In newest column, Wash. Post's Thiessen defends witch hunt against DOJ lawyers
Washington Post columnist Marc Thiessen defended the witch hunt against Justice Department attorneys who previously represented terror suspects and other detainees, falsely suggesting that criticism of the witch hunt has come only from progressives, when, in fact, conservatives have also condemned the attacks.
Thiessen brings "shameful" attacks on DOJ lawyers to Post pages
In column, Thiessen defended attacks on DOJ lawyers, singled out Clinton-era official Walter Dellinger for criticism. From Thiessen's March 8 column:
Finally, two weeks ago, he [Attorney General Eric Holder] admitted that nine political appointees in the Justice Department had represented or advocated for terrorist detainees, but he failed to identify seven whose names were not publicly known or to directly answer other questions the senators posed. So Keep America Safe, a group headed by Liz Cheney, posted a Web ad demanding that Holder identify the "al-Qaeda seven," and a subsequent Fox News investigation unearthed the names. Only under this public pressure did the Justice Department confirm their identities -- but Holder still refuses to disclose their roles in detention policy.
[...]
Yet for raising questions, Cheney and the Republican senators have been vilified. Former Clinton Justice Department official Walter Dellinger decried the "shameful" personal attacks on "these fine lawyers," while numerous commentators leveled charges of "McCarthyism."
Numerous conservatives have joined Dellinger in condemning attacks on DOJ lawyers. According to Politico's Ben Smith, numerous conservatives signed a letter agreeing with Dellinger that the attacks on the Justice Department lawyers are "shameful." They also said the attacks "undermine the Justice system." Smith reported that the signers include:
[F]ormer Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson, John Ashcroft's No. 2, and Peter Keisler, who served as acting attorney general during President Bush's second term. They also include several lawyers who dealt directly with detainee policy: Matthew Waxman and Charles "Cully" Stimson, who each served as deputy assistant secretary of defense for detainee affairs; Daniel Dell'Orto, who was acting general counsel for the Department of Defense; and Bradford Berenson, a prominent Washington lawyer who worked on the issues as an associate White House counsel during President Bush's first term.
Conservatives noted that DOJ lawyers acted in the tradition of John Adams. From the statement signed by Bush administration lawyers:
The past several days have seen a shameful series of attacks on attorneys in the Department of Justice who, in previous legal practice, either represented Guantanamo detainees or advocated for changes to detention policy. As attorneys, former officials, and policy specialists who have worked on detention issues, we consider these attacks both unjust to the individuals in question and destructive of any attempt to build lasting mechanisms for counterterrorism adjudications.
The American tradition of zealous representation of unpopular clients is at least as old as John Adams's representation of the British soldiers charged in the Boston massacre. People come to serve in the Justice Department with a diverse array of prior private clients; that is one of the department's strengths. The War on Terror raised any number of novel legal questions, which collectively created a significant role in judicial, executive and legislative forums alike for honorable advocacy on behalf of detainees. In several key cases, detainee advocates prevailed before the Supreme Court. To suggest that the Justice Department should not employ talented lawyers who have advocated on behalf of detainees maligns the patriotism of people who have taken honorable positions on contested questions and demands a uniformity of background and view in government service from which no administration would benefit.
Such attacks also undermine the Justice system more broadly. In terrorism detentions and trials alike, defense lawyers are playing, and will continue to play, a key role. Whether one believes in trial by military commission or in federal court, detainees will have access to counsel. Guantanamo detainees likewise have access to lawyers for purposes of habeas review, and the reach of that habeas corpus could eventually extend beyond this population. Good defense counsel is thus key to ensuring that military commissions, federal juries, and federal judges have access to the best arguments and most rigorous factual presentations before making crucial decisions that affect both national security and paramount liberty interests.
Wash. Post itself has criticized the attacks on DOJ lawyers. From the Post's March 5 editorial:
It is important to remember that no less an authority than the Supreme Court ruled that those held at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, must be allowed to challenge their detentions in a U.S. court. It is exceedingly difficult to exercise that right meaningfully without the help of a lawyer. It is also worth remembering that the Bush administration wanted to try some Guantanamo detainees in military commissions -- a forum in which a defendant is guaranteed legal representation. Even so, it took courage for attorneys to stand up in the midst of understandable societal rage to protect the rights of those accused of terrorism. Advocates knew that ignorance and fear would too often cloud reason. They knew that this hysteria made their work on these cases all the more important. The video from Keep America Safe proves they were right.
