About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

Newsmax cites Franken-Coleman race to baselessly hype fears of a "stolen election" in MA

January 18, 2010 5:42 pm ET — 76 Comments

In a January 18 Newsmax.com article, managing editor David A. Patten raises the prospect of a "stolen election" in the race for Massachusetts' open Senate seat by citing "fears that a close election could trigger the same type of recount process that saw former GOP Sen. Norm Coleman's lead over then-challenger Al Franken steadily evaporate in Minnesota." However, the Minnesota Supreme Court stated that "[n]o claim of fraud in the election or during the recount was made by either" Franken or Coleman, and experts reportedly said that there was a "lack of crookedness in" Minnesota that debunks claims that the Minnesota election was stolen.

Newsmax: Franken-Coleman shows risk of "stolen election" in MA

In the article, Patten repeatedly raises the possibility that the election between Democrat Martha Coakley and Republican Scott Brown would be "stolen" by Democrats given the race between Franken and then-Sen. Norm Coleman. From the article, headlined "Republican Fears of Stolen Election Grow in Massachusetts":

The specter of Minnesota's bitterly contested election contest between Al Franken and Norm Coleman now hangs over Tuesday's special election in Massachusetts, with Republicans and conservative pundits warning that anything less than a clear-cut victory for GOP challenger Scott Brown over Democrat Martha Coakley risks a "stolen election."

Brown appears to be surging. Increasingly desperate in the campaign's waning days to save their supermajority in Congress, Democrats are doing everything they possibly can to keep the seat.

Several Obama advisers have told Democratic Party officials in recent days that the administration expects Coakley is likely to lose the election Tuesday, CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry reported.

President Obama's last-minute visit on Coakley's behalf Sunday coincided with a flurry of attack ads against Brown. The ads' accusations are so flagrant that Brown's campaign has announced it plans legal action.

John Fund, the election expert, author, and Wall Street Journal online commentator, told Newsmax that Brown probably has to win by at least 20,000 votes to avoid "the margin of litigation."

Republicans are crowding the blogosphere with fears that a close election could trigger the same type of recount process that saw former GOP Sen. Norm Coleman's lead over then-challenger Al Franken steadily evaporate in Minnesota.

"Actual vote stealing will occur" on Tuesday, Fund told Newsmax. But he expects it will be reduced "because ACORN is discredited and adrift and there are serious anti-fraud efforts being mounted."

[...]

"They're very much aware of how to stuff ballot boxes," [NewsBusters.org associate editor Noel] Sheppard said. "They obviously know how to play the game. They obviously stole the Franken seat several months ago."

"One of the scary things" about the election is that getting the most votes may not be enough to win the race, Sheppard said.

"I think Brown's going to have to win by a good 3 percent of the vote, or else we're getting into a Franken-type situation, and we'll be recounting votes for God knows how long. And obviously that benefits the Democrats," he told Newsmax.

As of 5:30pm E.T. on January 18, Newsmax's "stolen election" claim is promoted at the top of its homepage:

Coleman challenged vote count but did not make a single allegation of vote fraud

Minnesota Supreme Court stated that Coleman did not make any allegations of vote fraud. In its decision rejecting Coleman's appeal of the decision declaring Franken the winner of the 2008 Minnesota Senate race, the Minnesota Supreme Court stated that "[n]o claim of fraud in the election or during the recount was made by either party" and that "Coleman's counsel confirmed at oral argument that Coleman makes no claim of fraud on the part of either voters or election officials."

Experts cite "lack of crookedness in the [Minnesota] election"

St. Paul Pioneer Press: Experts said there was a "lack of crookedness in the election." The Pioneer Press reported in a June 29, 2009, article (from the Nexis database): "Experts said the lack of crookedness in the election, as well as a commitment to the law and not politics, allowed the five state high court justices to explore the key issues in depth." The Pioneer Press added: "Rick Hasen, an election law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles, said the court's ruling Tuesday was so thorough that it also ruled out the possibility that either candidate -- or their lawyers -- could be accused of stealing the election."

Pioneer Press: "no corruption charges to undermine the fundamental fairness, transparency and accuracy of Minnesota's election system." The Pioneer Press wrote in a September 25, 2009, article that there were "no corruption charges to undermine the fundamental fairness, transparency and accuracy of Minnesota's election system -- from the common-folk election judges to the esteemed Supreme Court justices -- and no new evidence to show that Coleman had in fact won."

