In LA video, O'Keefe and Giles expose their own dishonesty
In making public a video he withheld for more than two months, right-wing activist James O'Keefe finally acknowledged that a Los Angeles ACORN employee "would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities" -- an admission that directly contradicts claims by his colleague Hannah Giles that no ACORN employees refused to help them. Moreover, O'Keefe's claim in the video that the Los Angeles employee was the "only" ACORN employee who refused to help is contradicted by the fact that ACORN employees in two other cities contacted the police following their encounters with O'Keefe and Giles.
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ACORN employee refused to assist in obtaining house for "illegal activities"
O'Keefe: LA worker "was the only ACORN employee ... who would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities." In a video released November 16 -- more than two months after Andrew Breitbart's BigGovernment.com website began posting videos in which O'Keefe and Giles posed as a pimp and prostitute in ACORN offices -- O'Keefe states that a Los Angeles ACORN worker identified as Felix Harris "was the only ACORN employee in our nationwide investigation who would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities." O'Keefe states during the video that his interaction with the worker occurred on "August 17, 2009."
O'Keefe's admission directly contradicts Giles' claims
Giles previously answered "No" to the question: "[Y]ou didn't go into one office, and they said, 'We're not going to help you do anything like that?' " On the September 16 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Sean Hannity interviewed Giles and Breitbart. During the interview, Hannity asked Giles: "[W]hen you go to Baltimore and D.C. and New York and San Bernardino and San Diego, and this all happened, were there any cities you went to where you just didn't get any videotape not worthy to air?" Giles replied: "We're airing it. It's pretty worthy. Everyone seems to think -- ." Hannity then asked: "In other words, you didn't go into one office, and they said, 'We're not going to help you do anything like that?' " Giles responded, "No."
Breitbart didn't disclose LA tape when asked whether "every" ACORN office visited "helped you or were willing to help you." Following Giles' denial, Hannity said during the September 16 interview, "Not one? Every place you went, they helped you or were willing to help you, either -- not report you for an underage prostitution ring, evade taxes as we've -- ." Rather than acknowledge what happened in Los Angeles, Breitbart responded, "Right. It is interesting. There's no place, as ACORN tried to state, that kicked them out based upon the premise that they were doing something nefarious."
Giles previously answered "no" to question: "[Y]ou are saying that there were some [ACORN employees] that did refuse?" Appearing on the September 13 edition of Fox News' America's News HQ, Giles stated: "[A]bout the whole kicking out, I mean, the women in Baltimore hugged me and -- when I left. And the women in D.C. -- I did follow-up phone calls, and they asked if I could come and meet them for coffee so we could further discuss how to make this possible." Fox News senior correspondent Eric Shawn then asked, "[Y]ou are saying that there were some that did refuse? James or Hannah?" Giles responded, "Not -- no."
Flynn previously claimed: "[I]t's everywhere [O'Keefe] went." According to a September 16 article on the conservative website Human Events, Mike Flynn, the editor-in-chief of BigGovernment.com, said in an exclusive interview: "It's not even just one random employee, it's so comprehensive, it's everywhere [O'Keefe] went. What shocks me is when you watch the videos, they don't even flinch."
O'Keefe dodged questions about whether ACORN employees refused to help
O'Keefe didn't disclose LA tape when asked whether any ACORN employees "were not willing to cooperate." During the September 13 edition of Fox News' America's News HQ, Shawn asked, "Were there some that refused your offers, that actually did not -- were not willing to cooperate?" But rather than acknowledge at the time what happened in Los Angeles, O'Keefe responded:
O'KEEFE: No -- in none of the facil -- [laughs] none of the facilities kicked us out. That's a lie.
O'Keefe waited more than two months after this exchange to acknowledge that Harris "would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities."
In September, Fox's Chris Wallace reported that O'Keefe "says he'll release all the tapes soon to show if any ACORN offices did the right thing." On the September 27 edition of Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace reported that "O'Keefe wants to set the record straight" and aired the following:
WALLACE: O'Keefe wants to set the record straight. He denies reports on left-wing blogs he got any money from conservative backers. And he says he'll release all the tapes soon to show if any ACORN offices did the right thing. Why not release all the tapes at the start?
O'KEEFE: We knew that they would lie and they would say, "Oh, you've got nothing," or, "You're dubbing your voice in." But you release a little bit at a time, and they get caught in their lie.
ACORN employees in other cities contacted the police
Philadelphia and San Diego area ACORN employees contacted police after O'Keefe's visits. Contrary to O'Keefe's assertion that the Los Angeles ACORN worker "was the only ACORN employee in our nationwide investigation who would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities," ACORN employees in Philadelphia and the San Diego area contacted the police following their encounters with O'Keefe and Giles.
