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Conservative media hype misleading report suggesting CRU destroyed raw climate data

December 01, 2009 2:50 pm ET — 46 Comments

Conservative media have recently suggested that scientists at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia intentionally "threw out" or "destroyed" the raw temperature data "underpinning the man-made-warming theory," in the words of the New York Post, echoing a recent London Times article that said it is "now impossible" to examine how the CRU made its conclusions. In fact, according to the scientists, the raw data is still available at the meteorological services where they obtained it -- director Phil Jones said the CRU simply did not keep copies for "less than 5 percent of its original station data" in its database because those "stations had several discontinuities or were affected by urbanization trends."

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Conservative media suggest CRU destroyed original data on which global warming theory is based

London Times: CRU scientists "admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based." A November 29 London Times article stated, "Scientists at the University of East Anglia (UEA) have admitted throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based. It means that other academics are not able to check basic calculations said to show a long-term rise in temperature over the past 150 years":

The data were gathered from weather stations around the world and then adjusted to take account of variables in the way they were collected. The revised figures were kept, but the originals -- stored on paper and magnetic tape -- were dumped to save space when the CRU moved to a new building.

The admission follows the leaking of a thousand private emails sent and received by Professor Phil Jones, the CRU's director. In them he discusses thwarting climate sceptics seeking access to such data.

In a statement on its website, the CRU said: "We do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (quality controlled and homogenised) data."

The CRU is the world's leading centre for reconstructing past climate and temperatures. Climate change sceptics have long been keen to examine exactly how its data were compiled. That is now impossible.

NY Post: "If you can't prove apocalypse is nigh, at least now nobody can prove it isn't." A December 1 New York Post editorial claimed: "It turns out that most of the 'data' underlying claims that the planet is on the verge of global-warming destruction got tossed with the trash." The editorial also asserted that the CRU scientists "now claim that the key data underpinning the man-made-warming theory was ... thrown out: Original climate data stored on magnetic tape and paper were dumped, supposedly when the CRU moved to new quarters."

HotAir's Morrissey: CRU "threw out the raw data on which much of" theory of man-made global warming is based. In a November 29 post on HotAir.com, Ed Morrissey wrote, "When would scientists expecting the world to take them seriously throw out the raw data on which their conclusions are based?" and added that the CRU "now admits they threw out the raw data on which much of their theories on anthropogenic global warming are based."

Brit Hume: "Raw data used to create these models has been destroyed or otherwise disposed of." On the November 30 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier, senior political analyst Brit Hume -- while misleadingly asserting that '"[t]here's been no apparent increase in global temperatures over the past 11 years" -- said: "Now it has come out that the original raw data used to create these models has been destroyed or otherwise disposed of. The response of the alarmists to these revelations has been that the emails were taken out of context and that the destruction of all that raw data was done for space reasons. There's a one-word answer to all of that: Please."

Wash. Examiner's Michael Barone: "They destroyed all the original data." On the November 30 edition of Fox Business' Cavuto, The Washington Examiner's Michael Barone said the scientists "destroyed all the original data. Only data that they have now is data that they have manipulated and adjusted, perhaps to fit their hypotheses. And, as a result, we're not being asked to [lower greenhouse gas emissions] on the basis of science." Later, Barone said, "They have non-retrievable data. They say they can't get their original data. They have non-replicable data."

Gateway Pundit: "[S]cientists admitted to throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based." In a November 29 post about the "global warming scam artists" on the conservative blog Gateway Pundit, Jim Hoft wrote: "Global Warming scientists admitted to throwing away much of the raw temperature data on which their predictions of global warming are based."

In fact, original data is held by meteorological services

CRU scientist: "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there." According to an October 14 Greenwire article, Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit, said, "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there -- you can still get these stations from the [NOAA] National Climatic Data Center." The article said that Jones' statement came after the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) "blasted the research unit for the 'suspicious destruction of its original data.' " The article further noted that Jones "said that the vast majority of the station data was not altered at all" and that "[t]he research unit has deleted less than 5 percent of its original station data because the stations had several discontinuities or were affected by urbanization trends, Jones said."

