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Wash. Post lets Palin mislead readers on climate change

December 09, 2009 10:47 am ET — 81 Comments

On December 9, The Washington Post published an op-ed by Sarah Palin calling on President Obama to boycott the Copenhagen conference, which advanced several debunked claims about what recently stolen emails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) at the University of East Anglia "reveal" about the scientific consensus on man-made climate change, including the claims that climate scientists "manipulated data to 'hide the decline' in global temperatures, and tried to silence their critics by preventing them from publishing in peer-reviewed journals." Palin also claimed that "we can't say with assurance that man's activities cause weather changes."

From Palin's December 9 Washington Post op-ed:

"Climate-gate," as the e-mails and other documents from the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia have become known, exposes a highly politicized scientific circle -- the same circle whose work underlies efforts at the Copenhagen climate change conference. The agenda-driven policies being pushed in Copenhagen won't change the weather, but they would change our economy for the worse.

The e-mails reveal that leading climate "experts" deliberately destroyed records, manipulated data to "hide the decline" in global temperatures, and tried to silence their critics by preventing them from publishing in peer-reviewed journals. What's more, the documents show that there was no real consensus even within the CRU crowd. Some scientists had strong doubts about the accuracy of estimates of temperatures from centuries ago, estimates used to back claims that more recent temperatures are rising at an alarming rate.

[...]

That's not to say I deny the reality of some changes in climate -- far from it. I saw the impact of changing weather patterns firsthand while serving as governor of our only Arctic state. I was one of the first governors to create a subcabinet to deal specifically with the issue and to recommend common-sense policies to respond to the coastal erosion, thawing permafrost and retreating sea ice that affect Alaska's communities and infrastructure.

But while we recognize the occurrence of these natural, cyclical environmental trends, we can't say with assurance that man's activities cause weather changes. We can say, however, that any potential benefits of proposed emissions reduction policies are far outweighed by their economic costs.

CLAIM: Scientists "manipulated data to 'hide the decline' in global temperatures"

REALITY: "Decline" refers to unreliable tree-ring data, not actual temperatures. A November 26 article in The Morning Call of Allentown, Pennsylvania, reported that Penn State scientist Michael Mann "said his trick, or 'trick of the trade,' for the Nature chart was to combine data from tree-ring measurements, which record world temperatures from 1,000 years ago until 1960, with actual temperature readings for 1961 through 1998" because "scientists have discovered that, for temperatures since 1960, tree rings have not been a reliable indicator." In a November 20 post, RealClimate.org's staff, which is comprised of several working climate scientists, including Mann, similarly stated:

As for the 'decline', it is well known that Keith Briffa's maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the "divergence problem"-see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while 'hiding' is probably a poor choice of words (since it is 'hidden' in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.

CLAIM: Scientists "tried to silence their critics by preventing them from publishing in peer-reviewed journals"

REALITY: Mann's email cited specific paper that Climate Research editors and publisher conceded should not have been published. Although Palin does not cite specific emails to support her claim, critics have frequently pointed to a March 11, 2003, email in which Mann wrote that a paper by astrophysicists Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas "couldn't have cleared a 'legitimate' peer review process anywhere. That leaves only one possibility -- that the peer-review process at Climate Research has been hijacked by a few skeptics on the editorial board." Mann further stated, "I think we have to stop considering 'Climate Research' as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal. We would also need to consider what we tell or request of our more reasonable colleagues who currently sit on the editorial board..." Contrary to Palin's suggestion that Mann targeted the journal because it published work of his "critics," The Washington Post itself previously reported that the email suggested a boycott of Climate Research "because it had agreed to publish a paper they viewed as flawed." Indeed, The New York Times reported on August 5, 2003, that the Soon-Baliunas paper "has been heavily criticized by many scientists, including several of the journal editors. The editors said last week that whether or not the conclusions were correct, the analysis was deeply flawed." The Times further noted that the "publisher of the journal, Dr. Otto Kinne, and an editor who recently became editor in chief, Dr. Hans von Storch, both said that in retrospect the paper should not have been published as written" and that von Storch resigned, "saying he disagreed with the peer-review policies":

Advocates for cuts in emissions and scientists who hold the prevailing view on warming said the hearing backfired. It proved more convincingly, they said, that the skeptical scientists were a fringe element that had to rely increasingly on industry money and peripheral scientific journals to promote their work.

The hearing featured Dr. Willie Soon, an astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and a co-author of a study, with Dr. Sallie Baliunas, also an astrophysicist at the center, that said the 20th-century warming trend was unremarkable compared with other climate shifts over the last 1,000 years.

