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Right-wing delusion: Net neutrality is government plot to control Internet content

April 05, 2010 12:01 pm ET — 72 Comments

Right-wing media have falsely claimed that the net neutrality principle supported by the Obama administration is an attempt by the government to control Internet content. In fact, net neutrality does not mean government control of content on the Internet; rather, net neutrality ensures equal and open access for consumers and producers of content and applications, and is supported by a wide array of groups including the American Civil Liberties Union and the Christian Coalition of America.

Right-wing media push baseless claim that net neutrality would allow government to censor content, squash dissent

Beck claimed net neutrality is "a way to control voices." On the January 19 edition of his Fox News show [accessed via Nexis], Glenn Beck claimed, "FCC, they want net neutrality with Obama. That's the big push. Net neutrality, it's a way to control voices." Beck previously claimed on the October 20, 2009, edition of his show that "we have Marxists that are designing and working on net neutrality -- are big believers in net neutrality, right? Gosh, it does seem that these would be the wrong people to help, you know, innovate business for it. And so what they want to do is, if I can do the third one, control content."

Limbaugh: "[N]et neutrality is the Fairness Doctrine of the Internet." On the March 16 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh claimed that "net neutrality is the Fairness Doctrine of the Internet." He added: "In the era of net neutrality ... the results of any search -- let's say you want to search abortion, or you want to search the health care bill -- they want to control what you see. They want to control what your options are. They can't really control the content; it's too massive and it's too big. What they want to try to do is limit your access to it, and have that access flavored toward whatever particular point of view the administration wants supported."

Newsmax promotes Institute for Liberty's claim that net neutrality "is a foray into content regulation which could effectively squash dissenting viewpoints." In an April 4 Newsmax email, the Institute for Liberty's Andrew Langer claimed that " 'Network Neutrality' is a code word that means something far more sinister -- 'Government Control.' " He later stated, "The irony, of course, is that their proposal wouldn't make the internet more 'neutral' " and that "[p]art and parcel of their proposal is a foray into content regulation which could effectively squash dissenting viewpoints."

Wash. Times op-ed: It's "worrisome" that FCC "seeks to regulate the flow of Internet content" through net neutrality. In a March 31 op-ed, Andrew Moylan of the National Taxpayers Union wrote: "Mr. Obama's appointees to this [Federal Communications Commission] have made no secret of their desire to exercise more control over the whole landscape of video, telephone and wireless services. One of the most worrisome elements of their agenda is their current rule-making process, better known as 'Net neutrality,' which seeks to regulate the flow of Internet content for the first time ever."

RedState: Net neutrality means "the censors of the left will even have the power to control the Internet." In a March 27 RedState post, Neil Stevens wrote, "But just as the FCC regulates content on television and radio ... so too will it be able to regulate content on the Internet should Net Neutrality be the law of the land" [emphasis in original]. From Stevens' post:

Save the Internet is innocuous looking at first. They take full advantage both major deceptions of the Net Neutrality movement. First, they make you think this is all a harmless little bit of technocracy, and not a power grab. In fact they've used that to trick some rightys into thinking that without Net Neutrality, ISPs might censor content. In fact it's just the opposite: It's only if Net Neutrality comes into effect that the censors of the left will even have the power to control the Internet.

Phase one, Net Neutrality, includes no plans to regulate content, just routing. But just as the FCC regulates content on television and radio, most famously in the case of the Janet Jackson Super Bowl show, so too will it be able to regulate content on the Internet should Net Neutrality be the law of the land.

SayAnything: Net neutrality "is really a stalking horse for those who want government control over internet content." A February 22 post on SayAnythingBlog claimed, "Net neutrality, while it sounds well and good on paper, is really a stalking horse for those who want government control over internet content."

Net neutrality prohibits Internet Service Providers from controlling access to Internet content

Contrary to claims that net neutrality allows the government to control content on the Internet, the Congressional Research Service states that net neutrality is the principle that "owners of the networks that compose and provide access to the Internet should not control how consumers lawfully use that network; and should not be able to discriminate against content provider access to that network."