At issue is raw data from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia in Norwich, England, including surface temperature averages from weather stations around the world. The data was used in assessments by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, reports that EPA has used in turn to formulate its climate policies.

Citing a statement on the research unit's Web site, CEI blasted the research unit for the "suspicious destruction of its original data." According to CRU's Web site, "Data storage availability in the 1980s meant that we were not able to keep the multiple sources for some sites, only the station series after adjustment for homogeneity issues. We, therefore, do not hold the original raw data but only the value-added (i.e. quality controlled and homogenized) data."

Phil Jones, director of the Climatic Research Unit, said that the vast majority of the station data was not altered at all, and the small amount that was changed was adjusted for consistency.

The research unit has deleted less than 5 percent of its original station data from its database because the stations had several discontinuities or were affected by urbanization trends, Jones said.

"When you're looking at climate data, you don't want stations that are showing urban warming trends," Jones said, "so we've taken them out." Most of the stations for which data was removed are located in areas where there were already dense monitoring networks, he added. "We rarely removed a station in a data-sparse region of the world."

Refuting CEI's claims of data-destruction, Jones said, "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there -- you can still get these stations from the [NOAA] National Climatic Data Center."

NASA climate modeler: "The original data is curated at the met services where it originated." In response to a comment on his blog Real Climate asking whether it is true that the CRU lost the data, Gavin Schmidt, a climate scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, replied: "No. The original data is curated at the met services where it originated."

Scientists: CRU climate change findings similar to those of other research centers with separate data sets

Scientists note that datasets from other research centers show the same climate trends. The Greenwire article said that Tom Karl, director of NOAA's Climatic Data Center, "noted that the conclusions of the IPCC reports are based on several data sets in addition to the CRU, including data from NOAA, NASA and the United Kingdom Met Office. Each of those data sets basically show identical multi-decadal trends, Karl said." The article also said that Ben Santer, a climate scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, "said CRU's major findings were replicated by other groups, including the NOAA climatic data center, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and also in Russia."

Santer: "[K]ey point here is that other groups ... WERE able to replicate the major findings of the CRU." Responding to charges made by the CEI, Santer wrote:

I am sure that, over 20 years ago, the CRU could not have foreseen that the raw station data might be the subject of legal proceedings by the CEI and Pat Michaels. Raw data were NOT secretly destroyed to avoid efforts by other scientists to replicate the CRU and Hadley Centre-based estimates of global-scale changes in near-surface temperature. In fact, a key point here is that other groups -- primarily at the NOAA National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) and at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), but also in Russia -- WERE able to replicate the major findings of the CRU and UK Hadley Centre groups. The NCDC and GISS groups performed this replication completely independently. They made different choices in the complex process of choosing input data, adjusting raw station data for known inhomogeneities (such as urbanization effects, changes in instrumentation, site location, and observation time), and gridding procedures. NCDC and GISS-based estimates of global surface temperature changes are in good accord with the HadCRUT data results.

Conservative media also distort stolen CRU emails

Destroyed data claims follow media's aggressive distortion of stolen CRU emails. Since the reported theft of emails from the CRU, conservative media figures have aggressively claimed that those emails undermine the overwhelming scientific consensus that human activities are causing climate change, dubbing the supposed scandal "Climategate." But these critics have largely rested their claims on outlandish distortions and misrepresentations of the contents of the stolen emails, greatly undermining their dubious smears.

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    • Author by hoosier (December 01, 2009 3:03 pm ET)
      2 5
      UK climate scientist to temporarily step down

      LONDON — Britain's University of East Anglia says the director of its prestigious Climatic Research Unit is stepping down pending an investigation into allegations that he overstated the case for man-made climate change.

      The university says Phil Jones will relinquish his position until the completion of an independent review into allegations that he worked to alter the way in which global temperature data was presented.

      The allegations were made after more than a decade of correspondence between leading British and U.S. scientists were posted to the Web following the security breach last month.

      The e-mails were seized upon by some skeptics of man-made climate change as proof that scientists are manipulating the data about its extent.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (December 01, 2009 3:38 pm ET)
        5 1
        Off topic. The status of Phil Jones has nothing to do with the false meme that the right has been pushing that the deletion of the data means anything.

