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Wash. Post still publishing George Will's climate misinformation

February 22, 2010 2:14 pm ET — 35 Comments

In his Washington Post column, George Will -- who has been widely criticized for making inaccurate statements about climate change -- distorted comments made by climate scientist Phil Jones in order to suggest that human-caused warming is not occurring. In fact, Jones said that he is "100% confident that the climate has warmed" and added that "there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity."

Will distorted Jones' comments about warming and statistical significance

From Will's February 21 Washington Post column:

Global warming skeptics, too, have erred. They have said there has been no statistically significant warming for 10 years. Phil Jones, former director of Britain's Climatic Research Unit, source of the leaked documents, admits it has been 15 years. Small wonder that support for radical remedial action, sacrificing wealth and freedom to combat warming, is melting faster than the Himalayan glaciers that an IPCC report asserted, without serious scientific support, could disappear by 2035.

Jones echoed scientific consensus in pointing to long-term warming trend

RealClimate.org: Media are distorting Jones comments about statistically significant warming. In a February 15 post, RealClimate.org's staff, which is comprised of several working climate scientists, stated that a Daily Mail article had distorted Jones' comments when it claimed Jones "admits...[t]here has been no global warming since 1995.″ RealClimate.org stated that "[w]hat Jones actually said is that, while the globe has nominally warmed since 1995, it is difficult to establish the statistical significance of that warming given the short nature of the time interval (1995-present) involved." From the post:

Yesterday, the Daily Mail of the UK published a predictably inaccurate article entitled "Climategate U-turn as scientist at centre of row admits: There has been no global warming since 1995″.

The title itself is a distortion of what Jones actually said in an interview with the BBC. What Jones actually said is that, while the globe has nominally warmed since 1995, it is difficult to establish the statistical significance of that warming given the short nature of the time interval (1995-present) involved. The warming trend consequently doesn't quite achieve statistical significance. But it is extremely difficult to establish a statistically significant trend over a time interval as short as 15 years-a point we have made countless times at RealClimate. It is also worth noting that the CRU record indicates slightly less warming than other global temperature estimates such as the GISS record.

[...]

Update 2/16/10. Phil Jones has confirmed to us that our interpretations of his comments in the BBC interview are indeed the correct ones, and that he agrees with the statements in our piece above.

Jones: "Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms" is "less likely for shorter periods" but "much more likely for longer periods." Indeed, contrary to Will's suggestion that Jones' comments undermine the scientific consensus that humans are warming the planet or somehow indicate that warming has stopped, Jones said that 15 years was generally too short a time period to achieve statistically significant results, and that statistical significance is "much more likely for longer periods." When asked in the BBC interview, "Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming," Jones stated:

Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.

Jones: "I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed." Later in the same interview, Jones pointed to longer-term, multi-decade warming. Asked, "How confident are you that warming has taken place and that humans are mainly responsible," Jones stated:

I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 -- there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.

Met Office: Climate shows "continued variability, but an underlying trend of warming in the previously steady long-term averages." The U.K. Met Office states: "In 1998 the world experienced the warmest year since records began. In the decade since, however, this high point has not been surpassed. Some have seized on this as evidence that global warming has stopped, or even that we have entered a period of 'global cooling'. This is far from the truth and climate scientists have, in fact, recognised that a temporary slowdown in warming is possible even under increasing levels of greenhouse gas emissions." [Met Office, accessed 9/22/09] The Met Office further notes:

After three decades of warming caused by man-made greenhouse gas emissions, why would there suddenly be a period of relative temperature stability -- despite more greenhouse gases being emitted than ever before? This is because of what is known as internal climate variability. In the same way that our weather can be warm and sunny one day, cool and wet the next, so our climate naturally varies from year to year, and decade to decade.

Before the twentieth century, when man-made greenhouse gas emissions really took off, there was an underlying stability to global climate. The temperature varied from year to year, or decade to decade, but stayed within a certain range and averaged out to an approximately steady level.

In the twentieth century we have had continued variability, but an underlying trend of warming in the previously steady long-term averages. This is what we observed in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s. Now we have seen a decade of little change in the average global temperature -- but that doesn't mean climate change has stopped, it's just another part of natural variability.