We all lose when the intentions of our founders are subverted in this type of obscene attack.
You should throw these anti-democracy charlatans under the bus and you should not allow yourself to be so badly used.
If you honestly believe we are well served by this attempt to disenfranchise the poor people in America, you deserve the kind of tyranny you are advocating. The rest of us deserve true liberty - a system where the amount of money in your wallet does not determine how much say you have in your governance.
I have no more allegiance to Mao or Marx than I do to corporate America. My allegiance is to the notion that we should leave our nation and our world in a better place than we found it.
Luckily for all of us, fools who believe they are helping themselves by doing the bidding of anti-democratic dinks like Breitbart, Rove, Limbaugh and others of their ilk are a very small number - and not a significant voting block.
You are correct about one thing, elections are won in the middle - and that is where most Americans live, not the left or right. They were never pushed one way or the other. However, they did see, in very large numbers, how poorly served they have been by the right, electing a Democratic majority in Congress and electing a centrist Democrat to the White House. (And they are smart enough to know that your whining loser buddies still haven't changed their self-serving ways.)
You best give this a thought: since fewer than 20% of Americans claim affiliation with the Republican party, and the census is approaching, there is good reason to believe that the redistricting that will soon occur will make things very difficult on the Republican Party. Get ready for oblivion, bubba.
If he were truly a leftist, we would be looking at a vote for single-payer. We would be out of Iraq and Afghanistan. We wouldn't have even bothered with cap-and-trade - we would have hard caps on CO2 emissions.
You have been drinking the KoolAid.
A lot of the people who don't approve of the job President Obama is doing (in all these polls) think he hasn't gone far enough to the LEFT. The polls don't ask that question...lol. When the rubber meets the road (to use your cliche) they will vote for Democrats, again, knowing that they are the best hope for delivering a left agenda.
You really need to think this stuff through a little better.
OBAMA’S NETWORK
De Zutter gives us a clear glimpse of Obama’s radicalism. Obama is called “progressive,” of course, and is said to yearn for “massive economic change.” That could simply mean an end to widespread poverty, rather than social restructuring. Yet Obama is also described as holding “a worldview well beyond” his mother’s “New Deal, Peace Corps, position-paper liberalism.” De Zutter lays out Obama’s ties to radical groups like Chicago Acorn, as Acorn’s lead organizer, Madeleine Talbott, is quoted affirming that: “Barack has proven himself among our members . . . we accept and respect him as a kindred spirit, a fellow organizer.” In “Inside Obama’s Acorn” I explore Obama’s links to this radical group, and to Talbott, who practices the sort of intimidating and often illegal “direct action” Acorn is famous for. (For more on Talbott’s affinity for “direct action,” see “Where Do We Begin?”)
Seek help.
President Obama's actions as Senator and as President have been purely moderate (and even to the right).
You have lost all credibility.
o CBS News InvestigatesJune 2, 2008
Obama's Radical-Left Ties Broad And Deep
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/02/opinion/main4145761.shtml
Read up, bubba:
http://mediamatters.org/search/index?qstring=stanley+Kurtz
You would think quantpro's first clue would have been the "National Review Online" all over the webpage. Lol.
Is moderate a new way to say can't get anything accomplished? Or inexperienced and not competent to lead? Or willing to throw long term affiliations under the bus for political expediency? lol
Right now there's a 90% chance that Republicans will pick up seats in 2010 unless the Obama plan can start creating some jobs ASAP.
That's the problem with running the country. People actually expect results and you're accountable when you don't deliver.
Personally, I think it would help Obama get re-elected in 2012 if he loses Congress in the mid-term. That was the best thing that happened to Clinton (and the whole country).
"Personally, I think it would help Obama get re-elected in 2012 if he loses Congress in the mid-term. That was the best thing that happened to Clinton (and the whole country)."
Commonman:
I agree, it was best for the country and Clinton, because he veered back to the center after flirting with the left, and some good substantive legislation got passed that made a difference, such as welfare reform.
Maybe President Obama will get the drift and put the rudder over to starboard instead of port, and that would also be the best thing that could happen to him and the country. If he doesn't....can you say single term?
ha ha. Al least accuse me of something YOU re not doing
More garbage with no substantiation - all someone's opinions
A couple million people get their news from the Fox propagandists and the rest of the liars on the right - the rest of us have found the internet. We know how to use search engines, and we can find the truth too easily to be misled by the liars you seem to think are serving you.
The Republicans think that embracing technology means using Twitter and telling more lies. The rest of us are looking for information, not slogans and BS. This is called information technology for a reason, but the Republican masters know that information is their enemy.
I pity you for your insularity.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/20/conyers-suggests-probe-of-acorn/
In an startling partisan shift, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers Jr. on Thursday proposed holding hearings on claims the liberal activist group ACORN engaged in a pattern of crimes ranging from voter fraud to a mob-style “protection” racket.