MN reporter Black: "lack of any evidence of fraud, or even attempted fraud." In a September 30, 2009, post on his MinnPost.com blog, former Minneapolis Star Tribune reporter Eric Black wrote: "As I've written before, the lack of any evidence of fraud, or even attempted fraud, in this excruciatingly close, highly scrutinized election is something of which Minnesota should be proud."

Election law professor Foley:  "election was about as far from 'stolen' as any extraordinarily close and intensely disputed election could be."  On July 1, 2009, Ohio State University election law professor Edward B. Foley responded to claims that the Coleman-Franken election was stolen, writing:  "this election was about as far from 'stolen' as any extraordinarily close and intensely disputed election could be--and to use that term in this context is to rob it of appropriate meaning for those situations in which election officials abuse their power to throw an election for a preferred candidate, thereby robbing an opponent of a rightful victory." 

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by Publius39 (January 18, 2010 5:45 pm ET)
      6 1
      The next thing you know, Newsmax is going to start trotting out the ACORN routine...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ForTheLoveOfEllipsis... (January 18, 2010 5:59 pm ET)
        4  
        "Actual vote stealing will occur" on Tuesday, Fund told Newsmax. But he expects it will be reduced "because ACORN is discredited and adrift and there are serious anti-fraud efforts being mounted."

        They're already setting the table for it, Publius...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (January 18, 2010 6:01 pm ET)
      2 9
      -- Actual vote stealing will occur" on Tuesday, Fund told Newsmax. But he expects it will be reduced "because ACORN is discredited and adrift -- Newsmax

      It's a fact...people who only read headlines are generally uninformed.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (January 18, 2010 6:15 pm ET)
        5  
        Great source you are using there, bub, and you call others "uninformed." If you were informed, you would know that there has not been ONE case of voter fraud attributed to ACORN or vote stealing. There have been some cases of voter REGISTRATION fraud committed AGAINST ACORN, but, that would take critical thinking and based upon your use of sources, you have none.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (January 18, 2010 6:23 pm ET)
            6
          Whoosh...you recognize that sound don't you?

          The quote was for Pulius39. He opined that "The next thing you know, Newsmax is going to start trotting out the ACORN routine"...when in fact they already had...clearly stated in the meat of the mmfa article.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 6:34 pm ET)
            3 2
            And you failed to attach it as a reply to his comment because...? You're incompetent? You wanted to start a fight? Why?

            It didn't appear to look like it was a reply to anyone. It was a stand-alone comment that appeared to be trying to start something about ACORN stealing votes. It's quite understandable why someone wouldn't have understood that it was a reply since it wasn't a reply!!!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by HeeNow (January 18, 2010 6:58 pm ET)
              3 6
              Why, Dolly, do you continue to attack people? Isn't that against the rules of engagement here?

              Isn't anybody offered a voice without you attacking them personally? Why haven't you been banned? I think for the first time I am going to click the "Report Abuse" link, not that it will do any good.

              I have even offered you my personal email to discuss this, but you won't.

              What in the hell is the matter with you?

              As to the subject, Massachusetts will decide tomorrow, and you won't matter one whit. Does that reach home? Will it have been worth the ill will?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by wesley (January 18, 2010 7:28 pm ET)
                1 7
                HeeNow...I get your angst...but don't let it bother you.

                Whenever I see her name on a post...I just step on the gas and cruise right on by. I stopped reading anything that she writes a long time ago. Rest assured, you won't miss anything important.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 11:24 pm ET)
                  4  
                  Sure, pretend that my posts don't get under your skin, and debunk almost all of what you say. No one believes you, Weasel.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 11:24 pm ET)
                3  
                Yeah, feel free to 'pretend' that Wesley's the victim here.

                Of course he's not. He attacked someone else after HE failed to actually REPLY to someone else's post for not knowing that his post was a reply to that person's post!!!

                It was Wesley who unfairly attacked someone else, and somehow you want people to believe that HE's the victim here?

                Give us all a break.

                And keep up with the personal attacks that have no basis in reality. It will not suit you well here, but you can continue to dig your own grave if you wish.
                Report Abuse
        • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 6:56 pm ET)
          1 8
          Not to be argumentative, but the credibility of MMA is around the same as newsmax is it not?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Ro (January 18, 2010 7:21 pm ET)
            3  
            Not to be argumentative, but the credibility of MMA is around the same as newsmax is it not?

