Fox News promotes GOP comparison of Senate health plan to a "Ponzi scheme"
The Fox Nation and FoxNews.com advanced the suggestion that Democrats' health care plans are, in Fox Nation's words, a "Ponzi scheme," a charge presumably based on Sen. Jon Kyl's (R-AZ) claim that "[w]hen they claim a savings ... in the first 10 years, that's because they start collecting taxes in 2010 they don't start spending money till 2014." In fact, contrary to Kyl's suggestion that savings would not extend past the first 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projected that the Senate health care bill would continue to reduce the deficit beyond the first 10 years by as much as $650 billion in the decade beginning after 2019.
FoxNews.com, Fox Nation echo Kyl's assertion that health care reform is a Ponzi scheme
FoxNews.com quoted Kyl calling the bill a Ponzi scheme that "Bernie Madoff would really envy" and advanced his false suggestion that savings would not extend past first 10 years. A November 22 FoxNews.com article about senators' views on the health care bill said: "Calling the Senate health care bill a package that Ponzi schemer 'Bernie Madoff would really envy,' Republican Sen. Jon Kyl said Sunday that the legislation to be debated in December is long on promises but short on accounting." It then quoted Kyl as saying, "When they claim a savings ... in the first 10 years, that's because they start collecting taxes in 2010 they don't start spending money till 2014."
Fox Nation: "Is Obamacare A Ponzi Scheme?" Fox Nation linked to the FoxNews.com article with the headline, "Is Obamacare A Ponzi Scheme?" under a side-by-side picture of President Obama and Madoff. From the Fox Nation:

But CBO projected that deficit reductions would continue after the first 10 years
CBO: Bill yields "a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion" over 10 years. From CBO's November 18 cost estimate:
CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion over the 2010-2019 period (see Table 1). Approximately $77 billion of that reduction would be on-budget (other effects related to Social Security revenues and spending as well as spending by the U.S. Postal Service are classified as off-budget). CBO has not completed an estimate of all of the legislation's potential impact on spending that would be subject to future appropriation action.
CBO expects bill to reduce deficit by as much as $650 billion during decade after 2019. Contrary to Kyl's suggestion, CBO estimated that the bill will continue to reduce the deficit beyond the 10-year budget window that ends in 2019 by "around one-quarter percent of GDP." As FoxNews.com itself reported in a different article, this reduction amounts to "as much as $650 billion." CBO also noted that it "has not extrapolated estimates further into the future, because the uncertainties surrounding them are magnified even more," but it said that "the legislation would probably continue to reduce budget deficits." From CBO's cost estimate:
In the decade after 2019, the gross cost of the coverage expansion would probably exceed 1 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), but the added revenues and cost savings would probably be greater. Consequently, CBO expects that the bill, if enacted, would reduce federal budget deficits over the ensuing decade relative to those projected under current law -- with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range around one-quarter percent of GDP.
[...]
CBO has not extrapolated estimates further into the future, because the uncertainties surrounding them are magnified even more. However, in view of the projected net savings during the decade following the 10-year budget window, CBO anticipates that the legislation would probably continue to reduce budget deficits relative to those under current law in subsequent decades, assuming that all of its provisions would continue to be fully implemented. Pursuant to section 311 of S. Con. Res. 70, CBO estimates that enacting the legislation would not cause a net increase in deficits in excess of $5 billion in any of the four 10-year periods beginning after 2019.
CBO: After 2019, "no significant change" in "federal budgetary commitment to health care." CBO estimated that the net increase in federal health care spending from 2010-19 is $160 billion. However, CBO estimated that "during the decade following the 10-year budget window, the increases and decreases in the federal budgetary commitment to health care stemming from this legislation would roughly balance out, so that there would be no significant change in that commitment." Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein noted that according to CBO, in the decade after 2019 the bill "leaves the government spending no more on health care than it otherwise planned to. That's impressive stuff given that some 94 percent of the country has health insurance [under the Senate bill]." From Klein:
One actual surprise is that the Senate bill doesn't just pay for itself. It balances itself out. That is to say, the bill is not deficit neutral because it costs a billion dollars and then the government raises a billion more dollars in taxes. In that scenario, the government is spending more, but paying for it. Rather, "CBO expects that, during the decade following the 10-year budget window, the increases and decreases in the federal budgetary commitment to health care stemming from this legislation would roughly balance out, so that there would be no significant change in that commitment."
