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George Will's torrent of global warming misinformation continues with distortion of glacier data

January 23, 2010 2:31 pm ET — 116 Comments

In a Washington Post column, serial global warming misinformer George Will said that the "menace of global warming" is "elusive" and claimed that an acknowledged error about Himalayan glaciers in a report by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) constituted "another dollop of evidence of the seepage of dubious science into policy debate." In fact, scientists routinely present strong evidence of long-term global warming and its consequences, including evidence of "[w]idespread mass loss from glaciers."

Will cites glaciers to claim evidence of global warming is "elusive"

Citing WSJ article on IPCC glacier error, Will mentions "elusive menace of global warming." In a column for the January 24 print edition of The Washington Post, Will wrote:

This complex and costly carbon-rationing plan supposedly would combat the elusive menace of global warming. Serendipitously, on Tuesday, as Massachusetts voters were telling Obama to pause regarding health-care reform, the Wall Street Journal was reporting: "An influential United Nations panel is facing growing criticism about its practices after acknowledging doubts about a 2007 statement that Himalayan glaciers were retreating faster than those anywhere else and would entirely disappear by 2035, if not sooner."

The U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change -- co-winner with Al Gore of another absurd Nobel Peace Prize -- issued the questionable 2007 report, which was based on a 2005 report from an environmental advocacy group that relied on a 1999 article quoting an Indian scientist who actually did not mention 2035. Another day, another dollop of evidence of the seepage of dubious science into policy debate, and another reason to proceed cautiously.

Scientists say glaciers are melting

WSJ article Will quotes itself says that the IPCC error is unlikely to "overturn the scientific consensus on glacial retreat." The January 19 Journal article Will quotes stated (emphasis added):

An influential United Nations panel is facing growing criticism about its practices after acknowledging doubts about a 2007 statement that Himalayan glaciers were retreating faster than those anywhere else and would entirely disappear by 2035, if not sooner.

Rajendra Pachauri, head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, or IPCC, said Monday that the U.N. body was studying how the 2007 report "derived" the information about glacier retreat, according to a spokesman at the Energy and Resources Institute in New Delhi, where Dr. Pachauri is the director. Dr. Pachauri said glaciers were melting, but the 2035 date was in question, the spokesman said.

It was unlikely that these revelations about the IPCC report would overturn the scientific consensus on glacial retreat, but they raised questions for the IPCC about how the data on Himalayan glaciers were collected and reviewed. [Wall Street Journal, 1/19/10]

IPCC: Report's conclusion of accelerated glacier loss is "is robust, appropriate, and entirely consistent with the underlying science and the broader IPCC assessment." Following reports of the error, the IPCC issued a statement that said it "regret[s] the poor application of well-established IPCC procedures in this instance," but that the broad conclusion about glacier loss in the report "is robust, appropriate, and entirely consistent with the underlying science and the broader IPCC assessment." From the statement:

The Synthesis Report, the concluding document of the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (page 49) stated: "Climate change is expected to exacerbate current stresses on water resources from population growth and economic and land-use change, including urbanisation. On a regional scale, mountain snow pack, glaciers and small ice caps play a crucial role in freshwater availability. Widespread mass losses from glaciers and reductions in snow cover over recent decades are projected to accelerate throughout the 21st century, reducing water availability, hydropower potential, and changing seasonality of flows in regions supplied by meltwater from major mountain ranges (e.g. Hindu-Kush, Himalaya, Andes), where more than one-sixth of the world population currently lives."

This conclusion is robust, appropriate, and entirely consistent with the underlying science and the broader IPCC assessment.

It has, however, recently come to our attention that a paragraph in the 938-page Working Group II contribution to the underlying assessment refers to poorly substantiated estimates of rate of recession and date for the disappearance of Himalayan glaciers. In drafting the paragraph in question, the clear and well-established standards of evidence, required by the IPCC procedures, were not applied properly.

The Chair, Vice-Chairs, and Co-chairs of the IPCC regret the poor application of well-established IPCC procedures in this instance. This episode demonstrates that the quality of the assessment depends on absolute adherence to the IPCC standards, including thorough review of "the quality and validity of each source before incorporating results from the source into an IPCC Report" 3. We reaffirm our strong commitment to ensuring this level of performance.

U.N.'s Yvo de Boer: Error "does not alter the inevitable consequences, unless rigorous action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is taken." In a January 20 Associated Press article, Yvo de Boer, the head of the U.N. Convention on Climate Change, said of the error: "What is happening now is comparable with the Titanic sinking more slowly than expected," adding, "But that does not alter the inevitable consequences, unless rigorous action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is taken." The AP further reported: "The climate panel and even the scientist who publicized the errors said they are not significant in comparison to the entire report, nor were they intentional. And they do not negate the fact that worldwide, glaciers are melting faster than ever."

"Glacier expert" Michael Zemp: "Glaciers are the best proof that climate change is happening." From a January 20 CNN.com article:

A glacier expert interviewed by CNN explained that the data published was flawed.

Michael Zemp from the World Glacier Monitoring Service said: "There are simply no observations available to make these sorts of statements."

Zemp says that the figures quoted in the report are not possible because 500,000 square kilometers is estimated to be the total surface area of all mountain glaciers worldwide.

"The other thing is that the report says the glaciers are receding faster than anywhere else in the world. We simply do not have the glacier change measurements. The Himalayas are among those regions with the fewest available data," Zemp said.

In defense of the IPCC, Zemp says "you can take any report and find a mistake in it but it's up to the next IPCC report to correct it."

Zemp also believes that the errors shouldn't shake people's belief in climate science.

"Glaciers are the best proof that climate change is happening. This is happening on a global scale. They can translate very small changes in the climate into a visible signal," he said.

Ohio State glaciologist Lonnie Thompson: "The issues under discussion are very specific ones, but do not detract from the overall conclusions of the IPCC, which are backed by many lines of evidence." A USA Today blog post quoted Ohio State glaciologist Lonnie Thompson defending the 2007 IPCC report: "[W]e're good at what we do, but we're human beings. The issues under discussion are very specific ones, but do not detract from the overall conclusions of the IPCC, which are backed by many lines of evidence."