            It is not. Conservative cannot demonstrate how MMFA isn't credible. They just call it a "left wing smear site" over and over, then complain that it takes conservatives out of context, without ever providing any examples of how this is so.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 7:32 pm ET)
                4
              I may have provided an example below as to MMFA's credibility.
              This news article for instance highlights "expert" left "opinions" but precludes any argument from the right. In fact, the entire premise that the right has no valid argument damages their credibility.

              For example, it is curious as to how MMA provides news such as Ted Robertson's comments, when their mission statement is to disprove conservative misinformation.

              If that is their statement, (correct me if I'm wrong) then they are equating his comments to what all conservatives believe, when even the right is bashing Ted for his comments. Even Glenn Beck calls his comments "stupidity." I believe the mis-information is posting such news in the first place.

              If their job is to provide us news from a liberal perspective, then that needs to be included in their statement. Otherwise, according to their statement, anything that they put up here is considered misinformation by conservatives.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ScienceBuff (January 19, 2010 8:41 am ET)
                3  
                This news article for instance highlights "expert" left "opinions" but precludes any argument from the right. In fact, the entire premise that the right has no valid argument damages their credibility. - unknown1

                The premise you allege is a product of your own imagination. The sources cited who commented on the election and the recount are NOT just "left" opinions. And all of the assertions made are given weight by the fact that no actual, solid examples of fraud have been found in the 14 months since the election took place.

                For example, it is curious as to how MMA provides news such as Ted Robertson's comments, when their mission statement is to disprove conservative misinformation. If that is their statement, (correct me if I'm wrong) then they are equating his comments to what all conservatives believe, when even the right is bashing Ted for his comments. - unknown1

                May I assume you're speaking of Pat Robertson? Robertson is a VERY frequent guest on news shows, giving a perspective which is undeniably conservative. He was even a candidate for the republican nomination for President. It would be disingenuous to suggest that he hasn't been a spokesman for conservative positions.

                Your suggestion that citing his words as conservative misinformation implies that his views match those of all conservatives is completely unfounded. Everyone is aware that there are differences of opinion among conservatives, though less so than among liberals. Regardless, as an established spokesman for conservative positions, misinformation from Robertson clearly qualifies as conservative misinformation.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by null1fy (January 20, 2010 3:46 pm ET)
                     
                  You have your opinion, I have mine. I believe everything that you just put up on this post came from your imagination or your disbelief, as you believe common sense comes from my imagination or disbelief. This discussion will go no further nor will it be productive.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (January 18, 2010 7:21 pm ET)
            3  
            Your welcome to produce evidence to that effect.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by bintx (January 19, 2010 9:44 am ET)
            3  
            MMFA isn't a "source." MMFA is a watchdog site. You should really learn the difference.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by priem (January 19, 2010 1:10 am ET)
            2
          Is this true?

          (MONTGOMERY)--Attorney General Troy King announced the conviction yesterday of Rosie Lyles for voter fraud in Hale County Circuit Court.

          She was sentenced to 12 months, which was suspended. Lyles was placed on probation for two years, during which she is prohibited from participating in any absentee voting or voter registration activity. She was also assessed approximately $400 in court costs.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (January 18, 2010 6:16 pm ET)
        7 2
        Oh, and there was never any question about vote stealing in Minnesota . . . that was a sham perpetrated by Fox and hate talk radio. Of all the states to claim this sort of thing, Minnesota was the easiest to prove the claims to be specious. Inform yourself, wesley, inform yourself. You look silly.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Jeremy Danials (January 18, 2010 6:19 pm ET)
          6  
          Let's not forget Scarborough's constant attacking of the recount process on Morning Joe on MSNBC. That guy's a tool.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by wookie (January 19, 2010 6:57 am ET)
          4  
          Its the right's usual pattern. Establish one lie as a legitimate story "Obama was born in Kenya!" Then use it to prop up other lies "That's why he doesn't want to fight terrorism!"
          Report Abuse
      • Author by wzwriter (January 18, 2010 6:19 pm ET)
        4 1
        It's a fact...people who only read headlines are generally uninformed.

        Guess Wesley only reads headlines.....
        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (January 18, 2010 6:30 pm ET)
          1 6
          Here's a headline for you..."New Poll, Martha Coakley in Free-Fall".