2000-2009 was warmest decade on record. NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, the National Climatic Data Center of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the U.K. Met Office, and the World Meteorological Organisation have all stated that 2000-2009 was the warmest decade on record for the globe.

From the Met Office:

avtempchart

Will also misrepresented Jones' statements on Medieval Warm Period

From Will's column:

Jones also says that if during what is called the Medieval Warm Period (circa 800-1300) global temperatures may have been warmer than today's, that would change the debate. Indeed it would. It would complicate the task of indicting contemporary civilization for today's supposedly unprecedented temperatures.

Jones said current warming cannot be explained by solar and volcanic forcing. Contrary to Will's suggestion that Jones' statements on the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) undermine man-made global warming, Jones stated that warming after the 1950s is likely human-caused because "we can't explain the warming from the 1950s by solar and volcanic forcing." From the Q&A:

D - Do you agree that natural influences could have contributed significantly to the global warming observed from 1975-1998, and, if so, please could you specify each natural influence and express its radiative forcing over the period in Watts per square metre.

This area is slightly outside my area of expertise. When considering changes over this period we need to consider all possible factors (so human and natural influences as well as natural internal variability of the climate system). Natural influences (from volcanoes and the Sun) over this period could have contributed to the change over this period. Volcanic influences from the two large eruptions (El Chichon in 1982 and Pinatubo in 1991) would exert a negative influence. Solar influence was about flat over this period. Combining only these two natural influences, therefore, we might have expected some cooling over this period.

[...]

G - There is a debate over whether the Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was global or not. If it were to be conclusively shown that it was a global phenomenon, would you accept that this would undermine the premise that mean surface atmospheric temperatures during the latter part of the 20th Century were unprecedented?

There is much debate over whether the Medieval Warm Period was global in extent or not. The MWP is most clearly expressed in parts of North America, the North Atlantic and Europe and parts of Asia. For it to be global in extent the MWP would need to be seen clearly in more records from the tropical regions and the Southern Hemisphere. There are very few palaeoclimatic records for these latter two regions.

Of course, if the MWP was shown to be global in extent and as warm or warmer than today (based on an equivalent coverage over the NH and SH) then obviously the late-20th century warmth would not be unprecedented. On the other hand, if the MWP was global, but was less warm that today, then current warmth would be unprecedented.

We know from the instrumental temperature record that the two hemispheres do not always follow one another. We cannot, therefore, make the assumption that temperatures in the global average will be similar to those in the northern hemisphere.

H - If you agree that there were similar periods of warming since 1850 to the current period, and that the MWP is under debate, what factors convince you that recent warming has been largely man-made?

The fact that we can't explain the warming from the 1950s by solar and volcanic forcing - see my answer to your question D.

I - Would it be reasonable looking at the same scientific evidence to take the view that recent warming is not predominantly manmade?

No - see again my answer to D.

Will is routinely criticized for distorting climate data

Will criticized for "misrepresentation of the data" after distorting World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) data about global temperatures. Will wrote in an April 2, 2009, column that "[r]educing carbon emissions supposedly will reverse warming, which is allegedly occurring even though, according to statistics published by the World Meteorological Organization, there has not been a warmer year on record than 1998." Will presented the WMO data as evidence that global warming may not be occurring despite the fact that WMO Secretary-General Michel Jarraud criticized him for similarly writing in a February 15, 2009, column that according to the organization, "[T]here has been no recorded global warming for more than a decade." Jarraud called Will's February 15 assertion "a misrepresentation of the data and of scientific knowledge."

Will distorted Arctic Climate Research Center (ACRC) about sea ice. Previously, Will twice misused sea ice data to falsely suggest that the data undermine the overwhelming evidence that humans are causing global warming. In a February 27, 2009, column, Will falsely claimed that in his February 15 column, he "accurately reported" on the contents of an ACRC document. In fact, the document he cited rebutted the very argument he was making: the ACRC document that Will relied on actually stated that the sea ice data are consistent with the outcomes projected by climate-change models. In the words of TPM Muckraker's Zachary Roth, Will's new column "amounts to a stubborn defense of the amazing global warming denialist column he published earlier this month, that was ripped apart by just about everyone and their mother." On April 6, 2009, NASA and the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) released new data on Arctic sea ice levels that further discredited Will's statements.