Scientists routinely present evidence that global warming is real

Will previously distorted U.N. report to claim: "Warnings about cataclysmic warming increase in stridency as evidence of warming becomes more elusive." In an October 1, 2009, Washington Post column, Will wrote: "Warnings about cataclysmic warming increase in stridency as evidence of warming becomes more elusive. A recent report from the United Nations Environment Program predicts an enormous 6.3 degrees Fahrenheit increase by the end of the century even if nations fulfill their most ambitious pledges concerning reduction of carbon emissions" [italics in original].

U.N. report Will previously cited actually provides evidence for warming and its consequences. In that October 1, 2009, Post column, Will cited a September 2009 United Nations Environmental Programme (UNEP) report as evidence that "[w]arnings about cataclysmic warming increase in stridency as evidence of warming becomes more elusive." But Will ignored actual evidence in the report that undermines his claim. Indeed, in presenting the findings -- which were "based on the wealth of peer reviewed research published by researchers and institutions since 2006" -- Achim Steiner, UNEP executive director, stated, "The findings indicate that ever more rapid environmental change is underway with the pace and the scale of climate change accelerating along with the confidence among researchers in their forecasts." Will also falsely cited the U.N. report for the 6.3-degree figure he cited. In fact, the U.N. report did not make that prediction.

Other scientific organizations agree that evidence shows that global warming is real. In addition to the UNEP report and the IPCC 2007 Synthesis Report -- which concluded that "[m]ost of the observed increase in global average temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely due to the observed increase in anthropogenic [human-caused] GHG [greenhouse gas] concentrations" -- other scientific organizations, including NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, the United Kingdom's Met Office, and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, also conclude that human-caused global warming is occurring.

Will is a serial global warming misinformer

In the Post and elsewhere, Will has repeatedly distorted data and climate science reports. In his Washington Post columns, Will has repeatedly misrepresented arctic sea ice data. In the Post and in Newsweek, Will has also forwarded the fallacy that there has been "no global warming since 1998."

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    • Author by mk3872 (January 23, 2010 3:14 pm ET)
      7  
      It's an impossible mission for these scientists when trusted sources like WaPo allows printing of politically-motivated writers like Will to comment on science.

      Any little bit of miscalculation or misprint by scientists will immediately be pounced upon by the likes of Will to insinuate that the entire premise is bogus.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 23, 2010 4:01 pm ET)
        3 12
        It's worse the Economist is in on the act. My how the mighty have fallen.

        How about the scientists policing themselves? Oh, I forgot, that is what the "peer review" system is supposed to do. You know, the one that was so casually ignored for this issue.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (January 23, 2010 4:28 pm ET)
          11 1
          this was a mistake. fortunately, as much as the deniers get themselves into an absolute tizzy about it, this time the basic science is not even in question. the big majority of glaciers are melting, rapidly in some cases, and all over the world. so go ahead and think that this is some big victory for the denier side. it's not, because it will just focus attention from the media on the provable fact that the glaciers are melting. even the biggest dittohead will be able to look at a photo of a glacier from fifty years and then one from this year and figure out the rate of melting. but enjoy yourself for now.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eb (January 23, 2010 7:10 pm ET)
            9 1
            Notice how the scientist need to be 100 percent correct all the time yet the deniers are caught up in dubious scientific claims again and again and its ignored. Our atmosphere can only be at risk if all the republican corporate libertarians say it is.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wookie (January 23, 2010 7:33 pm ET)
              5  
              Scientists often point out their own or others mistakes. Science adapts as they find out what is true and what isn't. The right has often used this against them. In things like evolution they will say that scientists believed in things like Piltdown man therefore they must be wrong all of the time.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by eb (January 23, 2010 7:57 pm ET)
                8  
                Einstein found flaws in Newtons theory of gravity. I guess that justifies questioning the theory of gravitational attraction. Those darn scientist were wrong, bunch of liars! Must be a socialist agenda again.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by LarryE (January 24, 2010 12:50 am ET)
                7  
                Scientists often point out their own or others mistakes.

                Precisely. This actually is an example of how science is supposed to work: The statement about certain glaciers being gone by 2035 was not based on peer-reviewed research and so should not have been in the 2007 IPCC report. When that was shown, the IPCC retracted the statement.

                That's what good scientists do: Show them something they said is wrong, they take it back. Even when, as here, the underlying assertion (those glaciers are retreating, just not that fast) remains on solid ground.

                But as others have said here and as I said when the news came out, they will
                use the very self-correction that is part of science as a weapon against it. And they will do it, and do it with neither pause nor shame, because they are not engaged in science. They are engaged in PR. Some in service to corporations, some in obeisance to corporate ideology, some because it's just easier to close their eyes than to see, some because any mention of the UN sends black helicopters flying in their skulls. But whatever the reason, what they are doing is, again and quite clearly, not science.
                And it never should be regarded as such.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 1:25 am ET)
                     
                  Well said LarryE. Nice job.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (January 24, 2010 10:10 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Thanks again and always, LarryE.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 8:34 am ET)
                    2
                  When that was shown, the IPCC retracted the statement.


                  That wasn't the case initially Larry. You make it sound as if they plucked the faulty/bad data right out of the report. As Dr. Kaser explains:

                  This poses two questions. One is why Dr Kaser, or some other glaciologist, did not see the chapter earlier on...
                  ...The other question is why, when alerted by Dr Kaser, the IPCC did nothing. When open criticism began last year, it was airily dismissed by Rajendra Pachauri, who chairs the IPCC and runs an institute in India where Dr Hasnain now works on glaciology. If he had not heard the claims were wrong by that stage, he should have done. This mixture of sloppiness, lack of communication and high-handedness gives the IPCC’s critics a lot to work with. emphasis mine


                  I think the last sentence from the Economist article sums it up better than I.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by vhw28672478 (January 25, 2010 12:10 pm ET)
                    2 2
                    wrong again global warming is fact
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by NiceguyEddie (January 25, 2010 12:26 pm ET)
                    1 1
                    This mixture of sloppiness, lack of communication and high-handedness gives the IPCC's critics a lot to work with.

                    Yeah - you notice how it's all petty b*llsh!t that they're "working with?" If they had any FACTS or PEER-REVIEWED DATA or WORKABLE CLIMATE MODELS to back their claims up, they wouldn't have to resort to pouncing on every little minute detail that comes up.

                    So yeah, it does say it pretty well: That they got nothin' and this is the best they can do. (Confuse those that are ignorant as to how science works.)