          -- According to the survey conducted Sunday evening, Brown leads the Democratic attorney general 52 percent to 43 percent.

          "I actually think the bottom is falling out," said InsiderAdvantage CEO Matt Towery, referring to Coakley's fall in the polls over the last ten days. "I think that this candidate is in freefall. Clearly this race is imploding for her." --

          It might be that claims of voter fraud will be academic in about 24 hours.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 6:42 pm ET)
            6  
            What does the potential outcome of this race as predicted by this poll have to do with how Newsmax cited an election that wasn't stolen to hype fear about the race in Massachusetts?

            If the race goes to Brown, it doesn't somehow erase what Newsmax said today, you know!

            Report Abuse
            • Author by John Paradox (January 19, 2010 7:15 am ET)
              3  
              W's Response:
              oooh, shiny

              Report Abuse
            • Author by edgewaterprog (January 19, 2010 7:50 pm ET)
              1  
              And in fact Wesley, it could be used against Brown. Maybe he, the Republican Party, and Fox News have stolen the election. I think we need to investigate this now.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by lynneg (January 19, 2010 4:44 pm ET)
        1  
        Not 1 case of actual voter fraud has been made against Acorn, not 1.
        They had employees that fraudulently "registered' voters and were turned in by their superiors at Acorn. This is what Republican liars in the media want you to beieve is the source of "stealing an election'?
        Of course, they do because the Republicans do not waste their time with little acorn groups, they fire Attorney Generals that don't steal elections when they are directed to.. They hire 3rd rate lawyers from Evangelical colleges to run the DOJ so they can steal elections.
        They are masters at election fraud, but more important they are masters of propaganda. Until the Fairness Doctine is reinstated this will only get worse.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edgewaterprog (January 19, 2010 7:51 pm ET)
          1  
          I do not think the fairness doctrine makes much difference in this lynneg but I agree with the rest of your comment here.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 6:33 pm ET)
      1 8
      Let me quote a couple other "experts", not including a professor or a liberal blogger who no longer works for the Star Tribune:

      Experts cite mischief in Minnesota election:

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122644940271419147.html
      "According to John Lott, Mr. Franken's gains so far are 2.5 times the corrections made for Barack Obama in the state, and nearly three times the gains for Democrats across Minnesota Congressional races. Mr. Lott notes that Mr. Franken's "new" votes equal more than all the changes for all the precincts in the entire state for the Presidential, Congressional and statehouse races combined (482 votes)."

      This entire process is being overseen by Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie, who isn't exactly a nonpartisan observer.

      Let's not forget that Mark Ritchie allowed 2812 dead voters to vote. When you’re down by such a slim margin, like Team Coleman knows all too well, every vote counts. When you live in a democracy, the very hallmark of which is fair and free elections, every vote should count. But when you live in Minnesota, where the chief election officer is a hyper-partisan louse, “every” vote counts, even after you’re dead!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 6:35 pm ET)
        1 5
        I forgot to mention that Norm Coleman was down by only 312 votes.

        I just thought I would point out both sides of the argument and let you decide.

        Remember, giving you only a half-truth is misinformation in itself.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by ScienceBuff (January 19, 2010 8:56 am ET)
          3  
          Remember, giving you only a half-truth is misinformation in itself. - unknown1

          So, what is giving 3% truth as you do here?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 6:47 pm ET)
        4 1
        Yeah, you're lying about dead people being allowed to vote. They didn't vote - the election records for them are wrong.

        And you want to pretend that you're here to inform us? What a laugh.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 6:50 pm ET)
          1 6
          http://www.minnesotamajority.org/Home/tabid/112/EntryID/187/Default.aspx

          "Today, Minnesota Majority announced the discovery of individuals who were deceased prior to November 4, 2008, yet have voter history records on the secretary of state’s files that indicate they voted in the 2008 General Election."
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (January 18, 2010 7:32 pm ET)
            5 1
            YHereour text to link here... It was in the issues section. Surprise, it doesn't say those dead folks voted. They are listed as active. Nothing about them voting in 2008.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 7:39 pm ET)
              1 5
              The article you linked says:
              DECEASED VOTERS: Using a standard deceased matching service commonly utilized by mailing houses, we discovered thousands of individuals flagged as deceased who are still on the active voter rolls. Following the 2008 election, we were able to check the SVRS voter history against a list of dead voters and found thousands of potential matches. Further investigation into a small sampling turned up (high confidence match) death records for over 20 voters indicating that they had died before voting in the 2008 election.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 7:47 pm ET)
                1 4
                Following the 2008 election they checked to see who voted and found thousands of deceased. I can see how one could read it either way.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by eweston8542983 (January 18, 2010 8:10 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  There are records of who voted in that election. If any of those names of recently dead voters matched 2008 votes, why are they not listed. This would be a large part of the proposed legal actions. those 20 names should be part of the infomation. Its not that big a list.