Will columns criticized by Post colleagues. Will's global warming columns have also been criticized by Washington Post editorial board member and cartoonist Tom Toles, Post weather columnist Andrew Freedman, and Post ombudsman Andrew Alexander. His fellow editorial columnist Eugene Robinson also said that Will "cross[ed] the line" in spreading global warming misinformation.

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    • Author by shaggles (February 22, 2010 2:22 pm ET)
      1  
      Of course they are. It's the Washington Post.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (February 22, 2010 3:45 pm ET)
      4 5
      http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2010/02/19/how-al-gore-wrecked-planet-earth/

      http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/General_News/2010-02-10/8836/Croat_scientist_warns_ice_age_could_start_in_five_years


      This proves that "global warming" is a complege hoax.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by raddave43 (February 22, 2010 5:59 pm ET)
        2 1
        that proves global warming is a "complege" hoax, how? A physicist from Croatia says there is going to be a ice age in five years, offers no evidence to back up his claims or refute man made global warming. And you think this proves anything? And you say GW believers will blindly follow anything a scientiest says.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Tbone Slickens (February 22, 2010 6:02 pm ET)
          2 3
          Warmers unite! Sorry, but the hits keep on coming.

          How many false reports and faulty data stories are we up to now?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (February 22, 2010 6:35 pm ET)
            2 2
            slick -

            You're confusing the facts proving ACC, and the effects of ACC on sea levels.

            But that's typical for denialists.

            They also think ideology is a science, and Al Gore is a scientist.

            So, what is it now? It's not warming? It's cooling? It's warming, but by natural means?

            Can't the denialists ever take a position, other than just denying?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (February 24, 2010 2:34 pm ET)
                 
              Thip, thip, thip, thip,......

              That's the sound of slick's helicopter taking off without answering my simple questions.

              Oh well, he'll be back. I'll just have to ask him again, and again, and again......
              Report Abuse
    • Author by Tommy (February 22, 2010 4:05 pm ET)
      4 6
      Oh God. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. MMA doesn't seem to like the truth. You know those evil statistics George is spouting is right from the horse's mouth. And it came from the right wing publication BBC last week.


      MAN MADE Global Warming is BS.


      Now I will sit here and laugh at the 100 far left liberal comments that say I'm an idiot despite the months and months of information coming out to prove otherwise.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 22, 2010 4:27 pm ET)
        5 2
        I said it before and I'll say it again - this whole episode surrounding the BBC News interview with Phil ones illustrates perfectly why scientists don't like talking to the general public. They don't know how to listen to anything that isn't distilled down to a black and white sound bite.

        Phil did NOT say the MWP was warmer than today.
        Phil did NOT say there has been no warming for the last 15 years.
        Phil DID say statistical significance is harder to achieve the shorter the period of time is.
        Phil DID say he is 100% certain anthropogenic global warming exists.

        Honestly, I live with one physicist who has thrown his hands up and said the hell with you people, if you are so ignorant and unwilling to listen you deserve all of what is coming. Frankly, I'm starting to agree.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Tommy (February 22, 2010 4:33 pm ET)
          2 4
          Did you actually read the BBC piece?


          Also, you're making a lot of assumptions regarding my background rumpleteasermon.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (February 22, 2010 6:39 pm ET)
            3 2
            Tommy --

            I did. Did YOU?

            http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8511670.stm

            Nothing in there that is inconsistent with the consensus about ACC.

            Besides, this is an interview with one guy.

            Like this interview changes anything. You wish.

            Here're some questions I've been asking you denialists. Can't seem to get an answer. Perhaps you can answer this?

            So, what is it now? It's not warming? It's cooling? It's warming, but by natural means?

            Can't the denialists ever take a position, other than just denying?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 22, 2010 7:10 pm ET)
            2 1
            Yes, I actually read the BBC piece. I also read http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511701.stm.

            I also know what the word 'if' means. I know what 'statistical significance' means and I understand why it's harder to achieve in short time periods. In addition, I know the definition of 'outlier' as it applies to statistics, (and apparently Will doesn't.)

