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Reminder to media: Claims about CRU emails were debunked

February 11, 2010 5:15 pm ET — 102 Comments

Media outlets have referenced the emails apparently stolen from University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit (CRU) in their recent reports on "record snowfall" and criticisms of the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), suggesting that the emails "undermined" global warming research or reporting claims about what they "appeared to show." Those media did not report, however, that scientists and fact-checkers have found that the emails, in the words of FactCheck.org, "have been misrepresented by global-warming skeptics" and "don't change [the] scientific consensus on global warming."

Media claim emails were "damaging," a "major blow"

CBS: "Trust was already undermined" by emails, "which seemed to show that inconvenient facts were being hidden." On the February 4 edition of the CBS Evening News, reporting on IPCC chief Rajendra Pachauri's acknowledgement of an error about Himalayan glaciers in an IPCC report, correspondent Mark Phillips listed the apparent theft of the emails as evidence providing "ammunition for skeptics" of global warming. Phillips said, "Trust was already undermined by the series of leaked emails at Britain's University of East Anglia -- one of the world's big climate science centers -- which seemed to show that inconvenient facts were being hidden." While Phillips later said, "It's a frustrating time for those who believe the basic science in global warming remains true," Phillips did not note that the claims about the emails have been debunked.

NY Times: "[A]ccusations of errors" by IPCC "follow a controversy" over emails. In a February 9 articleThe New York Times reported that "accusations of errors" by the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change "have sullied the group's reputation," adding: "They follow a controversy that erupted late last year over e-mail messages and documents released without authorization from a climate research center in Britain."

UPI: "Climate science received a major blow" from release of emails. A February 3 UPI article on Pachauri's acknowledgement of the glaciers error reported: "Climate science received a major blow when leaked e-mail exchanges indicated that scientists at the University of East Anglia might have suppressed data pointing to global cooling."

Hill: CRU emails "prompted accusations that researchers may have edited the presentation of data to overstate the threat of warming." A February 9 article in The Hill stating the passage of cap-and-trade this year is unlikely reported that "One of the most damaging setbacks was the emergence last year of hundreds of private e-mail messages sent among American and British climate scientists at the National Center for Atmospheric Research and the University of East Anglia," adding that the emails "prompted accusations that researchers may have edited the presentation of data to overstate the threat of warming."

But fact-checkers, scientists affirm that emails don't undermine climate change consensus

FactCheck.org: Emails "have been misrepresented by global-warming skeptics," "don't change scientific consensus on global warming." FactCheck.org has stated that while the emails "show a few scientists in a bad light, being rude or dismissive," "there's still plenty of evidence that the earth is getting warmer and that humans are largely responsible." In addition, FactCheck noted that "many of the e-mails that are being held up as 'smoking guns' have been misrepresented by global-warming skeptics eager to find evidence of a conspiracy."

AP: Emails "don't support claims that the science of global warming was faked."The Associated Press reported that after "stud[ying] all the e-mails for context, with five reporters reading and rereading them" and submitting "summaries of the e-mails that raised issues from the potential manipulation of data to intensely personal attacks ... to seven experts in research ethics, climate science and science policy," they concluded that "the exchanges don't undercut the vast body of evidence showing the world is warming because of man-made greenhouse gas emissions."

Scientists reaffirm that global warming is real. Following the emails' release, more than 1,700 scientists from the United Kingdom signed a statement responding "to the ongoing questioning of core climate science and methods." The statement said: "We, members of the UK science community, have the utmost confidence in the observational evidence for global warming and the scientific basis for concluding that it is due primarily to human activities." Furthermore, in a December 4, 2009, letter to Congress, 29 prominent scientists, including 11 members of the National Academy of Scientists, stated, "The body of evidence that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming is overwhelming. The content of the stolen emails has no impact whatsoever on our overall understanding that human activity is driving dangerous levels of global warming." Additionally, a December 3, 2009, editorial in the science journal Nature stated: "Nothing in the e-mails undermines the scientific case that global warming is real -- or that human activities are almost certainly the cause," and that claims to the contrary by "the climate-change-denialist fringe" are "laughable." The American Meteorological Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the Union of Concerned Scientists have all reaffirmed their position that human-caused global warming is real.

Climate emails have been repeatedly misrepresented to cast doubt on global warming. As Media Matters for America has noted, the media have repeatedly misrepresented the contents of the reportedly stolen emails in order to claim that they cast doubt on the scientific basis for the consensus that human-caused global warming is real.

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    • Author by progressivevoicedaily (February 11, 2010 5:33 pm ET)
      9 1
      It seems the more time that elapses the more removed from the facts Republicans become. I bet more falsehoods have come out of the mouths of right wing pundits in the last year than actual truths.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by allan.masri1047 (February 11, 2010 5:36 pm ET)
      8 1
      This is one of the most serious cases of distortion by the right wing and their supporters. Global warming could result in the loss of trillions of dollars and millions of lives. Attacking scientific research for short-term profit (as do energy companies) or an electoral advantage is about as low on the scale of human consciousness as you can get. Having escaped the cold war by an eyelash, we are plunging into climate change without even a thought about what damage our miscalculations may cause.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Fryingham (February 11, 2010 9:01 pm ET)
        1 5
        Global warming, if occurring, is not caused by man. Period. Look at the recent pronouncements from NASA and the Goddard Center. Water vapor, NOT C02 causes warming.