                  A clearer statement would say something to the effect that those 20 voters died before the voting in 2008, but are none the less, on record as having voted in that 2008 election.

                  What with all the rest of the verbage on that site. Why couldn't they be clearer on this?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by eweston8542983 (January 18, 2010 8:13 pm ET)
                    4 1
                    Those thousands were found to be listed as active, not actual voters in that election. Or at least unlike you they didn't make that acusation.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by princeofwheels (January 18, 2010 8:23 pm ET)
                      4 1
                      According to unknown1, I must submit that Al Franken won by a larger majority because, to counteract the opinion of the biased MinnesotaMajority.whatever, I believe all of those dead people voted for Coleman.

                      Unknown, what is your beef? Who did these dead people vote for?? More Crying ConGame garbage..you lost, grow up and face it. When the Dems lose tomorrow, should they be like you and moan like a child and give phony stats, those that can't be proven. How about voting machines...how about dead Republicans voting...
                      Your misinformation is noted by MMFA.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 9:11 pm ET)
                        1 5
                        I have no beef, nor did I made an accusation. I merely presented the other side of the story, and you can read into what you like.

                        The last paragraph of your post was unnecessary.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 9:29 pm ET)
                    1 3
                    I agree about the verbiage. Who knows?
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by princeofwheels (January 18, 2010 8:15 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  I hope those dead people show up in Mass. tomorrow.

                  And for all Mass. Voters, dead or alive..vote early and vote often. If by any chance that the Dems pull this off, I am going into the handkerchief business because the crying will never end.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by captain_mike (January 18, 2010 8:37 pm ET)
            5 1
            "Minnesota Majority (who are not a majority and who don't represent a majority) works to promote traditional values" (weren't the traditional values people the ones who cheered when a U.S. city lost a bid for the Olympics, yes, I'm quite sure they were).

            Your sources are rife with problems. WSJ, the Journal of Wall Street, the same Wall Street who promoted the financial meltdown while lining their pockets with gold and a rightwing-nut "traditional values" group are what you have for sources to somehow try to give credibility to a "news report" implying that the Democrats are somehow poised to "STEAL" any kind of close election...before the votes have even been cast?

            You Republicans just can't wash off the stink of that 2000 fiasco when Shrub's brother Jeb gave him the State of Florida to put him over the top with the electoral college after he lost the popular vote by over a half million votes, can you?

            Here's a clue. Just because the right wing and Republicans have been willing to do it in the past doesn't mean that the left wing and the Democrats are waiting breathlessly to repeat your slimy behavior.

            As far as I'm concerned the Goppers can have that seat and then proceed to filibuster the crap out of anything that anyone tries to do for the next 3 years. They will prevent the health reform bill from ever being signed, a bill which was changed by Republicans on the way to being approved in the Senate from something that would benefit American citizens into the greatest gift the government could ever give the insurance industry at the EXPENSE of the American citizens. Then they can proceed to demonstrate clearly just how much of a party of "No" (no taxes, no big government, no ideas, no successes -- you know, the way the Republican no-more-taxes-Arnold worked so successfully to bankrupt California) they are and bring about the complete and total collapse of the Republican Party, a process that Bush/Cheney and McCain/Palin and Michael Steele have only just begun.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 9:36 pm ET)
              1 5
              "Here's a clue. Just because the right wing and Republicans have been willing to do it in the past doesn't mean that the left wing and the Democrats are waiting breathlessly to repeat your slimy behavior."

              Are you suggesting that the left wing Democrats' behavior wouldn't be slimy should they choose the same course of action?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by captain_mike (January 18, 2010 10:11 pm ET)
                4 1
                Not at all and nothing I said even came close to that misrepresentation of what I DID say. Hard to believe you could so completely misunderstand something I put so bluntly.

                "doesn't mean . . . Democrats are waiting . . . to repeat your slimy behavior"

                What word are you having so much trouble with or does the whole concept elude you?