But the Soon-Baliunas paper, published in the journal Climate Research this year, has been heavily criticized by many scientists, including several of the journal editors. The editors said last week that whether or not the conclusions were correct, the analysis was deeply flawed.

The publisher of the journal, Dr. Otto Kinne, and an editor who recently became editor in chief, Dr. Hans von Storch, both said that in retrospect the paper should not have been published as written. Dr. Kinne defended the journal and its process of peer review, but distanced himself from the paper.

"I have not stood behind the paper by Soon and Baliunas," he wrote in an e-mail message. "Indeed: the reviewers failed to detect methodological flaws."

Dr. von Storch, who was not involved in overseeing the paper, resigned last week, saying he disagreed with the peer-review policies.

The Senate hearing also focused new scrutiny on Dr. Soon and Dr. Baliunas's and ties to advocacy groups. The scientists also receive income as senior scientists for the George C. Marshall Institute, a Washington group that has long fought limits on gas emissions. The study in Climate Research was in part underwritten by $53,000 from the American Petroleum Institute, the voice of the oil industry.

Mann: "I support the publication of 'skeptical' papers that meet the basic standards of scientific quality and merit." In response to the controversy surrounding the emails, Mann said that his email "[w]as in response to a very specific incident regarding a paper by Soon and Baliunas published in the journal 'Climate Research.' " Mann further stated: "I support the publication of 'skeptical' papers that meet the basic standards of scientific quality and merit. I myself have published scientific work that has been considered by some as representing a skeptical point of view on matters relating to climate change."

CLAIM: "[W]e can't say with assurance that man's activities cause weather changes"

REALITY: IPCC found greater than 90 percent chance that most of temperature increase over 50 years is due to human-caused greenhouse gas concentrations. The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder noted Palin's "conflation here of 'weather' and climate; it's ridiculous to try and change the weather, of course -- weather is so variable and unpredictable. What the Copenhagen negotiators want to change is humanity's contribution to global climate change." As Joseph Romm stated on ClimateProgress.org in reponse to Palin's assertion, "In fact, we can say with assurance that man's activities cause the very climate change she points to -- thawing permafrost and retreating sea ice. That is precisely what the IPCC's [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] 2007 review of the scientific literature concluded, that there is a better than 90% chance humans are the cause of most of the recent warming." Indeed, the IPCC's 2007 "Synthesis Report" concluded that "[w]arming of the climate system is unequivocal, as is now evident from observations of increases in global average air and ocean temperatures, widespread melting of snow and ice and rising global average sea level" and that "[m]ost of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely [defined in the report as a ">90%" chance] due to the observed increase in anthropogenic [human-caused] GHG [greenhouse gas] concentrations." Indeed, the Post itself reported that the panel, "made up of hundreds of scientists from 113 countries, said that based on new research over the last six years, it is 90 percent certain that human-generated greenhouse gases account for most of the global rise in temperatures over the past half-century." The IPCC report also specifically rebuts the suggestion that natural causes are primarily responsible for global warming in the last 50 years:

The observed widespread warming of the atmosphere and ocean, together with ice mass loss, support the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely [less than 5 percent chance] that global climate change of the past 50 years can be explained without external forcing and very likely that it is not due to known natural causes alone. During this period, the sum of solar and volcanic forcings would likely [greater than 66 percent chance] have produced cooling, not warming.

IPCC: "Thousands of scientists from all over the world contribute to the work of the IPCC." The IPCC, which is a scientific body established by the United Nations and the World Meteorological Organization, has established that "[w]arming of the climate system is unequivocal." The IPCC "reviews and assesses the most recent scientific, technical and socio-economic information produced worldwide," and its reports are the product of contributions from "[t]housands of scientists from all over the world."

IPCC chair: "[T]horoughness and the duration of the process" eliminates "any possibility of omissions or distortions." In a statement on the reported theft of the CRU emails, IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri stated that "the I.P.C.C. as a body follows impartial, open and objective assessment of every aspect of climate change carried out with complete transparency" and that "[t]he entire report writing process of the I.P.C.C. is subjected to extensive and repeated review by experts as well as governments." From Pachauri's statement:

It is unfortunate that an illegal act of accessing private email communications between scientists who have been involved as authors in I.P.C.C. assessments in the past has led to several questions and concerns. It is important for me to clarify that the I.P.C.C. as a body follows impartial, open and objective assessment of every aspect of climate change carried out with complete transparency. IPCC relies entirely on peer reviewed literature in carrying out its assessment and follows a process that renders it unlikely that any peer reviewed piece of literature, however contrary to the views of any individual author, would be left out. The entire report writing process of the I.P.C.C. is subjected to extensive and repeated review by experts as well as governments. Consequently, there is at every stage full opportunity for experts in the field to draw attention to any piece of literature and its basic findings that would ensure inclusion of a wide range of views. There is, therefore, no possibility of exclusion of any contrarian views, if they have been published in established journals or other publications which are peer reviewed.