        Please don't feed the troll.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ThePrinciple (December 04, 2009 2:32 am ET)
           
        I am scientist out here in Berkeley who deals with presenting data sets and publishing do's and don'ts all the time. It is well-known among the scientific community that any data published by a group should be ready to be offered to anyone for inspection. With that, I have two issues with the CRU's credibility:

        1) How hard is it to keep a graph of the original data points? That would take up about one page of paper.

        2) A logical model should have been included in the Methods section of the paper that lays out the criteria used to adjust the data. This model could then be used to back-calculate to the original data points. If the exact adjustment method is not in the paper, then the transparency of the CRU's scientific method is suspect.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by ScienceBuff (December 01, 2009 3:25 pm ET)
      4 1
      CRU discarded their copies of a small portion of the original data. The data still exists.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ReasonAndResolve (December 01, 2009 3:35 pm ET)
        4 1
        As we know - none of this will matter. The skeptics will only claim that the CRU is protecting its own when Phil Jones is exonerated.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by ScienceBuff (December 01, 2009 3:43 pm ET)
          4 1
          Yup, they'll yell "cover up" after THEY fail to present a case against him.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:44 pm ET)
             
          Hey if the critics are wrong then they're wrong... not likely...
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:44 pm ET)
           
        Then CRU will PROVE IT and be all cleared up when the data is used to successfully duplicate and verify their findings... right, buy that and I have a bridge for sale...
        Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (December 01, 2009 3:37 pm ET)
      4 1
      Hmmm, this is EXACTLY what I've said over and over again.

      Thanks, MMFA.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:46 pm ET)
           
        Simple then, just make the data available and all will be good... ain't gonna happen. This is just another red herring thrown up to try and deflect reality...
        Report Abuse
    • Author by boulderhippy (December 01, 2009 3:38 pm ET)
      1 5
      For proper peer reviews, all data and research should be readily availible for inspection.

      Raw data should never be destroyed because the act of compiling the data in one place is a large task that has already been done. When you destroy that data and say that it is stored in a lot of places around the world, it appears improper.

      This case just shows how the people we pay for a job get lazy. It also shows that the peer reviews were not very in-depth. It appears like the reviewers were just rubber stamping the results.

      Bad science taints all results even if they are correct.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (December 01, 2009 4:56 pm ET)
        4 1
        Nope, you're wrong. There's no obligation for them to have kept all the raw data. You don't know what you're talking about.

        It doesn't appear improper. It appears, and is, perfectly normal behavior. Just like when doing a paper for school, you don't need to save all the notes you took, nor do you need to purchase your reference books and keep them until the term is over. You use the information that others before you have collected, and then you create your own work built upon their work. The resources remain in the other reference books, and you cite them in your bibliography.

        The weather monitoring stations around the world still have their data. It would be a job to get it back again, but there's no reason to do that. The data that was changed/deleted would be changed/deleted by anyone trying to do fair research! You wouldn't keep in data that was skewed because a station had artificially higher or lower temps for some period of time, and therefore the trend being shown wasn't reliable!

        This is not rocket science, but you don't get it - that's your failing, not ours, nor the failing of the data.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by boulderhippy (December 01, 2009 6:23 pm ET)
            4
          In school I was taught to show my work. Manipulating data is no different. I have collected, manipulated and reported data for over 20 years. I would never even think of getting rid of raw data. It is the foundation of your research. Showing changed or deleted data is as relevent as the reported data.

          No, this isn't rocket science. It is more important. It can effect the economy of the world. It can effect the balance of power.

          The only thing a scientist has is credibility. Most scientists forget that when they get the "GOD" syndrome. They get lazy and sloppy in data handling. Serious science is subject to more serious scrutiny than these school papers you speak of. Most raw data is not technically published, footnotes therefore are irrelevant.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by rumpleteasermom (December 01, 2009 9:18 pm ET)
            3  
            Hippy, when you wrote your term papers, did you turn in the books you used for research too - that's the equivalent? I know of no school anywhere that requires that.

            It is not the responsibility of CRU to store the raw data forever. That responsibility belongs to the weather stations tat collect it in the first place.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by boulderhippy (December 02, 2009 11:03 am ET)
                 
              You keep going back to school papers. When writing term papers you use published material as a reference. In science, most data is unpublished. Therefore, you can't go to the library to obtain the information.

