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Garrett presents Obama's rebuttal of GOP health care falsehoods as he-said/he-said

February 25, 2010 9:35 pm ET — 27 Comments

Fox News' Major Garrett presented President Obama disagreeing with Sen. Lamar Alexander's falsehood that under the Senate health care bill "premiums go up because of the government mandate" and Rep. Paul Ryan's falsehood that the Senate bill "does not ... reduce the deficit" as a he-said, he-said debate. But the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) supports Obama on both points.

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From the February 25 edition of Fox News' Special Report:

GARRETT: But Republicans brought serious complaints about insurance premiums, for example. And then, the sparks flew.

[start video clip]

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): Premiums will go up, and they will also go up because of the government mandates.

OBAMA: It's not factually accurate. The cost for families for the same type of coverage as they're currently receiving would go down 14 to 20 percent.

ALEXANDER: I believe, with respect, you're wrong.

[end video clip]

GARRETT: Republicans also pressed Mr. Obama on costs.

[start video clip]

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI) [video clip]: This bill does not control costs. This bill does not reduce deficits. Instead, this bill adds a new health care entitlement at a time when we have no idea how to pay for entitlements we already have.           

[end video clip]

GARRETT: The president said current Democratic bills try to save in one instance by reducing what he called wasteful subsidies for Medicare Advantage, prompting an unexpected convergence.

CBO backs Obama: Bill would actually result in lower premiums for most enrollees

CBO: Premiums paid by most individuals would decrease. The CBO estimated that premiums paid by a majority of people insured on the individual market would decrease when factoring in federal subsidies that are included in the bill. CBO stated, "The majority of nongroup enrollees (about 57 percent) would receive subsidies via the new insurance exchanges, and those subsidies, on average, would cover nearly two-thirds of the total premium, CBO and JCT [Joint Committee on Taxation] estimate. Thus, the amount that subsidized enrollees would pay for nongroup coverage would be roughly 56 percent to 59 percent lower, on average, than the nongroup premiums charged under current law." Conservative claims that the bill would increase premiums in the individual market are based on estimates that do not factor in subsidies. CBO stated that figures identical to those cited by conservatives "indicate what enrollees would pay, on average, not accounting for the new federal subsidies."

CBO: Premiums increase for some in nongroup market rise due to people buying more coverage. CBO found that the increase in average premiums in the nongroup market was due to people purchasing "a greater amount of coverage:

Average premiums would be 27 percent to 30 percent higher because a greater amount of coverage would be obtained. In particular, the average insurance policy in this market would cover a substantially larger share of enrollees' costs for health care (on average) and a slightly wider range of benefits. Those expansions would reflect both the minimum level of coverage (and related requirements) specified in the proposal and people's decisions to purchase more extensive coverage in response to the structure of subsidies.

This increase would be partially offset by "a net reduction in costs that insurers incurred to deliver the same amount of insurance coverage to the same group of enrollees" and "a shift in the types of people obtaining coverage."

Washington Post's Ezra Klein: "CBO found health-care reform would reduce premiums." The Washington Post's Ezra Klein reported on Alexander and Obama's exchange in a February 25 post:

Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama just had a contentious exchange on this point, so it's worth settling the issue: Yes, the CBO found health-care reform would reduce premiums. The issue gets confused because it also found that access to subsidies would encourage people to buy more comprehensive insurance, which would mean that the value of their insurance would be higher after reform than before it. But that's not the same as insurance becoming more expensive: The fact that I could buy a nicer car after getting a better job suggests that cars are becoming pricier. The bottom line is that if you're comparing two plans that are exactly the same, costs go down after reform.

CNN's Velshi: "57 percent of those insured will see a government subsidy, which will bring the average premium down, actually." During CNN's coverage of the health care summit, Wolf Blitzer aired a portion of Obama's exchange with Alexander, and chief business correspondent Ali Velshi stated that Obama was "more right than Senator Alexander." Velshi stated: "The CBO, which is an independent -- independent of the political party -- says that rates will go up. But here's the reality: 57% of those insured will see a government subsidy, which will bring the average premium down, actually. It would be -- it would drive average premiums down 7 to 10 percent, but this is all based on assumptions."

PolitiFact: "CBO reported that, for most people, premiums would stay about the same, or slightly decrease." A January 27 PolitiFact.com analysis labeled the claim that health care reform would cause premiums for most Americans to increase "pants on fire" false and stated: "The CBO reported that, for most people, premiums would stay about the same, or slightly decrease." From PolitiFact.com:

On Nov. 30, 2009, the Congressional Budget Office, or CBO, released a detailed analysis on how health insurance premiums might be affected by the Senate Democrats' health care bill. The CBO is an independent agency whose estimates for pending legislation are considered nonpartisan and rigorous.

