Quick Fact: Beck advanced dubious claim that "[n]owhere in the Constitution can you find" authority for health reform legislation
During his Fox News show, Glenn Beck claimed that "[n]owhere in the Constitution can you find any of this" while he pointed to two stacks of paper representing the Senate and House health care bills. Contrary to Beck's suggestion that Congress does not have the authority to enact health care reform legislation and the implication that health reform is unconstitutional, numerous legal experts have disputed these claims, including University of California, Irvine law professor and Constitutional expert Erwin Chemerinsky, who explained that "there is no doubt that bills passed by House and Senate committees are constitutional."
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From the November 19 edition of Fox News' Glenn Beck:
BECK: You know what kills me is the people in Congress, they're sworn to protect and defend this. They write this, they've never read these, and I guarantee ya, they haven't read this either. Maybe they should. Because, this is not in this. Nowhere in the Constitution can you find any of this.
Fact: Chemerinsky explained that constitutionality of reform proposals supported by "unbroken line of precedents stretching back 70 years"
As Media Matters for America has previously noted, University of California, Irvine law professor and constitutional expert Erwin Chemerinsky explained in an October 23 Politico piece that, regarding the "authority to compel people to purchase health insurance or pay a tax or a fine," "Congress clearly could do this under its power pursuant to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution to regulate commerce among the states." From Chemerinsky's Politico piece:
Those opposing health care reform are increasingly relying on an argument that has no legal merit: that the health care reform legislation would be unconstitutional. There is, of course, much to debate about how to best reform America's health care system. But there is no doubt that bills passed by House and Senate committees are constitutional.
Some who object to the health care proposals claim that they are beyond the scope of congressional powers. Specifically, they argue that Congress lacks the authority to compel people to purchase health insurance or pay a tax or a fine.
Congress clearly could do this under its power pursuant to Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution to regulate commerce among the states. The Supreme Court has held that this includes authority to regulate activities that have a substantial effect on interstate commerce. In the area of economic activities, "substantial effect" can be found based on the cumulative impact of the activity across the country. For example, a few years ago, the Supreme Court held that Congress could use its commerce clause authority to prohibit individuals from cultivating and possessing small amounts of marijuana for personal medicinal use because marijuana is bought and sold in interstate commerce. [Politico 10/23/09]
Fact: Amar debunks arguments that reform violates Fifth Amendment
According to Slate.com's Timothy Noah, Yale law professor Akhil Reed Amar and Fordham Law School dean William Treanor debunked conservatives' argument that the individual mandate could be considered a "taking" in violation of the Fifth Amendment:
[A]ccording to Akhil Reed Amar, who teaches constitutional law at Yale, the case law does not support [Peter] Urbanowicz and [Dennis] Smith [both formerly of the Department of Health and Human Services]. "A taking is paradigmatically singling out an individual," Amar explains. The individual mandate (despite its name) applies to everybody. Also, "takings are paradigmatically about real property. They're about things." The individual mandate requires citizens to fork over not their houses or their automobiles but their money. Finally, Amar points out, the individual mandate does not result in the state taking something without providing compensation. The health insurance that citizens must purchase is compensation. In exchange for paying a premium, the insurer pledges (at least in theory) to pay some or all doctor and hospital bills should the need arise for medical treatment. The individual mandate isn't a taking, Amar argues. It's a tax.
But how can it be a tax if the money is turned over not to the government but to a private insurance company? William Treanor, dean of Fordham Law School and an expert on takings, repeated much of Amar's analysis to me (like Amar, he thinks a takings-based argument would never get anywhere), but instead of a tax he compared the individual mandate to the federal law mandating a minimum wage. Congress passes a law that says employers need to pay a certain minimum amount not to the government but to any person they hire. "The beneficiaries of that are private actors," Treanor explained. But it's allowed under the commerce clause. "Minimum wage law is constitutional." So, too, then, is the individual mandate.
Fact: Balkin debunks claim that Tenth Amendment prohibits reform
Responding to the arguments that health care reform violates the Tenth Amendment -- which reserves all power not delegated to the federal government to the states or the people -- Yale law professor Jack Balkin has noted that "the safeguards of federalism are political," not judicial, and that state governors do not have the power to nullify federal laws or "violate federal laws or interfere with federal employees."

