              Yes, it is the responsibility of CRU to maintain all relevant materials used in research. The appearance of impropriety is the reason for keeping everything. There has been many instances of mishandled data at collection sites, which have ended in lost raw data. People working at these sites are technicians and scientists not librarians. To say that safeguarding data is someone elses responsibility requires a level of trust that borders on naivety.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:53 pm ET)
                 
              Are you too out of your mind? the RESEARCHER is responsible. They've evaded EVER effort to get the original data.

              No way of proving, verifying or duplicating ANYTHING without the ORIGINAL DATA THEY USED... not questionable data resupplied by the "stations".
              Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (December 02, 2009 12:48 pm ET)
            2  
            Nothing you say is credible if you can't understand this simple concept.

            The data was "gotten rid of". The weather monitoring stations still have that data.

            The fact that you don't understand this destroys any credibility you might have. And, if you don't know it yet, anyone can claim ANYTHING they want about themselves in an online community. You don't get to claim credibility here. You earn respect and credibility. You can't say that you have experience with data, then show that you don't grasp this concept, and still get 'credit' for your experience.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:51 pm ET)
               
            I've been trying to help poor dear dolly understand for a few days now. I think it's pointless
            Report Abuse
        • Author by rumpleteasermom (December 01, 2009 9:15 pm ET)
          4  
          LOL, nope, not rocket science. Climate science!

          But apparently ALL science is beyond some of these people.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:50 pm ET)
             
          Again poor uneducated dolly... YOU are wrong. It IS their obligation to document EVERYTHING and retain ALL data. Without the data they used NO verification or duplication can take place... Who's to say that any data recovered is exactly what they used to begin with. Its sorta like a "chain of evidence" if you watch TV, well something besides cartoons....
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Hello... HELLO... Is there anybody out there? (December 02, 2009 8:48 pm ET)
           
        Well boulderhippy I try and remain open minded. I can be convinced but as you say bad/lazy science just isn't going to make it.

        OK John Q Public there's the ALTERED data that proves global warming, just trust us, we're the scientists...
        Report Abuse
    • Author by hoosier (December 01, 2009 3:43 pm ET)
      2 5
      Penn State Will Investigate 'Climategate'

      Among other things, the Watergate scandal of the 1970s gave us a great naming convention for future scandals. Take "Climategate" at Penn State. That's what people are calling the controversy surrounding leaked E-mails among climate change researchers that climate change opponents say expose the researchers' falsification of data. One Penn State professor is involved in the scandal......






      Read the whole thing.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (December 01, 2009 5:49 pm ET)
        5  
        Hoosier, your link is second hand reporting. Why do trolls never link to source material--preferring to link to filtered information?
        The link within your article is the source and is better reporting

        The Daily Collegian Online--Published independently by students at Penn State

        But that is not the point, is it. The point is for right-wing lackeys to drum up a controversy that ignores facts or evidence. You pretend that the accusation is sufficient to advance your agenda. You feverishly point to news reports of allegations as indications of guilt. But it cannot work.

        What you hacks forget is that controversies are like court trials where a verdict is based upon facts placed into evidence. Right wing hacks think that verdicts are based upon opening arguments followed by closing arguments, the very parts of a trial that are exempt from cross-examination and proof.


        Because you hapless trolls insist on following that method of "establishing" guilt (think of ACORN) you make a sad spectacle on forums that require facts and proof that will stand up to cross-examination and rebuttal.


        Report Abuse
        • Author by ScienceBuff (December 01, 2009 6:12 pm ET)
          4  
          From your article link:
          Mann said he understands the process and is glad the university is taking appropriate action.
          "I would be disappointed if the university wasn't doing all they can to get as much information as possible," Mann said. "I'm very happy they're doing it."

          You're right, it's always better to find the source documents. The excerpts printed on blogs are always suspect.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 01, 2009 9:49 pm ET)
          5  
          Why do trolls never link to source material--preferring to link to filtered information?