        Furthermore, look at the studies that indicate warming, if it were occurring, would benefit mankind, not destroy it. MORE arable land. MORE drinking water. MORE vegetation.

        Do your own research - don't rely on the media and the disciples of Gore to educate you.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by essbird (February 13, 2010 11:36 am ET)
          3  
          What translation have you been reading? Fox? Is the real scientific question whether the warming is in significant part caused by human activity? Go ahead, go to your source at Goddard http://www.giss.nasa.gov/ and tell me the home page doesn't scream that the globe is warming and there are human causes. Or are you one of the 28% who believe in opposition to overwhelming evidence? Goddard Headlines:
          - 2009 Ends Warmest Decade on Record
          - Sea Ice Retreat and Arctic Pollution
          - Survival of Tibetan Glaciers: Along with greenhouse gases, black soot from upwind pollution sources threatens to eliminate glaciers from the Tibetan Plateau during the 21st century.
          - Can the Oceans Keep Pace with Industrial Emissions?
          - How do Global Soot Models Measure Up?
          - Aerosols Boost Warming Potential of Some Gases
          Shall I keep going? Who is and is not doing his own research?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by null1fy (February 12, 2010 10:11 am ET)
        3 12
        You think we're attacking science for short term profit, we think you're making it up so you can impose socialist cap and trade taxes.

        There's 2 sides to every story.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by JimmyCraghorn (February 12, 2010 1:30 pm ET)
          6 1
          Unfortunately the facts are against you on both sides of this story.

          1) Oil and other energy companies are trying to attack the science by funding bogus (i.e. not peer-reviewed) research.

          2) You need to willfully ignore the vast amount of evidence to the contrary to make believe your ridiculous claim.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by swift (February 12, 2010 2:11 pm ET)
          5 1
          Note: there's no science in any of your statements. It's all political rivalry. Which is what converstavies and Republicans do well, because it's the only level they exist in.

          The cap and trade ideas are not taxes. They are a way of making the real carbon costs external. They worked rather well under that socialist president, George H.W. Bush. Please wake up.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mrhebert74 (February 12, 2010 11:28 pm ET)
          5  
          There's 2 sides to every story. -unknowing1

          Your compelling argument is undermined by the simple truth that one side can be factual and the other imbecilic.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by fantagor (February 13, 2010 3:47 pm ET)
            3  
            Guess which one conservatives tend to side with? It rhymes with "gimbecilic".

            Randy
            Report Abuse
        • Author by essbird (February 13, 2010 11:40 am ET)
          2  
          I see what's in it for you - short term profits. What's in it for me if I help impose "socialist" cap and trade? And you think you couldn't profit from the cap and trade market? I'll tell you what's in it for me: A healthy world for my descendants, something you don't care about. You probably hate the EPA, too, and want to go back to rivers that burn.

          You're getting pwned by oil companies. They're very good at it.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 11, 2010 6:04 pm ET)
      3 12
      Would those e-mails be the ones that show so-called 'scientists' perverting the 'peer-review' process, lying about their findings, using cherry picked information, refusing to obey FOI laws? Using fraudulent 'facts' and suppressing evidence that contradicted their claims? Would those be the same guys who claimed the glaciers in the Himalayas will be gone by 2035? Are these the same guys who made the totally unwarranted claim that global warming would cause a 50% fall in African rainfall by 2020?
      Would those be the "scientists" behind e-mails MMFA is referencing?
      The whole Climate-change scam blew up in the faces of these scam artists posing as scientists. Citing the guys who are in on the scam as evidence that 'scientists' still think it's true is merely continuing in ignorant denial. (It's called begging the question.)
      It's over. The scam has failed. Better luck next time.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by whatIthink (February 11, 2010 6:35 pm ET)
        11 2
        Gee, let's see, the American Meteorological Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the Union of Concerned Scientists, between them have over 14 million members. Over 1700 scientists from the British Met Office, members from U.S. Scientists on Climate Change, NASA, NOAA and countless other academic institutions all have expressed their belief in and support for global warming and climate change.

        A bunch of talk show hosts, politicians, bloggers and conspiracy theorists have cherry picked a few paragraphs from 10 years worth of stolen emails to try and claim this is all a hox.

        Hmmmmm, who to believe, who to believe.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 11, 2010 8:59 pm ET)
          2 14
          10 years of self incrimination, deceit and denial of truth. Their credibility is gone. Nada, Zilch. Zero. Empty.
          AGW is consensus insanity.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Salamandastron (February 11, 2010 9:56 pm ET)
            8 2
            So, let's see. You really don't know much about it yourself, but you're happy to quote or paraphrase a bunch of other people who really don't know much about it either. That's pretty close, isn't it?

            All those folks who don't like Global Warming have had years and years to get billions from Big Oil and other sources, and years and years for skeptic scientists to develop an alternative scientific - that's s c i e n t i f i c - explanation of what's causing what we see, yet nobody has developed the science for that. Where is it? Where is the science that refutes the GW proponents? If you find some, please let us know.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Andrew30 (February 11, 2010 10:51 pm ET)
              2 3
              British Petroleum and Royal Dutch Shell have been funding the Climate Research Unit since 1974.