The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay Debts and provide for the common Defense and general WELFARE of the United States
Main Entry: 1wel·fare
Pronunciation: \ˈwel-ˌfer\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from the phrase wel faren to fare well
Date: 14th century
1 : the state of doing well especially in respect to good fortune, happiness, well-being, or prosperity <must look out for your own welfare>
2 a : aid in the form of money or necessities for those in need b : an agency or program through which such aid is distributed
Looks like It does allow Congress to have that power
The welfare of a nation is not defined by its real estate, but by the PEOPLE who occupy that land. You would defend the land but damn the people on it. In fact, congressional Republicans have already shown strong support for insuring land but not people. Woe is to they who aren't a parcel capable of withstanding a sign being stabbed into their gut by a Century 21 rep.
http://ourcommongood.blogspot.com/2009/10/gop-values-protecting-property-over.html
Randy
So I am thinking Beck was reading the GOP talking point memo, and just thought it was the Constitution. Then again I may be wrong and Beck is just mentally challenged when it come to reading.
It's time to revolt!
The nay sayers will say these were done to stimulate the economy, But in reality lets see what happens when these program end. Will car and home sales drop drastically??? Will people all of a sudden stop upgrading their homes? I think "NOT" to both.
I'll speak only for myself -- I don't believe the rich are doing wrong to the poor. I believe we've set up an economy that does wrong to the poor. I believe democracy does not mean "every man for himself."
Getting back to the point of my post, the Constitution isn't intended to spell out every single piece of legislation that might conceivably be proposed in our country.
The Framers purposefully created a Constitution that provided solid principles guaranteeing our rights, but they wanted actual governing to be done by the populace alive at any given time.
Huh??
Lets dismantle the Air Force, its not in the Constitution!
Come on, MMFA. Who are you going to believe? A law professor and Constitutional expert or an ex rodeo clown?
Beck is simply a clown and not a very good one.
1) The rationing of the N1H1 vaccine. Where is your outrage AGAINST Obama on this one? I can't wait for the Gov't to run our health care. If obama care passes, watch how many employees are laid off by the health care industry, due to outsourcing (probably to India)
2) Gramnisty chewing Eric Holder an new one. Holder's still mumbling gibberish.
3) Those of you who think that little weekly Obama check increase is an actual tax break. Note: only the tax table changed not the actual tax rate. If you are getting at the end of the year $250 more in pay, you will get $250 less on your return refund. It's just a disquise to hide the fact that you are only getting an advance on your 2009 tax refund, NOT actual tax relief.
4) The transparent $18 mil gov't web site, full of lies about where and how many jobs are created.
Where are you MMA?? OR does taking things out of context only apply to LIBS?
Re: tax cut. Wrong/Lying. A person with one job had $400 less withheld because they got a $400 credit. This was as intended, this was how it worked. The mistake that was made was that someone working TWO jobs had $400 less withheld at EACH job, even though they were only to receive a $400 credit. Thus they received more of a credit than they were supposed to, and that must be repaid. Similar logic applies to two person, two job households.
Re: voting lines. Of course people should know in advance where they will vote (knowing 4 years in advance is an exaggeration as people move and poll places change), but that's not the issue. If you have 4 voting booths for a precinct with 200 voters, and 2 voting booths for a precinct with 2000 voters, you will have long lines at the latter.
Check the IRS tax withholding booklets. It's an advance on you return. The tax rates did not change, only the amount witheld.
And does katrina ring a bell????
We're still waiting for you to admit it.
It was a tax cut. It means you'll owe less tax on the income you received this year if your income is under the ceiling.
They didn't permanently change the tax tables - they simply made it so everyone who earned under that ceiling will owe less taxes on the same amount of income.
So, still waiting for you to admit you were wrong.
Try to keep up. I know it's hard, but try. Or look like a fool. Your choice.
Tax rates were not permanently changed. It doesn't matter though. It was still a tax cut! It is a temporary change, but it is a cut in the amount of tax many of us will owe at the end of the year.
Even The Spectator acknowledged this months ago!
It's not an advance on a tax refund. It's a cut in the amount of taxes owed.
He's wrong. And everyone who believed him was wrong to do so. You need to not let yourselves be led by trolls.
You mean to tell me that you and most of the population didn't or don't know that we have a presidential election every four years, and that it is on the same day every time??????