The CBO reported that, for most people, premiums would stay about the same, or slightly decrease. This was especially true for people who get their insurance through work. (Health policy wonks call these the large group and small group markets.) People who have to go out and buy insurance on their own (the individual market) would see rates increase by 10 to 13 percent. But more than half of those people -- 57 percent, in fact -- would be eligible for subsidies to help them pay for the insurance. People who get subsidies would see their premiums drop by more than half, according to the CBO. So most people would see their premiums stay the same or potentially drop.

CBO: Premiums in group market will not increase. CBO estimated that the large group and small group markets make up 83 percent of the insurance market and that those premiums will not increase.

CBO back Obama: Both health bills would reduce deficit

CBO: Senate bill yields "a net reduction in federal deficits of $132 billion" over 10 years. From CBO's December 19 cost estimate of the Senate bill incorporating the manager's amendment:

CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act incorporating the manager's amendment would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $130 billion over the 2010-2019 period.

CBO expects Senate bill to continue deficit reduction during decade after 2019. CBO also estimated on December 20 that the bill will continue to reduce the deficit beyond the 10-year budget window that ends in 2019 "with a total effect during that decade that is in a broad range between one-quarter percent and one-half percent of GDP."

CBO also estimated the House bill will result in deficit reductions through 2019 and in the subsequent decade. From the November 6 CBO estimate:

According to CBO and JCT's assessment, enacting H.R. 3962 would result in a net reduction in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2010-2019 period (see Table 1) [this estimate was later updated to $138 billion over the same period]. In the subsequent decade, the collective effect of its provisions would probably be slight reductions in federal budget deficits. Those estimates are all subject to substantial uncertainty.

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    • Author by Bad News (February 25, 2010 9:49 pm ET)
      5 4
      "Please Don't Fox News Me"
      Don't Lie, Don't Smear & Don't Mis-inform See.
      Fox News a long time ago sold out their Credibility.
      "Baracks baby Mama" There's a Phrase that will live for Eternity.

      Speak truth to power.


      Mr. News
      Report Abuse
      • Author by carlileb5935 (February 25, 2010 10:42 pm ET)
        7 1
        Matthews and Company started doing the same thing tonight-- it was all about style, and he said/she said, and no attempt to rebut the Republicans.

        But then something odd happened. As soon as they started noting stunts like Cantor's printout then the whole tone of the show changed. By the time they got to Willie Brown, Matthews was openly hostile to the Republicans and-- glory be-- actually started talking substance and reality!

        So just what mechanism prompted this? Republican overreach? There may be lesson here for Dems in how to deal with the MSM.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by smarshall1432997 (February 26, 2010 11:51 am ET)
          3 2
          We saw how Chris Matthews talked about why Pres. Obama addressed everyone by their first names, and how these same people addressed him as Mr. President. Huh? What was Chris talking about? Thank God for Nora to put it ALL in a nothing-to-see bit for Chris, LOL.

          Btw, we REALLY missed NOT having Keith and Rachel last night too. We were so SAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDD.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Missouri Democrat (February 26, 2010 6:17 pm ET)
            1  
            smarshall same here I missed not seeing Keith and Rachel last night. I'm just hoping Keith's dad didn't die. That poor man I saw Keith's special comment the other night and I feel so badly for him and his dad. I guess we'll know tonight whether or not.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by mrhebert74 (February 25, 2010 10:20 pm ET)
      13 1
      Somewhere after that exchange between Alexander and Obama, the president reiterated that he was "not wrong," and invited Alexander to produce any evidence he could, adding, "We're going to be here all day." I wonder how that turned out for Lamar?
      Later a Democrat pointed out that his Republican colleague frequently relied on the CBO's analysis to make points, but that the Republican was unwilling to believe the CBO in this case (about deficit reduction).
      It's pretty bad when the Republicans have to support their position by sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "I can't hear you!"
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Aurien (February 25, 2010 10:40 pm ET)
        1  
        It’s nothing more than typical Republican/Fox News strategy. When someone like the CBO has a report that shows the policy of Democrats will have a negative impact, i.e. increasing the deficit. Then the CBO is considered a credible source and should be listened to. The minute they show Democratic policy would be good and lower the deficit. Then Republicans/Fox News question how valid of a source the CBO is and run reports asking “Who is the CBO?”.

        It’s the same thing as the constant line of “liberal media bias”. This allows them to discredit and ignore any negative news about Republicans, because it’s obviously liberal media bias. And the people they’re suppose to be representing agree, because they keep getting told this and ignore the news.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by txthinker (February 26, 2010 9:25 am ET)
        5  
        It's pretty bad when the Republicans have to support their position by sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "I can't hear you!"