Thiessen misrepresents DOJ lawyers' arguments on Guantánamo detainees
Thiessen suggested DOJ's Daskal was more concerned for detainees' rights than American lives. From Thiessen's column (ellipses in the original):
One lawyer in the National Security Division of Holder's Justice Department, Jennifer Daskal, has written that any terrorist not charged with a crime "should be released from Guantanamo's system of indefinite detention" even though "at least some of these men may ... join the battlefield to fight U.S. soldiers and our allies another day." Should a lawyer who advocates setting terrorists free, knowing they may go on to kill Americans, have any role in setting U.S. detention policy? My hunch is that most Americans would say no.
In fact, Daskal argued that holding detainees indefinitely without charge is "a greater threat to the United States." From Daskal's Human Rights Watch report, "How to Close Guantanamo":
An insurgency like al Qaeda is not static, but fluid and dynamic. If the particular detainees in Guantanamo are kept out of circulation, others can -- and will -- fight in their place. The supply outstrips demand. The high-profile detentions of a few dozen potentially dangerous men in Guantanamo do little to make the United States safer. To the contrary, it delegitimizes U.S. moral authority, helps to fuel the "recuperative power" of the enemy, and undercuts critical efforts to win hearts and minds.
The United States should do everything it can to mitigate the risks posed by the release of these men. It should press their home countries to lawfully monitor returned detainees' activities and to charge and detain anyone who commits a criminal act. But some countries are unable or unwilling to take on that role. Nearly 100 of the remaining Guantanamo detainees are Yemeni. It is unlikely that the United States will ever be adequately satisfied that Yemen is taking sufficient steps to monitor and respond to acts of terrorism within its borders. Does that mean that these Yemenis should be locked up without charge -- possibly until the ends of their lives -- based on an assessment that they might pose a future risk? No. They should be released. Doing so will require an assumption of risk. It will require the United States to accept that at least some of these men may cross the border and join the battlefield to fight U.S. soldiers and our allies another day.
General Barry McCaffrey, former U.S. drug czar, following an academic mission to Guantanamo Bay, advised the Pentagon: World opinion is so united against the detention facility that "there is now no possible political support for Guantanamo going forward." It "may be cheaper and cleaner to kill them in combat then sit on them the next 15 years."
General McCaffrey makes a point. Those detained at Guantanamo present a greater threat to the United States than they would if they returned to the battlefield, where -- under the laws of war -- they can be shot and killed on sight.
Supreme Court found that Bush admin violated detainee rights in cases at issue
Thiessen claimed DOJ lawyers were "using federal courts as a tool to undermine our military." Thiessen also wrote in his column: "The habeas lawyers were not doing their constitutional duty to defend unpopular criminal defendants. They were using the federal courts as a tool to undermine our military's ability to keep dangerous enemy combatants off the battlefield in a time of war."
Supreme Court repeatedly found that Bush administration was violating detainee's rights. According to a Foxnews.com blog post cited by Thiessen, two of the Justice Department attorneys at issue represented "six Bosnian-Algerian detainees held at Guantanamo Bay," including Lakhdar Boumediene. In Boumediene v. Bush, the Supreme Court found that the Bush administration had violated Guantánamo detainees' constitutional right to present habeas corpus petitions to civilian courts. In addition, the Foxnews.com blog post noted that another of the DOJ lawyers was Neal Katyal, who represented Salim Hamdan in the Supreme Court case of Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. In that case, the Supreme Court found that the Bush administration had violated the Geneva Conventions in its handling of detainees.