              We will now resume our previously scheduled programming.
              Glaciers melting because of CO2.
              Hurricanes increasing because of CO2.
              Flooding imminent because of CO2.
              Deforestation caused by CO2.
              Crop failures imminent because of CO2.
              Drought in Australia caused by CO2.
              Malaria increasing because of CO2.
              Lack of winter snow caused by CO2.
              Hot winters caused by CO2.
              Cold winters caused by CO2.
              Hot summers caused by CO2.
              Cold summers caused by CO2.
              CO2 bad.
              Warming bad.
              Tax is the only solution.
              Tax good, Warming bad.
              Etc.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by SLRTX (February 13, 2010 11:04 am ET)
                4  
                Andy -

                The facts about climate change are based on science, not a belief-system like denialism. How climate change is addressed, like through taxes as you mention, is a matter of policy - to be addressed by politicians. And arguing against the truth about climate change as defined in the peer-reviewed literature, is ideological.

                Climate science ≠ policy
                Climate science ≠ ideology

                But denialists keep mixing science and policy arguments, because they don't know the difference. Just like they don't have an idea of the difference between blog sites and peer-reviewed papers to reputable journals.

                And denialists don't know how to properly search the web for quality sites. It's like setting out to do research on climate science, but getting all the material from the comic book store.

                http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/TeachingLib/Guides/Internet/Evaluate.html

                Sites like "Wattsupwiththat" do not have quality information. They're echo chambers of denialists all repeating the same chants over and over and over. There are no skeptics there. Only denialists.

                Now, if you want a good site for skeptics, try this:
                http://www.skepticalscience.com/

                So be you skeptic, or denialist? ;-)
                Report Abuse
                • Author by SLRTX (February 13, 2010 11:06 am ET)
                  1  
                  Clarification -

                  Climate science not equal to policy
                  Climate science not equal to ideology

                  (Working on how to get symbols on these posts.)
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 12, 2010 1:28 pm ET)
              1 6
              If you were truly curious, you would know that the science behind AGW is just fiction.
              For instance, I read an example the other day of a randomly chosen paragraph out of the IPCC report. A sentence that claimed (with a great degree of certitude) that grain crops (rice, maize and wheat) in large parts of Asia were adversely effected by AGW had as its substantiation a report about tea production in Sri Lanka. Of the five citations, four do not support the report's contention (the reviewer was unable to locate the fifth one).
              http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/2/9/pick-a-paragraph.html
              Report Abuse
              • Author by whatIthink (February 12, 2010 3:45 pm ET)
                4 1
                That's about as nonsensical an argument as I've seen today. Thta's like saying by reading paragraph 3 on page 457 of A Tale of Two Cities and you know what the entire books is about.

                Tell you what, next time there's a debate about, oh I don't know, say Christianity, I'll just pick a random paragraph from the bible and claim I now the entire thing...oh, crap, crazy chistians do that anyways.

                Put this way, I can pick and choose random paragraphs from Martin Luther King, Jr's I Have A Dream speech and make him out to be a rampant racist. But, rightfully, people who have read or heard the ENTIRE speech would call me an uninformed idiot.

                Therefore, you are an uninformed idiot.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (February 11, 2010 10:18 pm ET)
            6 1
            So, answer a simple question, edrossinoelwein9669. Does smoking cigarettes cause cancer?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by null1fy (February 12, 2010 10:15 am ET)
              3 4
              I'll answer for him: Smoking does cause cancer.

              Now you answer me: Can non-smokers get cancer?

              I think you know where this is going.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 12, 2010 1:57 pm ET)
                1  
                I hope The_Cat comes back. I don't want to butt into his game, but I really want to see where you think it's going.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by The_Cat (February 12, 2010 2:35 pm ET)
                5 1
                Of course non smokers can get cancer, unknown1.

                Do you know the reason I asked the question I did? Because there is a lot of scientific evidence that shows that cigarettes and tobacco in general do not cause cancer, and that goes for second hand smoke as well. Do not let the fact that all this research was bought and paid for by big tobacco companies influence the credibility you give it, though, okay? Just know that if you smoke a couple of packs a day, and happen to get cancer, it wasn't the cigarettes. Scientists say so. Just because it is a tiny minority of scientists who work in this field, and just because they work for big tobacco, don't think for a minute it's not just as accurate as any other science.

                Same with the science that disproves climate change. It's a tiny handful of scientists working in this field, and they're paid for by big oil and coal, but that doesn't mean that when they claim mankind is not influencing the planet's climate that they are wrong. Right? And those who are not scientists, like everyone working at FOX Propaganda? Well, don't let their lack of scientific credentials bother you a bit. Multinational corporations need you to at least have doubt about global warming, if not to actively disbelieve it, and they do know what's best, and are only acting in your self interest.

                Also, and lastly, the word 'gullible' has been removed from the dictionary. Happened in 2004, I think. It just fell out of use, and they stopped including it.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by fantagor (February 13, 2010 3:54 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Isn't it funny how industry-paid scientists tend to unearth findings only beneficial to their corporate masters, and scientists without funding tied to a specific industry tend to unearth findings consistent with the damn data.

                  Randy
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Talisman (February 12, 2010 4:49 pm ET)
                3 1

                I do like the way the Global Warming Skeptics have used many of the same methods and people used by the tobacco industry to keep their products on the shelves.

                You take an extremely addictive subsance that even has adverse health effects on not only the addict but the people around him, and you continually allow it to be sold shows some creativity in clouding the issue.