Net neutrality protects consumer freedom and was "the law of the land until 2005"

Open Internet Coalition: "Net neutrality was a founding principle of the Internet, and was the law of the land until 2005." The Open Internet Coalition -- a group that includes Amazon, eBay, Google, Sony, and YouTube -- explains of net neutrality:

The principle of net neutrality is about keeping the hands of several powerful network operators -- AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast -- off the Internet, preventing them from taking steps to change the basic open nature of the Net that has led to its success. Net neutrality keeps the Internet as a free and open marketplace, so that a small number of telephone and cable monopolies can't choke off competition and innovation.

Net neutrality was a founding principle of the Internet, and was the law of the land until 2005. The courts and the regulators changed the rules in 2005 when they eliminated the nondiscrimination requirements that had applied for decades to phone service and, up to that point, to most residential Internet access. Implementing net neutrality is a return to the basic principles that make the Internet work for consumers and innovators.

Wash. Post: FCC to consider "new rules to prevent Internet providers from favoring one application over another." An October 20, 2009, Washington Post article reported: "A number of Silicon Valley titans and early technologists of the Web on Monday urged the Federal Communications Commission to move forward with new rules to prevent Internet providers from favoring one application over another. The support came as debate over the rules reached a fevered pitch, just days before the FCC is scheduled to vote on whether to begin the rule-making process." In a September 21, 2009, speech at the Brookings Institution, FCC chairman Julius "Genachowski proposed the addition of two new principles. The first would prevent Internet access providers from discriminating against particular Internet content or applications, while allowing for reasonable network management. The second principle would ensure that Internet access providers are transparent about the network management practices they implement." Genachowski stated that the FCC would "kick-off the rulemaking process next month." [Washington Post, 10/20/09; FCC release, 9/21/09]

ACLU: Net neutrality is "necessary to protect freedom and innovation on the Internet." The American Civil Liberties Union, which works to "defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country, " states that "[i]mmediate restoration of well-established Net Neutrality principles is necessary to protect freedom and innovation on the Internet."

Free Press: Claim that net neutrality means government censorship "is completely backward." Addressing myths about net neutrality, Free Press, a nonprofit organization "working to reform the media," stated that net neutrality "promotes free speech and consumer choice of content and applications":

Myth #9: "The Obama administration wants the government to become the Web's traffic cop, shutting down free speech on the Internet.

Reality: This argument is completely backward. Network Neutrality is the First Amendment of the Internet. It promotes free speech and consumer choice of content and applications. Network Neutrality ensures consumers -- not the FCC, and not ISPs -- are the ones determining how they want to use the Internet.

Without the FCC stepping in to prevent discrimination, the ISPs will be free to choose whose voices are more important on the Internet. It is simply disingenuous to suggest that by enacting rules to promote the widest dissemination of all forms of speech, the FCC is somehow going to act as a censor.

Markey: Legislation "not about government regulation of the Internet. It's about fair rules of the road for the companies that now control access." Legislation introduced by Rep. Edward Markey (D-MA) would actually limit the ability of Internet Service Providers to control content. The bill would require Internet Service Providers -- such as telephone and cable service providers -- to "not block, interfere with, discriminate against, impair, or degrade the ability of any person to use an Internet access service to access, use, send, post, receive, or offer any lawful content, application, or service through the Internet." In a March 22 Politico op-ed, Markey wrote that the legislation "stipulates that unfettered access to the Internet to offer and use content, services and applications is vital for consumers and our economy." He further wrote: "Net neutrality is not about government regulation of the Internet. It's about fair rules of the road for the companies that now control access."

Internet pioneers and leaders credit net neutrality as guiding principle in growth and competition

"Father of the internet" and pioneering scientists support net neutrality rules. In an October 15, 2009, letter to FCC chairman Julius Genachowski, Internet pioneers Vinton G. Cerf, Stephen D. Crocker, David P. Reed, Lauren Weinstein, and Daniel Lynch wrote, "We believe that the vast numbers of innovative Internet applications over the last decade are a direct consequence of an open and freely accessible Internet." The scientists also stated that the "network neutrality proposal's key principles of 'nondiscrimination' and 'transparency' are necessary components of a pro-innovation public policy agenda for this nation. ... [N]etwork neutrality proposals will help protect U.S. Internet users' choices for and freedom to access all available Internet services, worldwide." As FoxNews.com itself notes, Cerf is "often called 'the father of the Internet.' "

Internet pioneering companies support net neutrality for growth and creativity. In an October 19, 2009, letter to Genachowski, the CEOs of Amazon.com, Craigslist, Digg, eBay, Facebook, Linkedin, and Twitter, among numerous others, wrote in support of net neutrality, stating that "America's leadership in the technology space has been due, in large part, to the open Internet." From the letter:

For most of the Internet's history, FCC rules have ensured that consumers have been able to choose the content and services they want over their Internet connections. Entrepreneurs, technologists, and venture capitalists have previously been able to develop new online products and services with the guarantee of neutral, nondiscriminatory access by users, which has fueled an unprecedented era of economic growth and creativity. Existing businesses have been able to leverage the power of the Internet to develop innovative product lines, reach new consumers, and create new ways of doing business.