Thiessen relies on conspiracy theorist Andy McCarthy for attack on DOJ lawyers
Thiessen quoted Andy McCarthy's attack on DOJ lawyers. Thiessen countered the argument that the Justice Department lawyers "are simply following a great American tradition, in which everyone gets a lawyer and their day in court" by quoting National Review Online's Andy McCarthy. Thiessen wrote:
Some defenders say al-Qaeda lawyers are simply following a great American tradition, in which everyone gets a lawyer and their day in court. Not so, says Andy McCarthy, the former assistant U.S. attorney who put Omar Abdel Rahman, the "blind sheik," behind bars for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. "We need to be clear about what the American tradition is," McCarthy told me. "The Sixth Amendment guarantees the accused -- that means somebody who has been indicted or otherwise charged with a crime -- a right to counsel. But that right only exists if you are accused, which means you are someone who the government has brought into the civilian criminal justice system." The habeas lawyers were not doing their constitutional duty to defend unpopular criminal defendants. They were using the federal courts as a tool to undermine our military's ability to keep dangerous enemy combatants off the battlefield in a time of war.
McCarthy has questioned Obama's birth certificate, claimed that Ayers may have written Obama's book. Undermining his credibility as an Obama administration critic, McCarthy demanded a "vault copy" of President Obama's birth certificate in a National Review article, claiming that it is necessary to determine Obama's "honesty." The article contained sub-headlines such as "Who Is This Guy?" and "A Muslim Citizen of Indonesia." McCarthy has also written two blog posts claiming that former Weather Underground member William Ayers may have written Obama's memoir, Dreams from My Father.
In his book, Thiessen took attacks on DOJ lawyers to another level
In his book, Thiessen attacked lawyers who worked at firms that represented detainees. In his book, Courting Disaster: How the CIA Kept America Safe and How Barack Obama Is Inviting the Next Attack, Thiessen not only attacked the Justice Department attorneys who represented terror suspects, but he also attacked "senior partners" at law firms in which other lawyers took on such cases for allowing "work on behalf of America's terrorist enemies" to continue.

















Cuthbert J. Worrierking.
It doesn't matter WHO makes the post. It's not ignoring a screen name. It's ignoring the contribution when it's off topic and/or not intended to participate in the debate!
And that CAN be done, even if they come back as another screen name. In fact, being reborn with a new screen name has nothing to do with anything.
You're wrong here. It's too bad you won't admit it.
You are the one who is wrong, but you won't admit it. I've been on internet forums for years. Trolls don't go away if they are ignored, they simply come back and continue to post false information. Ignoring their crap gives it credence.
As I've said, if you want to IGNORE THE TROLLS, do so, but don't presume to lecture everyone else.
I have clearly explained, MULTIPLE times, HOW to ignore the troll. I have explained, doofus, that ONE PERSON debunks what they say, and then they tell OTHERS to not feed the troll post.
That DOES work.
No one wants to see YOU feeding trolls.
And it still baffles me why you think YOU should be able to tell me NOT to do what I am suggesting, but you don't think I should be able to tell people what I think others should do.
You just don't think before you post sometimes. You'd be well-advised to stop behaving that way.
Right here, you alleged that we shouldn't ignore trolls because they only come back with a new screen name. That was a bogus argument. The one above is also a bogus argument.
If you don't want to help the site out, feel free to ignore my solutions, which DO work. But stop with the bogus arguments against it. Debunking what a troll post says, and then warning others to not reply, DOES work quite often. It's not a perfect solution, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used, because it does OFTEN work.
Stop being so self-centered and try it. Stop feeding trolls.
Yet 90% of your posts on this board are lecturing people about how THEY should behave. But god forbid someone do the same to you.
Where you want to go with that fact is your business.
Did you read the article? If you think that a lawyer who defends a terrorist is, in turn, supportive of that terrorist's views, then, by your logic, you believe that lawyers who represent murderers, are murderers, lawyers who represent rapists are rapists, etc. Stupid logic.
Cheney is doing this in order to attempt to sully the image of the DOJ. Why? Because she and her daddy and his pals who pushed the illegal and unnecessary invasion of Iraq based upon LIES and who have ADMITTED to authorizing the crime of torture are scared to DEATH they are going to go to jail. They are attempting to discredit the DOJ which would be the body bringing such charges and prosecuting.
Really simple logic.
Oh really?
"Following 9/11, President Bush and seven top officials of his administration waged a carefully orchestrated campaign of misinformation about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's Iraq."
link
It's not a good image - if you want to continue to bleed credibility, keep it up.
In most cases, these people did NOT lie. Yes, there were a few LIES. Most of the things that are quoted in the list the previous poster provided are NOT lies. The vast majority is not identifiable as lies. I know that there are some lies in there. My previous post didn't deny that, did it? Of course it didn't - that was YOUR kneejerk reaction that read that into it.