Mr. Conyers, Michigan Democrat and fierce partisan, suggested a congressional probe after scathing testimony about the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) during a hearing on various voting issues related to the 2008 presidential election.
Mr. Conyers called the accusations “a pretty serious matter.”
“I think that it would be something that would be worth our time,” he said during Thursday's hearing. “We've never had one person representing ACORN before the committee. ... I think in all fairness we ought to really examine it.”
Rep. Melvin Watt said he would concede that ACORN and some of its members engaged in voter fraud. But he said voter fraud was already covered by existing law and Congress has not further role in the matter.
“I'm not coming to a hearing to have a trial on ACORN. That's not my job,” the North Carolina Democrat said.
ReasonAndResolve:
The Republican party is enlisting average Americans in this isidious attempt to disenfranchise voters who will assuredly vote against their candidates.
We all lose when the intentions of our founders are subverted in this type of obscene attack.
commonman:
I am very content to let ACORN or anyone else register all the legal voters they can by any legal means. I am not content with voter fraud like that pointed out by the likes of John Conyers.
I am an average American. No one enlisted me. I volunteered. It is not disenfanchisement to deny and punish voter fraud. I sincerely doubt that our founders intended that tax payer dollars would go to support the type of behavior exhibited in the ACORN videos. I don't think the attack was obscene. I think the behavior exhibited was.
ACORN has been operating for decades all over the country. In all that time and in all of those places not one single fraudulent vote has ever been cast as a result of ACORN's activities. Not one. Ever.
Feel free to prove me wrong. A few have tried. All have failed. The likely reason for that is that what I stated is correct.
The worst thing seen on those highly edited videos is the offering of some dubious tax advice. Nothing worse is ever heard from any ACORN workers. I go into more detail in my response to you below, near the bottom of the page.
Of course there would be one way that we could be convinced that that was the case. That would be if there had been not one single solitary case of voter registration fraud EVER on the part of Acorn. One must ask the question: Does voter registration fraud make voter fraud less or more likely?
The way I see it there are only two motives for voter registration fraud.
1. make money
2. prepare to perpetrate voter fraud.
Let me ask you this: Do you think voter registration fraud is morally acceptable? Do you think that offering advice on how to cheat on taxes, misuse govt. forms and taxpeyer funds is morally acceptable?
If you can honestly answer yes to those questions then all I can say is that you and ACORN deserve each other.
From my personal perspective, I'd need to see some evidence of voter fraud before I make that charge. Others don't seem to have those moral values and are willing to accuse ACORN of voter fraud even in the complete and total lack of evidence that it has occurred.
There is a simple reason for the voter registration fraud. People hired to register voters decided to collect their pay without doing the work. It's as simple as that. ACORN is a victim, not a perpetrator. Therefore, as long as we are focused on ACORN, the morality of voter registration fraud is irrelevant because the organization didn't commit that crime. In fact, they usually flag suspicious registration forms for election authorities. ACORN is always willing to assist in catching those breaking election laws, as they have demonstrated many, many times.
Wow, that's a lot of fury directed at the reporting of some facts, and exposing right wing liars. You know, quantpro, you can always go turn on Fox and ignore reality if it's this disturbing to you.
“Conservatives” Are Single-Largest Ideological Group
Percentage of “liberals” higher this decade than in early ’90s
by Lydia Saad
PRINCETON, NJ -- Thus far in 2009, 40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal. This represents a slight increase for conservatism in the U.S. since 2008, returning it to a level last seen in 2004. The 21% calling themselves liberal is in line with findings throughout this decade, but is up from the 1990s.
The art of electoral politics has been totally lost on your party bosses/ All they can do, now, is whine.
Investigators are searching the New Orleans offices of the activist group ACORN in connection with embezzlement and tax fraud allegations.
Assistant Attorney General David Caldwell said a warrant was obtained to seize computers, hard drives and other documents Friday. Caldwell said investigators will copy records and hard drives, then return them to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.
He said the allegations of embezzlement were made last year by ACORN board members who were fired after they asked to look at the group's books.
ACORN fired the longtime director of its Louisiana chapter last month, citing a lack of accountability.
Source: AP News
Do you have anything at all?
Keep up your fantasy about a future tape release. It will always remain in the future.
Do you really want a list of indictments and convictions? Just go look them up yourself. It would fill this blog for weeks. No go to bed without your supper.
In Ohio, in 2004, four ACORN employees were indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms. In January 2005, two Colorado ACORN workers were sentenced to community service for submitting false voter registrations. On Nov. 1, 2006, four part time ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City, Mo., for voter registration fraud. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation. ACORN was investigated in 2006 for submitting false voter registrations in St. Louis, Mo. Fraudulent voter registrations numbered 1,492.