You mean to tell me that you and most of the population didn't or don't know that we have a presidential election every four years, and that it is on the same day every time??????
What the hell are you talking about? That doesn't come close to answering my point. When state and county boards-of-election make discriminatory or just-plain-dumb assignments of voting booths not in proportion to voting population, you will get long lines.
BTW to others, apparently "Gramnisty" = Lindsay Graham + Amnesty.
And you want Gov't to run yuor health care??
Refunds are simply overpayments . . . if you get a "reduction" in your refund, it just means that you aren't overpaying your taxes as much as you were before. Bad financial planning on your part if you are getting a refund in the first place.
I don't think there are any immunologists posting on this board that actually know something about the manufacture of vaccines. So the ignorant(myself included) should maybe refrain from posting ill-informed opinions on this.
Maybe instead of constantly complaining about the government we should be thankful to live in a country that actually provides vaccines...for free. If we lived in the libertarian fantasy-land you seem to want, we might have the vaccine at the same time, but it would cost a small fortune given the supply and demand. And from a public health perspective it would be a complete disaster, since it would go first to the wealthiest, not the highest risk population.
It is quite silly to have to stand in a long line to vote. Do you enjoy doing it? Unfortunately if you live in a heavily populated area, that may be the only way you can vote. If you don't complain about it, how on Earth do you expect it to change? It happens more frequently than every "4 YEARS" - sometimes every year and in many places you only have from 6am to 8pm to find a time to vote on a single day. Why wouldn't you complain about that. These rules are setup by elected officials. If you don't complain, it will not get fixed. But perhaps you prefer these problems not get fixed because they overwhelmingly happen in large cities that are mostly "blue" areas.
Of course these are apples and oranges comparisons. Flu vaccine is different every year. It needs to be identified and successfully manufactured taking into account seasonal and viral variability and predictions of which strains will be successful. Election Day in many cases is only one day every other (and sometimes every) year. You only get one shot at voting. I can't blame someone for complaining about not being heard.
2. No idea what you're talking about.
3. This will come as a surprise to you, but there are many Americans who are in favor of paying taxes to support the well being of our society, in all manners: defense, health, infrastructure, etc.
4. Get well soon.
2. No idea what you're talking about."
1) And 35 millon people headed to the doctors office isn't going to slow things down. Please.
2) Are you in the dark or what????
2. Yes, I am in the dark -- when it comes to words like "gramnisty." I imagine that's a word Glen Beck invented.
But I'm happy to join in the fun. How's this? "Dorkbag."
The government is paying not telling doctors what to do like insurance companies do now. They regularly deny coverage saying to do cheaper procedures and provide cheaper medicines.
If you're getting your health care from an insurance company desk jockey I suggest you look into other plans.
In my case, the insurance industry has lost money, as I have only had to go to a doctor 6 time since 1995. 5 visits where to get my DOT physical. 1 time for 3 stitches and once for a scratch on the surface of my eye. All of whitch was paid for out of my pocket. Much cheaper than if I had monthly insurance premiums.
In my case I had health insurance--until getting laid off a couple of years ago. My fiancee and I currently have jobs where we do not qualify for health insurance and would have a hell of a time making payments on the premiums if we did.
We both got hit by the flu a few weeks ago. Being able to go to the doctor and get a prescription for Tamiflu would have been nice, but we couldn't afford it.
So, as you might have guessed, I'm pretty strongly in favor of having a government run health insurance option.
Giving OR FORCING????
One never knows when a bad illness might occur. Because of that, it's insane to choose to not have insurance. Too many people now do that, and then if they do get sick or injured and don't have health insurance or sufficient car, disability or homeowners insurance to cover their injuries/illnesses, they cost all of us in the end. And then there's the people who don't have a choice, and don't have health insurance, and they too cost us all!
If we ALL knew in advance if we'd need insurance or not, and need a lot of it or only need it in dribs and drabs, then only those people who could foretell the future and see a bad illness or injury would get insurance.
But no one can foretell the future, so your suggestion that it's okay to go without insurance based upon your anecdotal story is beyond ridiculous.
The fact that someone drove drunk a hundred times without getting caught and without having an accident doesn't mean it's a good idea. Playing Russian Roulette and surviving doesn't make playing it a good idea!
