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O'Reilly, Dobbs wrong that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes

March 10, 2010 12:41 am ET — 131 Comments

On the March 9 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly and former CNN host Lou Dobbs suggested that undocumented immigrants "dodge taxes," with O'Reilly asserting that the notion that they pay taxes is "crap." In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office and the Social Security Administration, undocumented immigrants pay all kinds of taxes, including individual income, sales, property, and social security taxes.

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O'Reilly: "You know it's crap" that undocumented immigrants pay taxes

From the March 9 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:

DOBBS: I think people have to understand clearly and unequivocally that this is not a substitute for border security, nor port security. We still have to survey what is happening with cargo being brought into this country. We still have responsibility for the security of our borders.

O'REILLY: Right. But it's getting better down on the southern border. I mean, that fence is working, and partially due to the economy, there are much fewer aliens. But, look, here's the big deal on this ID card: the money that would come in to the U.S. Treasury would be enormous because you can't dodge taxes anymore. You can't get paid off the books anymore --

DOBBS: Bill, what are you talking about?

O'REILLY: -- you know.

DOBBS: All of the open borders advocates -- all of the unconditional amnesty advocates say that illegal immigrants are already paying taxes.

O'REILLY: No, that's all talk. You know it's crap.

In fact, undocumented immigrants do pay taxes

CBO: "[I]mmigrants pay individual income, sales, and property taxes." In a December 2007 report detailing the impact of undocumented immigrants on the budgets of local and state governments, CBO found that "[a]ccording to available estimates," there were about "12 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States" at the time and "those immigrants pay individual income, sales, and property taxes." CBO further reported that "the IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Other researchers estimate that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes."

From the CBO report [footnotes omitted]:

According to available estimates, there are about 12 million unauthorized immigrants in the United States. Federal, state, and local governments spend public funds that benefit those immigrants, and those immigrants pay individual income, sales, and property taxes. Most available studies conclude that the unauthorized population pays less in state and local taxes than it costs state and local governments to provide services to that population. However, those estimates have significant limitations; they are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states.

CBO also stated:

Data from the Social Security Administration (SSA) and the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) suggest that some unauthorized immigrants use false or fraudulently obtained Social Security numbers (SSNs) to satisfy paperwork requirements during the hiring process and that employers use those numbers to withhold federal, state, and local income and payroll taxes for employees. Workers who do not qualify for SSNs can use Individual Tax Identification Numbers issued by the IRS to file tax returns, make payments, and apply for refunds. Although there are no reliable data on unauthorized immigrants' rate of compliance with tax laws, the IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year. Other researchers estimate that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes. For example:

The SSA assumes that about half of unauthorized immigrants pay Social Security taxes.

Several of the states whose estimates CBO reviewed used a model developed by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) to determine state and local taxes paid by unauthorized immigrants. ITEP assumes a 50 percent compliance rate for income and payroll taxes.

Researchers from the Urban Institute, the Migration Policy Institute, the Pew Hispanic Center, and the Center for Immigration Studies have assumed a 55 percent compliance rate for income, Social Security, and Medicare taxes.

As part of a larger study on migration, the Center for Comparative Immigration Studies at the University of California at San Diego conducted a survey of unauthorized immigrants and found that, in 2006, 75 percent had taxes withheld from their paychecks, filed tax returns, or both.

SSA: "Among illegal immigrants, SSA actuaries currently assume that about half actually pay social security taxes." In a December 2005 brief by the Social Security Advisory Board on immigration, the section examining the impact of immigration effects on social security finances stated that "[a]mong illegal immigrants, SSA actuaries currently assume that about half actually pay social security taxes although they are very unlikely to collect benefits."

CBPP: "[U]nauthorized immigrants paid as much as $13 billion in Social Security payroll taxes in 2007." In a November 2008 piece summarizing a report on immigration by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, senior fellow Paul N. Van de Water wrote that, according to Stephen Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, "unauthorized immigrants paid as much as $13 billion in Social Security payroll taxes in 2007. About $1 billion in benefit payments were made based on unauthorized work."

From Van de Water's November 20, 2008, post:

The presence of unauthorized (undocumented) workers in the United States also has a positive effect on the financial status of Social Security. The earnings of unauthorized workers are less likely to be reported for tax purposes than the earnings of the rest of the population and even less likely to result in future benefits, according to Social Security's chief actuary.  Although the magnitudes cannot be precisely determined, the actuary has estimated that unauthorized immigrants paid as much as $13 billion in Social Security payroll taxes in 2007.  About $1 billion in benefit payments were made based on unauthorized work (for example, survivor benefits paid to U.S. citizens who were dependents of deceased individuals who had made payments into the Social Security system while performing unauthorized work).  Thus, undocumented immigrants improved Social Security's cash flow by an estimated $12 billion in 2007.

The New York Times also reported in an April 2005 article: " 'Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes,' said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration."

Dobbs' long history of immigration misinformation

Dobbs has a long history of spreading immigration misinformation and conspiracy theories. He has routinely discussed the North American Union conspiracy theory, incorrectly claimed that undocumented immigrants drain social services and don't pay taxes, and repeatedly amplified the falsehood that undocumented immigrants are disproportionately violent. He has been an unrepentant purveyor of hateful attacks, fraudulently claiming, for example, that immigrants are spreading leprosy and seek to reconquer the southwestern United States. And in 2009, he legitimized the thoroughly debunked birther conspiracy theory concerning the authenticity of President Obama's birth certificate.

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    • Author by Andy Kreiss (March 10, 2010 1:31 am ET)
      12 1
      Somebody should start an alternative site that reports when Louser and BilldO are right. It would be a really easy, Maytag Repairman kinda gig.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 2:15 am ET)
      12 1
      Wonder why these guys never trash European immigrants who come here and overstay their visas? It's always those folks from South America who catch Bill's and Lou's flack.