In the first 10 years, in other words, the bill improves the deficit a bit, but the government is spending $160 billion more on health care than it otherwise would have. In the second decade, however, that ends: The savings from Medicare and Medicaid, paired with the excise tax (which CBO says "is effectively a reduction in the existing tax expenditure for health insurance premiums") and a handful of other changes, leaves the government spending no more on health care than it otherwise planned to. That's impressive stuff given that some 94 percent of the country has health insurance. And it implies, of course, that in the third decade, the federal commitment actually goes down relative to expectations. The curve, as they say, is bent.
















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It's not a Ponzi scheme either, despite the rightwingers attempts to label it as such.
Medicare is also not a trust fund, but a pay as you go scheme and most people know that Medicare is in much deeper doo-doo. Then along comes the Health Care bills that are funded on the same basis and will add 46 million additional people to the beneficiary list, most of whome won't be paying into the plan. If that's not a Ponzi scheme, then the Dems have gone Ponzi one better.
The scheme being proposed in the House and Senate is likely to bring
the country to collapse if a really good recession arises. Alternatively, if the tax paying people in this country participate in a tax payers revolt the whole scheme will come crashing down also.
All in all, the current bills in congress are so financially irresponsible (remember, the CBO is the one that estimated $12B for Medicare in 1990 and the real Medicare bill in 1990 was $105B), that the names of the people who vote for it will become infamous.
And it didn't start out as pay as you go. Due to concerns about the federal govt keeping too much money in a huge 'savings account', they started paying out more benefits and did it faster to drain much of the trust fund, but it sure did start out that way. It's too bad that people who don't know what they're talking about keep trying to educate those of us who do know what we're talking about.
There is a trust fund now, preloaded with funds from a decision made in the 1980's. They estimated that their adjustments would fully fund the baby boomer retirees - those folks have paid for some of their own retirement in advance with that trust fund prepayments!
The fact that it works like retirement insurance doesn't take away from the fact that there's a trust fund. The money is there for those who need it. If you're dead, you don't need money to live on, do you? What would we do - bury the money with the dead person? It's not an investment. It's insurance.
And most people know that Medicare is in much more dire straits? Nope. And if the smart people do know that, why did Pres Bush try to 'fix' Social Security, and not Medicare?
Because the fix wasn't about taking care of a crisis. It was about trying to enrich his buddies on Wall St, trying to make the rich get even richer and screwing the poorest of the poor in the process and future generations.
Meanwhile:
I know people that have been receiving SSI since they where in their 20's (now in their 40's), simply because they were clinically declared an alcoholic, and their kids also received a monthly check due to this. BIG GOV'T ALLOWED this to happen.
On the other han, Fox News is just a 24x7 Republican tool that knows it is not the same, but is pushing their conservative agenda.
See? That wasn't difficult ...
Aaahhh, critical thinking at its finest.
There is no way to calculate what something of this magnitude will cost. You can only make assumptions and whatever assumptions you make will end up different in the end. The general rule of thumb is that revenues end up being less than anticipated and expenses come in greater than anticipated. Based on the government's track record we all know what will happen and the government will need to take money from other programs. Anyone who disagrees might as well start sending their entire paychecks to Washington.
I can play this game.
How much do the 45,000 yearly deaths cost? How much to the medical bankruptcies cost? How much does having millions of uninsured citizens cost?
I betcha a lot more than any worst case scenario you can create.
Universal healthcare provided by our govt? Don't make me laugh...we can't even give universal mail service without going broke...like the USPS.