[...]

In summary, no individual or small group of scientists is in a position to exclude a peer-reviewed paper from an I.P.C.C. assessment. Likewise, individuals and small groups have no ability to emphasize a result that is not consistent with a range of studies, investigations, and approaches. Every layer in the process (including large author teams, extensive review, independent monitoring of review compliance, and plenary approval by governments) plays a major role in keeping I.P.C.C. assessments comprehensive, unbiased, open to the identification of new literature, and policy relevant but not policy prescriptive.

The unfortunate incident that has taken place through illegal hacking of the private communications of individual scientists only highlights the importance of I.P.C.C. procedures and practices and the thoroughness by which the Panel carries out its assessment. This thoroughness and the duration of the process followed in every assessment ensure the elimination of any possibility of omissions or distortions, intentional or accidental.

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    • Author by Bad News (December 09, 2009 10:56 am ET)
      4 4
      Sarah Palin, Where do i Begin?
      How do i Discredit your Cunning & Maniacal Spin?
      Should i call her a Clown, Should i call her a Loon?
      Are my Tactics working Sarah, Does the World know your Subversive Toon?

      Speak truth to power.


      Mr. News
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 12:48 pm ET)
        4 8
        Instead of calling her names and engaging in character assassination, why don't you try engaging her based upon her position on the issues? When you call someone names, it means they basically have you beat. You can't really dispute Sarah on the substance of the issues, can you?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 7:01 pm ET)
          5 2
          When you call someone names, it means they basically have you beat.

          That's a pretty common misconception. While it might be true that some people will call names when they don't have an argument, the converse isn't necessarily true.

          In some cases, Palin for example, there's such a lack of substance, or the weakness of her positions has already been exposed so thoroughly, that a respectful rebuttal isn't deserved.

          On the positive side, if sane people can have a laugh at her, she's good for something.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne1 (December 09, 2009 9:34 pm ET)
            5  
            Simple Sarah has one talent only. Self promotion. What she has to say on serious issues is not credible and she deserves any derision being bandied her way. If she wants respect, she has to earn it, and she hasn't. Pretty simple.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 5:56 am ET)
          1  
          Jindal/Swindle --

          "When you call someone names, it means they basically have you beat."

          I guess that explains the reaction we get from a lot of the deniers.


          Just keep sending them up. I'll be happy to swat 'em out of the park.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by thebrian57 (December 10, 2009 11:54 am ET)
             
          The entire article above disputed Palin on the issues.Do you people ever let reality influence your 'opinions'?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by cugagcmu805031 (December 09, 2009 11:09 am ET)
      6 3
      Palin doesn't know what she's talking about because she doesn't feel it is necessary to know much of anything, just smile and wink. When O'Reilly asked her whether she could be president, she said yes, because she has common-sense. It must be her brand of common-sense because I've never known her to make any sense on any topic she speaks/writes about. She is an example of the blind leading the blind.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by the Grey Path (December 09, 2009 2:45 pm ET)
        4 1
        Oh please ... She didn't write that editorial. She just signed her name to something Exxon-Mobile did for her.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by youcrackmeup (December 09, 2009 9:41 pm ET)
           
        And this comes from a person that says earth was 8,000 degree ball of rock 4.4 billion years ago, and some how created an atmosphere to sustain life and then Humans started tracking Data 150 years ago and now say that Global warming is man made? And some of the Data being presented is in question, are YOU serious that you have common sense? Or maybe your stuck on political party line.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Lizinbklyn (December 09, 2009 11:10 am ET)
      6 3
      PALIN DID NOT PERSONALLY WRITE THE OP-ED!!

      She probably didn't even read it . .

      You all know it, I know it . .

      SWOOOOSH, she's an intellect, yeah right . .

      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (December 09, 2009 11:29 am ET)
        6  
        Absolutely. The same King-Makers who put Numbnuts Bush in office are trying to top their previous trick by proving that they can get any fool elected to high office.

        They will grease the skids and attempt to create another shell President, like they did in 2000. The question is, will Darth Cheney be alive and healthy enough in 2012 to act as the puppeteer, or will they have to find somebody else?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by coldteablues19577325 (December 09, 2009 12:10 pm ET)
          2  
          "will Darth Cheney be alive and healthy enough in 2012 to act as the puppeteer, or will they have to find somebody else?"