                    -------------------------------------------------
                    IMHO
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                    • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 11:32 pm ET)
                        2
                      BBC news is reporting tonight that the Himalayan Glacier data was actually made by a campaign group.

                      If anyone has "nothin'", it's the IPCC. Political hacks at their worst.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by NiceguyEddie (January 26, 2010 7:50 am ET)
                           
                        You are demonstrating my point: You sieze upon one piece of information as if their whole argument depends on it. You ignore the entireity of the science and the mountains of data that exists depite this one case. The Himalayan Glaciers were but one bit of evidence that we may or may not have expected to see, to confirm the IMPACT global warming. (That's the IMPACT of, not the REALITY of nor the CAUSE of!) What do you have to say about the Northwest Passage, Polar Ice Caps, Greenland's Glaciers and Antactic Ice, just to name a few others?

                        ----------------------------------------
                        I thought so.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 26, 2010 8:27 am ET)
                          1 1
                          I'm seizing upon this one piece of data in a long line of bad data as it's just the latest to come to light, so guilty as charged.

                          I'm all for a robust debate and I'm open to wherever that leads. What I'm against is the IPCC (a political faction if there ever was one) tainting and ignoring data that doesn't fit in with the agenda.

                          It is telling that as more and more chicanery comes to light, the left ratchets up the rhetoric and double-speak. Never really dealing with the charge at hand.

                          Until you get the politics out of this issue, you'll never get the desired effect you desire.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by NiceguyEddie (January 26, 2010 8:43 am ET)
                               
                            Until you get the politics out of this issue, you'll never get the desired effect you desire.

                            I agree 100%. But historically this has worked both ways. Most oftne than not political pressure has caused the predictions and data to be diminishsed. Now, whether political pressure from teh climate deniers motivated them to try a shoe-horn this into their report is immaterial. I was WRONG, and it was BAD SCIENCE.

                            That being said, I'm not sure what you mean by "a long line of bad data" and "more and more chicanery." (Maybe you're talking about oil-inductry funded studies?) ;) Every time there's more data, the models get better. They're able to simulate more ocnditions more accurately. And even so, nothing changes the basic conclusion that the globe is warming and mankind's behavior is the primary driver of it.

                            Dire predctions about the cosequences being exagerated does not change the view of WHAT is happeneng or WHY it's happening. It should concern people enough to act, but it doesn't. And THAT is where the politics really comes in. How do you get people today to care about something that won't happen for another hundered years at least?

                            (You exagerate the threat to THEM, seeing as how they don't give two $#!T's about their great-great-grandchildren and tehir familiy's.)

                            It's wrong, but why is it that so many people can be shown what's happening and not care?

                            ----------------------------------------------
                            And seriously? That's not even science. That's entirely politics.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 9:54 am ET)
                            1  
                            I'm seizing upon this one piece of data in a long line of bad data as it's just the latest to come to light, so guilty as charged.
                            Well I'm sorry that science does not provide instant, perfect information. Maybe you should try religion instead.
                            Report Abuse
        • Author by bilbo_dies (January 23, 2010 4:29 pm ET)
          4  
          It's worse the Economist is in on the act. My how the mighty have fallen.

          So, the Economist was dissing George Will for being a tool?
          Sorry, I didn't catch that in the linked article.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (January 23, 2010 8:55 pm ET)
          7 1
          slick --

          Like the denialists EVER are peer-reviewed? Oh, that's right. Their peers are on blog sites like, "wattsupwiththat", "globalwarminghoax", "climatechangefacts", or Roy Spencer's site, and the list goes on. Good quality sites. All distorting and twisting the facts. Who double-checks their facts? You? Are YOU the expert? I think not.

          Normal, rational people, who know that they AREN'T the EXPERTS know that the real experts have spoken - over 95% agree ACC is a reality.

          It's only the ignorant, or just plain stupid denialists who hang on to their failed belief that ACC is not real. What IS the current denialists position? Or is it, warming is happening, but not caused by humans, or it is NOT happening at all?

          You guys can't keep your story straight. You may want to discuss this among yourselves & let us all know just what is the current position you all are taking.

          So, keep pointing fingers at the scientists who aren't afraid of admitting when they aren't correct. THAT'S how science works.

          But, denialists will NEVER admit when they are wrong. THAT's how belief systems work.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 24, 2010 2:16 pm ET)
            1 7
            does your hand smell after pulling that 95% stat out of your butt? I'd suggest washing up with soap and warm water before popping your next anti-depressant.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by benjr (January 24, 2010 4:22 pm ET)
              7 1
              hey doofus, maybe do some research before denying a valid statistic:

              Most earth scientists believe humans cause of global warming, according to survey
              97 percent of climatologists canvassed believe humans play a role


              From CNN.com

              You're right though, SLRTX was wrong about his 95% figure. It's actually 97%! Nice try though.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 24, 2010 5:40 pm ET)
                1 3
                nice one slappy. year old data, prior to all of the oops we made mistakes. got anything current? of course it's all true until its proven wrong, right? you funny.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by benjr (January 24, 2010 6:03 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Unless you have data contradicting that poll, you have no point. Proof?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 24, 2010 6:39 pm ET)
                    1 3
                    hmmmmmm, wonder why there is no new poll? maybe because it doesn't look good for the cultists? just a thought...
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by mefirst (January 24, 2010 8:01 pm ET)
                      2  
                      there was one mistaken date given in the report on glaciers. but the glaciers are still melting and still receding, as predicted. but that actual fact has no meaning right?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 24, 2010 8:03 pm ET)
                        1 3
                        and the ice is growing in the arctic. no meaning though, right?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mefirst (January 24, 2010 8:34 pm ET)
                          2  
                          here's a link to nasa, from this month, about antarctica. it's been losing a net 24 cubic miles of ice per year since 2002.
                          Your text to link here...
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (January 24, 2010 10:14 pm ET)
                          2 1
                          Yeah, you're stupid all right.

                          Come back when you figure out that weather isn't climate. Because that's what your problem is here - you think that an increase in Arctic ice coverage from one year to the next actually means something.

                          But if the ice is widespread but thin, that's a variable that your side never seems to consider. And if we had one year that had very little ice, you seem to think that the next year or two's increase means something.

                          But only because you confuse weather and climate.