          Good question, aBeck. Some answers can be found by comparing the source and second-hand material (with my bold);

          Skeptics of climate change are calling the ongoing investigation "Climategate" and allege the leaked e-mails suggest the researchers -- including Mann -- had fabricated or manipulated data on global warming.


          That's not too bad, pretty fair. More than fair, in fact, calling GW deniers merely "skeptics". Now look at how the U.S. News packages it;

          Take "Climategate" at Penn State. That's what people are calling the controversy surrounding leaked E-mails among climate change researchers that climate change opponents say expose the researchers' falsification of data. One Penn State professor is involved in the scandal.


          See that ? "People" are calling it Climategate. There must be a scandal, not just allegations. The emails were only "leaked", not stolen, and there is a professor involved in the scandal.

          The origninal source is fairly responsible, noting allegations and both sides positions. The second has pre-chewed the facts, and put them in a nice package, doing all of the thinking. So much easier for the right wing "skeptic" to digest.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (December 02, 2009 5:38 am ET)
            2  
            Colonel, I am an MMFA apprentice. But I posed that rhetorical question, frustrated by yet another typical troll link. The bias contrast you noted was glaring to me, and I was in one of those unplayful "moods" today.
            While I have a few more "tricks" (wink!) to learn in fact-checking contrived quotes and links, I have found that in virtually all cases I can follow a trail of embedded links originating from a "pre-packaged" article and will eventually be taken to an original source which almost always contradicts the central distortions or falsehoods promoted in the troll-provided article. This holds true for articles at Newsmax and WND. It is truly educational--a virtual paper trail that reveals the anatomy of a lie, and I should probably thank the wingnuts for the fox hunt.

            Having said that, I would never want to discourage you from posting such a brilliant forensic analysis for public viewing and instruction.

            "Truth is not only violated by falsehood; it may be outraged by silence."
            -- Henri Amiel


            Report Abuse
            • Author by ScienceBuff (December 02, 2009 8:28 am ET)
              1  
              I like your style. Welcome to the site.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 02, 2009 11:46 am ET)
              2  
              aBeck, I realized it was a rhetorical question, I just took the opportunity to point out what you obviously already knew, just for fun. And to mix some metaphors with my pre-chewed, easily digestible package stuff.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by New Frontier (December 01, 2009 6:01 pm ET)
        6  
        They will investigate?!? They will review?! They will read and only then will they make a judgment?!! What a concept!! I don't think the kangaroo courts of deniers and wingnuts will approve of this un-American, innocent-until-proven-guilty thing.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jpeagle21 (December 01, 2009 6:40 pm ET)
        6
      Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! <Wigle Wiggle Wiggle> <Spin Spin Spin>

      The mask has been removed. The farce has been exposed.

      Just as an extra bonus (although unrelated to the destroyed climate data), here is a nice write-up fron Cafferty at CNN.

      http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/01/why-do-celebrities-who-travel-via-private-jet-tell-us-to-save-the-environment/
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ScienceBuff (December 01, 2009 6:55 pm ET)
        5  
        More denialist wet dreams. The science is solid, has withstood scrutiny for years and will continue to do so. Those emails don't say what you want to pretend they do.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by New Frontier (December 01, 2009 7:21 pm ET)
        5 1
        Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
        Some out-of-context emails cancel out decades of study by scientists and researchers around the world, the melting glaciers and the record, & rising temperatures. Because they're all liars and liberals. And because talk radio, blogs, Fox News, and I--say so.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 01, 2009 9:28 pm ET)
          3  
          But it is a good chance for wingnuts to roll around in some of their wealth envy by linking to off-topic articles about those damn Hollywood celebrities and their jets.

          Talk about not seeing the man behind the curtain.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (December 02, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
        2  
        You think that we don't know that Jack Cafferty is not a reliable source on this topic?

        He'll be the next one to go from CNN when they continue their purge of ideological commentators in their move to be non-partisan.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by gs-425 (December 02, 2009 8:31 am ET)
        4
      More semantics from MMfA....not "destroyed" but "deleted" Whatever.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ScienceBuff (December 02, 2009 9:47 am ET)
        2  
        Surely you're not that dense. It isn't a semantics issue between "destroyed" and "deleted." The point MMFA is making is that the data all still exists and can be obtained. It wasn't as though the only copies of it were destroyed, deleted or any other euphemism one might choose.