            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (February 22, 2010 8:18 pm ET)
              4 2
              rumpleteasermom --

              Thanks for the link.

              Your link and the whole CRU email affair has surely proven one thing that has been known since science has been around - that individual scientists are human, and are fallible.

              Which is why the peer review process is so important. The collective process weed out the crap that can't be backed up with sound data ain't perfect, but it scoots the process along in the right direction.

              Now, about that process the denialists use.... Which would be....? ;-)
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 23, 2010 1:04 pm ET)
                3  
                Now, about that process the denialists use.... Which would be....? ;-)


                As far as I can tell, it's skimming over a WaPo article, becoming completely confused, and posting here that Global Warming is proven a hoax because of their confusion.

                Oh yeah, and their research usually includes some "LOL"s and a few exclamation points, as all good science does.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mary59 (February 23, 2010 1:40 pm ET)
                  1  
                  After doing a thorough case study, with charts and graphs, my conclusion:
                  Don Hussein, love your new look!!!! LOL LOL LOL
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by Orkneygal (February 22, 2010 4:08 pm ET)
      3 3
      Unequivocal scientific evidence that surface temperatures were higher while CO2 levels were lower during the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) is ignored by the warmists for obvious reasons.

      This inconvenient truth proves their claims that industrial scale human activity is causing global warming is a hoax.

      Paleoclimatic analysis of past CO2 levels shows that rising CO2 levels are the RESULT of global warming, not the cause of it, with lag times as long as 800 years.

      Was there a Medieval Warm Period? YES, according to data published by 805 individual scientists from 478 separate research institutions in 43 different countries.

      Go to the link below and decide for yourself. Don’t let the MPW deniers destroy your grandchildren’s future with their massive plan to tax everything. Read the proof of their hoax at the link below.

      http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/mwpp.php

      In his interview, Dr. Jones discussed data for four recent warming intervals beginning in 1860. His comments include-

      ”the warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other” that includes the most recent warming period being in 1975.

      Since the atmospheric CO2 levels WERE different for the 4 periods, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no correlation between CO2 levels and surface temperature increases.

      That inconvenient truth for the warmists is confirmed by paleoclimatic analysis.

      So, the conclusion from Dr. Jones interview is that the earth may be warming, but it is not caused by increasing CO2 and therefore not caused by human activity.

      Here’s the link to the interview. Go there and decide for yourself how to interpret his remarks. Don’t rely on warmists to interpret the truth for you.

      http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm
      Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 22, 2010 7:43 pm ET)
        3 2

        So, the conclusion from Dr. Jones interview is that the earth may be warming, but it is not caused by increasing CO2 and therefore not caused by human activity.


        I believe I see a MAJOR logical fallacy in your argument. And that's on top of the factual error you started with.

        Factual error - Dr. Jones did not mention CO2 anywhere in that article, so I don't see where you came to the conclusion that he said it wasn't CO2. In fact, while he agreed 100% with the idea that warming is happening and that there is evidence that humans are increasing the rise, what he did NOT discuss at all, was the mechanism by which humans were having this effect on the planet. The emphasis on CO2, and CO2 only, is NOT coming from the scientists.

        Which brings me to your logical fallacy, Analogy -


          Bill has a hole in his chest . . . . The earth is warming.
          Bob did not shoot Bill,. . . . . . . The cause is not more CO2,
          therefore Bob did not kill Bill. . . therefore it is not from us.


        See the fallacy, just because you rule out one mechanism (which no reputable scientist has BTW) does not mean we are not the cause.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (February 23, 2010 1:34 am ET)
        3 1
        Ork -

        "the Medieval Warming Period (MWP) is ignored by the warmists"

        Never got that from the interview, nor the peer-reviewed literature. You make it sound like it's been ignored. That's not the case. Try again.
        ---------------------------
        "Paleoclimatic analysis of past CO2 levels shows that rising CO2 levels are the RESULT of global warming, not the cause of it, with lag times as long as 800 years."

        That was then, this is now. The warming mechanisms are different. You don't offer any reasoning behind this statement. Typical for denialist. What's the mechanisms for Paleoclimatic changes vs. today? Got any theories up your sleeve there, ace?
        ----------------------------
        "warming rates for all 4 periods are similar and not statistically significantly different from each other” that includes the most recent warming period being in 1975."