      Shoot man, in my city, the white menace from Britain are openly planning to recolonize the entire East Coast! They hold Red Coat Conventions. They insist we speak proper grammar in the king's dialect. And they won't stop with their manners and polite ways until they have installed a king and imposed aristocratic rule from sea to shining sea! It's a flippin' invasion! The British are coming! The British are coming!

      Then you have the Italians with their mafia ties; the Russians with their mafia ties. Wonder how much tax those guys pay on their 'business' transactions? They clog our morgues with bodies costing us billions a year in publicly funded investigations, trials and incarcerations. Drug dealers, violent murderers, bad businessmen all of them!

      Build a wall from Maine to the Keys! Deport those euro-trash jerks.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:24 am ET)
      9 4
      In fact, if one looks at the overall taxes and fees that undocumented workers pay versus the benefits they receive, they lose out.

      Now, a huge part of their contributions go towards Social Security, which they never see, and so the federal gov't makes out well, and local and state gov'ts suffer costs that aren't reimbursed.

      But the fact remains that these folks pay all kinds of taxes, and get fewer benefits back than they pay out! Anything that omits that information is dishonest.

      So, no, O'Reilly, it's not crap that these folks pay taxes. They pay more than they get back.

      Facts. The only people who like them are those who can't be talked out of believing in them.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by subframer (March 10, 2010 6:08 am ET)
         
      Oh yeah, you're all a bunch of geniuses. Let's argue in favor of ILLEGAL immigration. That's perfect. How bout if we send a team of Al Qaeda miscreants to your home town, you'd probably throw them a parade. When a team of Mexican guys come to my house this AM to take down some dead trees, I'm gonna tell them how much I love them, 'cause I do love them. They work their asses off. But I'd also like them to be here legally. To argue that as a class illegals pay taxes is the stuff of an obvious partisan moron.

      You fools simply sit here and take contrarian positions to whatever far more successful and popular FOX pundits have to say. The only way you get traffic is by mentioning the names O'Reilly or Stossel. Must be hard to face the numbers, the reality of your own insignificance....
      Report Abuse
    • Author by bludog1 (March 10, 2010 7:50 am ET)
      3 7
      "...here's the big deal on this ID card: the money that would come in to the U.S. Treasury would be enormous because you can't dodge taxes anymore. You can't get paid off the books anymore --"
      I am not sure that I understand what all the concern is about the statement. Using CBO's information, if I am reading it right, about half of the undocumented workers are pretty much or completely "off the books." That means they are not paying taxes. The theory behind the ID card is that it prevents that. Best I can tell, that is exactly what O'R said. Hard for me to tell of Dobbs' second comment was or was not sarcasm.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 12:18 pm ET)
        4  
        Here's the topic. Care to address it?

        On the March 9 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly and former CNN host Lou Dobbs suggested that undocumented immigrants "dodge taxes," with O'Reilly asserting that the notion that they pay taxes is "crap." In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office and the Social Security Administration, undocumented immigrants pay all kinds of taxes, including individual income, sales, property, and social security taxes.

        MMFA never said ALL undocumented workers pay taxes, did they? They said that O'Reilly and Dobbs were wrong when they said that they don't pay taxes.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 12:57 pm ET)
          1 4
          if "all" is the operative word here, then o'reilly never said "all" either, did he?... and if the cbo numbers are merely estimates, then "dodge taxes" and "crap" are not inaccurate...

          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 1:25 pm ET)
            5 2
            ALL is NOT the operative word, though, troll. (And here's a clue - O'Reilly DID say "all". He said that ALL the stories that claim that undocumented workers pay taxes are crap.)

            DOBBS: All of the open borders advocates -- all of the unconditional amnesty advocates say that illegal immigrants are already paying taxes.

            O'REILLY: No, that's all talk. You know it's crap.

            O'Reilly said that it's crap that "illegal immigrants are already paying taxes." But it's not. They are. That doesn't imply that ALL of them are. He suggested that NONE of them are.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 1:30 pm ET)
              1 4
              i keep forgetting... with you, the operative word is "troll"...

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mrhebert74 (March 11, 2010 1:17 am ET)
                  2
                With you it's "owned."
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mookie von zipper (March 11, 2010 9:31 am ET)
                  1 1
                  i wouldn't go so far to say that i've "owned" anyone here, true as it may be, but i appreciate your compliment, thanks...

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by bludog1 (March 10, 2010 1:57 pm ET)
          2 3
          DD: go back and read the stuff, please. Slowly.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by bludog1 (March 10, 2010 2:30 pm ET)
            2 4
            I mean the actual words of the two guys... not the hype from OPMMfA.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:30 pm ET)
            3 2
            Thanks for providing direct documentation of a single failing on my part. Oops, you didn't do that - all you did was make a baseless personal attack after I pointed out that you didn't address the topic here. The topic isn't some ID card.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bludog1 (March 10, 2010 3:09 pm ET)
              2 3
              Once more, the exchange between the two speakers would be the source material. Not the edited header stuff provided by OPMMfA. It really isn't all that hard DD, once you take the filters out.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 5:48 pm ET)
                2 1
                You down with OPP?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 11:44 pm ET)
                2 1
                Actually, NO, the 'source material' you're cropping and promoting is NOT the topic. The person who is missing the boat here would be you.