          Ermmmmmmmm, they're not grooming his daughter for nothing are they?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by jeff191 (December 09, 2009 3:47 pm ET)
               
            As long as he keeps up with his diet of the blood of virgins drank under a full moon he can live forever
            Report Abuse
      • Author by rtwmd1230 (December 09, 2009 12:31 pm ET)
        7  
        She started to read it, but quit halfway through.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 12:49 pm ET)
        1 1
        And your proof of this is what? Please cite evidence proving that she neither read nor wrote it.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (December 09, 2009 8:15 pm ET)
          2  
          The finished product is beyond her demonstrated capabilities, that's why.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:37 pm ET)
               
            And you know her capabilities how? Your opinion is hardly conclusive proof that she did not write it. In a debate w/o TelePrompters she would wipe the floor with Obama.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by jeff191 (December 10, 2009 12:07 pm ET)
             
          please insert sense of humour now. it was a jab at her quitting her job as governor.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by jayhammers (December 10, 2009 2:28 am ET)
        1  
        Well no crap, we've all heard how she talks. Someone who talks like that could never write anything meaningful.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Andrew30 (December 09, 2009 11:21 am ET)
        1
      There are Vikings buried in permafrost in Greenland.
      The permafrost is not disturbed.
      It was not frozen when they were buried.
      I would call that warmer then today, a lot warmer.


      The Fate of Greenland's Vikings February 28, 2000 by Dale Mackenzie Brown
      http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/greenland/

      Story of Viking Colonies' Icy 'Pompeii' Unfolds From Ancient Greenland Farm
      Published in New York Times: Tuesday, May 8, 2001
      http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/08/science/08VIKI.html?ex=1156132800&en=921840c080c26c01&ei=5070

      The Viking farm under the sand in Greenland by Terese Brasen April 23, 2001
      http://www.expressnews.ualberta.ca/print.cfm?id=776


      For a satirical look at the climategate computer programming (hiding the decline):

      Anthropogenic Global Warming Virus Alert.

      www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s5i64103
      Report Abuse
    • Author by SLRTX (December 09, 2009 12:02 pm ET)
      1 1
      Palin's set a new low on how to lie in her new book. Even her conservative friends (now former friends) say she's lying.

      She can see a whole new reality from her porch - and it doesn't line up with any reality we know of.

      By the way, here's an editorial from the WAPO - in favor of AGW!

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/24/AR2009112403549.html
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 12:50 pm ET)
          1
        About what is she lying? The conservative movement has most certainly not abandoned her. Amongst Republicans her approval rate is 79%. Amongst conservatives it is 87%. This is not abandonment. She is the heroine and the leader of the conservative movement. You folks mock her precisely because you fear her.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by detoth67 (December 09, 2009 6:57 pm ET)
          1  
          Actually she is a compulsive liar, as are just about every conservative I've met! She lied about everything mentioned above, she lied about "death panels".

          If you think that is the future of conservatism and you admire her, that says more about YOU, than it does anything else. If conservatism can't do any better than Palin, your party is DEAD!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:40 pm ET)
               
            Actually I do think Sarah is the leader of the conservative movement. She is Ronald Reagan Part II. She will lead a conservative revival.

            If a government bureaucrat has the ability to deny someone care on the basis of cost efficiency, that is a death panel. If someone dies as a result of a decision made by a bureaucrat, that is a death panel. Sarah expressed her opinion on Obamacare - this is not a lie.

            Do you want government bureaucrats making decision on whether or not to deny you life saving medical treatment. I for one do not so I will pass on Obamacare.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 7:45 pm ET)
                 
              "Do you want government bureaucrats making decision on whether or not to deny you life saving medical treatment."

              No. But I don't want an insurance company doing that either - AS IT DOES NOW!
              Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (December 09, 2009 8:19 pm ET)
          1  
          MMFA has documented many of her falsehoods from her book.

          Do some research, instead of having kneejerk reactions, then get back to us.

          And you need to look at current results, not old polls.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:42 pm ET)
               
            I can do better than research. Unlike you, I have actually read teh book (twice). I would daresay I am more familiar with her record than you are.

            Two days ago (current enough?) Rasmussen put her favorability rating at 79% amongst Republicans and 87% amongst conservatives. This is more than enough to win the nomination.

            When unemployment hits 15% and inflation hits 20% whoever the GOP nominates will win 40 states. Get used to hearing the phrase President Palin.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 7:44 pm ET)
                 
              So you'll read Palin's book, but you won't back ANY of your baseless claims on AGW with even one url.