                Were progressives to indulge in the kind of behavior that many conservatives (although I believe "regressives" is a better term for most of you) have been indulging in--and promoting--for years, it would be just as slimy as the behavior of the right. This hasn't happened yet and you and all the "family values" hypochristians in the world wailing about how it is bound to happen doesn't make it so.

                I'm simply saying that once again, the behavior the right wing is attempting to blame progressives for (and in this case the fuss is about "future behavior" as if you guys can now see into the future) is nothing less than behavior they have been responsible for in the past.

                It seems to be an oft repeating theme these days.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 11:43 pm ET)
            4 1
            Okay, are you really this dense? I already explained to you that the ELECTION RECORDS SHOWING THEM AS HAVING VOTED WERE FOUND TO BE WRONG!!!

            They didn't vote!

            You (nor anyone else) can find a single semi-reputable news organization that will claim that ANY dead people ineligible to vote actually voted in Minnesota in that election!

            There was no 'stolen election' in Minnesota, and there was a ton of examination of that election! How anyone can even TRY to claim that there was any fraud there is stunning in its ignorance and stupidity!!!

            Some group found 5 people who were on voter registration rolls and who were shown by inaccurate election records to have voted.

            So then the Secretary of State, Mark Ritchie, pulled out the actual precinct sign-in sheets, and proved that none of those 5 people actully signed in OR voted!

            It was a data entry error on the part of the election records workers. No dead people had votes cast using their voter registrations!

            So, stop making a fool of yourself passing this off as an actual fear we should be worried about!!! All you can find is sites like Newsmax (surprise, surprise) who pushed this story MONTHS ago. They figured out MONTHS ago that it was bogus - how come you're still pushing a debunked story?

            Secretary of State Mark Ritchie's office presented precinct sign-in rosters on Wednesday that appear to support the view that no one voted on behalf of the five deceased individuals.

            While the voter records indicate deceased individuals voted, the Ritchie's office states this was actually the fault of data-entry errors by county election officials.
            Your text to link here...
            Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (January 19, 2010 8:44 am ET)
              1 4
              Once again, I find no valid argument and no sources. Is it possible there is nobody on this message board who can point me in the correct direction with cited facts refuting the arguments made by coleman? I'm far from a coleman fan, but the fact that all this hype even existed is not some made up story. There were real concerns that surfaced about the outcome of the close election.

              Where did I cite newsmax? My sources were WSJ and minnesotamajority.

              I'm not giving an opinion, but simply putting out there what others have said. I am being viciously attacked with name calling and having words put into my mouth. It seems nobody can give me a research item, and they're just posting what they may have heard from various sources, be it from memory or from a questionable source they fail to provide because it isn't valid. I'm not going to take what anyone says at face value without some backup.

              I'm looking around to find somewhere to research of this 'debunking' but I'm coming up short.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ScienceBuff (January 19, 2010 11:38 am ET)
                2 1
                Those making the charges are responsible for providing support. Suggesting that we should disprove vague, non-specific charges is akin to telling us to prove a negative. Provide something specific. It's been many months since all of this took place. Let's have some names of people who signed in to vote who were dead before the election.

                Is it possible there is nobody on this message board who can point me in the correct direction with cited facts refuting the arguments made by coleman? - unknown1

                What arguments by Coleman are those? He hasn't made any assertions of fraud. He clearly stated in court that he didn't believe there was fraud. What you're presenting is smoke being blown by partisan outsiders. If they were right, Coleman is the person that would have had the most to gain by proving it. He hasn't backed them up because his lawyers and investigators looked into the claims and found that they didn't have any merit.

                Please tell us, what specific evidence of fraud exists that we should debunk? I haven't seen any yet.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (January 19, 2010 12:33 pm ET)
                2 1
                I provided a freakin' link, you doofus! Do I have to draw you a picture too? Send you a written invitation to CLICK on the link I provided?

                What I was saying (context-challenged person that you are) is that there are NO news organizations that will give you info about dead people voting. The WSJ didn't tell us anything about that issue, and minnesotamajority is a BLOG, you doofus. I referenced NewsMax as one example of a non-credible source because, doofus, Newsmax is in the headline of this article by MMFA!
                Report Abuse
      • Author by ScienceBuff (January 18, 2010 8:48 pm ET)
        4  
        unknown1 -
        The WSJ article has been thoroughly debunked. It tried to make issues of adjustments that were analyzed to death and didn't produce any slight hint of fraud or improprieties. The article even cited the ridiculous myth of the ballots found in the car.