                It's what MMFA was pointing out here -

                On the March 9 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly and former CNN host Lou Dobbs suggested that undocumented immigrants "dodge taxes," with O'Reilly asserting that the notion that they pay taxes is "crap." In fact, according to the Congressional Budget Office and the Social Security Administration, undocumented immigrants pay all kinds of taxes, including individual income, sales, property, and social security taxes.

                And, you failed to EVER address that topic. Not once.

                That's the topic here - that O'Reilly and Dobbs were both wrong with their assertions that undocumented immigrants don't pay taxes. The fact is that they actually pay MORE in taxes than they get back in benefits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, it furthers the conservative agenda to baselessly smear undocumented immigrants to claim that they don't pay taxes!
                Report Abuse
              • Author by null1fy (March 11, 2010 12:29 pm ET)
                  1
                I wonder how many accounts DD has to log in to keep giving herself thumbs up and thumbs down for her opponets?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (March 11, 2010 1:12 pm ET)
                    1
                  I don't give myself thumbs up. I don't have any extra accounts. However, it's pretty clear that there are people who target me for thumbs down, as well as sockpuppets who target rightwing posts for uprating.

                  Sorry, my opinions are generally highly-thought of here. I know, that stinks for your side. Too bad, so sad.

                  But thanks for failing to address the issues being raised, and solely making an ad hominem attack that doesn't refute anything I said. I love it when people like you dig your own graves.
                  Report Abuse
      • Author by null1fy (March 10, 2010 2:27 pm ET)
          4
        That's an interesting theory behind the ID cards. The fact of the matter is, most people who hire illegal immigrants will continue to do so, national ID card or not.

        It's the same with anything the government does: You force regulation on guns, making it harder for normal people to get them (the bad guys will get them on the black market). You force regulation on ID cards, making it harder for normal people to get a job (the bad guys will still get jobs) do you see where this is going?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 3:06 pm ET)
          4 1
          You find it hard to buy guns, do you? It's not. It's very easy. If you ever bought a gun, obviously you would know that.

          I don't know if the ID card is the answer or not. But, I am willing to consider new option when it comes to hiring of immigrant labor. The companies that hire them must be forced to carry the load of regulation and penalties. There is no other way to make any form of rules stick.

          As for taxes, most of the studies I have seen show that we get more in taxes from illegal immigrants than they receive in benefits.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by null1fy (March 10, 2010 3:18 pm ET)
              4
            Then you obviously have never purchased a handgun. What a ridiculous, ignorant assertion.

            There are already penalties for hiring illegal immigrants.

            Please refer me to these 'studies' that you cite.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 5:57 pm ET)
              1 1
              http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm

              http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/1424.html

              http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/business/19illegals.html

              http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?_r=1

              http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinion/02wed3.html?ref=opinion


              "The immigration bill before Congress would cost the federal government roughly $18 billion over the next decade, largely because of the huge costs of additional border control and law enforcement measures, according to an analysis released yesterday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

              The analysis found that over the next decade, newly legalized immigrants and guest workers would generate $48 billion in additional tax and Social Security revenues, while using about $23 billion worth of tax credits and social services. Thus, the newly legal immigrant population would contribute a net of about $26 billion over the decade, the report said."

              That is from the Congressional Budget Office if you are too lazy to look these things up for yourself.

              Also, I have purchased several handguns. Nothing difficult about it all. Unless you are a felon or have a history of domestic abuse, that is. What is it that you found so difficult? The paperwork?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by null1fy (March 11, 2010 12:28 pm ET)
                  1
                Well every time I've gone to buy a shotgun there's just a bunch of paperwork I have to fill out plus the guy is on the phone forever to verify it's OK for me to get one. Yeah, that's a pain.

                Besides, taxes wasn't the issue I pointed out, neither was that example. You went completely off-topic with your entire post. The issue that I pointed out and you dodged completely was that criminals will get their way, while regulations make it harder for law-abiding citizens to get theirs. Keep dodging, it's kind of funny in a sad sort of way.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by shelby73 (March 10, 2010 7:59 am ET)
      7 1
      Most of the problems this country has, there are simple,logical solutions. The problem is ,the powers that be don't like those solutions, so they make us think it SO complicated, so hard, or can't be done. With illegal immigration, just enforce the law! What a concept! The first time a CEO of a company was jailed for hiring illegal immigrants, it would end. If they couldn't work, they wouldn't come. For decades, migrant workers from south of the border would come to pick our crops, and when it was done, they went back. Not because they were forced to, but because they knew the job was done, and they couldn't get another. Between 1990 and 2000, 30 million illegals came into this country. This wasn't unintentional, it was planned. Corporate america loves illegal immigration. Good for business.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by wesley (March 10, 2010 8:19 am ET)
        2 11
        -- With illegal immigration, just enforce the law! -- shelby

        Sweet fancy moses...what a novel concept.

        Based on the above info from mmfa about the millions of illegal aliens that pay taxes...it should be an easy start to identify those and deport them and prosecute the employers that hire them.

        The illegal aliens didn't all get here overnight...so we can't deport them all overnight...but we can sure as hell get started.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bintx (March 10, 2010 10:02 am ET)
          7 2
          Well, the first thing we need to do is file charges on the illegal employers who hire these folks. Contrary to the popular meme promoted by Racist Dobbs, these folks come here to WORK and they work HARD. If there were no jobs, they would not come . . . no reason. The employers who hire them have been given a by in this problem. They are just as responsible for the problem as the people they hire.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Pedro2 (March 10, 2010 10:38 am ET)
               
            There are lots of self-employment jobs where they can work had repairing roofs and selling drugs.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 11:15 am ET)
            7 2
            No, the first step is empathy. Reverse the sociopathic tendency of American business to honor cheap labor above all else. Then we make the path to citizenship sensible.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 11:24 am ET)
              4 1
              Good luck trying to get those who worship at the alter of greed is good and f&^k the poor to go along. To do what you want the levers of business has got to change hands to those who do the producing from those who reap the profits.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 11:48 am ET)
                5  
                True that.