Really, you need to get rid of your personal animus towards me. It's misguided and baseless.
Yes, I understand MMFA's decision and agree with it as sound. But that has nothing to do with the link I posted, which documents lies, untruths that were known to be so when uttered.
Yes, that is a shock to me, because it isn't true; it is one of your made-up facts.
Yes, that makes sense. I don't know any lawyers, but then, maybe I am one of them! Troll away, Jose2-4.
But I did love your insinuation that funnyman both doesn't know any lawyers and yet hangs out with them and is one himself!! Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?
Funny that you find the second amendment so clear and absolute yet you ignore the sixth.
I wasn't aware that the Bill of Rights was a menu for us to pick which rights apply and in what circumstances.
Jose4, another "Great American".
In that movie a lawyer sold his soul to defend a rapist.
You are guilty until proven innocent, and innocent until proven broke.
Did you see the movie "Dumb and Dumber"? Still trying to figure out if you're more like the Jim Carrey or Jeff Daniels character.
Not surprised since we treat prisoners like they're the terrorist of the week on Jack Bauer's show.
(Don't be offended, Jose4. He got you there. Using fiction to justify policy is absurd...)
You can't keep trying different people for the same crime until you get a conviction.
Because the devil? What the-?
You're right. We should no longer allow any defense to a rape charge because a half-azz movie makes you scared. Well done, Josey.
"Devil's Advocate is a MOVIE, you moron!
Oh, it was in a movie!! I didn't realize you had such airtight evidence to back up your assertion. I take it all back, you are obviously correct and extremely well-informed.
There is no justice.
That's all there is to this smear. In fact, that's all there is to anything Liz Cheney's extremist organization does.
This is a gross manipulation of language. The adverb "only" does not apply here, especially in its syntaxical location.
Just because Media Matters infers that he is referring ONLY to progressives does not mean that Thiessen implied it.
Jose, did you read the article? I'm betting not.
Did you know that the first thing they teach in Harvard Law School is that there is no justice?
I am providing facts to help you think for yourself.
This advice from a person I've never seen post an original thought on this website.
Carry on, jose2-4.
Please point the reference to anyone you would identify as being from "the right" in this article who is mentioned BY NAME.
Media Matters simply said that Thiessen suggested that ONLY progressives were being implicated, which is not necessarily the case. A more accurate assertion would have been, "Thiessen implicates left by name, fails to implicate right by name."
You cannot handle the truth.
Schwartz clearly pointed out why MM is in a huff. Whoever wrote this crybaby article must have been desperate for a topic.
Here's a line that might apply to you from one of my favorites.
"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."
Groucho Marx
So, apparently Jose0 has seen A Few Good Men
Which is exactly what the MMFA has written. When you write "This is a gross manipulation of language. The adverb 'only' does not apply here, especially in its syntaxical location," you are simply throwing around fancy words like "syntaxical [sic] location" to make it sound like you have an argument. The syntax and the location have nothing to do with your point.
Why the [sic]? Aww.... Is it because Dictionary.com doesn't have it? Better tell Angel Day and Sydney Smith.
That should keep me going for another day!
That should keep me going for another day!" - Josey24
Yes, but have you seen "Parenthood"? That movie is a perfect example of why lawyers will not take divorce cases. You might end up mistaking a vibrator for a flashlight.
Which just proves my point. You are being pompous instead of just stating what you did above; syntax has nothing to do with your argument. Syntaxtical is indeed an adjective, but the OED lists it as rare; there is no reason for you to use the rare adjective, just as there is no basis for grounding your argument by noting faulty syntax (when there was none).
I do agree with your point that Thiessen does not seem to single out progressives, a case you could have made simply, as I have already pointed out.
to:
"only falsely suggesting that criticism of the witch hunt has come from progressives"
And that, my fellow pompous friend, is syntax.
Also, there is a very good reason for using "syntaxical" rather than "syntactical," although they are my own literary preferences (which is all I care about for this purpose). "Syntactical locations" is, to me, awkwardly alliterative in its velar-plosive continuity. "Syntaxical locations" at least breaks it up and makes it flow better--again, to me. How's that for pompusness?