In 2007, five Washington state ACORN workers were sentenced to jail. ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud reoccurred. In 2008, the Michigan Secretary of State office told the Detroit Free Press that ACORN had been submitting a sizeable number of duplicate and fraudulent applications to vote. On Sept. 17, the Bernalillo County clerk in New Mexico notified prosecutors that the office had received fraudulent registration cards.
You are becoming tiresome. You are either stupid, a troll, or a stupid troll. Nothng you have said has any basis in fact at all.
Mr. Obama's connection to ACORN began in Chicago. Madeleine Talbot, the leader of Chicago ACORN was so impressed by Mr. Obama's organizing skills that she invited him to help train her own staff. Ms. Talbot was a key leader in an attempt by ACORN to storm the Chicago City Council during a living-wage debate. According to the Chicago Daily Herald, ACORN demonstrators pushed over the metal detector and table used to screen visitors, backed police against the doors to the council chamber, and blocked late-arriving aldermen and city staff from entering the session. Ms. Talbot was led away handcuffed, charged with mob action and disorderly conduct. This was the woman who first drew Mr. Obama into his alliance with ACORN and whose staff Mr. Obama helped train.
Instead of coming here with the same tired BS, maybe you should start examining your argument and consider actually changing your mind and embracing the side of the people, the side of truth.
You embrace the lies, you continue to accept only those bits of data that fit your narrow view, and you don't even present a single nugget of factual proof for any of your claims.
You tell me, how is registration fraud the same as voter fraud? How is it possible for anything you have presented to have any effect on any election? Why would an organization engage in a fraud that has no rational expectation of changing an election result?
Nothing you say makes a bit of sense.
Nothing.
The truth is that you have not produced a single example of ACORN committing voter fraud. The truth is that a few employees of ACORN have been busted for submitting fictitious registration forms.
The truth is that I have searched all over the internet and all i can find is a handful of complaints that low-level employees have forged a few registration forms.
The truth is that you don't really care about the truth (and you obviously don't know waht "pragmatic' even means).
Your infantile response means nothing because it is patently false.
Ann Coulter has committed more voter fraud that ACORN.
http://www.google.com/search?q=ann+coulter+voter+fraud&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBF
The point that has been made over and over to you (which you are incessantly and mindnumbingly misrepresenting) is that there is no evidence that a multiply registered voter by an Acorn employee (which BTW nobody approves of) has indeed voted more than once. Democracy is still safe from ACORN. Jeesh!
I was just pointing out the stupidity of your contradiction. And if there's an honest criticism to be made against ACORN (not employees acting on their own individual will), then that's fine. The hyperventilating about the people who are ripping off the organization, on the other hand, is patently absurd.
Investigators are searching the New Orleans offices of the activist group ACORN in connection with embezzlement and tax fraud allegations.
Assistant Attorney General David Caldwell said a warrant was obtained to seize computers, hard drives and other documents Friday. Caldwell said investigators will copy records and hard drives, then return them to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now.
He said the allegations of embezzlement were made last year by ACORN board members who were fired after they asked to look at the group's books.
ACORN fired the longtime director of its Louisiana chapter last month, citing a lack of accountability.
Source: AP News
No criminal convictions of ACORN as an organization. None. Ever.
It really is funny that you're willing to make excuses for Coulter's actual voter fraud, yet you continue to pretend ACORN has committed voter fraud when you can't point to ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of a fraudulent vote being cast as a result of their activities. NOT ONE.
Voter registration fraud doesn't count unless you can show some way that ACORN benefited. They didn't in those cases; they were victims.
ACORN, as an organization, has NEVER been convicted of a crime in a court of law. Never. Go ahead, try to prove me wrong.
You've got nothing.
ACORN (or any organization operating registration drives) is required to turn in all registration forms, even those they know to be fraudulent. ACORN turned those forms in in order to encourage that the people responsible were punished. You are a complete tool.
And the bad news for ACORN just keeps pouring in. Last month 11 ACORN workers in Florida were accused by prosecutors of falsifying information on 888 voter registration forms. The month before, ACORN’s former field director in Las Vegas agreed to testify against the group’s activities there. Las Vegas election officials say that up to 48 percent of the voter registration forms the group submitted were “clearly fraudulent.” Although it has barely been mentioned by the mainstream media, to date some 70 ACORN employees in 12 states have been convicted of voter-registration fraud. Expect those numbers to grow.
Earlier this summer, Rep. Darrell Issa, the ranking Republican on the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, released an 88-page staff report on ACORN’s activities. Here’s how that damning document began:
“The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) has repeatedly and deliberately engaged in systemic fraud. Both structurally and operationally, ACORN hides behind a paper wall of nonprofit corporate protections to conceal a criminal conspiracy on the part of its directors, to launder federal money in order to pursue a partisan political agenda and to manipulate the American public.”