        They've been doing that for years.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by rrastro (February 25, 2010 10:30 pm ET)
      1 14
      rates will go up...same service pool, lots more money means inflation
      Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (February 26, 2010 12:08 am ET)
      2 1
      It's interesting to note that many of the estimates above are several months old and I've seen a couple of places the past few days that the CBO is not updating their cost figures until they have more information. Will be interesting to see those.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by angels4light (February 26, 2010 9:40 am ET)
        4  
        Indeed it will. The CBO has not had time to project anything for the President's outline. Something else that I just chuckle over is how the size in pages keeps rising. The last number I heard was over 2700 pages! And honestly, if that is what it takes to adequately cover this very complex piece of legislation, so be it.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (February 26, 2010 9:41 am ET)
      1 6
      -- But that's not the same as insurance becoming more expensive: The fact that I could buy a nicer car after getting a better job suggests that cars are becoming pricier. -- Klein

      A better job? That might be true if the health bill provided for better jobs. It doesn't...it provides govt.spending to offset the high cost.

      The health care debate was started long ago with the premise that health care costs were too expensive...and the high cost prevented some people from from being able to purchase health care insurance.

      This bill does little to reduce the cost of health care...it just reduces the premiums paid by injecting huge govt. subsidies...paid for with the assumption that the federal govt. can find huge savings in the existing programs...something that they have failed at time and time again.

      The reward that the federal govt. enacting reform that saves money is not worth the risk that they will perform as always by failing to deliver on the promised savings...leaving the public holding the bag on the subsidies...and stuck with another bloated, unworkable federal program.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by trees251 (February 26, 2010 10:32 am ET)
        2  
        Wesley, your post contains some inaccuracies driven more by your political beliefs than your knowledge of the facts. In the first place, you ignore the point of Klein's analogy to getting a better car. The point is, if people can afford better care, they will choose that. This is not a jobs bill, and any reference to jobs in your message is a distraction from the subject of this discussion.
        This bill does little to reduce the cost of health care

        The bill contains several cost-reduction provisions. For example, it reduces the cost of Medicare substantially by removing unfunded provisions inserted into the program during the Bush administration.
        something that they have failed at time and time again.

        Of course, when Bush and the Republican congress passed the Medicare increases, it was not trying to reduce costs. If you don't try to reduce costs, it's never going to happen.
        enacting reform that saves money is not worth the risk

        What exactly is not worth the risk? Without changes in the current system of medical care, the federal government, and indeed the rest of the economy, will be saddled with immense medical costs for the foreseeable future. The cost of not acting is economic stagnation. Another cost of not acting is the loss of thousands of lives that could have been save with affordable medical care. What you are saying is the risk of the bill's failure outweighs the possible benefits of its success. When you say that government programs never succeed, you are purposely ignoring the many programs that do work, possibly because you don't understand where the money comes from to build highways, bridges, airports, hospitals, universities, and all the other components of a modern technological society.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (February 26, 2010 10:51 am ET)
        5  
        Wesley the Weasel has dishonestly cropped Ezra Klein's comments to distort what he actually said.

        Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama just had a contentious exchange on this point, so it's worth settling the issue: Yes, the CBO found health-care reform would reduce premiums. The issue gets confused because it also found that access to subsidies would encourage people to buy more comprehensive insurance, which would mean that the value of their insurance would be higher after reform than before it. But that's not the same as insurance becoming more expensive: The fact that I could buy a nicer car after getting a better job suggests that cars are becoming pricier. The bottom line is that if you're comparing two plans that are exactly the same, costs go down after reform.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 26, 2010 10:57 am ET)
          3  
          In weasely's defense, I'm not sure it was dishonest cropping as much as honest confusion. I think he just missed the point.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by smarshall1432997 (February 26, 2010 12:49 pm ET)
            4  
            'Missing the point' about FACTS for HCR had been Alexander and Republicans game plan all along to their Voters. Republicans talk in BROAD language (deficits) just to keep the status quo. LOL.

            Btw, history on Health Services for Americans have ALWAYS been provided by some Republicans and a MAJORITY of DEMOCRATS i.e. Social Security, Medicare, SCHIPS, etc. When HCR passes, just watch those Republican "No" Voters over-flow the Medical Clinics for their HealthCare "NEEDS" as they praise God and thank Congress. Wait a minute. Uh, oh. Too funny indeed. LOL.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Don Hussein Fabuloso (February 26, 2010 9:33 pm ET)
              1  
              Yeah, I know there's a lot of deliberate "missing the point" going on, I just meant that Wesley may have been confused by the analogy. The right wing mind sometimes has a tough time with abstract thought.

              He saw "job" in the analogy, and started reflexively complaining about some imaginary job issue.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by Snicker (February 26, 2010 11:07 am ET)
        7
      It IS a matter of he-said/he-said. If you're going to cite the CBO in order to be credible you have to state what assumptions they were working with. This is normally not done for the public so we're left with only general bites of information without context.