-- But our current business model needs to be reviewed and revised to come up with a sustainable model so that we can get back to profitability while still continuing to meet our mission of serving all of the country with affordable, universal Postal Service -- CBS
Their solutions? Stop paying for their employees healthcare benefits...the govt.proposes to provide healthcare for all and they can't even take care of their own employees.
Secondly ration service...they want to drop Saturday deliveries...that's the ticket big brother...when you can't perform as require just reduce the level of service...just like rationing healthcare when it starts to starts to flow barrels of red ink.
Yep, another govt. program that is going broke while performing a simple task like mail delivery...no thanks to govt. controlled healthcare.
1. MMFA is a site that monitors all the media, and points out when any major media source pushes conservative misinformation. So no, it has nothing to do with us not grasping how to work the remote controls on our TV's. It's about calling out the nonsense that gets too much credibility now.
2. We don't have virtually every other news station. That was a lie started by a couple of Republicans with a plan about 3 decades ago - the liberal media bias lie. It never existed.
3. No, you can't have one station that claims to be fair and balanced and claims to be a legitimate news organization that in fact is anti-Obama and a de facto opposition channel without us pointing out every example of how they aren't fair and balanced and legit. FoxNews has the right to spew nonsense, but we have a right to call them on it. Not only do we have a right to do it, we believe we have an obligation to do it! This crap is toxic to our national debate!
4. We don't have pie in the sky Utopian ideals that you need to worry your little head about. So, shove your "bleeding heart liberal" comment where the sun don't shine, fool.
That is what is happening today with Social Security. You either need more and more contributors [we've run out], you have to lower benefits [change the contract unilaterally; break the promise] or raise taxes. Within 10 years of so, 2 people will be supporting each retiree. When SS started the ratio was 18 to 1. If the average benefit is $1500 per person per month. the average tax will be $750/month per person. That's payroll tax -- directly off the top -- before taxes. I presume you all can afford that, right?
Since the Health Care bills are built on the same financial principles as Social Security AND they are adding 46 million beneficiaries immediately, the Ponzi scheme that is the Democrat Health Care plan will suffer the same fate as Social Security. To make it work one of these options must be chosen: 1) reduce benefits [rationing]; 2) raise taxes on everyone; or 3) get more contributors. Option #3 is out because the Dem's are trying to cover everyone right from the start. Therefore, to pay for everyone's health care, either the taxes go up or rationing comes in.
So, the Dem's say no rationing, but there is no clause in any of the bills that says "no rationing". Therefore, there is nothing preventing the Secretary for implementing rationing and death panels. Furthermore, should the Secretary implement rationing or death panels, for most actions the Secretary is "beyond judicial review".
Obama says he won't raise taxes but unless he raises taxes, rationing will start.
Looks to me like he's in a pickle.
Remember hearing about the Baby Boomers? We had a ton of people born shortly after WW II who survived. We had better food and medicine and no easy birth control until the early 1960's, as well as enough money to support a big family, so many more people were born during that period of terrific economic growth.
It's not a Ponzi scheme. We happened to have a big blip in population. Once those people die off, we'll have a much more workable ratio between workers and retirees.
To fail to acknowledge the reason for the disparity between workers and retirees during this generational shift is disingenuous. And we made many of those workers pay into Social Security - they've been prepaying some of their retirement benefits - that's why there's a big trust fund still. And that's why your $1500 per month/$750 per retiree is nonsense. The Social Security Trust Fund is STILL taking in more than is being paid out, and that continues for about 10 more years, so those retirees will be paid from current SS taxes and from money stored in the Trust Fund, not just from current workers!
You don't know what you're talking about, and as such, you shouldn't be lecturing us! Stupid people who don't know stuff shouldn't do that!
Did you know that when you bought a box of corn flakes, the money you spent on the corn flakes is not used to manufacture that box? Instead, some other people bought corn flakes months ago. Some of the money they spent on those boxes was used to manufacture the box you bought.
Put an end to the Kellogg's Ponzi scheme!