You keep going back to voter registrations. How would you get actual votes out of phony registrations?
You are a victim of people who know that they can use you because you are pre-disposed to believe them - because you want to believe them (since it fits your narrow view of what is wrong and who is to blame).
You are here at MMfA for what reason? You foolishly believe that anything you can say will change our minds? That only further proves that you are clueless, and further supports the notion that you don't really have the requisite intelligence to actually critically examine the evidence.
The number is almost certainly zero. Fraudulent votes from false registrations is one of the easiest forms of voter fraud to detect. The rolls of who voted is public record. False addresses could be determined. If such fraud were taking place on a large enough scale to affect elections, investigators could find examples from those voter rolls of fraudulent votes. They simply couldn't be hidden.
Those investigations have taken place. Republicans in particular have searched and searched for examples. The larges search for voter fraud in history finished during the WPE Bush administration, conducted by a Justice Department packed with republican appointees and it found that it is almost entirely non-existent. The isolated instances of voter fraud that were found were individuals who usually made errors or were ignorant of the law. There weren't enough to swing a single election. And not one was related even slightly to ACORN activity.
Frankly, I think you and many on your side of the fence know that what we're saying is right. ACORN is not producing fraudulent votes. I strongly believe that you simply know that the legitimate votes that ACORN helps produce go strongly to Democrats and you HATE THAT FACT.
If I'm wrong and you believe that ACORN is producing fraudulent votes, that makes you either an idiot or extremely ignorant. If I'm right, that makes it very clear whose moral compass is missing. Those are the only alternatives.
If ACORN is making a concerted effort to produce false registrations in order to influence elections, they are failing miserably. So, who has benefited? The answer is quite obvious - the only people who have benefited are those individuals who actually drew a paycheck for those registrations.
And, when we ask who benefits from these attacks on ACORN, the answer is equally obvious: the Republican Party.
The Working Families Party and local Democratic Party Officials are at the center of a massive voter fraud scandal in Troy, NY.
According to the Times Union:
Dozens of forged and fraudulent absentee ballots from people registered to vote on the Working Families Party line were filed in the Sept. 15 primary elections in Troy.
Documents at the county Board of Elections show the fraudulent ballots were handled by or prepared on behalf of various elected officials and leaders and operatives for the Democratic and Working Families parties.
There may be as many as 50 absentee ballots that were forged, according to people close to the case. Countywide, there were 126 absentee ballots applied for on the Working Families Party line.
What isn’t mentioned is that WFP is nothing more than a front group for ACORN. Or as Roger Stone put it:
The Working Families Party is not about working people or families and it isn’t really a party. The WFP is a wholly owned subsidiary of ACORN. Bertha Lewis co-chair of the Working Families Party is the Executive Director of New York ACORN. New York ACORN leader, Steven Kest was the moving force in forming the party and WFP headquarters are located at the same address as ACORN’s national and New York office at 88 Third Avenue in Brooklyn, New York.
WFP is essentially a money funnel which pays for an aggressive door to door canvas. Largely funded by unions, the WFP is ACORN’s “political arm” in New York State. Candidates supported by the Working Families Party and issues supported by ACORN are both advocated on the door steps of target voter homes as they share one major voter canvas.
Adding more evidence to the ACORN-WFP link is Erick Erickson’s examination of Bertha Lewis’ leaked rolodex. Erickson predicted that “With ACORN’s growing negative reputation, it is only a matter of time before it spills over to the Working Families Party.”
The spilling started in Troy, and it will likely flow to all the way to Brooklyn. Yesterday, Rensselaer County Judge Robert Jacon named a special prosecutor to investigate the allegations of fraud.
And in a completely unrelated story, today in Nevada, Christopher Edwards will testify in a preliminary hearing in a criminal fraud case against ACORN. Edwards, the former Las Vegas field director for ACORN, plead guilty last month and has agreed to testify that ACORN devised a program the encouraged and rewarded employees for producing fraudulent voter registrations.
You go ahead and believe everything your lying sources tell you. You are a tool - a perfect victim. You will be a victim for the rest of your life, unless you decide that you need to stop listening to everything your buddies with agendas are telling you.
Good luck.
Wow, you're really flailing around. The possible fraudulent absentee ballots were for a local Working Families Party primary election. The only thing to be determined would be the WFP candidate for a local election. What's more, even in this case the local newspaper states:
You're actually trying to suggest that possible misbehavior by one or two people in the WFP in a local primary election somehow reflects on ACORN because of some tenuous national connection?
