About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

Wash. Times' Gaffney falsely claims Americans "overwhelmingly oppose" gays serving in military

February 02, 2010 4:51 pm ET — 146 Comments

In a Washington Times column, Frank Gaffney falsely asserted that Americans "overwhelmingly ... oppose conferring on homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender individuals and hermaphrodites a nonexistent 'right' to serve openly in the military." In fact, numerous polls show "overwhelmingly" high support for allowing gays to serve openly in the military.

Gaffney claims "American people" oppose gays in the military

From Gaffney's February 2 column in The Washington Times:

When the dust settles on this battle, my bet is that the American people and their elected representatives will continue overwhelmingly to oppose conferring on homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender individuals and hermaphrodites a nonexistent "right" to serve openly in the military. We will thus avoid breaking the all-volunteer force, and it will be, instead, Mr. Obama's standing as commander in chief that will have suffered further grievous and perhaps irreparable harm. [The Washington Times, 2/2/10]

Numerous polls find strong support for gays serving openly in the military

Gallup: 69 percent "in favor of military service by openly gay men and lesbians." Results of a May 2009 USA Today/Gallup poll indicated that "69% of Americans in favor of military service by openly gay men and lesbians."

Quinnipiac: 56 percent say "ban on openly gay men and women in the military should be repealed." An April 2009 Quinnipiac poll concluded, "The ban on openly gay men and women in the military should be repealed, American voters say 56-37 percent, including 50-43 percent among voters with family in the military."

CNN: poll shows "81 percent of respondents believe openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military." A January 15, 2009, CNN.com article reported: "Public opinion appears to be shifting on the matter. A CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll conducted December 19-21 found that 81 percent of respondents believe openly gay people should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military, while 17 percent said they shouldn't."

Washington Post: 75 percent "said gay people who are open about their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve." Results from a July 2008 ABC News/Washington Post poll indicated that 75 percent of respondents support allowing openly gay individuals to serve in the military. A July 19, 2008,  Washington Post article reported, "Seventy-five percent of Americans in a new Washington Post-ABC News poll said gay people who are open about their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military, up from 62 percent in early 2001 and 44 percent in 1993."

Wash. Times has a history of anti-gay rhetoric, including smears of gays in the military

Newspaper's attacks include warnings against "gay agenda," smears of gays in the military, and minimizing AIDS epidemic. Media Matters for America has compiled an extensive -- though by no means all-inclusive -- list of anti-gay rhetoric since the late 1980s, including the paper's warnings against the "gay agenda," attacks on the possibility of gay men and lesbians serving openly in the military, minimizing of the AIDS epidemic, and attacks on gay relationships and gay rights.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by southerngal (February 02, 2010 5:30 pm ET)
      4 6
      If the chairman of the joint Chiefs Mullen thinks it's the right thing to do, that's good enough for me.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (February 02, 2010 5:49 pm ET)
        4  
        He is a pretty good judge of what should be done for the Armed Forces in general I would have to believe.

        Plus, there is a lot of evidence out there from other Armies around the world who have done this, and you know, nothing "bad" happened. Take the IDF for example. What I would consider possibly one of the best fighting forces in the world (not better than us of course), they allow gays to serve openly. Nothing has happened to the IDF.

        I mean, what are these guys scared of anyway?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 5:52 pm ET)
            7
          I mean, what are these guys scared of anyway?

          The cost.
          How do you separate all the various groups by their sexual prefrences?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (February 02, 2010 6:07 pm ET)
            7  
            "How do you separate all the various groups by their sexual prefrences?"

            Huh? Why would anyone even think of doing that?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by vhw28672478 (February 02, 2010 6:12 pm ET)
              6  
              Gaffney is a joke
              Report Abuse
              • Author by hurricaneyankee52983 (February 02, 2010 11:53 pm ET)
                6  
                GAFFNEY is a member of the PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY,a NEO CON organization that advocates the U.S. flexing it's military muscle all over the world. He hasn't met a war that he dosen't approve of, but as with most NEO CONs he never served himself.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 6:13 pm ET)
              2  
              One of the rare times I agree with you.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 6:33 pm ET)
                8
              Why would anyone even think of doing that?