                The same holds true for Global Warming. If there wasn't a potential for it to effect the profits of many companies, there would be no skeptics.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:43 am ET)
                2
              well "the_cat" certainly not in everyone, my mother will be 80 this year and she smoked since before I was born 57 years ago....
              Report Abuse
          • Author by internet soldier (February 12, 2010 9:12 am ET)
            7 2
            AGW is consensus insanity.


            Which begs the question; how exactly do you explain how such an overwhelming majority of scientists across so many countries could be so wrong in considering AGW a major threat? If I believed AGW was hooey, I would be seriously eager to know the answer to this question.....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 12, 2010 1:39 pm ET)
              1 6
              Follow the money. Eisenhower warned us about the Military-Industrial complex. This is comparable.
              Watch these nerds report something that contradicts AGW and they will be quick to say, "Of course, we in no way want to question the truth of AGW." That's because the peer-review and grant machines are controlled by people who will go so far as to break the law and destroy evidence to keep their 'consensus.' Blacklisting dissenters is part of the game.
              The AGW scam is just that, a scam.
              The only reason progressives are supportive of its proponents is because it looks like a way to increase government control over peoples lives. It has nothing to do with science.
              Sex is consensual. Science is demonstrable.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 12, 2010 2:13 pm ET)
                4 1
                Yeah, I'll bet those crazy scientists wish there was some existing deep pockets industry, that people were really dependent on, that wanted to deny GW.

                Makes sense that they would decide to completely build this hoax from the ground up, since there's no fossil fuels business in place on your planet.

                Seriously, that was one of the silliest arguments imaginable when it was first used years ago. It's not aging well.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:45 am ET)
                5
              jmille426471 - follow the money, 100s of millions of dollars in grants..... hmmm....
              Report Abuse
        • Author by RavenRog (February 12, 2010 8:17 am ET)
          1 9
          "Gee, let's see, the American Meteorological Society, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and the Union of Concerned Scientists, between them have over 14 million members. Over 1700 scientists from the British Met Office, members from U.S. Scientists on Climate Change, NASA, NOAA and countless other academic institutions all have expressed their belief in and support for global warming and climate change."

          What they really believe in is more funding and sustainable careers.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by kcboomer (February 12, 2010 10:41 am ET)
          1 4
          One thing about all these scientists that sign on to support GW is that not all these scientists conducted the research. They took the data given to them to make their assumptions. The problem arises when the data provided is not necessarily the "whole picture".
          When scientific data is "cherry picked" to support the researchers assertions, then those conducting the review, without conducting their own research, are left with limited solutions. Here rises the problem with the hockey stick. The tree ring data that was used to support the temperatures came from a select 12 trees out of 252 in the Yamal data set. When all the samples are included in the research, the results are vastly different. The science of dendochronology has it's own problems because trees are affected by other factors in the environment, not just C02, and it creates a lot of noise in the data selections.
          http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/29/yamal_scandal/
          Report Abuse
      • Author by The_Cat (February 11, 2010 6:36 pm ET)
        6 1
        No, edrossinoelwein9669, they wouldn't be. The e-mails you are referring to were actually brought to this world from the alternate-reality country of RushBeckistan. Complete fabrication. Surprised you fell for their foolishness, but hey, knowing is half the battle, right?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 11, 2010 8:56 pm ET)
          1 13
          Sorry, kitty, but the e-mails illustrated the non-science that is AGW. They were not the product of the radio commentators. They were from the keyboards of charlatans and scam artists posing as scientists. They showed how pervasive the perversion of the peer-review process has become, how willing these government employees were to ignore the law, how silly their attempts to shoe-horn data was, and how corrupt they had become.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (February 11, 2010 10:17 pm ET)
            8 2
            Based on what you claim they prove, it is demonstrable that they are not the product of reality based science, edrossinoelwein9669.


            The actual hacked e-mails you are spoofing here do not show any of the things you claim. Know how I know? You provide exactly zero examples. The two or three lines from the two or three e-mails that were trumpeted by deniers like you prove nothing of what you claim.

            Even IF there were no global warming, we spend $700 billion overseas for foreign oil, which is very bad for our economy. It leaves us dependent on unfriendly nations, which is bad for national security. Strip mining for coal destroys our own lands. Whole mountains have disappeared, odd as that seems. We also add pollution to our water and air to burn petroleum among other things. So, the benefits of acting as though global warming exists, even if it doesn't, are broad enough and worthwhile enough to pursue.

            If you have evidence of the corruption you claim exists, or the perversion of the peer-review process, then show it.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Salamandastron (February 11, 2010 10:38 pm ET)
            6 1
            Well, you're partly right and Kitty's partly wrong. Those emails are real -- or were real -- who knows what's been done to them -- but the hype and spin is coming from RushBeckistan.

            In the meantime, the science still stands. If it's been refuted, show me the science.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by The_Cat (February 12, 2010 10:11 am ET)
              6 1
              To be honest, Salamandastron, I was having a bit of fun. Of course there are actual e-mails hacked from CRU, and these are what edrossinoelwein9669 was referring to.

              However, based on what he claimed they proved, I maintained that the e-mails could not have come from this reality. Just pointing out that they weren't the evidence to upset GW that he thought they were, albeit in a somewhat circuitous and humorous fashion.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:47 am ET)
            5
          "the_cat", my are you a moonbat...
          Report Abuse
      • Author by roverflash (February 11, 2010 7:28 pm ET)
           
        Do you have any education in the field of environmental science, or do we have no reason at all to believe you?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (February 11, 2010 7:58 pm ET)
        7 2
        Denai

        "The whole Climate-change scam blew up in the faces of these scam artists posing as scientists."