              Is SHE your vast source of information on AGW?
              Report Abuse
        • Author by Boxer1979 (December 09, 2009 8:23 pm ET)
          1 1
          She is the heroine and the leader of the conservative movement. You folks mock her precisely because you fear her.

          LMAO!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:43 pm ET)
               
            Why do you not mock Romney, Pawlenty, Huckabee et al? YOu don't fear them. If you really thought Sarah was a weak candidate you would be pushing her candidacy. She is the last person you want to see as the GOP nominee because you know she would beat Obama. If you didn't think so, you would be advocating on her behalf. She scares the hell out of liberals.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 7:42 pm ET)
                 
              Actually, I DO want her to be the GOP (or is it the Tea Party now?) candidate.

              She's a narcissistic quitter. She can't even finish 1 term in office as governor of Alaska.

              If that's the best the "moral values" wackos can do, then by all means, PLEASE nominate her!

              You betcha!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by jeff191 (December 11, 2009 2:59 pm ET)
                 
              because romney, huckabee etc. are qualified to represent the GOP. sarah Palin is clearly not even close
              Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (December 09, 2009 8:26 pm ET)
          1  
          I'm sure McCain would select her again as a running mate!

          His campaign staff would be just ducky to have her on board.

          But, they'd have to crawl out from under the bus first!

          And her folks sure handled the 23rd district just dandy. Actually got a Democrat in there. First one in over 150 years. I bet the real Republican candidate, Dierdre Scozzafava felt Palin was a big help on that one.

          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/nov/17/fact-checking-new-claims-palin-book/

          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/personalities/sarah-palin/

          http://mediamatters.org/research/200911160006

          And of course, we have the death panel claim:
          http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/aug/10/palin-death-panel-remark-sets-truth-o-meter-fire/

          Fear her? That's like saying we have a "deep-seated hatred for white people."
          Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (December 09, 2009 8:30 pm ET)
            1  
            And Bobby Jindal's an ignorant (or stupid, or lying) Intelligent Design advocate. He want's to mislead impressionable children in school that the universe was magically created by some mystic all-knowing being.

            He thinks it's better going with that explanation than using real science.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:44 pm ET)
                 
              Bobby Jindal is a Rhodes Scholar with a PhD from Oxford. Most morons don't get Rhodes scholarships.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 4:41 pm ET)
                   
                So when he claims ID is science, he should know better, and that definitely makes him a liar - and possibly a child abuser.

                Anyone who pushes that ID nonsense as science on school children is abusing them.
                Report Abuse
        • Author by jeff191 (December 10, 2009 12:09 pm ET)
             
          fear her? I am praying that she wins the GOP nomination in 2012. Obama wouldnt even have to show up at the debates to win.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by shaggles (December 09, 2009 12:11 pm ET)
      5  
      Why would anyone care what Sarah Palin says about climate change?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 12:31 pm ET)
        7  
        That made me laugh too Shaggles.

        " Hello President Obama (if that is your real name), this is the embarrassing clown of a candidate that the GOP picked to rile up the far right wingnuts. Remember, I'm the completely unqualified fundy from Alaska that put the coup de grace on the sickly McCain campaign, helpin you get into the White House ?

        If you're not too busy palling around with terrorists, would you mind not going to Copenhagen where all of those science-y elitists are going to be talkin' about the weather and stuff? Worryin' about long-term things like that sorta make people think maybe the Rapture isn't comin', and they may start thinkin' about things.Us right wingers are having a hard enough time without people thinking more.

        Thanks, S."
        Report Abuse
        • Author by shaggles (December 09, 2009 2:36 pm ET)
          2  
          "Worryin' about long-term things like that sorta make people think maybe the Rapture isn't comin'..."

          HA! I never thought of it like that. You may be on to something.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by the Grey Path (December 09, 2009 2:48 pm ET)
            5 1
            Absolutely. Look at every decision the Bush Administration made from the perspective that the second coming will occur in this generation ...

            See any fit?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by LKL (December 09, 2009 3:39 pm ET)
              2 1
              I agree - I think the belief that armaggedon (or whatever it's called) is coming soon really does underlie some people's nonchalant attitude towards global warming. Why bother to spend all that money to fix it when all the righteous people will be gwyne up to heaven in a few years?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by jeff191 (December 09, 2009 3:51 pm ET)
                4  
                When Jesus comes down to earth and sees that we have not used up all of the gifts that god has provided for mankind, he will be very angry. This is a rough quote from James Watt, Rayguns sec of interior
                Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 6:56 pm ET)
              3 1
              I see a good fit with the general short-term thinking of the GOP and religious fundamentalists.