Do you really think that the ACORN organization is so concerned with who the WFP candidate in the election is that they'll commit a federal offense by creating fraudulent ballots? Are you that divorced from reality? Are you really that far gone?
You do realize, don't you, that there is absolutely zero evidence of ACORN involvement in this, don't you? The article you plagiarized sure doesn't show any.
Sheesh, you're really bad at this.
There was only one element missing- normally, after posting the GOP-issued right wing talking points, and being slammed for it, they offer up something like this;
"LOL- I guess straying from the librul line one bit makes me a right winger- LOL!"
Aside from that, perfect.
That was as effective as any of your other posts, quant. I'll give you points for consistency.
I am sure that there probably wasn't any office that drug them to the door and then put foot to rear end.
Other than that, Giles needs more training. There are a couple of times where she is obviously lying and/or trying not stumble and mention that some workers did not want to cooperate in the farce.
I haven't seen any evidence that ACORN did anything of the sort. I provide more information in my response to you farther down in the comments.
In my school, that was a possibility.....and I am not joking.
Eric Shawn: "Were there some that refused your offers, that actually did not -- were not willing to cooperate?"
James O'Keefe: "No -- in none of the facil -- [laughs] none of the facilities kicked us out. That's a lie."
Notice how O'Keefe is asked if there were "some that refused your offers..."? But O'Keefe does not answer the question. He says that "none of the facilities kicked us out". That's obviously not the same thing as what was asked. He answered a question that was not asked. Then he pretends like he answered the actual question by saying at the end "That's a lie." If it had not been Fox "News" doing the friendly questioning, they might have noticed the question was being met very carefully and what can only be described as a deliberately deceptive fashion.
The election was won by 9.5 million votes. Even if every registration every ACORN worker filed was fraudulent, they could not have changed the result of the election, nor could they have possibly mobilized enough people to cast 9.5 million fraudulent votes.
Think this stuff through. Please.
Oh, and don't reproduce.
And even though the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now caught the fraud and reported it before the cards were turned in, the incident revived a four-year-old partisan debate over the integrity of Wisconsin's voter registration process...
ACORN found the problems and fired a dozen workers...
But under state law, all of the voter registration cards collected had to be turned in to the election commission, even if they were clearly fraudulent or incomplete... ACORN sent in all the cards its workers had submitted, but flagged the fraudulent or incomplete ones.
...the incomplete and fraudulent cards were a small percentage of the 35,000 registration cards that ACORN turned in, and the suspect workers were a small percentage of 220 or so ACORN deputy registrars.
Sorry, quantpro, you're just another dittohead who can't even find your own sources that don't beat you.
FAIL
By the way, there is something you may not understand: the Justice Department conducts their investigations away from the media. You have no idea who or what they are investigating. Neither do Breitbart, Giles, or O'Keefe. Heck, neither do Hannity, Beck, and Limbaugh.
Oct 05, 2009
"Despite months of outward ambivalence about creating a government health insurance plan, the Obama White House has launched a behind-the-scenes campaign to get divided Senate Democrats to take up some version of the idea for a final vote in the coming weeks," The Los Angeles Times reports. While Obama has said he prefers a public option, he has also been open to health cooperatives and other alternatives. "In the last week, however, senior administration officials have been holding private meetings almost daily at the Capitol with senior Democratic staff to discuss ways to include a version of the public plan in the healthcare bill that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) plans to bring to the Senate floor this month, according to senior Democratic congressional aides. Among those regularly in the meetings are Obama's top healthcare advisor, Nancy-Ann DeParle; aides to Reid; and staff from the Senate Finance and Health committees, both of which developed healthcare bills."
Almost none of you seemed to notice that he posted first and didn't really discuss the topic.
OK, quantpro, I know you're a registered democrat (wink wink) but I'd really strongly suggest you change that as quickly as possible to GOP. You've been caught lying and plagiarizing on this thread, you consider documented lying partisan hacks "heroes", and you don't seem very comfortable with facts.
You're a Republican. Embrace it.
Normally, as you know, I allow for the possibility of partisanship for people who make irrational criticisms. It's possible that this person has a severe mental or personality disorder. But otherwise, the tone and style displayed here from a Democrat would suggest racism.
quatpro has been trained well. He may just provide laughs for most here, but I'm pretty sure he believes himself.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horseraceblog/2009/11/another_look_at_obamas_job_app.html
Not with this guy in charge:
TRANSLATION: The scary black guy with the funny name will be out, and all will be right with the world.
Regardless, ACORN has filed suit against those two sleazeballs who created the highly edited videotapes we've all seen.
Quantro -- for all you do -- we salute you!
And I read, in the comments section here, that ACORN is the victim? I think the taxpayers are the victims here.
Congratulations on trying to defend the indefensible, and good luck with that.