        You wouldn't know a scientist if one kicked you in the rear.

        Here's a good expose on the whole affair.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/hacked-climate-science-emails

        Net:

        FOI rules may have been broken. Action will be taken, if needed.

        Some scientists may have acted unethically, or just out of spite, due to frustration dealing with denalists like you.

        This may have been an inside job. Heads may roll, but not the ones you think.

        The "hockey stick" is not broken (Sorry 'bout that.)

        This still does not change the science, a lot of it completely independent of the CRU, but still in agreement with all that data that the CRU had. (Again, sorry 'bout that.)

        Denialists are wacko cranks.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 11, 2010 8:47 pm ET)
          2 13
          You poor boys, playing with your hockey sticks - sex is consensual. Science is verifiable. AGW is horse s**t
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (February 11, 2010 10:20 pm ET)
            7 2
            Awww. Based just on your say-so, huh? Prove it.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by poproxx77 (February 11, 2010 11:01 pm ET)
              1 5
              What I'd like to know is if they CRU doesn't have anything to hide, why are they dancing around the freedom of information action act. Why did so many documents disappear when asked for during the recent investigation? I keep tax information from 10 years back.

              Anyway makes me think somethings up.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Salamandastron (February 11, 2010 10:43 pm ET)
            7 1
            GW is fact; the only real controversy about AGW is how and how much. Unless, of course, someone's come up with some science to refute it. So, where's the science?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 12, 2010 4:57 am ET)
              4 3
              I always find it cute when there's an item here about the GW Denial Cult propaganda being de-bunked, and the cult members show up to assert their faith.

              There's really no need to argue. They volunteer to beat themselves.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 11:42 am ET)
                4 4
                Don -

                Here's a group of the denialist cultists beating themselves.

                [http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/upload/2007/03/ashura9.jpg]

                Report Abuse
                • Author by kcboomer (February 12, 2010 12:47 pm ET)
                    2
                  Is that a picture of a party you attended? Are you in the picture or taking the picture?
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 12, 2010 1:31 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Yeah, that's how they do it, slrtx. Notice below, they consider scientists mystical hippies.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:49 am ET)
                    3
                  Looks like a group of moonbat left-wing nutter liberals to me... maybe getting ready to be tea-BAGGED
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by null1fy (February 12, 2010 1:25 pm ET)
                1 5
                Don-

                Here's a group of global warming cultists doing their research:
                [http://donthavekids.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/hippies.jpg]
                Report Abuse
                • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 8:14 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  unknown1 --

                  Well at least us "cultists" get the babes!

                  You denialists should really try to get out of your parents basement & get in touch with nature - and the opposite sex. (Or same sex, whichever.)
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by RavenRog (February 12, 2010 8:21 am ET)
              2 7
              Here's some science that of course you will ignore...

              Click here
              Report Abuse
              • Author by davemccarthymusic9410 (February 12, 2010 11:00 am ET)
                5 3
                that "science", were one to dig even slightly below the superficial, would be found to have Exxon/Mobil's fingerprints all over it. The denialist movement is driven by the understandably self-interested oil producing powers that be. Period.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by kcboomer (February 12, 2010 12:21 pm ET)
                  1 4
                  Speaking of digging, how about the fact the the BBC has TRILLIONS of euros invested in supporting the global warming initiatives (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/156703/-8bn-BBC-eco-bias-), or that GE (owners of NBC/MSNBC) stands to gains BILLIONS from green job initiatives.
                  Isn't it nice the way their respective media networks proudly harp global warming, while denouncing anyone with dissenting opinions? Have you ever heard the addage "Money talks"?
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 11:27 am ET)
                6 2
                Raven -

                Sooooooo.....

                What peer-reviewed journal will this appear in??????

                Your link is a BLOG site, not a journal.

                Learn the difference.

                And spare the predictable response. We already know the crank deinalist rants about how peer-review is all political, a conspiracy, a good-ol-boys club, etc. Try to think of something new this time. You denialists are getting boring.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by rrrrigghhttt (February 12, 2010 10:24 pm ET)
                  1 4
                  and you cultists are so entertaining and original in your arguments. you ignore anything that doesn't fit your view of the world and then spout the same old ignorant responses over and over and over and over and over again.

                  how about trying to answer one simple question. why were they trying to ignore and refuse FOI requests? why? what possible reason could they have?

                  please enlighten us oh wise one.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 11:05 pm ET)
                    3 1
                    wwwwrrrrrooooonnngggg -

                    All will be revealed soon.

                    I'm assuming you can read, since you are typing.

                    So, start with this multi-part expose.

                    It's a pretty exhaustive review of this whole CRU/FOI issue - enough to point fingers in both directions.

                    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/hacked-climate-science-emails

                    But when the final review is done, you won't accept the findings anyway. Denialists refuse to accept anything beyond their narrow-minded view of reality. They are a complete, total waste of time. That's why their so different from skeptics. And all you denialists wonder why I "troll" you so much! Can't take it, huh?