And yes, I recognize that if I had chosen the more commonly used word, I wouldn't be wasting my time defending myself...
By the way, since you enjoy using snark, and being pompous on top of it, you do realize that's a run-on sentence, right?
Are you being paid by the post? If so someone is being ripped off.
Are you being paid by the post? If so someone is being ripped off." - Josey24
I actually agree with you there, Josey.
But, have you seen the movie "Speed"? It is a perfect example of why lawyers will not take hit-and-run cases. They might end up under an unstoppable speeding bus, strapped to a scooter with Sandra Bullock.
Liz Cheney = Mean Woman
Firstly and foremost, a lawyer is an officer of the court. Secondly, he or she is an advocate for his or her client. In the pretrial stage much of this advocacy involves ensuring that the law is applied correctly.
In a jury trial the facts of the case are determined by the jury following examination and cross-examination of witnesses. The judge instructs the jury how to apply the law to the facts and they render a verdict based on their belief as to the facts. Counsel's role in advocating for the one party or the other has very little to do with the rights and wrongs of the beliefs of their client. Actually it's generally quite clinical and tedious - far from the excitement of your average television courtroom drama.
And you raise an issue that I hadn't considered. This is drama television material with viewer ratings possibly up there with OJ's trial.
No one wants to be defeated
Showin' how funky and strong is your fight.
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right.
Just prove it, prove it
etc...
1. You are wrong.
2. You are a joke.
3. Prove it.
There are a few more but the sentences are less coherent.
I mean have you seen "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure"? It perfectly illustrates why an ethical lawyer would never take a case where a pothead is the defendant. They might end up stuck in a time machine with George Carlin.
Other than that it would probably be as boring as bats#1t.
I actually have no problem with these guys defending the terrorists. They are simply doing what they feel is in their best interest, and it seems to have worked. Should the DOJ employ these people? I don't see why not. It doesn't follow that just because one defends a terrorist in court means they are sympathetic. They COULD be, but not necessarily.
However, can Liz Cheney criticize the DOJ for doing so? I don't see why not, since she is simply doing what she feels is in her best interest, and it seems to have worked... She can demand that the DOJ fire these people all she wants, but that doesn't mean the DOJ should.
It's dangerous to categorically state that no one should defend rapists, since not all accused rapists are actual rapists. See the Duke Lacrosse case. Kerry Sutton, defense attorney, is now running for District Judge...
The Innocence Project
I think you'd be singing a different tune if you ever got falsely accused of a crime.
It's a smear that encompasses men and women of our armed forces. Military lawyers have passionately and often successfully defended Gitmo detainees. Because they are committed to justice and liberty. I'm not sure when devotion to American values started making you sympathetic to terrorists. These lawyers have clearly demonstrated a strong commitment to our justice system, they have donated their time and effort, almost always pro bono and at the risk of their reputations, to defend our American justice system. And apparently being committed to the American justice system makes you sympathetic to Al Qaeda. I wonder what kind of justice system Al Qaeda believes in?
One of the most absurd things about the ad is that it is asking viewers to make the assumption that every single person that's been detained at Guantanomo is a terrorist, and an al qaeda operative on top of that, which is certainly false. There ar eplenty of innocent people at Gitmo. It's just as absurd as Jose4 implying that all accused rapists are actually rapists.
Our government behaves more like lawyers than leaders because they are lawyers, and not leaders.
Let me put it in your terms - Keanu Reeves movies. It's like in "The Replacements" when Gene Hackman is making Keanu into a quarterback. He teaches him that there are principles at stake (the team) higher than himself (the individual). Now do you get it? These lawyers are providing a service to our country by defending the indefensible. It is not about their popularity it is about the rule of law being above any individual. They should be thanked for their service. Like the fans did with Keanu after they won the big game in "The Replacements".
Now do you get it? Or should I refer to "The Matrix"?
Now, which liberties have been taken away from the masses?
Thiessen is trying to get his name in the news so he can sell more books.
The Post is trying to highlight conservative editorials so they can sell more papers and keep getting ad money.
Liz Chaney is trying to create an attack organization so she can get elected to office by rabid tea-baggers so she can loot whatever public funds she can get her hands on (learning from her Dad).
Ideology is always trumped by Money