        Well, when you look at small snippets of periods, no, they aren't significantly different. But that's not how any sane, rational person looks at the historical perspective of climate change. Only irrational denialists nit-pick on small "convenient" periods of time to attempt to distort the data. Ya kinda left out part of the quote here, genius: "Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods."
        ------------------------------
        "Since the atmospheric CO2 levels WERE different for the 4 periods, it is reasonable to conclude that there is no correlation between CO2 levels and surface temperature increases." "So, the conclusion from Dr. Jones interview is that the earth may be warming, but it is not caused by increasing CO2 and therefore not caused by human activity."

        Well, since you based your entire argument on misrepresentations and distortions, the only reasonable conclusion is that you are so far off, you may as well be sitting on Uranus. Oh, you probably are.
        ---------------------------
        And Dr. Jones said: "I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 - there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 - there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity."
        ------------------------
        So based on your post, it is reasonable to conclude that once again you demonstrate how denialists refuse to open their minds to the possibility that ACC is real, and will continue to distort what is clearly not true, just because they can't accept reality.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (February 23, 2010 1:49 am ET)
          2 1
          Ork - Links to the facts. Feel free to offer peer-reviewed links of your own, if you have them. Don't bother posting "Wattsupwithat" crap.

          MWP:
          http://www.skepticalscience.com/Was-there-a-Medieval-Warm-Period.html
          http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm

          Causes for historical climate change (see, there ARE explanations for this!):
          http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci102/NatSci102/lectures/climate.htm
          http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Tommy (February 22, 2010 4:40 pm ET)
      3 5
      Great movie that all global warming believers should watch. Former IPCC scientist were interviewed for this. Helps to clearly explain the science as well as the politics behind Man Made Global Warming.

      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5576670191369613647#



      Report Abuse
      • Author by vhw28672478 (February 22, 2010 5:03 pm ET)
        1 2
        polls mean nothing
        Report Abuse
      • Author by mary59 (February 22, 2010 6:48 pm ET)
        4 2
        I'm not a scientist. I'm not a climate scientist, and I suspect that you aren't either. We both have to weigh the scientific consensus. It's clear that a very large majority of climate scientists support the "theory" that global warming is accelerating due to human activity.

        I don't have a vested interest in supporting a "side" Except that logic, common sense and evidence support the climate scientists, and every time your "side" includes links, they're skewed, debunked and often just opinion pieces.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (February 22, 2010 8:22 pm ET)
        3 2
        Tommy-boy -

        Ideology ain't a scientific discipline.

        The IPCC does not define the science, regardless what the conspiracy-theory nutcase denialists would like to claim.

        Did you have time to think over the response to my questions to you above? Here they are again. Think over your answer carefully, and cite your sources. Heck, I'll even accept "Wattsupwiththat".

        So, what is it now? It's not warming? It's cooling? It's warming, but by natural means?

        Can't the denialists ever take a position, other than just denying?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Tommy (February 23, 2010 12:43 pm ET)
            3
          O'rly?


          http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=fa8b3418-802a-23ad-4c52-06f62a53a4e2



          What emerges from our review of the emails and documents, which span a 13-year period from 1996 through November 2009, is much more than, as EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson put it, scientists who "lack interpersonal skills." Rather, the emails show the world's leading climate scientists discussing, among other things:

          * Obstructing the release of damaging data and information;
          * Manipulating data to reach preconceived conclusions;
          * threatening journal editors who published work questioning the climate science "consensus"; and
          * Assuming activist roles to influence the political process.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (February 23, 2010 2:20 pm ET)
            1  
            Tommy-boy--

            Your link starts out with:

            "Hello, I'm Senator Jim Inhofe, the Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. I want to give you a sneak-peek into a major new Senate report on my Committee's investigation into the scandal commonly known as Climategate."

            Jim "Senator Denier" Inhofe. Shoulda known.

            Once again, you denialists confuse ideology with science. I understand it's so difficult for you all to separate them, since denialists apply ideology to their "logic".