              It's how it's done now.
              Why not try this on a national level before experimenting with the military? No longer have male/female latrines, showers, dressing rooms, etc... See if society accepts it.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (February 02, 2010 6:37 pm ET)
                4  
                Male/female areas are not because of sexual preferences. You certainly can't believe that.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 6:43 pm ET)
                  2 3
                  Correct sir. I don't believe that. My question is why are they segregated by gender? Why not remove all laws regarding separation of gender?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (February 02, 2010 6:46 pm ET)
                    3 2
                    They are separated by gender because of biological differences and simple respect. Not because of who they sleep with. Gay and straight men are of the same gender. I really don't know what your point is.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 6:57 pm ET)
                      1 5
                      Respect? Respect for whom? How does a gay person explain to his counterpart that he showered with (whomever) another gay person that it meant nothing? It's the same as me trying to explain to my wife that I showered with another woman and it's all good. Regardless, the other half will be resentful.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:06 pm ET)
                        4  
                        I think you're confusing private with public.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 8:32 pm ET)
                        3 1
                        Soldiers do not shower together in the barracks.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by albertsenj (February 03, 2010 12:46 am ET)
                        3 1
                        Are you sure YOU haven't showered (at the gym for example) with someone who is gay? How can you be so sure?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:06 pm ET)
                          1  
                          I think what he is saying is that after he does shower in the same locker room as gay men he rushes home to explain to his wife that it meant nothing. Truly bizarre.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by bintx (February 03, 2010 11:43 am ET)
                        3  
                        Bad analogy. You are assuming wrongly that gay men are just out trolling for sex with another man. A gay man showering with another gay man is no different than two heterosexual men showering together.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:05 pm ET)
                        1  
                        Are you serious, oozin, or are you doing satire? You think gay men who play sports go home and explain to their significant other that the shower they took after the game meant nothing? Because their partner would be..what?..Jealous? That is bizarre. Gay or straight, you may need to look inward to solve your jealousy and control issues. Men and women would have separate showers and bathrooms (as they do in the rest of the civilized world) because of biological differences. It is actually pretty simple to anyone who passed 9th grade health class.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 6:47 pm ET)
                    5  
                    I don't know what your point is. Gays and Straight people are already doing all the things you mentioned above together.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 6:51 pm ET)
                        5
                      Now they will do it openly. There is a big difference.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 6:53 pm ET)
                        5  
                        It'll only effect the homophobes.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:00 pm ET)
                            4
                          Are you claiming only heterosexuals get jealous?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:04 pm ET)
                            3 1
                            I'm talking about bigotry.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:06 pm ET)
                                6
                              Lame argument/defense loonz. I'm not a bigot.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:07 pm ET)
                                3  
                                I say you are.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:08 pm ET)
                                    5
                                  OUCH, that hurt. sarc
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:11 pm ET)
                                    3  
                                    Your arguments against repealing DADT make no sense so I can only assume you're a bigot.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:27 pm ET)
                                        5
                                      I am not arguing against repealing DADT. I want to know why the government wants to test this on the military. Why not try it on a national level first? Remove all gender laws and let the chips fall.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:33 pm ET)
                                        2  
                                        What gender laws are on the books?
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:43 pm ET)
                                            5
                                          Good question. If I were to go to LAFitness and use the female locker room , I'm certain management would have a problem with it. If I told them to show me a law saying I couldn’t they would throw me out. Would I be able to sue?
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 7:58 pm ET)
                                            3  
                                            That's the policy of a private company; It's has nothing to do with the government. Go find a gym that has a unisex locker room.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:03 pm ET)
                                                4
                                              Ok, I used a bad example. If I were to go to the Pima County Court house, use the womens restroom and a female complained to security, could I tell her/them to show me why I couldn't?
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:05 pm ET)
                                                3  
                                                Yeah.
                                                Report Abuse
                                              • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:08 pm ET)
                                                3  
                                                Why are you so hung up on it being done in other places before the military?
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:10 pm ET)
                                                    4
                                                  I'm in the military
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:17 pm ET)
                                                    4  
                                                    So? We don't separate straight and gay males or straight or gay women in this country.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
                                                    2  
                                                    No you aren't. If you were then you would know that soldiers, male or female do not shower together anymore.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:43 pm ET)
                                                        4
                                                      I did not say shower red, I said sleep. Catch-up.
                                                      Furthermore, as a member of the military, you may share a tent with females but there will be a heavy partition between you and them and if you are caught going thru it, you are at risk (your word against any other females in the room) of breaking GO1. As you know, in tent quiet hours are 24/7 and if a member of the opposite sex is caught in a billet of the other it's a bust.
                                                      Report Abuse
                                                      • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 9:03 pm ET)
                                                        3  
                                                        No, there are times when tents are not partititioned off. I have slept next to females in the field a few times. GO1 has nothing to do with being in a females room or not, but rather about having sexual relations with them while being deployed.
                                                        Report Abuse
                                                        • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 9:07 pm ET)
                                                          4  
                                                          Respect? Respect for whom? How does a gay person explain to his counterpart that he showered with (whomever) another gay person that it meant nothing?