                    BTW - Thanks for calling me "wise". ;-)
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by rrrrigghhttt (February 13, 2010 11:37 am ET)
                      1 1
                      first of all, I think you are a complete idiot so yes I can take anything you got. second, why can't YOU answer the question, why were they trying to avoid FOI requests?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by rrrrigghhttt (February 14, 2010 11:57 am ET)
                         
                      why no answer to a simple question?
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:54 am ET)
                  1 5
                  Don't have to think of anything new, we're not left-wing nuts... the truth is what it is, peer-review has been hijacked... duh!!! get a life, read something...
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 12, 2010 12:37 pm ET)
                6  
                Excuse me for asking, but how does a doctorate in Engineering qualify one as an expert on Climate?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by proudconservative (February 12, 2010 2:45 pm ET)
                  1 4
                  rumptydumpty,

                  At least an engineer probably could tell if the Himalayas were shrinking or not....

                  But maybe this will help, and yes an economics guy can look at numbers and see what happens when you include all the data Mann somehow ..... misplaced?

                  Speaking truth to/about progressives with a shout out to all the CO2 for delivering snow to all the lower 48 (not 55) states, a once in a generation phenomenon!
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 8:20 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  rumpleteasermom --

                  A denialist would take the word of anyone, as long as they supported their self-delusional opinion. See image below for an example of a denialist "expert".

                  Here's a good site that describes these crank experts:
                  http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/05/crank_howto.php


                  [http://www.classicalvalues.com/The_Legendary___Hate_Man__.JPG]
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by proudconservative (February 12, 2010 8:44 pm ET)
                    1 6
                    LSMFT

                    Your link is a BLOG site, not a journal.

                    Learn the difference.


                    So now you are reduced to using a BLOG to make a point?

                    Here's a good site that describes these crank experts:
                    http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/05/crank_howto.php


                    How 'scientific' of you!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 10:54 pm ET)
                      5  
                      proudcon -

                      In the denialist small-minded, narrow-viewed, limited way of thinking somehow equate a blog about denialism with science?

                      Ok. Now it's certain that denalists don't know the difference between blogs and science.

                      How pseudo-scientific of you!
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 13, 2010 12:05 am ET)
                        2  
                        That was great! Thanks for sharing it. It's quite obvious that someone missed the point though, which just made it even funner.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:58 am ET)
                      3
                    OMG another photo of a left-wing nutter...
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 13, 2010 1:04 am ET)
                    2  
                    That Crank site is pretty funny, slrtx, and dead-on, from the cries of Ad Hominem when being called an idiot, to the conspiracy theories, to the fat bloated scientists living off their big grants.

                    My LOL moment was the repeated "compare yourself to Galileo " advice, as one of the most hysterical Denial Cultists here has worked it into his screen name. A pre-emptive persecution complex.
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 12:57 am ET)
                    3
                  Railroad engineering no less - good question? ask Pachauri??
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 13, 2010 10:59 am ET)
                    1  
                    Pachauri isn't speaking against the scientific consensus outside of his own specialty. Leonard Weinstein isn't organizing a vast group of CLIMATOLOGISTS, as Pachauri is doing. Pachauri is not contradicting the established climate science.

                    So, while they are both engineers mucking about with climate, they are not doing the same kind of things.

                    Oh, and BTW, check your facts - not railroad engineering - Industrial Engineering and Economics.
                    Report Abuse
    • Author by NIGEL.UK (February 11, 2010 7:01 pm ET)
      1 3
      WHY IS IT SO COLD THIS WINTER WHEN ALL THE COMPUTER MODELS SHOW A RISE IN TEMPERATURE SHOULD BE OCCURRING ?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Johaely (February 13, 2010 6:51 pm ET)
           
        Because its cold in winter. The earth may heat, but it'll always rotate.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (February 13, 2010 8:01 pm ET)
        1  
        Warmest January on record just happened. So what are you talking about, cold this winter? It's only WINTER in the northern hemisphere, you doofus.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Fryingham (February 11, 2010 8:58 pm ET)
      1 4
      Baloney. The e-mails have been decried by warmers but have NOT been de-bunked - this is wishful thinking. The AGW scam is unraveling and your feeble attempts to deflect are amusing.

      Many of the "experts" referred to in the above snippets are warmers themselves - hardly likely that people who have vested their reputation and credibility in man-made global warming will back away after all of their bluster.

      Cries by warmers that the science is "settled" is anathema to science itself. Science is NEVER "settled" and warmers that decry skeptics are misguided or wrong do a great disservice to science.

      In the 1970's we were told by the fear-mongers that we were headed for another ice age. Today it is global warming that the hucksters are pushing.

      Believe what you will. However, history will show warmers to be gullible and terribly misinformed.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Clear (February 12, 2010 12:49 am ET)
      4  
      Weather is not climate. Repeat after me.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 1:01 am ET)
          4
        That's what you say now, but when it's a little warm all you do is point to "global warming". As a matter of fact that's what you do when it's a little cold....
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Johaely (February 13, 2010 6:53 pm ET)
             
          Actually no. A really ignorant person would say that neing hot outside is proof of Change. And even using that as proof will still defeat your assumptions that Change is not thruth because we've had a really warm winter.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (February 13, 2010 8:03 pm ET)
             
          No, that's NOT what we do, or what people who know what they're talking about do, anyway.

          No INDIVIDUAL weather event can be directly tied to global warming. A lot of the weird weather extremes we're having easily COULD be tied to global warming, but we don't know if ANY specific ones are or not.

          That's what a reasonable person says.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by RavenRog (February 12, 2010 8:15 am ET)
      3 7
      No, those e-mails were NOT debunked. Offering up a quote from factcheck.org ("there's still plenty of evidence that the earth is getting warmer and that humans are largely responsible.") doesn't debunk jack squat.