                It can be done though. Deny lucrative government contracts, tax subsidies and tax breaks to companies that pay poverty wages. You could cap the top earners in a company at 25 times the lowest earner. It builds incentive to pay higher wages from the bottom up if the top exec has to give everybody a raise in order to give himself a raise.

                But get a load of RO down thread. Blaming immigrant workers for low wages. As if they force employers to drive wages down. As if immigrants set the wage and sign the checks.



                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 12:00 pm ET)
                  1 6
                  Blaming immigrant workers? What a load of baloney. I specifically blamed the employers, can you not read? They exploit illegal immigrants, fire American citizens because they can get illegals to work for much less. If you don't think this happens, you are clueless.

                  As for your other contention to cap salaries and get government in the wage setting business, well, thankfully that is so far out left wing socialist nonsense it will never be implemented. Try hard work and setting yourself apart from your fellow employees to earn promotions to make more money, instead of bringing down someone elses salary. We reward excellence, not punish it.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
                    2  
                    It has to happen. We need progressive capitalism and if businesses don't like it, they can just stop taking advantage of their tax breaks and subsidies. They can suck it up and get used to not receiving government contracts it's that simple.

                    Kennedy did just that in the 60's to help civil rights activists win living wage campaigns, so don't try to tell me doing the right thing for America is far left socialism.

                    And don't try to tell me some CEO like Howard Schultz is 300 times more excellent than anybody else in his company.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 12:41 pm ET)
                        5
                      It has nothing to do with what somebody is arbitrarily worth. Do you think some athlete is worth 50 million a year? It's what the market will bear, it always has been. When you cap salaries you remove incentive, it's common sense.

                      I would rather work for a company with an aggressive CEO who has unlimited earnings potential and is aggressively working to expand the company, grow the company so he can make more money, because that is good for my job and my future with that company. If I work for a CEO who has his salary capped by some government regulation, then his aggressiveness turns to passiveness and his eagerness turns to apathy. Why shouldn't it? And as a result my job may be in jeopardy if that passiveness and apathy means a loss in sales and revenue.

                      I am better off working for someone who wants to make a ton of money.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 12:54 pm ET)
                        4  
                        Funny you should mention athletes and salary caps, since most professional leagues now have a salary cap and it doesn't deminish the competitive spirit and remove their incentive to perform.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 1:15 pm ET)
                            3
                          tell that to astros fans... owner drayton mcclane's idea of an incentive is a plaque in the player's clubhouse that says "what have you done today to become a champion?"... baseball doesn't have a salary cap, per se, but a luxury tax... while typically only the dodgers, yankees and red sox pay the tax by fielding an expensive payroll, uncle drayton has for years only signed mediocre free agents while clinging to the delusion that "this is our year"...

                          the nfl, meanwhile, in addition to their salary cap, has revenue sharing, which basically means that while jerry jones brings in huge dollars for the cowboys, clubs like the rams can skate by doing little or nothing to improve their lot since they can count on a cut of that cowboys jack...

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 1:19 pm ET)
                            3  
                            I was talking about the players who are affected by the salary cap, not the teams they play for.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 1:28 pm ET)
                                2
                              i would take issue with that as well... unless the player is in a contract season... it boils down to work ethic, which salary has little to do with... and ultimately, comparing the uniqueness of pro sports with the real corporate world, from both the employer and employee standpoint, is fraught with futility...

                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 12:57 pm ET)
                        5  
                        Nonsense. Up until the eighties the average CEO compensation hovered around 15 to 25 times the lowest earner in a company and there was no lack of motivation at any level.

                        Japan currently has salaries capped. Do you consider Japanese execs apathetic?

                        It has worked in the past and has to happen again in the name of fairness. History shows us that societies with such monumental economic maldistribution, like we have today, never make it very long.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:20 pm ET)
                          2 5
                          Well, if you are more concerned and feel the need to bellyache about how much those that employ you earn and are so invested in bringing them down, rather than figuring out a way to work your butt off so you can move up in your company, then you will never get anywhere and I have no interest in rewarding your moaning and groaning. It's pitiful.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 1:30 pm ET)
                            5  
                            Nice personal attack there.

                            When executives of Starbucks and MacDonalds and Wal-Mart live like the aristocracy that we fought a revolution to get out from under, it is morally repugnant that a person works a full-time job and still qualify for food stamps and medicare, etc. Anyway, family is more important to me than working 70 hours a week.

                            I just see social injustice and point it out. You can call whatever you'd like.

                            I believe in fairness.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:36 pm ET)
                              2 6
                              I believe in hard work, perseverance and making smart moral decisions. I believe in focusing on empowerment, not victimhood.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:42 pm ET)
                                2 1
                                What is moral about a CEO receiving 400x's the nearest worker? What is moral about running this country into the ground then receiving bailouts that they use to provide bonuses to their CEO's? Trickle down my arse.
                                Report Abuse
                          • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 1:33 pm ET)
                            3 1
                            Also, you spend 20-40 hours a week here posting. I'm not sure you're in a position to tell anybody about working hard.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:42 pm ET)
                              2 3
                              Trust fund dollars work hard to keep me happy. Now you can really hate me :)
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 1:47 pm ET)
                                3 1
                                "Trust fund dollars work hard to keep me happy. Now you can really hate me :)"

                                That explains everything about your inability to understand the lives of people who actually have to work for a living.