                          Get back to us when you understand climate, doofus.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 24, 2010 10:48 pm ET)
                            1 2
                            my your panties are bunched up tonight. I don't confuse weather and climate, I just don't buy into your cult that humans are causing any significant problems that warrant drastic changes in the way we live. my biggest issue with it all is the phony cap and trade that is being pushed. What a load of crap that is, even the best climate scientists agree that will have no affect, only to increase energy costs and drive jobs out. Bottom line is there is a lot being done with alternative energy sources and we will find something better/cheaper/greener. There is no need to force changes by arbitrarily making one source more expensive. It is fun getting a rise out of you cultists though. Your a touchy breed.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by benjr (January 25, 2010 2:21 am ET)
                              2  
                              I like how you change the focus of the discussion from global warming to cap and trade. I also notice that your answer to why you don't have any better polling data is

                              hmmmmmm, wonder why there is no new poll? maybe because it doesn't look good for the cultists? just a thought...


                              In other words, you have no data to refute my point, so we (those of us who follow scientific data) must be cultists. You really back up your claims...

                              I really am trying to have a civil discussion with you, rrrrigghhttt, but you refuse to refute my data with any data that supports your claims. I'm asking you to have a rational discussion with me, but your keep confusing opinions with fact. If you have data to refute any of my claims I'd be happy to look at it.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 25, 2010 8:43 am ET)
                                1 2
                                sorry benjr, wasn't trying to change the focus, just stating my opinion of the whole picture. "ACC being hyped to scare folks to push through cap and trade to force a change in energy consumption". I believe the change will happen on it's own, no need to force it. and no, I have no new data or I would show it to you. was musing that it's odd there isn't any. regards.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by benjr (January 25, 2010 9:07 am ET)
                                  1  
                                  Isn't it telling if there is no new polling data though?
                                  I do not think that climatologists have changed the opinions en masse over the last year. The vast, vast majority of climatologists believe that AGW is true. I don't see why scientists would try to hype cap and trade, and either way, the AGW conversation has been going on far longer than cap and trade has been in the discussion.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 25, 2010 12:11 pm ET)
                                      2
                                    maybe/maybe not? A lot has happened and come to light over the last year.
                                    Report Abuse
                            • Author by raddave43 (January 25, 2010 4:15 pm ET)
                              1  
                              Where is your evidence to back up the claim about best scientist agree that cam and trade will have no effect? From what I have read, it is the opposite. So we should destroy ourselves in the name of jobs? Do you realize how far we would be now if the oil and coal companies hadn't been fighting alternative energy sources for decades?
                              Report Abuse
                        • Author by raddave43 (January 25, 2010 4:10 pm ET)
                          2  
                          Ice is not growing in the arctic, it is receding. And the argument you deniars use is that the ice in Antartica is growing, but have never offered any evidence to back up this claim. Like Hannity loves to spout off about this being the coldest decade on record or 2009 being one of the coldest years on record, but never offers anything to back up this claim.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:00 am ET)
                          1  
                          and the ice is growing in the arctic. no meaning though, right?
                          I'm sure that will be a comfort to 40% of the Earth's population that although they will no longer have rivers of fresh water, there is more ice in Antarctica. Brilliant point.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by rrrrigghhttt (January 26, 2010 10:15 am ET)
                              1
                            you're an idiot. you really believe that 40% of the pop will have no fresh water. what planet are you on?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 11:15 am ET)
                              1  
                              you're an idiot. you really believe that 40% of the pop will have no fresh water. what planet are you on?
                              Who's the idiot? Apparently you are unable to read my remarks reliably. I said "rivers of fresh water", genius.
                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 8:46 am ET)
                        1 2
                        but the glaciers are still melting and still receding


                        How much are they melting and receding? A lot, a little? The point is that the IPCC tried to put the scariest face on the bogeyman but the bogeyman is a hard creature to pin down. Especially when we're talking three hundred year in the future. This is more good gouge from the Economist, a mag who pushed the warmers views time after time. Alas, cooler heads are starting to prevail.


                        Meanwhile, the future of water resources in the places served by the glaciers remains unclear. Glaciers in monsoonal climates, unlike high-latitude glaciers, gain mass from precipitation during the same warm season in which they lose mass from melting, which makes their behaviour complex.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by vhw28672478 (January 25, 2010 12:08 pm ET)
                          1 2
                          wrong again
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:13 am ET)
                             
                          How much are [glaciers] melting and receding? A lot, a little?
                          See for yourself.
                          In Double Exposure, images from the archive of pioneering mountain photographer Bradford Washburn have been placed alongside more recent photos taken by journalist David Arnold revealing the regression of glaciers in Alaska and Switzerland.

                          In 2005, Arnold was admiring Washburn's famous 1960 image of climbers on the Northeast ridge of Doldenhorn in Switzerland and started wondering what the peaks and glaciers Washburn had so expertly documented looked like now.

                          Soon enough, Arnold was off on the first of five flying expeditions to Alaska and the Swiss Alps.

                          Side by side Washburn's and Arnold's photos record the true extent of glacial retreat -- six and 14 miles respectively in the case of the Shoup and Guyot Glaciers in Alaska.

                          Arnold's painstaking attention has produced images which faithfully reproduce Washburn's angles and perspective. He even made sure he shot his photos on exactly the same day of the year, sometimes the same time as Washburn.

                          The pictures speak for themselves.
                          Report Abuse
            • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 8:57 pm ET)
                 
              Unusual combination: mean-spirited yet funny.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by Mortie (January 24, 2010 8:59 pm ET)
           
        How do you distinginguish a "politically-motivated writer like Will" from a man like Rajendra Pachauri, the highly-qualified locomotive mechanic who chairs the IPCC ?

        Just days before the embarassing back-down, Pachauri assured the media that the IPCC has "a very clear idea of what is happening"; that the Minister for the Environment of India was "supporting unsubstantiated research" and making "an extremely arrogant statement" when he challenged the IPCC conclusions; and that Indian scientists who had prepared a report demonstrating the errors in the IPCC assessment were guilty of “schoolboy science” and “voodoo science”.