                                                          No you didn't say anything about showering either. LOL
                                                          Report Abuse
                                                          • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 9:37 pm ET)
                                                              5
                                                            You're so clever. What branch did you go thru basic trainig?... Were your shower bays seperated?
                                                            Report Abuse
                                                            • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 10:26 pm ET)
                                                              3  
                                                              I went through basic in the Army and probably before you were born, when we slept in open bays with 40 dudes and even then there were semi-private showers, certainly no communal showers. My first tour in germany the showers were still like that but those types of barracks have been renovated.
                                                              Report Abuse
                                                              • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 10:58 pm ET)
                                                                  5
                                                                I went through AF basic in 1994 the shower area consisted of two walls with seven shower heads each. There was a 2.5 minute limit and the next guy was waiting. No dividers/stalls.
                                                                Report Abuse
                                                                • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 2:21 am ET)
                                                                  3  
                                                                  Ok, I went to basic 10 years before you did. And even then you probably showered with someone who was gay.
                                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by albertsenj (February 03, 2010 12:55 am ET)
                                                    3  
                                                    Well, in that case troop, you're familiar with the concept of obeying your superiors. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the Secretary of Defense and the Commander-in-Chief all believe that this should be repealed.

                                                    According to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the issue is professionalism.

                                                    If you were hospitalized you wouldn't have any problem with someone the opposite sex assisting you with a bedpan or bathing - would you?
                                                    Report Abuse
                                              • Author by my4cents (February 02, 2010 8:12 pm ET)
                                                3  
                                                Depends on what physical parts you have (nothing to do with your sexual preference)
                                                Unless you use rest rooms to have sex.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:20 pm ET)
                                                    4
                                                  LGBT groups disagree with gender/sexual prefrences argument.
                                                  About the restroom sex comment. No I never have, but I read that interstate rest/bus stops are common gay meeting spots.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:25 pm ET)
                                                    2  
                                                    Only for the group that's identified as trans-gender.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:26 pm ET)
                                                        4
                                                      Are we to leave them out of the discussion?
                                                      Report Abuse
                                                      • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:28 pm ET)
                                                        3  
                                                        How are they germane to what we're talking about?
                                                        Report Abuse
                                                        • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:48 pm ET)
                                                            4
                                                          Ok. How do you suggest the military determine sexuality? Should they add the following to the questionare:
                                                          Mark all that apply.
                                                          I am:
                                                          Straight-
                                                          Gay-
                                                          Bi-
                                                          Trans-
                                                          Other- [explain below]
                                                          ________________________________________________
                                                          Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:10 pm ET)
                                                    2  
                                                    "No I never have, but I read that interstate rest/bus stops are common gay meeting spots." - Oozin

                                                    Wow. You read that, did you? Was it written on the stall wall in the airport restroom you were hanging out in?
                                                    Report Abuse
                                              • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:08 pm ET)
                                                  1
                                                Wow. Oozin thinks that fitness centers and jails have separate showers for heterosexuals and homosexuals. What fantasy world are you living in, oozin?
                                                Report Abuse
                                      • Author by worrierking (February 02, 2010 9:41 pm ET)
                                        4  
                                        It has nothing to do with gender.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 9:48 pm ET)
                                            4
                                          What's the point of this whole argument then? LGBT groups claim gender has nothing to do with sexuality. Take all the signs off the doors and let all genders use all facilities. For nothing other than medical reasons should gender be a question.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 9:56 pm ET)
                                            3  
                                            Do you believe people should be kicked out of the military for being gay?
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 10:02 pm ET)
                                                5
                                              No.
                                              From my experience, all that were kicked out knew they were gay before they joined and decided they "wanted" out! They used DADT as an excuse for early out.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 10:13 pm ET)
                                                3 1
                                                No. It's like when Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus. They were taking a stand against bigotry.