        The entire process was NOT overseen by Ritchie. The canvassing board that oversaw the recount was made up of two judges who were republican appointees, one who was appointed by an independent governor and one who was elected in a nonpartisan election. Ritchie was only on the panel to cast tie-breaking votes and very, very few of those were necessary. The recount was clean, transparent and accurate.

        The charge on the 2,812 dead voters has NEVER been supported. It's been many months since that charge was made and NOT ONE SINGLE VOTE has been shown to have been cast by a dead person. It remains an assertion based on thin circumstantial evidence and a huge load of assumptions.

        From the MN Supreme Court ruling: "No claim of fraud in the election or during the recount was made by either party."
        Also: "Coleman's counsel confirmed at oral argument that Coleman makes no claim of fraud on the part of either voters or election officials."

        You're beating a dead horse.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by null1fy (January 18, 2010 9:47 pm ET)
          1 5
          Do you have any sources to back any of your 3 arguments up? I'm really not looking for personal opinion, just some intelligent discussion about the findings of the matter.

          I am aware of the supreme court ruling. Might I also ask how many convicted murderers that were put to death were actually innocent? All I'm saying with that is that the MN supreme court is not infallible.

          "Coleman's counsel confirmed at oral argument that Coleman makes no claim of fraud on the part of either voters or election officials."
          --If that's the case, why did this whole fiasco exist?

          The dead horse comment was unnecessary.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by ScienceBuff (January 18, 2010 10:13 pm ET)
            4  
            Which three claims are you challenging? The adjustments really were carefully examined. There was no hint of fraud, nothing to challenge. The makeup of the canvassing board is a matter of public record. For that matter, the MN Supreme Court is heavily weighted toward republican appointees.

            Norm Coleman and his lawyers made no assertions of fraud in their court case. The reason for this is simple. There was no evidence of fraud on which to base a case. They were directly asked in the court case if they were making any assertions of fraud and they responded with an unequivocal "No."

            As for the fantasy of the dead voters, I would think that if I were wrong, that could be shown. All it would take is a solid case of someone shown as signed in to vote who was dead at the time. The evidence that could show that are all public records. Personally, I'm betting that the instances MN Majority (an extremely hard right-wing organization here in MN) found to be possible are names like Bill Johnson and John Anderson.

            As for the dead horse comment, I believe it was apt. Maybe you aren't aware that it's an old expression, often alternatively phrased as "flogging a dead horse." The fact is that you're dredging up a bunch of old insinuations that have never been found to have any solid support.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (January 18, 2010 11:51 pm ET)
              3 1
              Secretary of State Mark Ritchie's office presented precinct sign-in rosters on Wednesday that appear to support the view that no one voted on behalf of the five deceased individuals.

              While the voter records indicate deceased individuals voted, the Ritchie's office states this was actually the fault of data-entry errors by county election officials.

              http://newsmax.com/InsideCover/minnesota-vote-fraud/2009/06/03/id/330716

              As I said in one of the first replies to this tool who is a returning troll under a new screen name - there's nothing here.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by null1fy (January 19, 2010 8:45 am ET)
                1 5
                I never cited newsmax, and you believe it is a faulty source.

                Once again, you're getting a little emotional over this. Perhaps it's time to cut your losses if you can't find a research item for me.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (January 19, 2010 12:37 pm ET)
                  2 1
                  If I can't find a reputable news source that did what?

                  As I said above, NO reputable news source is going to have anything to do with this bogus story about dead people voting since it didn't happen!!!!!!!!!!!

                  So, I said that you couldn't find a reputable source, and somehow it's my job to find one? What a doofus you are!

                  And thanks, but when I need judgment about how I'm feeling, I will NOT go to the person who thinks that somehow I am obligated to provide a reputable source to disprove your nonsense!
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by null1fy (January 20, 2010 3:50 pm ET)
                       
                    Once again, you're getting a little emotional. It might be a good time for you to leave it be.
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (January 19, 2010 8:50 am ET)
              1 5
              I am challenging the entirety of your post. Nothing you say will convince me at face value. You call actual concerns 'fantasy'. The canvassing board is not ultimately responsible like Ritchie is. It's the same as saying the manager is responsible for the grocery bagger bagging the groceries wrong, because ultimately he is.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ScienceBuff (January 19, 2010 10:27 am ET)
                3 1
                You're offering nothing but vague generalities. What SPECIFIC reason is there to assert fraud? Nothing you've provided has given any evidence to support a claim of fraud.