        Meanwhile, the lead author of the relevant section in the IPCC report - Murari Lal, who is an atmospheric scientist - went on the warpath, stating that he “outright rejected” any doubts about the validity of the IPCC’s report, and claimed that “The IPCC authors did exactly what was expected from them”. Again, this was just days before the IPCC's embarassing backdown. Lal has now washed his hands of the whole affair, admitting that he is “not an expert on glaciers”, and that he has not even “visited the region”.

        Further evidence now suggests that at least railway engineer Pachauri, if not atmospheris scientist Lal, were aware that the report concerning Himalayan glaciers was flawed even when they made these comments, but decided to "tough it out" rather than admitting to the error.

        So, who is the "politically-motivated writer", and who is the good, honest scientist just reporting the evidence as he sees it ? Centainly not engineman Pachauri.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by comptesg (January 26, 2010 9:10 am ET)
           
        test
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Lumpy43 (January 23, 2010 3:21 pm ET)
         
      My conservative friends say Fox is always saying there is no evidence of the global temperature rising, they say, since 1998. How can I disprove this to at least my friends?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by HeeNow (January 23, 2010 3:41 pm ET)
      6 6
      It doesn't matter.

      No country with the ability to do so, including the U.S., is going to fund the means to combat global warming.

      It hasn't been sold well enough, and continues to be dragged down by these reports.

      If only the scientists had been open, transparent, shared their data, and not squabbled among themselves.

      Alas, it is what it is...a dead horse that will continue to be beaten.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mary59 (January 23, 2010 5:55 pm ET)
        10 1
        Sooo....it's fine that people continue to deny that this exists because scientists have somehow not "sold" the reality of it to the public?

        Global warming has already had drastic consequences in a wide variety of places and hopefully the horse isn't dead. There are many consequences to foot dragging and delaying dealing with the issue.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by HeeNow (January 23, 2010 6:21 pm ET)
          2 7
          You appear to be intelligent, yet extremely naive.

          If this isn't "sold" to the laity, which includes politicians, it will never, ever, be funded.

          And if it isn't funded, it isn't fixable.

          What, in your utopian mind, should be done differently? Keep in mind what's been done so far hasn't worked. The defenestration of Copenhagen is just the latest example.

          And I didn't say it's "fine to deny this".
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (January 23, 2010 7:43 pm ET)
            8 1
            I'm part of the laity and I'm sold. Glad you don't say it's fine. I think that the warming planet will force changes, politics or no.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bilbo_dies (January 23, 2010 7:51 pm ET)
              6  
              Actually I thought his use of "laity" was wrong.

              If it has to be "sold" to someone the "laity" would be the ones doing the selling, not the other way around.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by HeeNow (January 24, 2010 1:26 pm ET)
                1 5
                Are you kidding?

                Ask the "laity" the length of Sun spot cycles.

                IN FACT ASK YOURSELF.

                What kind of post did you really mean?

                Right now, the "laity" thinks it's cold. Does that give you a clue?
                Report Abuse
            • Author by HeeNow (January 24, 2010 1:32 pm ET)
              2 4
              Well to use your last word, no.

              It will never, ever be addressed without politics.

              The warming planet will force nothing, because the warming is too gradual. You can't convince a freezing Minnesotan right now that the planet is warming.

              Please get real and help fight for a political solution instead of just spitting up left-wing ejaculate.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ScienceBuff (January 24, 2010 5:45 pm ET)
                2  
                You can't convince a freezing Minnesotan right now that the planet is warming. - HeeNow
                You've got to be kidding. It was RAINING here in the Twin Cities on Friday night and most of yesterday. Raining. In Minnesota. In January. Right now, Sunday afternoon, it's in the mid-30s.

                The last couple of weeks have been above normal almost every day. We're supposed to have a cold snap again this coming week, but it's really only going to bring things down close to average, perhaps just a bit below.

                Sure, we started the month with an Arctic blast, but we pretty much expect that in January and this year's wasn't all that bad.

                The weather we're experiencing here in Minnesota this month could make it easy to believe in warming.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 8:51 am ET)
                    3
                  But remember...that's weather...not climate. :) I've seen people scolded on this forum for far less.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by ScienceBuff (January 25, 2010 9:10 am ET)
                    2  
                    Nice try, but I wasn't using our local weather to make the case. It was in direct response to the ignorant comment from HeeNow about current Minnesota weather. He asserted that we are currently freezing and I presented him with the reality. My only reference to global warming was a play on his comment, showing how ludicrous and ill-informed it was.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 1:39 am ET)
               
            Just curious: what was thrown out of which windows in Copenhagen? Pretty oblique reference. What have the windows of Copenhagen to do with global climate change?
            I guess I take your point that implementing true change will require adequate funding. So do you advocate letting the issue drop? Until proper salesmanship is employed or permanently?
            You, too, appear to be intelligent, yet difficult to follow. I think we might be missing a valuable point from you. Keep in mind clarity would help.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by bludog1 (January 25, 2010 5:45 pm ET)
            1  
            A very good place to start is to make sure that your data points are accurate.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by mk3872 (January 23, 2010 7:07 pm ET)
          6 2
          HeeNow is spot-on. There is no political will to tackle this problem. Let us all just hope & pray we survive the climate changes as they progressively worsen.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 8:56 am ET)
            1 2
            Hey mk...are you serious? Hope and pray we survive the climate change? Humans are surviving on this globe in the most extreme climates on either end. Why would you think we can't survive any change that comes our way?

            The Hollywood propaganda machine is alive and well I see.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (January 25, 2010 4:20 pm ET)
                1
              Because we won't survive if other plants and animals do not.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 11:39 pm ET)
                2 3
                Well this is a first! Now you're claiming the plants and animals will not survive a .04 increase in temp! This gets richer by the day!

                Less Hollywood end of the world tripe and more time in the library...
                Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:17 am ET)
                     
                  If your strawman alert is not going off, it is obviously in need of repair.
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by phredicles (January 23, 2010 3:57 pm ET)
      10 1
      George Will has always been as dishonest as the rug on top of his head.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by bludog1 (January 23, 2010 4:16 pm ET)
      4 10
      Fascinating. When the facts supporting global warming are inconveniently wrong, some folks lapse into personal attacks. Cute but unfortunate for constructive discussion.

      The absence -- or the breakdown of -- the scientists' "checks and balance" system to authenticate the credibility of the data they cite doesn't help the cause of pending global destruction caused by climate warming.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (January 23, 2010 7:29 pm ET)
        7  
        Bring out your details. I'm pretty sure they've only been debunkt a few hundred times in this forum.