                                                If you agree that they shouldn't be kicked out, what's your problem with DADT being repealed?
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 10:34 pm ET)
                                                    4
                                                  I am not arguing against repealing DADT. I want to know why the government wants to enact a gender/sexual test on the military. Why not try it on a national level first? Remove all gender related signs, questions, etc...from non medical government documents and let the chips fall.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 10:56 pm ET)
                                                    3  
                                                    What test are you talking about? All that will happen is that gays will no longer be kicked out of the military simply for being who they are which in turn means they can serve openly.

                                                    I'm still trying figure out why you keep bringing gender into this. DADT was put in place to accommodate bigots in and out of the military and it's going to be repealed. The gender signs and questions will still be there.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 11:08 pm ET)
                                                        4
                                                      Gender does not determine sexuality! Remove ALL gender biases from government facilities first and see how it works, then apply it to the military.
                                                      Report Abuse
                                              • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 10:48 pm ET)
                                                5  
                                                Funny all of the gays I know that were kicked out did not want to be kicked out and fought to stay in. I have never known anyone to use DADT to get out early.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 11:03 pm ET)
                                                    4
                                                  That's your experience. It's not funny, just different.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by Unreality (February 02, 2010 11:59 pm ET)
                                                    4  
                                                    OOZ,
                                                    You do realize, of course, that since 1994 you have been serving with homosexuals? In essence, if you're straight, nothing will change. If you're gay, you won't have to fear a witchhunt.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                      • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 10:41 pm ET)
                                        3  
                                        this isn't a test, it has already been tested for years in the civilian world.
                                        Report Abuse
                                      • Author by jediknight65 (February 03, 2010 11:38 am ET)
                                        2  
                                        well see there was a little experiment that was tried in the military first and later tried on the national level that worked out just fine.....its called desegregation of the military.

                                        let me guess you didn't think that was a good idea either right? even though it.....well it worked.

                                        maybe thats why it is being done this way because there is a precedent. it was tried and succeeded.
                                        Report Abuse
                              • Author by buckeyenutlover (February 03, 2010 10:40 am ET)
                                2  
                                if you're against gay rights of any kind: gays in the military, same-sex marriage, etc. you ARE a bigot, plain and simple. you're advocating for different rights for different people, which is discriminatory and bigoted. You are the modern-day Jesse Helms. History will not be kind to bigots like you.
                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by bintx (February 03, 2010 11:45 am ET)
                                2  
                                Your posts here and on the other thread where you pretended to be concerned would indicate otherwise.
                                Report Abuse
                      • Author by jediknight65 (February 03, 2010 11:36 am ET)
                        1  
                        and you obviously have a problem with that. because why? gays are people just like us. so they prefer the same sex. big deal. thats their choice.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by bintx (February 03, 2010 11:44 am ET)
                        1  
                        Nope, no difference except to homophobic concern trolls like you.
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by Lizinbklyn (February 03, 2010 2:01 pm ET)
                2  
                Have you ever been to Europe??

                There are no mens/ladies rooms. ONE bathroom in restaurants.

                Give it up with the showers, please . .

                Section the showers off. How expensive could that be??

                Society has nothing to do with repealing DADT. I'm a part of 'society' and if they're happy, I'm happy . .

                This is none of our business. Let the military handle it . .
                Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (February 02, 2010 7:42 pm ET)
            4  
            OOzinEvil --

            It's simple. Just think about it.

            If everyone's soooo hung up about it, just try this:

            The lesbians with the hetero guys.

            The gay men with the women.

            Or, we can just do what all the other countries do.

            Just keep the guys together and the women together. No problem. Yawn.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:54 pm ET)
                8
              The question is sexual preference. When gender is no longer the determining factor, how do you separate those that are attracted to whatever sex they decide that moment? Currently it's done by gender. Well, why should a hetero be segregated?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:00 pm ET)
                3  
                When gender is no longer the determining factor, how do you separate those that are attracted to whatever sex they decide that moment?