              I listen to a lot of righty radio when I'm on the road, and more than once I've heard a host get a caller that was very agreeable to their position on some Big Picture issue(Climate change, health care, poverty, the economy, etc.), only to cut that person off as they got deeper into the reasons for their ideology. Namely, we're only here for a short time, God has a Grand Plan that we can't affect, we're just going to a better place soon anyway.

              The right plays on this mentality, and depends on this base being suckered into voting Republican, but they like to keep up a rational facade, and seem a little nervous when it comes out in the open.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by jeff191 (December 10, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
                   
                same kind of short term thinking exhibited by both parties ,but ecspecially GOP, that wants to dereguate everything for short term profits, with little thought about the future. Lots of exec's in wall street firms admit that they knew the sub-prime loan policies would come back to haunt us, but wereto profitable to turn down
                Report Abuse
        • Author by jcgrim (December 09, 2009 4:30 pm ET)
            1
          Bwahahahahahahahahaha!
          Report Abuse
      • Author by jeff191 (December 09, 2009 3:49 pm ET)
        2  
        I know climate change is a myth because ya know its still cold in Alaska.You Betcha
        Report Abuse
    • Author by pongotwistleton (December 09, 2009 12:14 pm ET)
      3 4
      Off topic, but does anybody have any links describing the deal reached by senate democrats, dispensing with the public option? I'm particularly interested to learn how this new proposal will drive down premiums and create real competition. From the vague articles I've read so far, it sounds like more of the same bs, and will do nothing to curtail the always rising premiums. How does this new proposal deal with coverage for those with pre-existing conditions? I can't find any detailed articles. . . .
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 12:34 pm ET)
        2  
        Here's a pretty detailed video.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (December 09, 2009 1:22 pm ET)
             
          hahaha...thanks Col. that made my day! :-)
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 1:39 pm ET)
            4 1
            I don't really understand the posters who wander onto a thread asking if anybody can help them find information on a major news story unrelated to the topic.

            Is it just trolling, an opportunity for a wingnut to take pride in the Repooplicans doing everything they can to screw up any attempt to fix our health care system, or do right wingers really need help doing these simple things ?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (December 09, 2009 2:06 pm ET)
              3  
              Tough choices they do seem to need alot of help in seperating fact from fiction. If anything your video should keep him occupied trying to figure out what you meant. Hehe!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 5:32 am ET)
              1  
              Col.--

              Even though this is the bloggosphere, I can smell a rat.

              So, someone who knows what the internet is, sets up an account here, and blog, doesn't know how to google something?

              Give me a break.

              Nice try pongotwistleton, but we "elitists" are smarter than that.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by deansilverman (December 09, 2009 12:38 pm ET)
         
      we need to wake up their are pepole at work that are not looking out for us watch http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/745.html
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 7:25 pm ET)
           
        You're right, Dean, and Stossel ( who seems to be aligned with the Competitive Enterprise Institute) is only one of many Climate Change denial Cult members misinforming the public.

        Fortunately, I think more people are waking up, but there are a lot of Stossell's and Palin's out there catapulting the propaganda. Props to you for keeping an eye on them.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 12:51 pm ET)
           
        Stossel follows the usual denier path.

        Deny the facts, and put up a bunch of emotionally-charged crap that doesn't counter the evidence of AGW.

        Stossel focused on Al Gore's movie, as if that was the final word in AGW. Yes, the movie has problems. But Gore's not one of the many scientists who've studied this issue. He plays to the emotions on the other side. He's almost as bad as the deniers.

        Stossel focused on the possible effects of AGW. AGW itself is no longer debated among serious scientists who know the data. (That's the part that's referred to when they say "there's no debate.") But the possible effects of AGW are still being debated. That part is still unknown. What IS becoming clearer, and more frightening, is the rate of glacial melting. Forget the ocean levels. A lot of people depend on drinking water from glaciers. Once they are gone, it's going to be a major problem. And we're starting to see it now. That's why the military in many countries are nervous about how to control populations that are affected by lack of drinking water.

        Stossel mentioned how the CO2 levels on Al's chart lagged behind historical temps should have been mentioned. I agree. Al "conveniently" left that part out. Scientists know what caused this, and because of that, it is one more reason to prove the recent trends - which match or preceded warming is much different than the historical record - evidence of AGW. Stossel "conveniently" left that part out.

