predictions of climatologists and other relevant experts.

          We've been cooling for a decade

          No, we haven't. Stop just parroting right-wing deceit and get a flipping clue. That whole "cooling for a decade" inanity is based completely and solely on the fact that 1998 was something of an outlier, and driven by an exceptionally strong El Nino, it set the all-time record for average world temperature. In 1999, temperatures dropped back to the levels on the late 1990s - and then climbed again so that despite the slight cooling of the past three years (not 10), the decade 2000-2009 will still rank as the warmest on record.

          As for new heights, I expect explaining it to you will be like trying to explain relativity to Mortimer Snerd, but let me try it this way. There are well-known, well-understood natural cycles of warming and cooling. In addition to that, there is now an additional, non-natural factor: anthropogenic, or human-created, warming, because in recent times our impact on the climate has become big enough to have a measurable effect.

          That human-driven warming is a constant upward pressure. The cooling phases can temper or even temporarily conceal that upward pressure, but it is still there. Put another way and admittedly oversimplifying because this is a comment board, not a climatology conference, because of that additional factor, during the cooling phases temperatures won't go down as much as they would otherwise and during the warming phases they will go up more than they would otherwise. So yes, over time, temperatures will increase. Not in a steady unbroken pattern and not without dips along the way, but overall, they will go up unless anthropogenic warming is addressed.

          Consider this number series, formed by a pattern of +3 -1 -1:

          1, 4, 3, 2, 5, 4, 3, 6, 5, 4, 7, ...

          You simply can't deny that the values gradually increase. But you are like someone who looks at that second 5, ignores everything else, and says "Aha! That is less than the number before it! Therefore, there is no upward trend!"

          But there is an upward trend. That is what the science, which despite your ignorant fantasies is quite well aware of natural variations, says. That is what Latif said. Your refusal to believe it does not change it while your refusal to face reality, multiplied by enough others, can have serious consequences for hundreds of millions of people in the not-distant future.

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    • Author by shaggles (September 24, 2009 5:30 pm ET)
      1  
      Hilarious. Once again they use someones words to claim exactly the opposite of what was said.
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      • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:23 pm ET)
          2
        Yes, I agree. Latif says it is the NAO and that we've been cooling for a decade yet some simpletons are claiming that it is still man-caused and carbon related. Hilarious.
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    • Author by pilotx (September 24, 2009 5:54 pm ET)
         
      Just like in the health care debate in climate change there will be monied interests that might lose some profit or have to pay to clean up their act so it is in their interests to pay non-science minded radio and tv hosts to support their positions. It's up to us to sift through the propaganda and actually listen to the experts and do what is necessary. This will get even more difficult if corporations are granted even more personhood status by the SC. Underfunded scientists and community based activists won't stand a chance.
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      • Author by rklindb (September 25, 2009 1:30 pm ET)
          2
        That same statement could be made about the global warming/climate change crowd. Al Gore is a perfect example - non-science minded, certainly not an expert.
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    • Author by newzhound (September 25, 2009 12:01 pm ET)
         
      Pull the rug!
      Pull the plug!
      Throw 'em under the bus!

      Pull the rug!
      Pull the plug!
      Throw 'em under the bus!

      &c.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by galileonardo (September 25, 2009 2:16 pm ET)
      1 2
      Great job burying the lead MMfA. So let me get this straight. Latif (among others in the AGW clique), one of the world's most prominent climate modelers and an IPCC report author, admits there has been cooling (a concept scoffed at in previous "cooling" stories by the MMfA AGW crowd), admits that the cooling will continue (ditto), admits that his decades-in-the-making models fail to account for major variables, and we are supposed to have faith in the alarmist ramblings of Latif and his Copenhacks? And he still wants to change his name to Global Warming. Notice the apologetic tone of his quotes? Almost like he's scared to face his peer inquisitors.

      Latif: "Hey guys. I'm still one of you. Promise. It's just...it's just that the, well, facts go counter to our mission to educate the public about how exactly the sky is falling...and um, our models didn't properly account for, you know, the climatic effects of minor things like the ocean and sun, and a trend that might last 30 years or so is insignificant (unlike what can be gleaned from the last 30 years). Let's call it 'decadal variability' and we should, um, introduce into the lexicon 'multi-decadal variability' and 'centurial variability' in case this goes on a long time. BUT, mark my words when this cooling does end, the warming will come back with a vengeance."

      Ridiculous.
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