You are so right and it also makes for bad governmental policy. The insanity of these cons is beyond belief. This guy would benefit from the changes attempting to be made in healthcare. 1st. being that they(private insurers could no longer refuse to cover him)yet he refuses to support it because it will force him to have it,yet if he gets ill(maybe because of his pre-existing condition/heaven forbid)a hospital will be forced to treat him and guess who will be forced to pay for his care. So instead of taking responsibility for himself he places it on us, because he knows that no civilized society would deny him care just because he couldn't pay.
Health care reform would change that. You couldn't be rejected. Not by the government run plan. Not by private insurance companies.
I would think you'd be in favor of such a change.
I know you said you didn't want it, but I'll bet there are many people who share you situation. Aren't they being forced to go without?
No one is immortal. Get smart.
1) There is no rationing of the H1N1 vaccine. In fact, our local clinic for the at-risk patients has a surplus of over 500 doses. The outsourcing of our jobs took place in the LAST administration.
2) Who the hell is Gramnisty? I haven't seen Holder "mumbling gibberish." He was correct in his actions.
3) You are aware that if one is using good economic practice in the first place, there will be NO tax refund. A refund means that you have OVERPAID your taxes. Using your withholding as a means to "save" money is foolish. You are, in essence, giving the government your money to use INTEREST FREE for a year. Really, really bad point.
4) Based upon your other garbage posted . . . why bother on this one?
Does getting stuff wrong only apply to people who have no concept whatsoever what conservative or liberal political ideology means?
Go back to freerepublic where you got this nonsense . . . oh, and learn how to spell.
The tax cut included in the Financial Stimulus bill lowers one's tax bill by about $400 a year.
kno-bll doesn't know what he's talking about.
I would love to hear how you blame the H1N1 vaccine on Obama. Please show me the evidence.
"2)Gramnisty chewing Eric Holder an new one. Holder's still mumbling gibberish." - kno
You want MMFA to debunk your silly opinion? And you think MMFA is too partisan? Come on, get real. Give us some facts and evidence. Then maybe we can disupute or agree with your claims. This is a childish argument. This is like saying "W was dumb. Prove me wrong." Silly.
"3) Those of you who think that little weekly Obama check increase is an actual tax break. Note: only the tax table changed not the actual tax rate. If you are getting at the end of the year $250 more in pay, you will get $250 less on your return refund. It's just a disquise to hide the fact that you are only getting an advance on your 2009 tax refund, NOT actual tax relief." - kno
If you are counting on your refund every year, you are doing your taxes incorrectly. You need to change your withholding. You are giving the government (which you seem to fear) a tax free loan every year on the money you have already earned. This is for your own good. Change your withholding and invest your own money the way you want to. Do not give the government a tax free loan all year just because you are afraid you cannot save your own money.
"4) The transparent $18 mil gov't web site, full of lies about where and how many jobs are created." - kno
Again. Give us something to work with here. You seem to be the one mumbling gibberish now. Did Gramnisty do a number on you? Give me some facts or evidence and I may agree with some of your points. But, if you are just spouting the latest talking points that you have heard from Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh - don't waste our time.
""4) The transparent $18 mil gov't web site, full of lies about where and how many jobs are created." - kno"
Joe Bidden openly Admitted to it.
Some businesses sent in preliminary numbers for jobs created. The government tried to verify all those numbers and corrected what they could. But if a tiny percentage of job creation numbers aren't right, then it's the fault of the organizations that sent in those numbers - the govt can't be expected to personally verify every job and insure that no exaggerations occurred, or make sure that no job was already planned and the paycheck simply went to the boss as an extra bonus!
Here's a link to Joe Biden's quote about jobs creation - I guess that this is what know-nothing is referencing, since, like so many rightwingers here, he didn't provide a link, and simply threw out a baseless accusation.
Vice President Joe Biden said, "This is an unprecedented undertaking. And we know — we know that it's not 100 percent accurate."
Him saying that the process is NOT perfect is NOT anywhere close to your assertion that it's full of lies. Their job creation estimates have always been lower than the actual jobs created - it's only the ones reported and it doesn't really talk about all the jobs that were saved by the stimulus keeping us from going into a Depression, either.
Like so many rightwingers before you, you don't have a leg to stand on in the arguments you've presented here.