                                Get a job.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:48 pm ET)
                                  2 3
                                  I knew you'd swallow that.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 2:02 pm ET)
                                    3  
                                    Doesn't change the fact that you obviously don't work as hard as you tell everybody else to. How could you? You're always here.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 2:19 pm ET)
                                      1 5
                                      If all you have to support your argument is by using an anonymous poster on a website to say he posts too much so he doesn't work hard, well, that is not much. Sorry.

                                      If you can't refute the points, just say so. To go on about my personal life is pretty pathetic.
                                      Report Abuse
                              • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:33 pm ET)
                                3 1
                                He doesn't have trust fund dollars. He's a paid troll.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 4:16 pm ET)
                                  3 1
                                  Paid or not, the guy can't keep from launching into personal attacks when confronted with moral clarity from his opponent.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 4:18 pm ET)
                                    1 4
                                    Moral clarity, lol. You mean class warfare amidst a whinefest bellyaching about other people's money.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 4:40 pm ET)
                                      4  
                                      Still getting personal?

                                      Doesn't matter. I'm talking about social justice, economic fairness and making work pay. You know it's a disgrace that a person should work two full-time jobs and still qualify for public assistance because his earnings are below the poverty line. Meanwhile some guy who sits on his duff all day, shirking his responsibility to the people who put him on their shoulders and made him great, lives like a king.

                                      We tossed out the last king who tried to tell us he was better than us.
                                      Report Abuse
                                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 4:41 pm ET)
                                      2  
                                      well we all know where you stand morally. It is class warfare and the workers so-far are not winning and if this inequality is not fixed those CEO's will be hearing more than just bellyaching you old fart.
                                      Report Abuse
                          • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 6:05 pm ET)
                            2  
                            You are just incorrect about that righton. When the salaries of the middle class and the ruling class are this far out of whack, all we are doing is eliminating the middle class. We are instituting a class of workers and a class of owners. That is not the American way that I grew up with.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 6:09 pm ET)
                              1 3
                              First off, I don't use terms like ruling class. That implies they force people into servitude or something, and they don't. We all have our freedoms. And what do you suggest? That we take from one class and give it to another to level things out?

                              This isn't the America we grew up in. We are in a global market now, it's totally different.
                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:37 pm ET)
                        4 1
                        Capping saleries removes incentive? That is pure hogwash. If that were true the productivity of the workers should have diminished as their wages have stagnated and/or declined in the last couple of decades but just the opposite is true.
                        Thats right while the saleries of CEO's has grown exponentially the wages of those who work for wages for a living has gone down or remained the same(which in effect means diminished). The point is your scenario of high CEO saleries mean everyone shares is a trickle down fantasy the gap between rich and poor has grown wider and workers jobs security is a thing of the past. Your greed is good philosophy is not working,less and less workers are able to share in the American dream while CEO's not only receive exorbantant paybacks they do so now not only from the sweat from our labor but with our tax-dollars in the form of bailouts. You can take your trickle down and put it where the sun don't shine.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:41 pm ET)
                          1 5
                          People who complain about somebody elses salary are nothing but whining complainers who reek of jealousy.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:43 pm ET)
                            2 1
                            Yea right and you are nothing but an old angry fart
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 6:07 pm ET)
                            4  
                            I am not complaining about my salary. I make good money. But, the disparity between the CEOs and the workers in this country is undeniable. It is a fact and it continues to get worse as the working class pay stagnates and the CEO pay balloons. This is not going to work for anyone in the long run. Ask the French.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 6:10 pm ET)
                              1 5
                              So other than increased confiscation, what do you do with those who have such an unfair amount of compensation, as you see it?
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 11, 2010 12:30 pm ET)
                                1  
                                Well, I actually agree with you that it is not a simple solution. However, I do think the discrepancy between the industry leaders and the actual workers should be a concern to everyone. It's not as if history is devoid of examples of what this leads to.

                                CEO pay doubling and tripling in a generation and the working class pay scale remaining stagnant, in the end, is bad for all of us. I don't necessarily see it as a simple concern for fairness. I think the concern is that when there is a vibrant middle class/working class that can sustain a family on a single income the entire country is better off. I think we are actually the country that originally proved this. Slipping back into a feudal system just for the sake of capitalism won't help anyone except maybe bring Teddy Roosevelt back to life to smack us all around.
                                Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 11:24 am ET)
            4 4
            Agree bintx. Take away the carrot. It only drives down the price of labor and hurts the poorest among us the most. Why some liberals look the other way at this problem is beyond me, aren't they supposed to be championing the working person? Tacitly encouraging illegal immigration is the most disrespectful thing one can do to people whose wages and jobs don't need to be wiped out, American citizens.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 11:41 am ET)
              3 2
              Denigrating and relegating to second class status other workers won't solve the problem. companies just relocate to lower wage and less regulated areas. Your solution divides on the basis of nationality which has always resulted in a loss for all workers. A good example was provided by the book and movie " The Grapes of Wrath" look at how the so-called "oakies" were used against the "other" workers. The same could be said of the great migration that took place during the late 40's to the 70's of Afro-American workers to the north and midwest. They were used to break strikes for better wages and working conditions until they were seen as brothers and not enemies(by the white labor unions)of the labor movement and allowed in. Workers never gain by dividing themselves,whether it's race,gender or nationality.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 11:44 am ET)
                2 5
                Sorry, they are divided. Legal and illegal. What is your suggestion, to just wave a wand and make them legal?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 11:53 am ET)
                  3  
                  I think that was done by the Conservative champion, Raygun.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:11 pm ET)
                  2 1
                  Yes!
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:16 pm ET)
                      3
                    Great idea. So tell that to those in your community who have lost their jobs to illegals who will work for far less. Oh and tell that to those who honestly wade through the immigration process legally and honorably that those who skirt it and do not act accordingly will just have a magic wand waved to make them legal. Tell them how that is fair.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:57 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Get off that lost their jobs to illegals BS that gets no play with me. I've stated my views clearly and won't be swayed by your divide and conquer greed is good BS.
                      Funny you talking about honorable and fairness while trying to justify CEO's being paid 400x's more than their wage workers. Divide and conquer ain't working with me I stand with the workers of all nationalities.legal and/or undocumented.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by foghornleghorn (March 10, 2010 2:05 pm ET)
                        4  
                        Congero - you must remember that Tommy/right ON once posted that a paper pusher losing her job at an insurance company is equal to someone dying due to a lack of health insurance.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 2:07 pm ET)
                          5
                        You can remain ignorant to the reality if you'd like, but it doesn't change the facts. You stand with American worker is a crock of bull if you don't think many are being displaced by illegals. My god are you that naive, or do you just choose to be?