        Stossel also mentioned that tired old argument that the sun plays a role in this. There's clear evidence the sun is NOT a contributor. Satellite data proves this. As a matter of fact, the sun's output has decreased the last several years, but warming continues. If these scientists were really current with the data, they'd know this. Perhaps they do....
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 12:52 pm ET)
      2 1
      If the evidence of "global warming" is so overwhelming and conclusive why is it necessary to lie about data and censure dissent? They can't explain why the earth has cooled over the past ten years, so they cover it up. This is the abandonment of science in favor of ideology.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 6:37 pm ET)
        2  
        ...why is it necessary to lie about data and censure dissent?

        Who did those things ?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 5:40 am ET)
           
        Jindal/Swindle --

        "If the evidence of "global warming" is so overwhelming and conclusive why is it necessary to lie about data and censure dissent?"

        I'm with the Col on this one - who did that? Did someone tell you that? Typical denier fact-checking: I heard it on Fox, I read it at my favorite web sites, and it meets my pre-conceived notions about AGW. So it must be true!

        --------------------
        "They can't explain why the earth has cooled over the past ten years, so they cover it up."

        Yes they can. The answer - it didn't happen. You must be misinformed by your sources. Ever consider changing sources?

        http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-climate_09int.ART.State.Edition1.4bb7c38.html

        ------------------
        "This is the abandonment of science in favor of ideology."

        Yep. You certainly are abandoning science in favor of ideology.


        You deniers think we "elitists" just like to sit back and make fun of you. Well, you certainly give us a lot of ammo, when you make statements like this. You may want to reconsider joining the real world. Y'know the real world? That's were we deal in reality. It's not too late. We'll be more than happy to accept converts to our "religion".
        Report Abuse
    • Author by unwashedmind (December 09, 2009 2:13 pm ET)
         
      Until fairly recently there has not been any sort of uniform effort to gather world temperature data of the sort needed to determine whether or not the planet as a whole is warming. For the period prior to the advent of world geophysical surveys, scientists have relied heavily upon tree ring data as a proxy for global temperature readings. When it turns out that the tree ring proxy model of temperature does not agree well with actual temperature data for the last 50 years, for which we have actual reliable temperature data i.e. since 1960, this calls the whole model into question. What should we call splicing two data sets together to hide the fact that the method used to derive earlier temperatures from tree rings breaks down when compared with actual temperature data if not manipulation?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (December 09, 2009 8:22 pm ET)
           
        Here's a good site that addresses a lot of the most common misconceptions of GW deniers.

        Tree ring data is only one source used, that's why scientists began questioning how reliable it was, the disagreement with data from other sources.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 5:49 am ET)
          1  
          Col -

          It's sooooo easy to find this stuff, and the raw data. The deniers whine about how no one can get access to it! I can. So can anyone.

          I especially like the troposphere / stratosphere data. It pounds the nail in the coffin of the so-called sun effect causing the current warming trend.

          But deniers won't look at it, because it's an "inconvenient truth."

          I'm sure Steve (one-hit-wonder) McIntyre has already debunked that data, like he claims he did with Mann's data. He's just waiting for the right moment to pounce.

          Waiting.... waiting.... Oh well, I give up. May as well go with the scientists on this one. ;-)
          Report Abuse
    • Author by louc (December 09, 2009 3:25 pm ET)
      1  
      It's not stupidity on Sarah Palin's part...or perhaps it is and she didn't really govern while governor of Alaska.

      In early 2008, she had a climate change subcommittee.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by fantagor (December 09, 2009 5:11 pm ET)
      3 1
      Printing an op ed on climate changed written by Sarah Palin makes less sense than hiring people from the Lighthouse for the Blind to paint your house. She not only completely lacks any authoritative knowledge on the issue; she obviously didn’t author this pack of lies and distortions. Once again, she signed her name to a ghost written piece -- just like her book.

      Someone should call Ghost Writer Busters so Palin has to actually pen an article, the first ever submitted to the Washington Post in brown crayon.

      Randy
      Report Abuse
    • Author by rms (December 09, 2009 5:28 pm ET)
      3 1
      Since the Washington Post feels that Sarah is a climate expert, let me propose that they (or they convince one of the Sunday morning talk shows to) invite her and Al Gore in for a friendly debate. Let's see if Al can keep up his side of the issue and not be out-facted by Ms. Palin.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:46 pm ET)
           
        Al Gore refuses to debate anyone. Al Gore can not back up a single thing he says. I would love to see Sarah debate Gore. She would wipe the floor with him as the facts are clearly on her side. Gore is a charlatan out to line his own pocket.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 4:37 pm ET)
             
          Jin-

          Al Gore! Al Gore! Al Gore!