The States, which were free and independent of each other, created the Federal government to do certain tasks, and delegated powers to accomplish those tasks. They wrote the Constitution which spelled out what those tasks are. That list is in Article I, Section 8, which lists Congress' powers. Despite the widespread belief that Congress could only exercise those powers, there still were some concerns that it wasn't clear enough. So in order to get the States to ratify the Constitution, a Bill of Rights was promised to be approved after ratification.
Besides including specific rights, it also included two amendments(9th and 10th) that clearly stated that Congress has limited powers, and only those in Art I, Sec 8. No where does it allow heath care laws. The interstate commerce clause was only meant to ensure free and open trade between the states- NOT to ban or regulate what people have and can do.
Beck is right, since he has history and facts on his side.
<end sarcasm>
This is settled law. You're wrong about this, and so is Beck. Neither one of you has history or facts on your side.
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Helvering v. Davis (1937)
Quick Quiz: What part of the constitution allows congress to require a territory change religion to join the union?
What provision of the constitution prohibits a state from secession?
Thank you for abandoning your constitutionality argument. Now you just want government to do stuff that works. Welcome to the team. It would help our morale a little if you would admit that we've just blown you away, though.
Medicare has much better control over skyrocketing health care costs than private insurance. Medicare has much lower administrative costs than private insurance. Medicare kicks the crap out of private insurance in every conceivable way, and it does so while covering the most challenging segment of the population. Medicare can be improved, of course, but so can anything else.
The way you demand more from the government than you do from private enterprise makes me think you must be some kind of closet socialist. You seem to instinctively think that only the government is capable of true greatness.
You'd have a hard time convincing my parents that Medicare doesn't work.
And that's the very reason why the Republican plan is ONLY a joke and the Democratic plan will actually work, but our plan does that, despite your assertion that it won't be any different.
Despite the lack of comprehension among the liberals who have responded to you, I understand exactly your point. It's not that providing health care is unconstitutional, it's that nowhere in the constitution is it a citizen's right to be provided with health care.
But you're wrong that providing healthcare isn't covered by language in the Constitution. Many decades ago, and for multiple decisions since that time, the US Supreme Court has determined that these kinds of programs are covered by language in the Constitution.
I don't know how you can 'understand his point' since he doesn't have one. It's not unconstitutional to provide these services. The branch of our government tasked with figuring out what's allowed or disallowed by the Constitution has said that this kind of program is covered.
It's constitutionally-allowed. It's constitutional. It's not the opposite.
And what everyone sees again is that when you don't have a true refutation of what someone else has said, you have to throw out a personal attack. It hurts your credibility, not mine, but you just can't stop yourself, and the fact that you can't resist that urge also hurts your credibility.
And here's a clue - hurting your own credibility isn't a good thing.
Being able to drive is a constitutional right given to us by the 10th amendment. It's not specifically IN the Constitution, however.
My god Sue, you need to get back on meds or something. That is the wildest, most off the rail statement you have ever made around here, and there have been some whoppers. LOL!!!
It gives rights to the states, like the right to allow state citizens to drive.
There is no right to drive in the Constitution. What's in the Constitution is the right to control that given to the states.
Why would you want to prove to everyone that you can't understand a simple concept like this? You look like such a fool when you do it, and then you top it off with a personal attack accusing me of being some old foe that I'm not when you're clearly another poster with a different screen name yourself!
It's your posts that are showing everyone that you've lost touch with reality.
"Being able to drive is a constitutional right given to us by the 10th amendment", by DellDolly 1 hr and 34 minutes ago.
"There is no right to drive in the Constitution", by DellDolly 32 minutes ago.
Keep posting, you never fail to entertain. HA!
The right to drive is something that cannot be denied to us by the Constitution - that right is given to us by the 10th amendment.
That amendment doesn't give us any SPECIFIC rights, like the right to drive. It gives us many rights, but doesn't do so EXPLICITLY.
This is not rocket science, you know.
The 10th amendment gives the states the right to give us the right to drive. So, what I said is exactly true and proper.
Oh, but I forgot - you've gone for the weekend now.
The "right" to drive is not a "right" it is a priveledge. There is a pretty big difference.
"So Shaggles "The Constitution Man", tell us where we could find this claim, that this is constitutional?"
He's challenging Shaggles to prove that it's not unconstitutional!
We need some reform or something done, maybe these health care bills are the way to go. I just don't trust government to do it. Those putting out all these numbers now will be long gone when the realities of those costs, always underestimated, are there.