                        If I was an American worker by your definition I wouldn't want your support. No thank you.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 3:46 pm ET)
                          2  
                          No the workers would much rather listen to your fantasy of how CEO's should be paid 400x's more than they because they work harder and it will trickle down.
                          what facts are you talking about? I haaven't seen you present anything but the accusations and rants of nativist and greedy capitalist, and if that is the path you think the American worker should take it is no wonder labor finds itself in the fix we are in. With friends like you we don't need anymore enemies. Anyone who sweats and bleeds like me on the production line is my brother or sister regardless of language,nationality,gender,or race.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 3:53 pm ET)
                              2
                            Well when your brother or sister is in this country illegally and will work for a fraction of what you will work for, then don't whine about it when it happens to you. Because it is happening, even though your head is in the sand.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 4:45 pm ET)
                              2  
                              Not whinning I'am organizing and fighting for equality for all my brothers and sisters.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 4:53 pm ET)
                              1  
                              The line you use has been used before against the so-called "oakies" and against Afro-Americans only when labor saw them as allies and organized them were things made better for ALL workers. I beleive I'll adhere to those successes than your nativist drivel.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 4:59 pm ET)
                                1 2
                                They are in this country illegally, they are not legal citizens, can't you seem to get that through your head?
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 5:18 pm ET)
                                  3  
                                  So what, you fail to get through your head is that they are human beings. Workers just like me trying to find a way to feed their families just like me and just because they had to cross a border to do it makes no difference to me. If the situation were reversed I'd do the same. I won't fall prey to your us vs. them mentality, it's tired ,old and detrimental to our cause as I have pointed out. i don't see any need to carry on this conversation with you any longer,you are simply wrong and divisive.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 5:20 pm ET)
                                    1 2
                                    It's not about us vs. them, it's about immigration laws. If you think we should have no borders, which is exactly what you are saying, then fine. That's your opinion. I don't share it.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 5:33 pm ET)
                                      3  
                                      It is exactly what you are professing and as far as you sharing my opinion I shudder at the thought. No we are not coming from the same place about the only thing I'd agree with.
                                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by riverdog (March 11, 2010 10:41 am ET)
                          1
                        if you think people don't loose their jobs to illegals then you are WAY out of touch with reality. it happens every day.

                        i live in the northwest where we depend on cheap labor to get the crops off. no one else will do it. it pays well but is hard work. so there are good and bad things about illegal immigration.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by riverdog (March 11, 2010 10:41 am ET)
                          1
                        if you think people don't loose their jobs to illegals then you are WAY out of touch with reality. it happens every day.

                        i live in the northwest where we depend on cheap labor to get the crops off. no one else will do it. it pays well but is hard work. so there are good and bad things about illegal immigration.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (March 11, 2010 1:15 pm ET)
                          1  
                          If it's true that NO ONE else will do the jobs, then your assertion that they cause OTHERS to lose potential jobs is ridiculous.

                          I swear, it's hilarious when you guys sabotage your own arguments!
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 6:08 pm ET)
                      3  
                      So tell that to those in your community who have lost their jobs to illegals who will work for far less. - righton

                      So, you are not totally about empowerment and against victimhood - it just depends which side of the argument you are on.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:24 pm ET)
                  4  
                  Yes I think it is inhumane to divide and break up families. I think we need to provide a path to citenzenship. I see them as brothers sisters trying to eek out a living working as I do. Your scapegoating them hasn't worked and only obscures the real problem of all workers fighting for a livable wage. If it wasn't the undocumented the employers would find another scapegoat to divide as I have pointed out above. You also leave out the policies of American companies that move to Mexico to take advantage of the workers there. I don't see any advantage to the working class to divide themselves according to nationality. The history of such division has always worked against the workers and that is whose side I stand on and it extends across borders.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 1:27 pm ET)
                    1 3
                    If you don't want your family broken up that is totally up to you.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (March 10, 2010 4:18 pm ET)
                    3 1
                    Well put, Congero.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 5:01 pm ET)
                      3  
                      Thanks RH your heart and mind are in the right place. Don't be discouraged by the selfishness and pettiness of RO. We will either learn to live together in harmony and good will or we will perish in our own greed and selfishness. you are on the right side.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 5:08 pm ET)
                        1 3
                        I live in perfectly good harmony with plenty of good will with people who make 400 times what I make. I just don't sit around, complain, stress over and moan and groan that life is so unfair and why can't I get some of what they earn.