                What's that suppose to mean?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:06 pm ET)
                    5
                  It means everyone will requre their own room and shower. It's a financial nightmare
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:09 pm ET)
                    2  
                    Why?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:14 pm ET)
                        4
                      Are you asking why they will need their own room or why it wil be a financial nightmare?
                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 8:23 pm ET)
                    4  
                    In spite of what you think about how the barracks in the military are. Most soldiers either have their own rooms or have one room mate. They do not have communal showers, but eather each room has their own bathroom or they share the bathroom with the room next to them, but either way, there are doors that can be closed. BTW I have been on quite a few deployments where males and females slept in the same tent.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 8:27 pm ET)
                      6 1
                      This OZZ guy seems to fear gay people.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by DellDolly (February 03, 2010 1:41 am ET)
                        5  
                        And that's the problem. Unless gays start imposing upon straights, and start raping straight men, then there's no problem!

                        Gay men don't want to have sex with straight men. They want to have a relationship with another gay man. So there's no issue with a gay man and a straight man bunking together, showering together, unless the straight guy is a homophobe and bigot.
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by SLRTX (February 02, 2010 8:57 pm ET)
                2 1
                OOzinEvil --

                "why should a hetero be segregated?"

                Never suggested that.

                I said segregate the homosexuals. That should satisfy the no-brain, drooling moral values dimwits, right?

                C'mon. Play along. Or, are you just trying to raise a few hackles? Doin' a little trolling tonight?

                Hey everyone. Don't fall for this. Waste of time.

                http://www.flayme.com/troll/

                [http://freethinker.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/troll1.jpg]
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 9:03 pm ET)
                    4
                  "Keep the guys together and the girls together". What determins that SLRTX?
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by SLRTX (February 02, 2010 9:14 pm ET)
                    5  
                    OOzinEvil --

                    One more post to you. I have a no-feed-the-trolls policy.

                    You are so busy trolling, you completely ignored my point. Here it is again (read it slowly this time):

                    "we can just do what all the other countries do.
                    Just keep the guys together and the women together."

                    See? The world won't come crashing in, if we just get with the 21st century and do what everyone else is doing, all will be well.

                    You're so hung up on irrational fears, you can't be taken seriously. Then you wonder why everyone makes fun of you. :-(
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 9:46 pm ET)
                      5 1
                      I'm still trying to figure out what he fears from gays being allowed to serve openly. Is he afraid that known gay people will see him naked?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 9:59 pm ET)
                        5
                      As far as “getting with the 21st century”. The United States Military has more personnel in 5 posts/bases/ports, than any country than China and they are nowhere near as liberal as the USA.
                      I never sensed everyone was making made fun of me. Must be off my game.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 10:51 pm ET)
                        5  
                        What has the size of the military have to do with anything?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by SLRTX (February 03, 2010 10:18 am ET)
                          1  
                          raddave43 --

                          Typical ruse by trolls.