        The basic check in the field is peer reviewed articles in professional publications. You say this has broken down. Again details, or you can continue with inuendo and slander.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (January 24, 2010 12:49 pm ET)
          4 1
          I'm still trying to figure out whose "cause" pending global destruction is. There are so many worthwhile organizations one can put their efforts into, it seems like an odd choice.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 1:19 pm ET)
               
            Are you saying that you honestly can not think of ANYONE that might profit from all things remaining as they are? No one who would prefer NOT to be regulated? Not a single enterprise that might benefit from the profits of further pollution? REALLY??
            If so, it seems you suffer from a SEVERE lack of imagination.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by HeeNow (January 24, 2010 1:54 pm ET)
          2 5
          Edwin Hubble brought up detail upon detail against the "peer reviewed articles in professional publications" in the 1920's.

          His findings were considered slander. There had been astronomical catalogs published for hundreds of years. All of the poison arrows were pointed at him. I believe there may be something named after him today...

          "Debunkt", in your post is not a word. If you care to respond to a scientific post, you would be best advised to learn how to spell.

          On top of that, you should be advised to question observational science. It was wrong for 2,500 years under Aristotle, and it may well be wrong today. Always question.

          Never close your eyes.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (January 24, 2010 2:50 pm ET)
            5  
            Point to an scientific GW denier that you put into the status of Edwin Hubble.

            You could also use the debates on global tectonics, what powers the sun, eugenics, manned flight, and almost any scientific field.

            I go with the saying that anything an elder scientist tells you is impossible will probably happen. He will be mistaken in his belief.

            Bebunk. Explain the importance of spelling above all else when speaking of science. Explain the importance of pointing it out when you can't complain about anything substansive.

            Observational science is what caused the move away from the science of Aristotle. Mindless adherence to the his writings had nothing to do with the observation by its public follower's. Islam was the source of these and other Greek writings as used by Europe in any learning institution after arround 1000 AD. They added to these writings as well from their observations. Commented on them and argued about them as well.

            There maybe things about science more important than spelling.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:36 am ET)
            1  
            "Debunkt", in your post is not a word. If you care to respond to a scientific post, you would be best advised to learn how to spell.
            Nobody likes a grammar Nazi. The only time it's interesting is if it is unintentionally hilarious, like misspelling an intended insult.

            [http://www.dublins98.ie/wp-content/files/2009/10/192280-comic_book_guy_13018_large.jpg]
            Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (January 23, 2010 9:03 pm ET)
        5 1
        doggy -

        "The absence -- or the breakdown of -- the scientists' "checks and balance" system to authenticate the credibility of the data they cite doesn't help the cause of pending global destruction caused by climate warming."

        So much "blah, blah, blah" coming from denialists. It will never stop, because there will always be ignorance and stupidity.

        Normal, rational people, who know that they AREN'T the EXPERTS know that the real experts have spoken - over 95% agree ACC is a reality.

        Now you point fingers at the scientists who aren't afraid of admitting when they aren't correct.

        WOW! Scientist ACTUALLY ADMITTED THEY MADE A MISTAKE!!!!

        So, how can this work in the denialists' conspiracy theory again? How can you have a conspiracy, if those #$%@ scientists keep admitting when they find errors???? Wait! Who's in charge of "hiding the decline?"

        If a goof-up is made, it's admitted. THAT'S how science works.

        But, denialists will NEVER admit when they are wrong. THAT's how belief systems work.

        Denialism is a religion. A belief system just like creationism. Dismiss the evidence in favor of a wacked-out, fairy-tale bunch of mumbo-jumbo.

        I gotta hand it to you denialists, it takes real skill to remain as stupid as you are.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Locus (January 24, 2010 12:53 am ET)
             
          SLRTX, what you are saying is simply not true. The reason that the Climategate emails are such a scandal is because they show people doing their very best to hide their work from others lest a mistake be found. The AGW scientists are not admitting mistakes unless forced to by an FOI request. That's not "how science works". That's the breakdown in the checks and balances system.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by sepirothpk (January 24, 2010 4:54 am ET)
             
          Well technically science is a belief system since every thing is based on fundamentals that are difficult to prove where people hypothesise whether something is true or not. No amount of evidence can prove a theory right, but one piece can prove it wrong.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 9:02 am ET)
          1 2
          Now you point fingers at the scientists who aren't afraid of admitting when they aren't correct.


          The scientists at the IPCC WERE AFRAID of admitting when they were wrong and that is the point. See my response in a post above.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by vhw28672478 (January 25, 2010 12:08 pm ET)
            1 1
            wrong again You nothing about sci
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 11:41 pm ET)
              1 2
              I guess that whole Economist article I posted is "wrong again"?

              You nothing [sic] about reading comprehension.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:43 am ET)
                   
                The Economist article you cited does not go into the scientists feelings that I can see. Can you quote the part of the article that quotes IPCC scientists saying they "WERE AFRAID of admitting when they were wrong" or anything to that effect? It looks like you are making an apparently unsupported inference or attempting mind-reading...again.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 1:45 am ET)
           
        Do you not agree that publishing a corrective report, which is what Mr. Will mistakenly cited, is evidence that peer review (or as you put it: "checks and balances") ACTUALLY DOES WORK? If not I frar you miss the whole point.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by everettbme (January 23, 2010 4:18 pm ET)
      5  
      Wow. If the WSJ says it, than we know it must be true. Hey George, why don't you go back to writung basebase stories.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by eb (January 23, 2010 7:15 pm ET)
      6  
      Someone tell Beck! Scientist are also going to drag us into a communist and fascist future along with all those progressives. I am sure the Nazis and Stalinists had scientist working for them. Some of them might have even been studying climate. I am sure Hitler was an evironmentalist. Didn't he like hanging out in the mountains. Global warming activists are going to send us to the Gulag.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Locus (January 24, 2010 12:26 am ET)
         
      Will didn't claim that this acknowledged error of the IPCC was some sort of blockbuster revelation. He called it "a dollop of evidence". A mere dollop. Will didn't argue that the glacier error overturned the entire field of AGW, but that it showed the seepage of dubious science into the field. Not a tidal wave or even a ripple but just seepage. Will didn't say that the debate is over but only that we should "proceed cautiously". As a critique of the current state of AGW research Will's paragraph is extraordinarily mild.