      The article states that the premiums will go down because of subsidies. Are we supposed to believe that those subsidies are going to be paid from "Obama's stash"? Everyone should know that more subsidies = more taxes. So although it may be technically correct that premiums will go down, the money is still being paid in the form of taxes.

      As for the supposed budget deficit reductions it's been said by the GOP that the reason the reductions exist is because the CBO wasn't given all of the costs to consider and the CBO only considers what's given them. They have no mandate to consider the whole picture.

      In short, while it may make for dramatic headlines anyone who relies on CBO reports for accurate information should back it up with a full accounting of what they were given to work with. Until that's done a CBO report should be considered as nothing but propaganda from whoever submitted the data for analysis.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by The_Cat (February 26, 2010 11:21 am ET)
        7  
        We are ranked 37th in the entire world for health outcomes. We pay twice, per person, what any other country on earth pays. So, where is that extra fifty cents out of every dollar going now, Snicker? Well, some of it goes out as dividends to stock holders, some to advertising, some to executive bonus and pay scales, and some is spent to keep Congress from reforming an insurance system that is designed to make the wealthy more wealthy, rather than to make the sick well again.

        With a strong public option, able to pull in the 30 million currently uninsured Americans, the for profit companies would either have to lower their costs or go out of business. With such an incentive, I'm sure they would quickly find a way to reduce costs quite dramatically, thus ensuring even better health coverage for all.

        Around 3000 Americans died on 9-11, and IN ONE NIGHT, the Republicans passed the Patriot Act. 45,000 Americans die from lack of coverage each year, but so long as the bottom line looks good, the Republicans could care less. Good thing they are out of power.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by stanlee18048 (February 26, 2010 12:21 pm ET)
      3  
      Has the last true progressive website(Media Matters) failed us?

      CNN did a hit job on the Democrats and President Obama and it's documented here.
      Breaking: CNN's Stunning One-Sided Coverage of Health Care Summit
      by mediapolitic [Subscribe]

      Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 10:30:21 AM PST
      "In a stunning display of one-sided coverage, during the first three hours of coverage of the Health Care Summit televised so far, CNN only interrupted, whether for commercial or comment, Democratic speakers." http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/2/25/840666/-Breaking:-CNNs-Stunning-One-Sided-Coverage-of-Health-Care-Summit
      Report Abuse
      • Author by smarshall1432997 (February 26, 2010 1:04 pm ET)
        2  
        Yeap, we noticed that too with CNN yesterday. Too bad Keith and Rachel were off on MSNBC. Anyways, seems like CNN got upset when Pres. Obama mentioned FoxNews and MSNBC during the HealthCare Summit and did NOT mention their cable network. Uh, oh. LOL.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Bulletproof Air (February 26, 2010 12:59 pm ET)
      4  
      I watched the ENTIRE summit (I had surgery this week, so was able to watch). Unfortunately, I was wretching in pain....partly from the surgery, but mostly from the inability of the Repubs. to listen to anyone else but themselves.

      The Repubs. repeated, I counted 3 times, within about 30 minutes, that the CBO stated "premiums would skyrocket under Obama's gov't run healthcare." They were corrected yet continued to repeat it, while cameras showed Dems. shoving their faces into their hands in disbelief that this lie just kept being repeated.

      I'm getting the impression that a minority of the Repubs. are running their party's show, and anyone that doesn't fall in line behind them will be ignored or ridiculed as "libertarian" or "progressive." The facts aren't something you can just ignore!

      Also, I fail to see the point of starting over with the bill....there are MANY ideas to agree or disagree on...wouldn't starting over just bring up these ideas ALL OVER again!? yes...

      The Repubots WANT incrementalism. They will be able to filibuster it in pieces without the Democratic (in this case) option of reconciliation.

      I hope people can now see Repubs. don't care about families, they just want Obama to fail. And with the denial of the extension of unemployment benefits to over a million people, the Repubs. are DIGGING their own graves.

      I even laughed out loud (despite the pain) after the Repubs. desperate pleas for Obama to trash reconciliation and their claim that "nothing of this precedent has ever been proposed."

      It's just now blatantly obvious that every single Republican, with a few Dems., are COMPLETELY in the pockets of insurance companies....this was even more evident with their FREQUENT accusations (lies) of "medicare" being cut....they can't risk losing their kickbacks from medicare advantage.

      They are purposefully misleading the public for personal gain. It's just sick. I'd like to see these guys lose their health insurance.....maybe they would have an INKLING of what it's like to be a middle class American with a full time job...

      Or maybe one of them should have an accident....
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Unreality (February 27, 2010 10:21 pm ET)
        2  
        Sorry to read you were ailing while watching the summit. While analgesics may help your pain, the cognitive dissonance while watching Republicans utter hollow talking points has no Rx.

        When I watched clips my blood pressure went up - fortunately I don't have high blood pressure.
        Report Abuse
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