                          Get off-topic, try different idiotic "topics" to use up space on the thread.
                          Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (February 03, 2010 12:00 pm ET)
                2  
                Do you walk around looking for sex all the time??? Wow.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:13 pm ET)
                1  
                Who in the world said gender will not be a determining factor in the military? You think DADT was about not asking people what gender they are?! You are truly bizarre. Or maybe you think heterosexual is a gender? Go back to health class.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by bluestate69 (February 02, 2010 11:11 pm ET)
            4  
            you seem to think you can win this as an "argument". it's not an argument, it's about civil rights. it's the same as saying a person can't serve in the military because of their "religious" beliefs. it's about freedom. tea baggers and republicans "talk" about freedom, but when it pertains to "others", they are against it. nobody is saying that you have to like homosexuality, you can disagree with it just as you would with a political ideology or religious philosophy. you wouldn't kick someone out of the military for being a "democrat", "republican" or a "christian", so why do it because someone is gay?? it's about FREEDOM to be who you are!!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 11:21 pm ET)
                7
              You're off point. I never said a gay person could not serve or do the job. I believe that congress should apply the "gender/sexuality does not matter" rule to all society before testing it on the military.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 2:23 am ET)
                4  
                It has already been applied in the civilian world, it has been applied to 25 of our allies. It is not something new.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:16 pm ET)
                3  
                I think oozin believes that sexual preference and gender are the same thing. He is either being purposefully obtuse or is incredibly ignorant of basic anatomy.
                Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 6:12 pm ET)
        3  
        It doesn't matter what his opinion is. It's the right thing to do.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (February 02, 2010 6:16 pm ET)
          3  
          And I agree with you. If the military condones dishonesty then it condones dishonesty. You can't expect the highest of standards for aspects of service then throw them out the window for others.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:17 pm ET)
            1  
            That's a good point as well. One I had not really thought of. On some level, it is an integrity issue.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by bludog1 (February 02, 2010 6:30 pm ET)
        2 1
        Let me see...for whom does he work?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mikehuck1976 (February 03, 2010 1:01 pm ET)
        1  
        I agree. Clearly, DADT was not working. I think most of us would be amazed how quickly the military can adjust. As soon as the guy next to you proves he is capable and willing to watch your back, you suddenly stop worrying about the little things like skin color or sexual preference.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 6:25 pm ET)
      5  
      Rasmussen will do a poll asking "Should gays be allowed to have sex in the barracks in front of everyone?" They'll get a result of 90%+ against it and conservatives will claim Americans are against DADT being repealed.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by bludog1 (February 02, 2010 6:35 pm ET)
      1 4
      If I read this right, it seems that MMFA has misstated what the columnist actually wrote on the column they objected to...He actually said, according to MMFA, "When the dust settles, my bet is that the American people and their elected representatives will continue overwhelmingly to oppose conferring on homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transgender individuals and hermaphrodites a nonexistent "right" to serve openly in the military." Come on people, get your facts and your headlines right!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 8:29 pm ET)
        4  
        Yes he said that the American people are overwhelminly against gays serving openly in the military when the polls show they are not.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by whatIthink (February 02, 2010 7:03 pm ET)
      3 2
      What it boils down to is ego. As in "I don't want some gay guy next to me in the shower checking out my butt or looking at my pecker." Which only goes to show how conceited people are. These are the same people that sit on their couch, are 300 pounds overweight, and criticize a supermodel on TV for looking "fat", or while at the beach, doing a reasonable impersonation of a beached whale, complaining about how some women shouldn't wear bikinis. News flah folks, just like most women are not going to want to rip off your clothes and ravish you despite your firm belief in your own sexual magnetism, it's the same with gay folks.

      And then theres always the "The cost.
      How do you separate all the various groups by their sexual prefrences? " argument brought up. Look at any other institution that allows gay people to work, live and socialize together openly. There are far fewer instances of sexual harassment and assault than in traditionally "segregated" institutions.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 7:57 pm ET)
          5
        The military is nothing like any other "institution". If you served, you would know this.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by whatIthink (February 02, 2010 8:14 pm ET)
          3  
          12B, 81Q "Essayons"

          1991 - C Co 35 ENG BN, OSUT

          And no, I'm not gay, and yes I knew gay guys who served with me, and no I never felt uncomfortable around them. The only thing I cared about, male or female, gay or straight, is can they do their job? Their personal life was none of my business.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 8:56 pm ET)
              5
            I'm not here to argue with you whatthink. Unlike you, I'm currently in the military. I agree that regardless of sexual orientation if someone can do the job let them. I only question why not remove gender limitations from all society instead of experimenting with the military?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 9:18 pm ET)
              4  
              this is not about gender limitation and it is not a social experiment with the military. It has already been "experimented" in society. Gays and straigts work together. they have lived together for years in colleges dorms.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by whatIthink (February 02, 2010 9:21 pm ET)
              4  
              Last I heard it's illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation. According to the EEOC "It is the policy of the government of the United States to provide equal opportunity in federal employment for all persons, to prohibit discrimination in employment because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, handicap, age, or sexual orientation and to promote the full realization of equal employment opportunity through a continuing affirmative program in each executive department and agency. This policy of equal opportunity applies to and must be an integral part of every aspect of personnel policy and practice in the employment, development, advancement, and treatment of civilian employees of the federal government, to the extent permitted by law."