            For Inhofe in his "analysis" to imply that all climate scientists are wrong about ACC, based on the flawed actions of a few, is like calling him a convicted felon, because some of his peers have been convicted of taking bribes. Hmmm... Perhaps that label DOES fit him. Oh well, I digress...

            http://www.skepticalscience.com/What-do-the-hacked-CRU-emails-tell-us.html

            Here's a good review of this issue - warts and all:
            http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/hacked-climate-science-emails

            None of this changes the independent data corroborating the facts about ACC.

            So as I asked you before - What is it now? It's not warming? It's cooling? It's warming, but by natural means?

            Can't the denialists ever take a position, other than just denying?
            Report Abuse
      • Author by medas2005 (February 22, 2010 10:03 pm ET)
        1  
        This movie is filled with assertions that are twisted and not backed by any data. I challenge anyone who is moved by this fiction to carefully check out all of the sources to see what they actually say and when they said it. This piece implodes like a poorly executed novel.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jaxon123 (February 22, 2010 7:46 pm ET)
      1 4
      Phil Jones said that he's "100% confident that the climate has warmed"

      Phil Jones ... said that "there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity."

      He didn't say that he's "100% confident that most of the warming is due to human activity." He only said he's confident that the climate has warmed.

      There exists some evidence. On that basis we should bankrupt the whole civilization?!

      Where's the healthy scepticism about such claims? How can you sit there and let somebody say "The debate is over!"

      The climate is a nonlinear system that they claim to have modeled accurately. Then they extrapolate it into the future. More than a little scepticism is required!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by ojnabieoot (February 22, 2010 9:11 pm ET)
        2 1
        Investment in clean energy probably won't bankrupt civilization. Really. Obviously there are irresponsible ways of dealing with climate change, but all mainstream solutions are responsible, and if actually enacted will encourage economic growth by offering new opportunities for investment.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Tbone Slickens (February 23, 2010 8:36 am ET)
          1 1
          and if actually enacted will encourage economic growth by offering new opportunities for investment.


          It sounds good for a soundbite, but it's much harder to do when there isn't any infrastructure to support it.

          Don't believe me though...believe my buddy T Boone.

          Events will dictate when and if there will be real investment opportunities for "clean energy". This AGW slight of hand obviously isn't it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by rumpleteasermom (February 23, 2010 11:17 am ET)
            2  
            It sounds good for a soundbite, but it's much harder to do when there isn't any infrastructure to support it.


            Exactly my point earlier on a different thread. We are ignoring the things we need to do to move into the next era. Other countries are not - we are falling behind and economically it will hurt us in the long run.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (February 23, 2010 2:24 pm ET)
            1  
            slicker -

            "Events will dictate when and if there will be real investment opportunities for "clean energy". This AGW slight of hand obviously isn't it."

            Still confusing ideology with science, I see.

            Did you ever answer my simple questions?

            What is it now? It's not warming? It's cooling? It's warming, but by natural means?

            Can't the denialists ever take a position, other than just denying?

            C'mon. You MUST have a position. If you've answered this already, just point us to the link with your answer.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (February 24, 2010 2:33 pm ET)
                 
              Where'd slick go?

              Did he fly off in his black helicopter, without answering my simple questions? :-(
              Report Abuse
      • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 23, 2010 1:11 pm ET)
        2  
        There exists some evidence. On that basis we should bankrupt the whole civilization?! (jaxon123)


        There is still a lot to be learned about Global Warming. On that basis, you want to torture puppies ??

        Hey, arguing is easy when you get to make up crazy stuff !
        Report Abuse
    • Author by ojnabieoot (February 22, 2010 9:09 pm ET)
         
      So, on another MMFA post (here: http://mediamatters.org/columns/201002190040 ) I gave a slight defense for the Washington Post against the criticism that they were hard-right. Naturally, it turned into a big internet argument. I still stand by this claim, and still think WaPo is a good newspaper, but I totally side with MMFA here: Will should not be allowed to make climate-change columns that contradict established science.

      The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that WaPo is well-intentioned, and no more easily politicized than most other major American newspapers, but has a de facto system of tenure for its columnists which seems to encourage misleading garbage like this.

      Though the worst part of it all: Will is still one of the best conservative columnists around.
      Report Abuse

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