        Maybe you are that dense.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by gs-425 (December 02, 2009 10:40 am ET)
            3
          The fraud has been exposed for what those with common sense always knew. Like I said....whatever.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by ScienceBuff (December 02, 2009 10:49 am ET)
            2  
            Yes, the denialist frauds are being exposed for the liars they are. I assume that your failure to refute the facts I stated is a concession that you were wrong. Or lying.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by New Frontier (December 02, 2009 11:22 am ET)
        3  
        Whatever
        i.e., I don't care about science or facts. I can easily refute them by saying they are frauds and liars.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by gs-425 (December 02, 2009 1:32 pm ET)
            2
          Its a fraud
          Report Abuse
          • Author by aBeck in 10-O-C (December 02, 2009 2:12 pm ET)
            3  
            Like I said....whatever.
            Whateeeeeverrrrr
            Its a fraud


            Well okey dokey then.
            Boy you sure showed us how to raise the level of debate.
            Now go on back outside and play, valley girl
            Report Abuse
            • Author by tom7343 (December 03, 2009 4:31 am ET)
                 
              Often have questioned if the data involved was as important enough to keep on servers. With many of us we have to remove some files that, if not would completely overwhelm.
              Projects like these are not that well funded that could store all data like a Google or MS. Sure there must be decisions that require what to keep and what to save to keep moving forward.

              Wouldn't expect anyone here to keep the manual for their computer around very long after understanding how to use it.

              Last; Originally from New England and can testify that "Acid Rain" is real. The same industry groups have denied this for many years and are being supported by the voices who share there is no argument for Climate change today.
              Any one who likes fishing in that region knows very well about the changes in many lakes over the years.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by NonPartisan (December 03, 2009 3:52 pm ET)
                 
              Given that the RAW data still exists, how come no one seems to care about the interpereted DATA which is what's important here. For insteance that CRU had DENIDE access to outsiders to their work leading to their conclusions, which, is counter to the principles of science and also democracy. Secrecy is bad right? Also, how come we arn't adressing the remarks in the code or in the e-mails themselves? How do we explain these remarks away? They talk about tricks, in conjunction with hidding the decline in temperature increase and manipulating data to make it support thier conclusions. This is also non scientific. The conclusions should not be pre-guided desired results. Plus I think we forget these aren't just scientists we are talking about, they are political organizations with lots of money and therefore lots of power. Is it so hard to believe that there could have been some exageration at least? What are you veiws on these comments?
              Report Abuse
    • Author by spratico (December 03, 2009 6:05 pm ET)
         
      Hoosier, your link is second hand reporting. Why do trolls never link to source material--preferring to link to filtered information?

      Wow, you mean that having the original data adds more credibility to the conclusion?

      I agree...that's why the data shouldn't be discarded or 'lost', others (peers) may want to verify your conclusions.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ThePrinciple (December 03, 2009 8:00 pm ET)
         
      I am scientist out here in Berkeley who deals with presenting data sets and publishing do's and don'ts all the time. It is well-known among the scientific community that any data published by a group should be ready to be offered to anyone for inspection. With that, I have two issues with the CRU's credibility:

      1) How hard is it to keep a graph of the original data points? That would take up about one page of paper.

      2) A logical model should have been included in the Methods section of the paper that lays out the criteria used to adjust the data. This model could then be used to back-calculate to the original data points. If the exact adjustment method is not in the paper, then the transparency of the CRU's scientific method is suspect.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ThePrinciple (December 04, 2009 2:33 am ET)
         
      I am scientist out here in Berkeley who deals with presenting data sets and publishing do's and don'ts all the time. It is well-known among the scientific community that any data published by a group should be ready to be offered to anyone for inspection. With that, I have two issues with the CRU's credibility:

      1) How hard is it to keep a graph of the original data points? That would take up about one page of paper.

      2) A logical model should have been included in the Methods section of the paper that lays out the criteria used to adjust the data. This model could then be used to back-calculate to the original data points. If the exact adjustment method is not in the paper, then the transparency of the CRU's scientific method is suspect.
      Report Abuse

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