      But apparently any criticism, any criticism at all, of AGW is enough to offend the fundamentalists at Media Matters who will countenance no dissent. And as a consequence of that fanaticism Media Matters has completely misrepresented and distorted Will's commentary.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by mccoytg (January 24, 2010 8:13 am ET)
         
      How about a different approach with old George Will. I believe he considers himself a religious Christian.

      Lets ask him to apply his same keen analysis on the Biblical story of Noah's arc in the bible.

      There is clearly zero evidence that the world was completely covered by water between 4000 and 8000 years ago. NONE.

      There is also clearly no evidence that all human, animal, insect, and plant life was derived from a single source like the arc between 4000 and 8000 years ago. NONE.

      And the whole flood myth is part of earlier cultures that are known to pre-date the old testament.

      So what conclusion to draw from this? Anyone with two working brain cells can see that the story is made up and that it was adapted and added into the old testament from much earlier writing.

      This means that one can not deny that there is stuff in the bible which is not historical. In fact - it contains significant amounts of made-up stuff.

      This means the reader has to look at the whole bible and see what parts are made up and which parts are historical. And that you have a responsibility to teach this to your children so that they are not misled into thinking that everything they read in the book is real.

      Since interpretation of the bible as 100% historical has been the cause of much evil in the world (for example the persecution of Jews throughout modern history - leading to the holocaust), perhaps George could focus a article or two on the ethical responsibility of parents indoctrinating their children into Christianity to ensure that children understand that the bible has made up stuff in it and it is their responsibility not to take everything in it literally or as historical. They should doubt everything in it and then apply reason, logic, and insight into every part of it and see what they believe is historical, what they believe is metaphorical, what they believe is made up, and what parts of it no longer apply to the modern world.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by jcutler9 (January 24, 2010 9:32 am ET)
      4  
      George Will suggests that because there may be errors in climate science, we should "proceed cautiously" in combatting it. The way we proceed cautiously in destruction of tropical forests, blowing off mountain tops, drilling for oil in fragile areas, off-shore drilling, oil shale and tar sands drilling, and the air and water pollution that result from those processes. Oh, and the way we proceed cautiously in invasions of countries that have our oil under their sands.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (January 24, 2010 10:02 am ET)
      2 8
      We all know (or at least suspect) that global warming is happening. Well certainly that global climate change is happening. The funny thing is that it has been happening since the beginning of the earth. Nothing you folks can say will make it "mad made". Quite simply it's not. NO matter of science says otherwise. Any scientist that claims this is "man made" climate change is getting money just like Mann... hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... pathetic...

      Don't ANY of you fearmongers find it interesting that not ONE, not a SINGLE so called "scientist" noticed the 315 year discrepancy? hmmm... hmmm... hmmm... Well on the bright side it could be that they were afraid of being called deniers... CLEARLY you all would be all over a REAL scientist that noted the "small error"... pathetic...

      BTW I wonder where we'd be if the earth didn't experience global warming at the end of the last great ice age??? or should I say glaciating period...

      Isn't it time to move onto another fearmonger...

      here try this, PROVE climate change is the "fault" of man-kind without using the previously discredited and faked data... OK that's too hard, just produce the "unscrubbed" data and a real scientist can "replicate" the gw fear-mongering "scientists" like algore....
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Appleboy (January 24, 2010 10:27 am ET)
        9 1
        Wow, I didn't know scientist now believe natural climate change never existed. Thank you for that great bit of info.

        And thanks for the following bit of "conservative" logic:

        - Natural climate change has always existed
        - Human produced greenhouse gases are not natural
        - Therefore, ACC cannot be occurring
        Report Abuse
        • Author by eb (January 24, 2010 12:27 pm ET)
          7  
          I agree, its such a vapid approach to the issue: Pretend that basic understandings of climate science are overlooked by all these foolish alarmist scientist so as to discredit them.

          What a lot of those in denial forget is that the chemical properties of the atmosphere and the history of the climate is where a lot of the concern comes from. The scientist realize that climate is a wild roller coaster ride. They also see modern civilization as having an impact. Funny how conservatives think they are the only ones who think actions have consequences. Then again Rush Limbaugh says he can't imagine how human beings could have a global impact on the health of the planet. Certainly no bias there...
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (January 24, 2010 1:00 pm ET)
            6 1
            Hummer seems to be about a year or two behind the more "savvy" Denial Cultists. I wish some of these retro-wingnuts would check GW-related threads at this site from back then before posting their vintage material. It might save them some embarrassment.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by eb (January 24, 2010 1:39 pm ET)
              5  
              A bit slow on the uptake it seems. For example, we still seem to be bombarded by the discredited notion that the last decade was cooler.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Samurai Cowboy (January 24, 2010 2:10 pm ET)
                4 2
                It's because the people like fairliberal, hummer, cheney2010, kdork (who lives up to his name) and others really have nothing of substance to say. They can't formulate a proper response because the RNC playbook is outdated, just like the party it self.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by Why_Not_Me (January 24, 2010 12:56 pm ET)
        4 1
        It's raining today in Michigan. Weird, huh?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (January 24, 2010 10:51 pm ET)
          1 4
          You know it is against the rules of AGW to use weather as an indicator of climate.
          weird, huh?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (January 25, 2010 3:29 am ET)
            2  
            edross, did you just hear a "whooshing" noise above your head ?
            Report Abuse
        • Author by sepirothpk (January 25, 2010 12:54 am ET)
          1  
          And it's not raining in Melbourne today. Weird, huh?
          Look, I can make irrelevant at-the-moment points too.
          Except, there hasn't been much rain in Melbourne for a while now
          Report Abuse
      • Author by hamroad (January 24, 2010 1:29 pm ET)
           
        You forgot to mention that "carbon dioxide exists in nature, therefore, it has no harmful effects." Why? Hmmmm, hmmmm, hmmmmmmmm, how is it that only SOME logical fallacies inconvenience you, yet you regularly trot out others? How do you choose between which shreds of convoluted logic you reference? Try just throwing darts at a chart on the wall. At least that way you would have some form of randomness to your errors.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 9:12 am ET)
        1 2
        Isn't it time to move onto another fearmonger...