Then where do we go to fix it?
How the heck do you compare driving a car on the same level of someone with a castrophic illness. That is just STUPID, but I'd be interested in your answer to this issue raised on FDL.com:
"...Suppose you lived in a country whose health care system had become so dysfunctional, wasteful and inhumane that almost everyone with any sense realized it required fundamental reform. Everyone conceded that it cost from 50 to 100 percent more per person than comparable countries, yet if was producing no better and often worse health outcomes. They knew it was gobbling up the federal budget and capturing its GDP at a frightening, unsustainable pace. In addition it left at least 47 million uninsured, millions more underinsured and still more fraudulently insured, forced millions into bankruptcy, while too often treating those it presumably “cared” for in an uncaring, negligent, even reckless and sometimes criminal manner. How would you fix it? Where would you even begin?"
I was responding to Dolly after I said there was a big difference between something being unconstitutional and it being a constitutional right, when she then replied "No, there's not really any difference between the two - either it's allowed by the Constitution, and therefore constitutional, or it's not allowed by the Constitution". To which I asked about driving a car, which is neither one. It is a privilege. And then she answered with some flat out lunacy about the 10th amendment.
You two belong together.
I was on the opposite side of this argument 15 years ago. I argued that Hillary was full of it and the only way to control costs was to let the private insurers do it. Well, they have failed miserably and have shown no inclination to do anything but get worse. They had their chance. Now, I am inclined to let the other side have their say. I like to think I learn from my mistakes. I only hope the same can still be said for us as a country.
Many of our Founders, especialy Madison and Jefferson, were worried that future generations would interpret the general welfare clause and necessary and proper clauses to broadly. The necessary and proper clause was meant to be 'redundant' in the words of Hamilton in the Federalist Papers. It was only meant to strenghten and concretize the powers specifically enumerated in Article 1 Section 8.
Here is a clarifying quote from Jefferson:
" To lay taxes to provide for the general welfare of the U.S." that is to say " to lay taxes for the purpose of providing the general welfare." For the laying of taxes is the power and the general welfare the purpose for which the power is to be exercised. They are not to lay taxes ad libitum for any purpose they please (emphasis Jefferson's) ; but only to pay the debts or provide for the general welfare of the Union. In like manner they are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase, not as describing the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please, which might ge good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless.
It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase , that of instituting a Congress with powers to do whatever would be 'good' for the U.S. and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would also be a power to do whatever evil they pleased. It is an established rule of construction, where a phrase will bear either of two meanings, to give it that which will allow some meaning to other parts of the instrument, and not that which would render all others useless. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers, and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.
Can he have been more clear? There are numerous other quotes similar to this one from other Fouders. This understanding of the general welfare clause was the common understanding of the Founders. Leftist historians and academics are very well aware of what the Founders meant by general welfare and necessary and proper. Many of these same people hold the classically liberal (not to be confused with state-worshipping modern liberals) ideas of the Founders in contempt. The real Constitution, as opposed to the shadow constitution under which we currently operate, checks the ambitions of the planners and statists.
Why should any of us be surprised that a federal government which has been given the monopoly power of interpreting the Constituiton would inevitably interpret it in a way which allows it to accumulate and concentrate power? So predictable...
Allowing the government to force ALL Americans to purchase health insurance by including healthcare into the "general welfare of the United States" clause is a pretty liberal interpretation, (that I dont accept) but lets run with it. Based upon that liberal logic, what would stop the government from requiring all Americans to have cell phones (safety purposes would fall under general welfare), to use GPS in our vehicles (again, for safety), to subscribe to a local newspaper (educational purposes would fall under general welfare), to join a gym (a healthy citizenry would fall under general welfare).
I'm just sayin' let them have this and you'll let them run the rest of your life too.
If you think the courts don't take the constitution into account when ruling something as being constitutional, then you have a bigger fish to fry than health care legislation.
It's not a bogus claim.
No one said either that it was "lack of healthcare reform" either.
They said that it was the lack of insurance that healthcare reform will remedy that caused those deaths.
And studies have identified tens of thousands of people each year who die because they lacked health insurance.
Every human is going to die, eventually. Tens of thousands of Americans die earlier than they would have because they didn't have health insurance.
This is not rocket science.
AMY GOODMAN: What’s happening?