2. You are accepting the words of proven liars when they tell you that these videos are legitimate. Look at any one of them and tell me that you can see Giles or Okeefe actually speaking on camera. What did Giles and Okeefe really say?
3. You are condemning an entire organization based upon the actions of a handful of people who have since been fired.
4. The evidence suggests that those individuals were acting on their own and not out of some policy - since there are proven instances of ACORN staffers refusing to help them.
5. Further evidence suggests that no paperwork was ever filed on behalf of the faux pimp and his lady - more proof that ACORN did not condone their avtivities.
6. Giles, Breitbart, and Okeefe have acted in a purely political manner, refusing to release unedited tapes, misrepresenting what is on the tapes and their source of funding, and clearly demonstrating that they have an agenda that preceded the making of the videos.
7. When confronted with the evidence that these three have lied, you have chosen to continue to believe tham. This speaks volumes about your own predispositions.
1. You are defending people who have already been shown to be liars - and in their own words.
commonman:
so are you.
R&R:
2. You are accepting the words of proven liars when they tell you that these videos are legitimate. Look at any one of them and tell me that you can see Giles or Okeefe actually speaking on camera. What did Giles and Okeefe really say?
commonman:
you are accepting ACORN's explanation when they tell you that what you see on the tapes is not happening. It's a bit hard to show yourself when you are wearing a hidden camera. Giles is seen a number of times on the tape and you can hear what she says. If the tapes are all doctored why did anyone get fired?
R&R:
3. You are condemning an entire organization based upon the actions of a handful of people who have since been fired.
commonman:
I am condemning the specific behavior on the part of those on tape who make illicit suggestions. I am also condemning those who have been indicted.
R&R:
4. The evidence suggests that those individuals were acting on their own and not out of some policy - since there are proven instances of ACORN staffers refusing to help them.
commonman:
I saw one instance of an ACORN staffer refusing to help. Good for him. Shame on the rest of them.
R&R:
5. Further evidence suggests that no paperwork was ever filed on behalf of the faux pimp and his lady - more proof that ACORN did not condone their avtivities.
commonman:
Since the there was a single visit, and the staffers several times gave O'Keefe and Giles business cards or phone numbers one may assume that some followup was intended. A bit hard to get paperwork filed when there is only an introductory contact made.
R&R:
6. Giles, Breitbart, and Okeefe have acted in a purely political manner, refusing to release unedited tapes, misrepresenting what is on the tapes and their source of funding, and clearly demonstrating that they have an agenda that preceded the making of the videos.
commonman:
ACORN has acted in a political manner, (having been indicted for voter registration fraud, with even Liberal representatives calling for a congressional probe), misrepresenting methods of obtaining registrations, misusing taxpayer dollars and clearly demonstrating that they have an agenda.
R&R:
7. When confronted with the evidence that these three have lied, you have chosen to continue to believe tham. This speaks volumes about your own predispositions.
commonman:
When confronted with actual spoken words out of ACORN staffer mouths
you choose to believe the ACORN line that denies wrongdoing. This speaks volumes about your own predispositions.
So let's get this straight. It is OK for liberals to have predispositions, call opponents bad names etc., but it is morally offensive for conservatives to have predispositions. That's an interesting world you live in.
I am predisposed to be careful with tax payer dollars given to ACORN until indictments, and congressional investigations are totally and completely cleared up. But then I suppose that since you progressives are so free with all of our tax dollars that isn't particularly important to you. Have I about got your "predisposition" down pat?
Did they do that? I don't believe they did. I've watched every minute of those videos and, out of over a dozen ACORN workers at the several locations, you don't ever hear any of them making any direct reference to prostitution rings, underage prostitutes or smuggling in prostitutes of any age. Not one single time. The only mention of the topic comes from the off-camera voice of those highly edited videos.
Does that make sense to you? If any of those things were the topic of conversation, is it believable that not one single ACORN worker would make direct reference to it? Out of all of those conversations? It stretches my sense of credulity well beyond the breaking point.
I've pointed this out several times here and on other forums. Inevitably, some ACORN attacker tells me I'm wrong, but none of them have ever SHOWN me to be wrong. Maybe you can be the first. Link to a video and tell us the time point in the video where an ACORN worker makes direct reference to those topics. Or link to one of the transcripts and show where I'm proven wrong.
No one's succeeded yet. Maybe you can be the first. Until then, I will continue to doubt whether those topics were ever discussed with any ACORN workers.
Seven tapes... right? We will start with the most rescent one and work backwards in order of their release.
Number 7: L.A... The employee clearly tells the pair that any work that they do with ACORN must be legitimate.
Number 6: Philadeplhpia ... A police report was filed as a result of the consultation that an ACORN employee had with the pair.
Number 5: The employee of ACORN proved to be play acting a charade in response to the bizarre dress and behavior of James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles. This makes the tape completely bogus.