          The denier's fixation on Al Gore is beyond bizarre.

          What in the world does Al Gore have to do with the facts of AGW?

          Are you deniers implying Al Gore invented AGW?

          Is that the best proof against AGW that you an come with? Al Gore?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by musickman1 (December 09, 2009 6:42 pm ET)
         
      c'mon, guys, gotta love the gal's spunk (that is not an innuendo!)
      she's a cheap shill for the worst elements of the right - anti-science (be it evolutionary "theory" or climate change) and staunchly in the anti-intellectual, paranoid right camp. oh, yeah, and from the believing in santa-jesus perspective - nuts! (i'm sure y'all have seen her getting excorcized of "witches" (?!) at crazychurch in wasilla. if not, youtube - "palin + kenyan priest + excorcism" oughtta do it).
      i thought mencken had already been proven right with Big Dubya, but if all this anti-obama rancor boils over, his words may yet prove to be truer still:
      ... All the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.' The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
      H. L. Mencken, Baltimore Sun (26 July 1920)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (December 09, 2009 8:13 pm ET)
      1 1
      About 2 years or so ago, when the buzz words were "global warming", anyone using "climate change" here was chastized by many. In the last few months, "climate change" has been creeping more and more into the lead on many stories here and at other places of like thought. What brought about the change? Is it the same type of phenomenon that has turned the basic tenents of the political parties about 180 degrees over the past several generations?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (December 09, 2009 11:47 pm ET)
           
        It is because they can't explain why the earth has been cooling for the past ten years. Since "global warming" is an obvious fraud they need to rebrand their socialist redistributionist scams.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by chrisd3 (December 10, 2009 7:30 am ET)
           
        What brought about the change?

        If you actually want the answer to your question, read this 2002 report from [i]Republican[/] pollster/consultant Frank Luntz, where he tells Republican bigwigs how to talk. See in particular page 142, titled "Conclusion: Redefining Labels". Look for the paragraph that leads with "'Climate change' is less frightening than 'global warming'".

        While you're there, look at all the little boxes labeled "Words that work" and "Language that works". And look at his talking points: the science isn't settled...concentrate on the fairness of international treaties...20 years ago scientists were predicting a new Ice Age [which is categorically false]...stress job losses and required changes in lifestyle...

        Any of that sound at all familiar?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (December 10, 2009 5:41 pm ET)
           
        oscar

        Are deniers that incompetent, that they have to come to MMFA to get answers to their questions? Are they really that incapable of finding facts out on their own? Oh, but of course. That's how they become a denier. Not a clue about how to get the facts about anything.

        "'Climate change' refers to the variation in the Earth's global or regional climates over time. It describes changes in the atmosphere over time scales ranging from weeks to decades to millions of years. These changes can be caused by natural processes internal to the Earth, such as continental drift, which affects ocean currents, external forces, such as variations in sunlight intensity, or human activities.

        'Global warming' has come to refer to an increase in average global temperatures as influenced by increased greenhouse gas concentrations without regard to other factors that may cause climate to change"

        From: http://coaps.fsu.edu/climate_center/climatechange.shtml

        Wow. That was hard.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Boxer1979 (December 09, 2009 8:21 pm ET)
         
      Wash. Post lets Palin mislead readers on climate change

      I think "Going Rogue" did enough on misleading readers period.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mookie von zipper (December 09, 2009 9:41 pm ET)
        1
      wapost lets palin mislead readers?... apparently she's fooled everyone except media matters... but even mm recognizes they ran it in their op-ed section, not page 1 or a science section...

      palin is as qualified as any other political hack to write an opinion piece on global warming, as policies in this area, pro and con, will be written largely by career bozos and their underlings from both parties, depending on who enjoys power at the time...

      reporting from murderland ranch,
      i'm mookie von zipper
      massmurdermedia

      Report Abuse
    • Author by rrastro (December 09, 2009 10:04 pm ET)
         
      translated, tree rings since 1968 were not showing a steep enough increase.....sigh
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Reinhard (December 10, 2009 8:18 am ET)
         
      The reasoning behind Caribou Barbie's position is made clear in this sentence:
      From Palin's op-ed piece...
      " We can say, however, that any potential benefits of proposed emissions reduction policies are far outweighed by their economic costs. "

      What one thing could be possibly deemed worse than the health and welfare of your fellow beings?

      GREED
      Simple as that.

      Good thing her god made her pretty on the outside 'cause she sure is ugly on the inside.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by dunman1 (December 10, 2009 1:40 pm ET)
      1  
      Sarah Palin- a quitter you can believe in.
      Report Abuse

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