                If you want to suggest that Ritchie's position has some relevance you should provide a reason for that. What actions has he taken that influenced the election? The canvassing board took control of the recount and conducted it without any influence from Ritchie beyond his casting a tie-breaking vote on an extremely small number of contested ballots. Yes, Ritchie had ultimate responsibility and he exercised that responsibility by empowering the canvassing board to act independently of him to ensure a fair and accurate recount. The way he handled it was a model of fairness and transparency that is a model for other states. None of the principles involved has found anything to protest in his handling of the entire process.

                As I said, you're correct that Ritchie was ultimately responsible, but my point is that he was ultimately responsible for an extremely well run recount process. No one has come up with one single specific complaint about his handling of it. There certainly was nothing from Coleman, the one single person with the most to gain by showing fraud or misconduct. To the contrary, he stated unequivocally that there was no indication of fraud and made no assertions of misconduct.

                And all you have are vague generalities.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by captain_mike (January 18, 2010 10:31 pm ET)
            3 1
            Coleman's counsel only said that after every recount and challenge continued to produce more votes for his opponent.

            Coleman tried to grab an election he was about to lose. He even directly appealed to his opponent to "do the right thing" and concede long before all the votes were in, implying that "for the people of the State" it was the right thing to do...yet when the tables were turned and he didn't like the results he rejected "doing the right thing" and subjected the same people of the State to the extended fiasco you seem to somehow want to blame the rightful winner of the election for.

            The closeness of the election triggered a hand recount and lo and behold, the supposed lead of the Republican just dwindled and dwindled. Every challenge brought by Coleman and his gang of lawyers resulted in more votes being counted for Franken. It wasn't just one Democratic official who certified the recount and "stole" the election for Franken, but rather the entire judicial system in Minnesota, including the State Supreme Court, worked the way it is supposed to work and in a close election subjected to a bit closer scrutiny, the truth came to light.

            Coleman claimed he wasn't claiming fraud blah de blah to try and save face after his last attempt to force further stalling of Minnesotans having full representation in the Senate was thrown out by the courts as a frivolous and baseless lawsuit.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (January 19, 2010 9:48 am ET)
        2 1
        Even Coleman admitted that there were no irregularities, unknown.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by sluggo (January 18, 2010 8:05 pm ET)
      4 1
      Wow!!

      This would all be very interesting if NewsMax had any track record of actually doing NEWS (or even telling the truth).

      If I wanted to learn about lunatic theories I would go HERE.

      Getting excited about Newsmax not doing NEWS (or even being ethical) is just a waste of time...

      Report Abuse
      • Author by princeofwheels (January 18, 2010 8:28 pm ET)
        2 1
        Finally, a Con website with all truth and nothing but the truth..I think.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by pilotx (January 18, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
      3  
      "They obviously stole the Franken seat" Sheppard. Obviously huh? Care to provide some evidence there Sparky or we to just take your word for it? Maybe you should bring someone up on charges if someone "obviously" broke the law. I should be a conservative, seems so easy. No need for facts or evidence.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Rowdy (January 18, 2010 10:42 pm ET)
      1 2
      What a laugh----everyone knows Franken stole the election---and being close, this was as predictable as the sunrise. Just love how they used different counting standards from one precinct to the next. Leftist Democrats will always keep counting until they find enough votes to win.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mary59 (January 20, 2010 2:08 pm ET)
          1
        "everyone knows" is a joke. That process was painfully fair. However, you are entitled to your bogus opinion.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by null1fy (January 20, 2010 3:49 pm ET)
           
        Rowdy, posting this is like talking to a wall. They will believe what they want to.

        A lesson in common sense:

        Close election, Ritchie overseeing process, Democrats goofing off behind the scenes, Coleman is ahead, Franken somehow wins.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by deeeman (January 19, 2010 10:03 am ET)
      1  
      Ya, I don't get the Al Franken analogy either. It was a clean election.
      Report Abuse

my.MediaMatters.org

Login  Sign Up

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.

  • NewsMax.com
    NewsMax.com
    NewsMax.com
    P.O. Box 20989
    West Palm Beach, FL 33416
    Main Office: 561-686-1165