[...]

America's leadership in the technology space has been due, in large part, to the open Internet. We applaud your leadership in initiating a process to develop rules to ensure that the qualities that have made the Internet so successful are protected.

Berners-Lee, described by Fox News as the World Wide Web's creator, calls net neutrality vital for innovation, diversity. In a June 2006 post on his blog, Tim Berners-Lee -- who FoxNews.com noted "created a computer-based system for sharing information with colleagues around the world [World Wide Web]" -- wrote: "When I invented the Web, I didn't have to ask anyone's permission. Now, hundreds of millions of people are using it freely. I am worried that that is going end in the USA. ... I hope that Congress can protect net neutrality, so I can continue to innovate in the internet space. I want to see the explosion of innovations happening out there on the Web, so diverse and so exciting, continue unabated."

Investors who "brought us the Mac, Tweets and Internet search" support net neutrality. WashingtonPost.com telecommunications reporter Cecilia Kang noted on October 20, 2009, that the "people who invested the money that eventually brought us the Mac, Tweets and Internet search ... threw their support behind a push for proposed net neutrality rules, saying clear regulations that prevent Internet services providers from blocking the applications they help fund would spur growth in one of the brightest sectors of the economy." The investors stated in a letter that the "promise of permanently securing an open Internet will deliver consumers and innovators a perfect free market that drives investment, job creation, and consumer welfare." Kang reported that the letter's signers included investors who helped start Amazon, Sun Microsystems, Google, Skype, Hotmail, Twitter, and Yelp.

Google: "Internet has operated according to this neutrality principle since its earliest days," allowing innovation. In its explanation of net neutrality, Google wrote that the "Internet has operated according to this neutrality principle since its earliest days. Indeed, it is this neutrality that has allowed many companies, including Google, to launch, grow, and innovate. Fundamentally, net neutrality is about equal access to the Internet. In our view, the broadband carriers should not be permitted to use their market power to discriminate against competing applications or content. Just as telephone companies are not permitted to tell consumers who they can call or what they can say, broadband carriers should not be allowed to use their market power to control activity online."

Conservative groups supporting net neutrality apparently not buying conspiracy theory that government could control content

Christian Coalition: Net neutrality important for nondiscrimination, part of Internet's history of growth. The Christian Coalition states that support for net neutrality "is an issue extremely important to America's grassroots organizations and to those Americans who want to ensure the cable and phone companies controlling access to the Internet will not discriminate. ... Net Neutrality is the reason why the Internet has grown the way it has and become such an indespensible [sic] tool in our lives and our civic discourse." Jim Backlin of the Christian Coalition has further written that net neutrality is about "the ability of diverse voices and alternative views to continue to be heard."

Parents Television Council, Gun Owners of America are charter members of Free Press' Save the Internet campaign. Free Press is the coalition coordinator of Save the Internet, a group of people and organizations that "are working together to urge Congress to preserve Net Neutrality." Charter members of the group include the Christian Coalition, Gun Owners of America, and the Parents Television Council, whose founder, Brent Bozell, frequently appears on Fox News.

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    • Author by alienofwar (April 05, 2010 12:17 pm ET)
      15 1
      The principle of net neutrality is about keeping the hands of several powerful network operators -- AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast -- off the Internet


      These large corporations would ensure that right-wing corporate propaganda would dominate the internet just like it has dominated the cable/satellite/radio business. It's no wonder Limbaugh and Beck are all for it.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 05, 2010 6:07 pm ET)
        2 11
        The most important quote out of all that is from the Washington Times:
        "Mr. Obama's appointees to this [Federal Communications Commission] have made no secret of their desire to exercise more control over the whole landscape of video, telephone and wireless services."

        This statement is true, and should be considered first and foremost. It is not to make things "fair". It's about "control". If you think this is a good thing, then think about how such control can be easily changed during a Republican controlled Congress or under a Republican president. Also think about why Google wants to pull out of China.