              So, unlike as you say, it's not "experimenting with the military." It's bringing the military to equal footing with the rest of society that has alrady decided discrimnation based on sexual orientation is not only stupid, but illegal. Last I heard, the military is a federal entity and so show be required to follow federal hiring guidelines.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by loonz (February 02, 2010 9:51 pm ET)
              3 1
              Removing gender limitations won't help someone like you. Just say you have problems with gay people instead of throwing out excuses.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by jediknight65 (February 03, 2010 11:42 am ET)
              2  
              study your history evil. this has been tried before with desegregation of the military.

              or better yet if its easier for you watch Men of Honor
              Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (February 02, 2010 8:27 pm ET)
          1  
          and by your responses it is obvious that you have not served either.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by whatIthink (February 02, 2010 8:30 pm ET)
            1  
            And how is it obvious? I listed my MOS's and where and when I went to basic/ait. If you can't decipher it, it's obvious YOU either never served or you really need to learn some more about the Army.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by OOzinEvil (February 02, 2010 11:39 pm ET)
              5
            I never questioned or belittled anyone's service here. Don't deny mine because I have a different opinion.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Unreality (February 03, 2010 12:33 am ET)
              3  
              Ooz,
              You already serve with gay soldiers. Just exactly what do you think is going to change?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by OOzinEvil (February 03, 2010 1:04 am ET)
                  6
                You already serve with gay soldiers

                When deployed, I may serve with gay soldiers, but at home station the Airmen in my charge (as far as I know) are not gay. I'm not naive. There are most likely a few gay Airmen on base but I've never seen an openly queer couple.
                What do I think will change? Not sure. What would change if society lifted all gender rules?
                Why can't males/females use the same restroom, locker-room, dressing-rooms, etc...? Wouldn't it make life easier?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 2:28 am ET)
                  4  
                  but I've never seen an openly queer couple


                  since you used that term it means you do have problems with gays. Even if DADT were repealed, you probably won't see many open gay couples on post anyway.

                  Your argument about co-ed facilities is worn out as well.
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 2:30 am ET)
              3  
              If you are in the Air Force as you claim, then you know that Airmen do have their own rooms and bathrooms in them. The Quality of life in the Air Force is much higher than the Army when it comes to singles quarters.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by OOzinEvil (February 03, 2010 2:45 am ET)
                  5
                Not when deployed.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 10:44 am ET)
                  2  
                  The quality of life is still more for Airmen even on a deployment. You all get those nice little modular buildings to sleep in.
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by big2xrube6146 (February 02, 2010 7:36 pm ET)
      2  
      So where did Gaffney get his nombers from? I know off the top of his head.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bludog1 (February 03, 2010 7:26 am ET)
        1 4
        I invite you to have a look at my response above. It is more often better to read, digest and then speak rather than to skim,speak and have indigestion later!
        Report Abuse
    • Author by nerzog (February 03, 2010 9:31 am ET)
      1 1
      Well, there you have it. As with the Gay Marriage debate, the bigots who oppose it don't really have a logical argument against it. Essentially, Oozy is arguing that modesty will bring down our armed forces.

      GMAFB
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Boxer1979 (February 03, 2010 10:24 am ET)
        3 1
        Oozinevil is using gender equality to justify his own bigotry towards gays and lesbians serving openly. There is gender equality in this country. It may not be 100%, but it is here. RESTROOM DESEGREGATION??? There are plenty of establishments with co-ed restrooms, and people have no problem using them. They just show repsect if a woman is in there. For safety reasons.

        Bottom Line: Pointless arguement.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 10:51 am ET)
          1 1
          Yes I agree, there are many facilities in the Military that have co-ed bathrooms. I know in Germany there are many facilities such as saunas where they are not separated by Gender, everyone is in there naked and there is no hanky panky going on. So as a wingnut, OOZ wouldn't really want us to be too much like Europe.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by nerzog (February 03, 2010 11:17 am ET)
            2  
            The funny thing is that America's Evangelical Nutbags have one peculiar thing in common with the "Islamofascists" they hate so much; Homophobia. Most Western countries got over the gay thing years ago, but the Republican Troglodytes are trying to hold us back there with the Taliban.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by OOzinEvil (February 03, 2010 12:37 pm ET)
              3
            What are you rambling on about?
            One consistent point I made throughout this discussion was "pro" gender neutral facilities. Locker rooms, restrooms and even saunas fall into the "facilities" category.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (February 03, 2010 3:43 pm ET)
              1  
              You are trying to throw the thread off topic by using that argument. You know that you do not mean it. There are gender neutral facilities in the U.S. to begin with.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (February 03, 2010 12:07 pm ET)
          2  
          I've worked in offices with gender neutral bathrooms. I have one at home, too! LOL!
          Report Abuse

my.MediaMatters.org

Login  Sign Up

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.