                        Speak for yourself, not all of us wallow in what we don't have, we get on with it.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 5:29 pm ET)
                          3 1
                          Blah blah blah! More BS from the angry old fart. next you'll be posting about how soemthing doesn't belong here. I've heard your rants and if it's not clear by now I don't believe or accept them. So you can go to hell with your selfishness.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 5:38 pm ET)
                            1 4
                            And you with your open border madness. Think it through, grow up and realize the very evident ramifications of what you dream about. Because I guarantee you it wouldn't be the naive utopia that you think it would be.

                            It would be a catastrophic nightmare. Thankfully it's fringe nutcase stuff that will never come to fruition.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 5:48 pm ET)
                              2  
                              What I'm not grown because I don't share your views? you can take your advice and put it where I told you before. Mainstream? You really want to go there? Capital is multi-national and that is the same way I see labor. Nutcase stuff? LOL! Coming from an old crab thats a compliment.
                              Report Abuse
              • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 1:22 pm ET)
                  3
                spoken like a true fan of huey freeman... i'm a riley guy, myself...

                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (March 10, 2010 1:48 pm ET)
                  2  
                  You and gangsterlicious.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 2:11 pm ET)
                      3
                    yeah, well, for different reasons!...

                    but you know what this media matters site needs?... somebody needs to throw a chair...

                    Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 11:55 am ET)
              2  
              There aren't many people that is looking the other way when it comes to Illegal immigration. Hardly anyone is tacitly encouraging people to come her illegally as well.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 12:14 pm ET)
                1 2
                When you're concerned about how it will play politically, as the Wall Street Republicans do towards employers, and as both parties do so as to not irritate the ever growing Hispanic population whose votes they court, then yes, it is a tacit encouragement for illegal immigration.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by raddave43 (March 10, 2010 12:58 pm ET)
                  2  
                  It is very simplistic to say that both parties do not want to irritate the Hispanic population by cracking down on Illegal immigration. I have known many Hispanic people who do not want people to come here illegally and they actually can't stand the ones that do come here illegally.

                  Also, it is not only Hispanics that come to this country illegally.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mookie von zipper (March 10, 2010 1:20 pm ET)
                    1 3
                    your right about some latinos here legally, to some degree, having problems with the illegals, but they are in the minority (pardon the pun)... but it's hardly simplistic about the gop and dems tip-toeing around the latino vote, it's true...

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by John Paradox (March 10, 2010 3:41 pm ET)
                       
                    I have known many Hispanic people who do not want people to come here illegally and they actually can't stand the ones that do come here illegally.

                    A friend (unfortunately deceased) who was second or third generation Hispanic was the last person I heard use the term 'wetbacks'.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by John Paradox (March 10, 2010 12:58 pm ET)
            2  
            Well, the first thing we need to do is file charges on the illegal employers who hire these folks.

            A couple of years back, Arizona passed laws that specifically targeted employers who hire UDA's, since we've had a lot of problems with 'immigration'. Here's the latest information on one case (note also it's a CIVIL case, not criminal).
            Report Abuse
        • Author by mikehuck1976 (March 10, 2010 6:02 pm ET)
          3  
          That would be a disaster for our economy. Not to mention our tax structure. It would never work for us. I am just talking selfishly here. There are still many areas of this country that need this labor. But we do need to begin to find a reasonable path to citizenship for those that want it and a reasonable way to bring them into the system. We also need to hold the employers accountable for their hiring practices.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (March 10, 2010 11:37 am ET)
        2  
        What's wrong with our workplace enforcement is that while there are raids and deportations from areas where illegal immigrants reside, the meatpacking plant just down the road and the management that employs them continues to be ignored. Law enforcement simply participates in a vicious cycle of immigrants in, immigrants out. The employers have no shortage of workers coming into replace them, and law enforcement has pretty much granted the employers immunity.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (March 10, 2010 11:45 am ET)
             
          Well said.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (March 10, 2010 11:59 am ET)
            3
          I agree pete...that's a problem.

          Sheriff Arpaio in Arizona has taken your stance...he enforces the immigration laws and catches all kind of grief.



          Report Abuse
          • Author by pete592 (March 10, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
            3  
            I know his raids on undocumented workers are well known, but has he ever arrested an illegal employer? I haven't done enough research to know if he's making a difference, or if he's just contributing to the vicious cycle by protecting business that thrive on undocumented workers.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 2:39 pm ET)
            3 1
            Yeah, Sheriff Arpaio is getting ready to get pulled off his high horse. He's getting taken down because Arizona is finally tired of his shenanigans. I don't think, given what might be coming down the pike, he should be the hero you hitch your wagon to.

            So just whose e-mails are they?

            On orders from Maricopa County, a third-party vendor has archived an unknown quantity of e-mails written by Maricopa County Sheriff's Office personnel since August 2008.

            The Sheriff's Office says the e-mails belong to them, and they should have been deleted from an emergency backup system after 28 days.

            County management says the e-mails are county property. And the messages play into two federal cases, a racial-profiling civil lawsuit against Sheriff Joe Arpaio and an FBI criminal investigation into Arpaio's office, so they refused to turn them over to the sheriff.

            A Pima County judge will try to sort out ownership in an emergency hearing Wednesday morning.

            The issue first arose in February when the Sheriff's Office claimed in the civil lawsuit that e-mails concerning Arpaio's controversial "crime-suppression operations" had been deleted from the system. The federal judge imposed sanctions against the office.

            But last week, county officials announced they had recovered the e-mails - though actually, they had been archived.

            The news caught the Sheriff's Office by surprise.

            On Friday afternoon, Sheriff's Commander Bob Rampy confronted county technology managers and demanded the e-mails be turned over to him, first by e-mail and later in person. County officials turned Rampy down.

            County lawyers filed an emergency motion for an order of protection against the Sheriff's Office with the Pima County judge, who is handling an ongoing case between the county and the sheriff over management of a county law-enforcement computer database.