HILDA SARKISYAN: Well, we miss her. We don’t have our beautiful daughter with us anymore. And CIGNA is doing this every day, every day. And that’s why I’m out there to help other families to stop them. It’s not only CIGNA; it’s all the insurance industry, that they are placing profit before patient, and it’s not right. And they are enforcing the care of people, not their—you know, they should not enforce the care of the people to their deep pockets. It’s all about their pocket, all about the CEO, how much he makes. I miss my daughter. I had a beautiful, perfect daughter. I don’t have her anymore. I don’t.
AMY GOODMAN: Hilda, describe what happened to your daughter.
HILDA SARKISYAN: Well, we had insurance. We were covered. We thought we had insurance. So it’s like having insurance and not having insurance is the same thing. People who have insurance and don’t have it, they get the same care. But having insurance and knowing that you do have it, and you are recommended to a certain hospital, because the insurance company only pays if you go to that hospital, you go to that hospital, which in our case was UCLA. We were transferred there. By the way, that’s our fourth hospital within, I would say, three years, because they were jumping us around. And finally, you go there. My son gave her the perfect bone marrow transplant, perfect match. And my daughter needed a liver transplant. And so many requests, so many requests, and they were—the doctors were denied. We were denied, until the California Nurses Association stepped in, helped us out.
We had to get out and go to their headquarters in Glendale, make a scene with our family, the Armenian Youth Federation, our church. Why do we have to do that? I’m a mother who should have been next to my daughter. Only if I knew she was going to die that same day, you think I would have that energy to go out there and do that? I could have been holding my daughter’s hand and praying with her. This is not right.
We need a better change in this country, and I’m willing to help the President to do that. And I just want to meet him. That’s all I want to do. I want to meet him. I want him to feel how it feels not to have a daughter. He has two girls; he should know.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/9/californias_real_death_panels_data_reveals
Is not a word.
If you didn't know that, why should anyone try and debate you about something this important?
Randy
Article 1 Section 8 makes specific references to collecting taxes to support a navy, a militia, a post office--but nothing about an Air Force. Or a Space Program. Or a Central Intelligence Agency. Are you going to argue against the United States having those things because Jefferson and Madison never mentioned them?
Your argument is long ago dated. The United States has been funding all kinds of programs not specifically mentioned in Article 1 Section 8 for over 200 years--and time and time again it's been ruled that the government has the Constitutional power to do so.
Come back when you're ready to share some 21st Century thoughts. These 18th Century ideas get you nowhere.
What I do see are a lot of ludicrous interpretations about what the various health care bills have and have not said. How odd. The Constitution, with its broad wording, is seen by some as being a very narrow document. The health care bills, with their very specific language, inspires so many to start speculating about death panels and mandatory abortion fees.
I haven't read the bills, but allegedly they include provisions to compel people to buy insurance. I don't see anything in the Constitution which empowers the Federal government to do that to everyone. Agreed, if they bought insurance, they and the companies they bought it from could probably be brought under the commerce clause and would be subject to Federal regulation. But not everyone buys insurance, and indeed not everyone is active commercially.
Congress could certainly levy a tax to pay people's medical costs or support insurance companies, but the payments to insurance companies are not a tax.
Let us know when you become a Constitutional scholar, and we'll take your opinion into account on that topic.
And if you aren't a Constitutional scholar, and haven't even read the freakin' bill, then why on earth are you trying to inform us on this topic? I swear....
you make a good point...would it not be simpler to tax emplyer what employers for our insurance now, hand that over to consumers and allow them to buy health care from anyone?
Every one is covered, and since you need not ever change companies, you dont worry about preexisting conditions (by the way as a rule if you have had continuous coverage, all but the most basic plans dont bar preexisting conditions).
awww...but that is not washington centered socialism
It is when the government tries to make private parties, profit-making insurance companies, the beneficiaries of compelled payments that the problems arise.
But now that the slaves of our society (the working poor) might have a chance at healthcare without the string of employment attached (which does them no good anyway), now your ilk is barking up a storm.
Please stop cloaking your opposition in constitutional hair splitting. You're mostly POed that some have-nots with have a little more than not. Another right wing toot, aloft on wings of free market nonsense, as usual.