      Try again, MMFA.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (February 12, 2010 10:02 am ET)
        7 3
        They were debunked. Adding in the real temps was about making the numbers from the estimates more accurate, not an attempt to wipe out information. And that university never had exclusive control of the data.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by geologist (February 12, 2010 10:12 am ET)
          2 4
          No, it was an attempt to hide recent tree-ring chronologies which showed a cooling, rather than warming. They were perfectly happy to use tree-ring data when it supported their hypothesis, but they tried to hide it when it did not. Instead, they substituted surface temperature measurements that had been highly "adjusted," but not in the downward direction you would expect to account for the Urban Heat Island effect. Nope, later surface temps were adjusted upward relative to older surface temps.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (February 13, 2010 8:05 pm ET)
               
            The tree ring data showed cooling WHERE NO COOLING HAD HAPPENED.

            The tree ring data didn't match up with KNOWN FACTS.

            Before that, it DID MATCH UP WITH KNOWN FACTS.

            And your nonsense about weather station temp adjustments is equally bogus.

            You guys are freakin' idiots!
            Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 11:30 am ET)
          6 1
          wook -

          Perhaps you missed my post above. I'll repost here just for you. Ain't I a nice guy, or what?

          Here's a good expose on the whole affair.

          http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/hacked-climate-science-emails

          Net:

          FOI rules may have been broken. Action will be taken, if needed.

          Some scientists may have acted unethically, or just out of spite, due to frustration dealing with denalists.

          This may have been an inside job. Heads may roll, but not the ones you think.

          The "hockey stick" is not broken (Sorry 'bout that.)

          This still does not change the science, a lot of it completely independent of the CRU, but still in agreement with all that data that the CRU had. (Again, sorry 'bout that.)
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 12, 2010 1:34 pm ET)
          2  
          The emails weren't debunked, claims about them were. Just to be clear on what you (wookie) and RavinTrog are arguing about.

          I know that you know, wookie, but wanted to keep ravin from getting more confused.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by geologist (February 12, 2010 8:37 am ET)
      1 5
      It constantly amazes me that AGW proponents continue to shout "warming is real" when that's not the issue at all. The question is "What part of it is man-made?" That's where the science fails. Other than computer models that make some very unusual assumptions about "forcing," there is nothing that carves out CO2 as a significant factor. Without that forcing, CO2 has virtually no effect at all. Conversely, if you look at the geologic record, CO2 is completely uncorrelated with global temperature. In a few cases, CO2 increases 800 - 1000 years after the temperature rises. That may be "correlation," but it's not causality.

      And the foolinh notion that the "hockey stick is dead" is simply not true. Both reviews (Wegman and NAS) of that work found that the mathematics and procedures were useless. Oddly, the NAS concluded that Mann came to the right conclusion but his paper did not support that conclusion! How's that for science?

      Rave on if you like, but this charade has gone on too long.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by BreezyBelle (February 12, 2010 9:58 am ET)
      3 1
      Now why on earth would Repulicans want to let a little thing like facts get in the way of the broader agenda?? Pffft. Paying attention to overwhelming scientific evidence is no fun at all. And thinking for oneself is highly over-rated.

      With the steady stream of Republicans running for the edge of the cliff, I often wonder who the first lemming was...
      Report Abuse
    • Author by cons-lie.com (February 12, 2010 1:22 pm ET)
      4 1
      While any claims that GW policy advocats have some mysterious plan by which to take over the world through "green" legislation are, at best, vague and paranoid dellusions, there are substantial, concrete and poorly disguised financial motives behind the denial industry. The denial all comes from funding by polluters who stand to lose the farm if the world actually does the right thing. It is the mindless sheep that follow the conservative lie machine that are the only ones who truly believe there is no such thing as man-made climate change.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by poproxx77 (February 12, 2010 5:14 pm ET)
        1 1
        I'd like to hear a plausible solution to changing the CO2 composition of the atmosphere. If progressives are so sure they are right, and the Earth is on a path to biblical disaster, then they best be coming up with a workable solution fast.

        As i see it there are requirements for a fix, if they don't fit these 4 requirements its doomed to failure. (Well i do have a "final solution", maybe some would consider, I'll tell you at the end."

        1- China, India, and other developing nations have to be allowed the same standard of living we enjoy in the west.

        2- The west has to be able to continue living at the same standard of living we currently enjoy.

        3- It will have to be a global initiative. (It is global warming you know.)

        4- It has to be financially plausible. If it costs too much we'd have to rely on good will......maybe......but i wouldn't count on it.

        Currently there is not a plan out there that will reduce carbon emissions or current CO2 levels in the atmosphere the will change the current trend. There isn't enough money and there isn't enough good will.

        As i see it, there is only one solution left. :) The final solution.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 13, 2010 1:10 am ET)
        2  
        ...there are substantial, concrete and poorly disguised financial motives behind the denial industry.


        That's what I love about tinfoil hat conspiracy nuts in general, and GW deniers specifically. They always go with the most convoluted, illogical and complex answer to things that are very obvious and simple.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (February 12, 2010 2:31 pm ET)
      1 4
      Maybe saying "the science is settled" is about as accurate as saying "the investigation into the science being settled,is settled".

      Let's see....here's one

      And another update on the settled science..

      So I guess you believers are certain of the science and would wager disappearing of the Himalaya's on it?