        Oh, but they're getting so much mileage out of this one!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Samurai Cowboy (January 24, 2010 10:57 am ET)
      7  
      Now that corporations can finance elections, George Will needs to get a NASCAR Drivers jacket with patches from Exxon/Mobile, Shell, BP, Lucas Oil and others so that everyone knows who is paying him.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Blueneck (January 24, 2010 2:00 pm ET)
        5  
        One of the best ideas I have seen here. All elected officials who take corporate money should be required to wear jackets emblazoned with patches and crests from their corporate masters. If they accept over $100,000.00 from anyone in any election cycle a tatoo in a minimum 36 point font should be placed on their forehead. When they run out of room on their forheads (which they will) they get a mandatory head shave: space for the rest. No more $30,000.00 Kiton merino wool suits; just down home NASCAR firesuits. The only thing we need to do is come up with sponsors (and maybe some creative logos) for the corporate whores in Congress and in the media. I kind of like the idea of designing for Joe Lieberman's suit around the Orkin logo. [http://www.asburyparkpestcontrol.com/images/orkin-logo_320x240.jpg]
        Brought to you by cockroaches for Joe. We will prevail!
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 9:16 am ET)
        2 3
        Don't forget that unions can finance elections also.

        [http://www.weblo.com/asset_images/large/Teamsters_Union_logo_icon_47acaef2092a4.jpg]

        How would that look with a big gold rope chain around Granny Pelosi's neck?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by vhw28672478 (January 25, 2010 12:07 pm ET)
          3 1
          You are wrong Global warming is a fact
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Blueneck (January 25, 2010 12:23 pm ET)
          2  
          I'm fine with the Teamster's Union logo if Pelosi accepts money from them. But not around her neck; and no gold chains. It must be on an official NASCAR firesuit. And if she has too many tatoos on her forehead her entire head will be shaved too. No exceptions to full disclosure rules--even for you, whom we know never to post false, misleading or derailing information.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by EZ4you2say (January 25, 2010 1:19 pm ET)
            1 3
            Obama would look like a walking billboard.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Blueneck (January 25, 2010 3:49 pm ET)
              3  
              Glad to see so many wingnuts are in agreement about full disclosure of donations and funding of political campaigns. I think the NASCAR firesuit model is an excellent one. It is instructive though to compare the leading contributors of Obama and McCain's presidential campaigns:

              Obama:

              University of California $1,591,395
              Goldman Sachs $994,795
              Harvard University $854,747
              Microsoft Corp $833,617
              Google Inc $803,436
              Citigroup Inc $701,290
              JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
              Time Warner $590,084
              Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
              Stanford University $586,557
              National Amusements Inc $551,683
              UBS AG $543,219
              Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
              Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
              IBM Corp $528,822
              Columbia University $528,302
              Morgan Stanley $514,881
              General Electric $499,130
              US Government $494,820
              Latham & Watkins $493,835

              McCain:

              Merrill Lynch $373,595
              Citigroup Inc $322,051
              Morgan Stanley $273,452
              Goldman Sachs $230,095
              JPMorgan Chase & Co $228,107
              US Government $208,379
              AT&T Inc $201,438
              Wachovia Corp $195,063
              UBS AG $192,493
              Credit Suisse Group $183,353
              PricewaterhouseCoopers $167,900
              US Army $167,820
              Bank of America $166,026
              Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher $159,596
              Blank Rome LLP $154,226
              Greenberg Traurig LLP $146,437
              US Dept of Defense $144,105
              FedEx Corp $131,974
              Bear Stearns $117,498
              Lehman Brothers $114,357

              I'll trade you a Harvard University and a Columbia University patch for a Merrill Lynch and a Lehman brothers patch. You know...pretending that you slum with both godless intellectuals and the 'common man' never hurt an image. By the way Obama received zero in Federal funds while McCain received over 80 million dollars. Note also that 88% of Obama's funding was from individual contributors (compared to 54% for McCain). Can and will corporate purchases of Congresspersons tilt the board in favor of our corporate oligarchy? Time will tell. Data from OpenSecrets.org (in case you care). But don't count your yachts before they are built.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 25, 2010 11:47 pm ET)
                1 3
                Don't forget that the majority of that 88% was $20 and under which didn't have to be reported as to whom, what, where, when or how. How much was funneled? We'll never know.

                The beauty is that if you continue on this path, he'll be a one term wonder and we can end this little experiment.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Blueneck (January 26, 2010 4:33 am ET)
                  1 1
                  How much was funneled?

                  Oh wait-you answered your own question:

                  We'll never know.

                  And that is the point--you don't know and have no facts to back your assertion.
                  The beauty is that if you continue on this path, he'll be a one term wonder and we can end this little experiment.

                  Maybe he will be a one term president (I really don't know and you don't either); but I would suggest that the real 'beauty' for folks like you is that you is that in a forum like this you can say whatever you want and never have to provide corroborating facts or evidence. Baseless assertion and innuendo will always do quite nicely. But please get back to me if you can support your claims with actual data. I can tell you this though. Two terms of George W. Bush is something this country may never get over. If anything: that is a failed experiment that should never have happened.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Tbone Slickens (January 26, 2010 8:42 am ET)
                     
                  The first line should read..."88% was $200 and under"...

                  Caught the mistake this morning.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (January 26, 2010 10:52 am ET)
                 
              Most of them would. I think its a great idea.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by Neil Craig (January 24, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
         
      There is not a genuine "scientific consesnsus" on catastrrophic global warming at all. The idea put forward here that there is such a consensus on the glaciers metling by 2030, as the IPcc claimed but have recently announced is untrue, is ridiculous - apart from anything else that is not something the totallity of the world's scientists have ever discussed.

      I have asked journalists, politicians & alarmist lobbyists now totalling in the thousands to name 2 prominent scientists, not funded by government or an alarmist lobby who have said that we are seeing a catastrophic degree of warming & none of them have yet been able to do so. I extend this same invitation here.

      There is not & never was a genuine scientific consensus on this, though scientists seeking government funds have been understandably reluctant to speak. If there were anything approaching a consensus it would, with over 31,000 scientists having signed the Oregon petition saying it is bunk, it would be easy to find a similar number of independent scientists saying it was true, let alone 2. The whole thing depends on a very small number of people & a massive government publicity machine, both very well funded by the innocent taxpayer.
      Report Abuse

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