Randy
Again no knowledge of insurance. ALL insurance bars preexisting conditions. You buy a house with a bad roof and buy insurance,your house gets wet...you will get denied for prior damage. Your car is rusty and you get hit in the door; your insurance is likely to pay for a used door and let you pay for paint-- prior damage (and they provide a used door for a used door).
This is not, has not, will not be about "Government Run Health Care." That term is, was, and continues to be a favorite of those who are comfortably nestled in the hip pockets of a select few who wish to maintain a system that has increased their political and financial power. They have screamed, "Be Afraid!" very loudly hoping to drown out reasonable debate, but have yet to provide any proof that the efforts to provide a service that would offer greater access to the finest medical system the world has to offer would, in any way, expand the powers of the United States Government.
If I'm wrong--prove it. Show me the actual language in any of the actual bills that actually gives the government a power beyond the regulation and oversight duties the Constitution of the United States has already assigned. No wild speculation about "Death Panels." No absolute nonsense about "Mandatory Abortion." Nothing about what "might" happen from the noisemakers who are making a profit by fanning fear. I'm willing to listen. If you find something that clearly shows an overstep, I'll be writing my Representative and Senators and asking them to take action.
But do not come in here with weak arguments such as, "ALL insurance bars preexisting conditions." Ummm, no, they do not. There are certain policies you cannot purchase for your property or automobile. There are circumstances where you are only eligible for high risk coverage. There are reasonable reasons to deny a car or home owner certain claims due to their own fault, abuse, or neglect. Tell me, what's reasonable about denying coverage to a woman that's been raped? What's reasonable about denying coverage to an infant that's considered obese? Yes, auto and home insurance providers can certainly choose to not sell and cancel policies to certain individuals, but they are contractually obligated to honor the legal terms of your policy for as long as you're making the payments. Requiring three estimates on the cost of a fender repair is a long, long way from cutting off someone's chemotherapy because it's just too darned expensive.
Say it with me again; "Government Run Public Insurance Option." The United States of America offering a service to its citizens that will assist them during times of unexpected crisis.
Just how is that a bad thing?
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
I'll also assume you, like me, interpret the term "general welfare" broadly.
I thank you for your support.
During the last campaign Obama said he believed that with a country as rich as ours it healthcare should be a right. He never said constitutional right. A constituional right is one the governemtn cannot interfere with by making laws...such as infringing upon free speech, etc.
It's all there. This is what the powers of the constitution were written for.
Some of the comments here seem to indicate an opinion that the Constitution doesn't really mean anything, which is curious since that idea seems rather characteristic of people like George W. Bush, who normally wouldn't be taken as a model around here.
I find myself in the curious position of having to agree with Beck as to the evidence and arguments thus far offered. Beck may be a fool, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Let us know when you become a Constitutional scholar, and we'll take your opinion into account on that topic.
And if you aren't a Constitutional scholar, and haven't even read the freakin' bill, then why on earth are you trying to inform us on this topic? I swear....
http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/20/fdl-book-salon-welcomes-maggie-mahar-money-driven-medicine-the-real-reason-health-care-costs-so-much/
"...The book has been made into a film, produced by Alex Gibney (best known for Taxi to the Dark Side and Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room) and featured on Bill Moyer’s Journal. Viewers can see a streaming video of the entire film, here."
http://www.moneydrivenmedicine.org/watch-in/watch-now
As for the 1000-page bill, I am going by reports of it, just like you and everyone else on this web site. Everyone seems to agree that the bill compels people to buy insurance from private parties. I see nothing in the Constitution's provision of Federal powers which comes near covering this. However, the idea has been advanced in the comments here, as it has by such as Alberto Gonzales, that the Constitution is a piece of 18th-century wastepaper and can be made to mean anything those who happen to be in power want it to mean; maybe that's what the article at the top should have said. Are you sure that's a good idea, though?
To you, an elite is someone with a huge pile of money, who by definition is therefore better than the rest of us and gets to do anything they want.
To us, an elite is someone who's devoted their life to careful study of a subject that some armchair weenie decided to gas two thoughts about one afternoon.
A constitutional scholar's thoughts on any constitutional subject are better than yours (and mine). Even if the scholar agrees with you in the conclusion, their thoughts are better than yours. It's because they had your thoughts years ago, and then advanced beyond them.
But they know that they're frustrated by too much reading, so they react to that big pile of paper.
It's fearmongering at its worst, since there's really nothing whatsoever to fear from a big pile of paper.