      Speaking truth to/about progressives with a shout out senator rockefeller who actually called, a fellow member of the democrat party, obama as liar regarding clean energy policy in hearings. (Watch out senator that they dont' try to deal with a west virginian the "Chicagah way")
      Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 13, 2010 11:06 am ET)
        1 1
        Did you even read the second article you posted?

        His replacement, Professor Peter Liss, has however, predicted Prof Jones will be "vindicated" by the science and get his job back. "I think there is no question that the global temperature record produced by the Climatic Research Unit is absolutely correct and of course it is vindicated by two other institutions in the United States, who have looked at the data and processed it in their ways," he said.


        Questions have also been raised about the studies of one of Prof Jones' research partners Wei-Chyung Wang, from the University of Albany in New York.

        The prominent Chinese-American scientist's research was cleared of any wrong doing after he was investigated by his university for misconduct.

        In a statement to The Daily Telegraph a spokesman for the University said: "The University concluded in June 2008 that there was no evidence whatsoever that Professor Wei-Chyung Wang committed data fabrication or any research misconduct with respect to those allegations.


        I love it when you provide the evidence for me. Good job, keep it up.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by proudconservative (February 13, 2010 9:05 pm ET)
             
          rumptydumpty,

          The article was intended to show that even the university hadn't concluded its review of Jones' conduct.

          And rather than have the university do its own investigation, how about a neutral party. At least in Pennsylvania the legislature is looking into the necessity for an investigation of mann's work at penn state.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by poproxx77 (February 12, 2010 4:39 pm ET)
      1 6
      I love the finality in MMFA's statement; "DEBUNKED."

      Its a lot like watching your home team suffering a horrible loss. Progressives are the die-hard fans not willing to leave the game even though they know a loss is inevitable.



      Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (February 12, 2010 11:10 pm ET)
        4 2
        poproxx77 --

        "Progressives are the die-hard fans not willing to leave the game even though they know a loss is inevitable."

        There they go again. Confusing ideology with science.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 1:10 am ET)
      2 5
      You know, the best way for the AGW fear mongers to PROVE they actually believe this S**T is to get off the grid, 100% off the grid. Instead algore, pat kennedy, obama, pelosi all jump in their HUGE carbon producing jets and tour the world..... So lets see some leadership, set the example... moonbat left-wing nutters.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ABBA|Proudly teaBAGGING Liberals (February 13, 2010 1:30 am ET)
        2 6
        I'll bet that if all the left-wing nutter liberals WOULD get off the grid the carbon problem would be solved... hmmmm...
        Report Abuse
    • Author by essbird (February 13, 2010 11:56 am ET)
      2 2
      Questions for global warming deniers:
      - If GW proponents are right and we do nothing, what will happen to our planet and the future of human life?
      - If GW proponents are wrong and we do something, what will happen?

      Apply the science of risk analysis. If there is any likelihood that something will happen (I might die in a car wreck; my house might get hit by a hurricane) is it necessary to prove that it will happen before I should do something to protect myself? And what should I do? Not drive? Not live in a house? No, but there are things I can do.

      Now apply the science of human behavior, namely greed. If all my wealth depends on a particular market, and that market is at risk, what will my greedy self do? I'm going to spend a reasonable part of my wealth to convince fearful schmos that someone's out to get them. It works.

      Read Ibsen's Enemy of the People. It's all in there.
      "The town has recently invested a large amount of public and private money towards the development of baths, a project led by Dr. Stockmann and his brother, the Mayor. The town is expecting a surge in tourism and prosperity from the new baths, said to be of great medicinal value, and as such, the baths are a source of great local pride. However, just as the baths are proving successful, Dr. Stockmann discovers that waste products from the town's tannery are contaminating the waters, causing serious illness amongst the tourists." What happens next, I wonder? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Enemy_of_the_People
      Report Abuse
      • Author by fantagor (February 13, 2010 4:12 pm ET)
        3  
        The worst possible risk of doing something if AGW DOES NOT exist is a global depression, assuming we pump an inordinate amount of resources toward a false problem, and that such expenditures promise no other positive effects. This extreme is highly suspect, but to be fair, a possibility.

        The worst possible risk of doing nothing if AGW DOES exist is a global depression, famine, disease, and war. No part of this data set is extreme or improbable. AGW threatens to destroy potable water supplies which will lead to famine, disease and mass migrations in overpopulated countries such as India and China, which will lead to resource wars and eventually a global depression.

        Based on this analysis, it makes ZERO sense to do nothing, as the cost of doing nothing far exceeds the cost of doing something about AGW.

        Randy
        Report Abuse
    • Author by bennoba (February 14, 2010 4:01 am ET)
         
      Professor Phil Jones from the East Anglia CRU conceded the possibility that the world was warmer in medieval times than now – suggesting global warming may not be a man-made phenomenon.

      And he said that for the past 15 years there has been no ‘statistically significant’ warming.

      The truth - it burns!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by John Paradox (February 14, 2010 11:24 am ET)
         
      Interesting recent YouTube Post: 8. Climate Change -- Has the Earth been cooling?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (February 14, 2010 4:47 pm ET)
      1  
      Phil Jones has admitted that AGW is a myth (to use MMFA hermeneutics)!
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250872/Climategate-U-turn-Astonishment-scientist-centre-global-warming-email-row-admits-data-organised.html#ixzz0fWrHldg3
      Report Abuse

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