Number 4: New York... Video clearly shows improper behavior on the part of the ACORN employees and they were terminated.
Number 3: San Bernadino... The ACORN employee in this tape contacted the police and then spoke to an agent in human trafficing before finding out that it had been a hoax.
Number 2: The Baltimore office... the most egregious offenders in the released tapes and all employees involved were terminated.
Number 1: Washington... The discussion of child prostitution was never brought up and the discussions they had about actual prostitution was morally questionable but not illegal. Those employees involved were also terminated.
Please correct me if I am wrong about the order or analysis of these videos, but for short synopsis I believe those to be accurate.
So out of seven tapes... One the employee shot them down, Two the police were called, and a fourth one was play acted and bogus. This leaves three locations where the behavior of the employees was obviously wrong and they were terminated.
Seven tapes... right? We will start with the most rescent one and work backwards in order of their release.
commonman:
yes let's
rk09:
Number 7: L.A... The employee clearly tells the pair that any work that they do with ACORN must be legitimate.
That would be Felix Harris, ACORN staffer. However Lavell Stewart, ACORN staffer, made questionable statements. Not quite the slam dunk you present. Why did you not mention Lavelle?
rk09:
Number 6: Philadeplhpia ... A police report was filed as a result of the consultation that an ACORN employee had with the pair.
commonman:
After the staffers made questionable recommendations and after O'Keefe and Giles left. Why didn't the Philadelphia office tell them to get the hell out of the office and tell them that they were calling the cops?
rk09:
Number 5: The employee of ACORN proved to be play acting a charade in response to the bizarre dress and behavior of James O'Keefe and Hannah Giles. This makes the tape completely bogus.
commonman:
So the guy is caught. What is he going to say? "Oh yeah you caught me". No, of course not, oh well I was just plying a charade. Very professional, I'm so impressed with ACORN staffers.
rk09:
Number 4: New York... Video clearly shows improper behavior on the part of the ACORN employees and they were terminated.
commonman:
Well we would hope so!
rk09:
Number 3: San Bernadino... The ACORN employee in this tape contacted the police and then spoke to an agent in human trafficing before finding out that it had been a hoax.
commonman:
yeah, Teresa was pretty weird, so why would you hire someone like her? And in a professional setting why would you even say anything that she said? The tape bogus? Teresa said what she said, has she been fired...should she have been?
rk09:
Number 2: The Baltimore office... the most egregious offenders in the released tapes and all employees involved were terminated.
commonman:
As well they should have been!
Number 1: Washington... The discussion of child prostitution was never brought up and the discussions they had about actual prostitution was morally questionable but not illegal. Those employees involved were also terminated.
commonman:
So you are ok with ACORN professionals doing things that are "morally questionable but not illegal"? I notice that the unlucky ones were the early ones. They got fired because there was no warning and they didn't have time to cook up an alibi. By the time the later tapes are released ACORN is forewarned and is anxious not to show a pattern, so they accept and support the questionable excuses and alibi's of the staffers caught in later tapes.
rk09:
Please correct me if I am wrong about the order or analysis of these videos, but for short synopsis I believe those to be accurate.
commonman:
I just did.
rk09:
So out of seven tapes... One the employee shot them down, Two the police were called, and a fourth one was play acted and bogus. This leaves three locations where the behavior of the employees was obviously wrong and they were terminated.
commonman:
So out of seven tapes...One employee Felix,shot them down...sandwiched in between Lavell who encouraged them and gave made some pretty questionable statements. Two the police were called after questionable statements were made by the staffers and after O'keefe and Giles were gone. Four, staffer still made potentially damning statements, why? Just tell the kids to hit the road. This leaves three early locations where there wasn't time to get the defenses up, circle the wagons and get the alibi's in place.
Obviously you missed that I was refering to outcomes of these tapes, and not the content of the tapes themselves, because as it has been pointed out by many people and myself, these tapes cannot be taken seriously by any stretch of the imagination. They are edited to a rediculous extent and not one of them could be admitted into evidence of any court in their current form. Not one thing you have presented here today shows ACORN doing anything illegal. Nothing. Not one.
"Questionable statements" are not illegal, just stupid.
Don't boil them in oil. Simply follow up on the indictments and investigate them in congress before you give them one more penny of tax money.
While you are busy worrying over a group which received a whopping 53 million in federal funds over better than a decade, the Democrats are passing healthcare reform, which will spell the end of the GOP's presidential hopes for a generation.
And yes, they will expand the public options, just as you fear.
And jobs will return, just as you fear.
Everything you fear will come to pass, and America will be all the better for it.
Randy
I hope jobs do come back. I would like a good one. I have no confidence that anything progressives are doing will bring that result.