            In that motion, attorney Julie Pace, who represents the county, revealed that not only were some of the e-mails subject to the racial-profiling suit, but that other, unspecified e-mails also had been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury investigating Arpaio's office. The two sets of e-mails may overlap, but county officials will not reveal the contents of the latest subpoena.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by pete592 (March 10, 2010 12:41 pm ET)
          5  
          This is one of the ways in which private corporations determine the natural order of things. They influence the government, the government influences law enforcement, law enforcement ignores the corporations. Those Big Macs, Whoppers, and buckets of KFC continue to sell at rock bottom prices, people get hooked on the fat, salt, sugar and chemicals, they get health problems, and big insurance, big medical, big pharma, and big agriculture remain happily and insanely profitable.

          Behold the magical wonders of the free (from law enforcement) market.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by SLRTX (March 10, 2010 8:32 am ET)
      5 1
      Illegal immigrants.

      Taxation without representation.

      Hmmmm... That sounds familiar. Where did I hear that before?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Pedro2 (March 10, 2010 10:39 am ET)
           
        Illegal immigrants seem to have more representation than I have.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by Old55 (March 10, 2010 8:56 am ET)
      2  
      "Crap". It's an industry term.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by DAWUSS (March 10, 2010 9:38 am ET)
         
      I thought Lou "changed his tune"
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Leftylib (March 10, 2010 9:54 am ET)
           
        Seeing a headline that says "O'Reilly, Dobbs wrong" is like seeing a headline that says "Sun is hot".
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Disputed Zone (March 10, 2010 10:18 am ET)
           
        Different audience.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Pedro2 (March 10, 2010 10:42 am ET)
           
        Lou was booted off of CNN for his views on sealing off the border.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (March 10, 2010 11:00 am ET)
        2  
        DAWUSS --

        He just went from singing the blues, picked up the tempo a bit to a 4/4 beat and now expects Fox's audience to dance to it.

        Same Lou, same song, different beat.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Pedro2 (March 10, 2010 10:36 am ET)
         
      I think we should abolish the 16th amendment and go to some form of a progressive flat tax.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by RetiredFed (March 10, 2010 11:01 am ET)
         
      I worked several years in the SSA where I along with the IRS worked together to resolve "scrambled earnings cases." Oftentimes these cases resulted from the use of legitimate SSNs by illegals to report earnings and credited withholdings i.e. FICA (Social Security taxes), federal, state and city taxes. While we were able to correct the earnings records of the legitimate SSN-owners, were not in most cases able to properly credit the remaining earnings, FICA insurance taxes paid and other withholdings to the actual wage-earning immigrant. For this reason, many otherwise eligible retirement or disabled immigrants would have been eligible to file for retirement and disability benefits, but did not. In addition, survivors of illegal immigrants in residing outside of the USA such as Mexico also failed to follow up with SSA Offices on their eligibility for survivor's benefits when one of their parents died while working in the USA and having FICA taxes withheld.
      Unclaimed FICA continue to be deposited in the FICA trust fund while unclaimed income taxes continue to be deposited in the U.S. Treasury. More on the inner workings of the SSA and my tour in the IRS as relevant topics and issues are raised in this blog. Thank you for setting up this blog so persons with first-hand experience working in the federal government can let you outsiders in on the real facts, figures and practices of public service and public programs.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by thaneb (March 10, 2010 11:16 am ET)
      1  
      With the headline, I thought this was one of BillO's rare, reasonable moments and he was correcting Dobbs. Oh well.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by BreezyBelle (March 10, 2010 12:11 pm ET)
      1  
      I hear this kind of garbage from people all the time. (people who would rather believe the rhetoric than the truth of the matter) Fact is, illegals that come here and obtain work typically pay taxes... there aren't many who will claim a large number of exemptions in order to lower the amount of tax they must pay - that would actually raise suspicion and increase the odds that they will get caught. In order to fly under the radar, they claim S/0 (most often, in my experience) and pay the highest amount of taxes... and being that they are working on stolen/forged ID's, they never file tax returns, which means that they aren't getting big checks back, either. This also means that they are contributing to Social Security and Medicare, but will never be able to get their contributions back... it's essentially "free funding" for those programs.

      The level of stupidity and ignorance that people willingly embrace never ceases to amaze me.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Lizinbklyn (March 10, 2010 3:22 pm ET)
      2 1
      If the undocumented workers JUST STOPPED PAYING TAXES . .

      Our economy would really be in a sh*thole . .
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 11:52 pm ET)
        2  
        Social Security would be in trouble too! They contribute a lot and get nothing back.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by fantagor (March 10, 2010 4:03 pm ET)
      4  
      Here is another issue I LOVE to see the right sound off on. 67% of Latinos voted for Obama, and almost every Republican who made immigration the cornerstone of their campaign LOST in 2008, because when the right talks about immigration reform, invariably they end up coming off like xenophobes and bigots who want to either kick out the "furenurs" or elitists who are content to let them stay as long as they stay as second-class citizens, and that's not a saying. Actual second-class citizens.

      Randy
      Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (March 10, 2010 6:29 pm ET)
        6
      They are here ILLEGALLY making them ILLEGAL immigrants. It's wonderful that they pay taxes but they are here ILLEGALLY and need to go back home and enter this country LEGALLY.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (March 10, 2010 11:53 pm ET)
        3 1
        But THIS article by MMFA is about how O'Reilly and Dobbs were wrong.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by james123 (March 11, 2010 9:57 am ET)
         
      I work in the construction industry, Dobb's is correct, illegals routinely work for cash under the table, a bunch of gov't estimates is meaningless
      Report Abuse

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