        Don't fall for the hype, they are throwing those big corp names out there since they know that the lemmings are still under the impression that the Republicans are the party owned by the big corps.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by eweston8542983 (April 05, 2010 6:25 pm ET)
          5 1
          I'd be a bit careful about accepting political info from the "Moony Times"

          Given their cynical view of corporate monies publicly displayed recently, they may lose a few corporate monybags, but I see no evidence that they're any less owned by this population. One GOP congress critter expressed the theme well in his desire to block any Supreme Court nominie shown to support "the little guy."

          Support public campaign financing to see any effective change here.
          Democrats can be bought as well and given the recent SC ruling on coorporate campaign contributions. I expect to see a few more bought in the near future.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by mrhebert74 (April 05, 2010 7:47 pm ET)
          3  
          It is not to make things "fair". It's about "control".
          That's right. The desire to prevent internet companies from favoring or disfavoring content of their choice is about control.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mrhebert74 (April 05, 2010 7:49 pm ET)
            1  
            Plus also don't be scared when the lefties shout Verizon. You WANT Verizon to decide what you can and can't see on the internet, and how fast or slow it loads. How could this authority possibly lead to abuses?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by dusteemusic (April 05, 2010 11:12 pm ET)
               
            That's exactly right. How could so many people get so much wrong?

            Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (April 06, 2010 12:52 pm ET)
          2 1
          If you're quoting the Washing Times then you're an idiot, and are brainwashed beyond all salvation. The drivel you posted is absurd on it's face, neither requires nor warrants a response, and if you can't see that they you are a fool.

          Net neutrality is an inherent good to anyone who understands what the first ammendment of the constitution really stands for.

          ----------------------------------------------------------
          IMHO
          Report Abuse
      • Author by dswynne (April 06, 2010 2:31 am ET)
           
        It's funny that the only people who are pushing for "net neutrality" are anti-free speech like the Center for a Free Press, a Marxist outfit.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 10:14 am ET)
        1 4
        "These large corporations would ensure that right-wing corporate propaganda would dominate the internet just like it has dominated the cable/satellite/radio business. It's no wonder Limbaugh and Beck are all for it."

        That is a ridiculously dumb comment. You mean how the useless mainstream media dominates the networks? I suppose that's okay, though, right? What is "right wing corporate propaganda"? When was the last time you looked at large donors of the democrat party vs large donors of the republican party?
        Have those companies done anything yet to make you think that they will "ensure that right wing...would dominate the internet"? What could possibly be stopping them from dominating now if they wanted to do this? What makes you think they will in the future?
        It is unbelievable how dense people can be when it comes to this administration.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (April 06, 2010 3:10 pm ET)
           
        to the right wing having a few giant media conglomerates like clear channel control the content of the airwaves is free speech
        Report Abuse
    • Author by dkylep (April 05, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
      12 1
      Another textbook response by the nuts.

      "What's that you say? You think that sign is white?!? Well, we're here to tell you that sign is, in reality, black! Only commies and nazis and evil people see that sign as white!"

      Politicians in general lie, but the current right-wing talking heads can't seem to do anything else. It's getting to the point where it's almost laughably comic, like they're some sort of B-movie mastermind villian, laughing like Dr. Evil in some hidden lair somewhere.

      I mean, seriously, the out and out denial of reality is simply getting out of hand. It's laughable, but it's also terribly frightening, to see how truly ignorant some people are, to believe the tripe that spews from people like Beck, Limbaugh, and the other talking heads.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by historygeek001 (April 05, 2010 1:59 pm ET)
        6  
        "All I have is one, simple request. I want sharks with freakin' laser beams attached to their heads!"
        Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 05, 2010 6:10 pm ET)
        1 9
        "Tripe"? If you can prove this point, please do.

        What is truly laughable is just how duped the Obamazombies are. If you were to now listen to one of Bammie's campaign speeches, you would ask yourself, "where did that guy go?".
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (April 05, 2010 6:20 pm ET)
          5 5
          MMFA provides plenty of evidence of the tripe and nonsense every week.

          If you were really interested in seeing examples of that stuff, you could easily find it on your own. Which tells us that you aren't really interested in that - you were only trying to throw out a bogus accusation implying that someone else had made a baseless claim! Not sure why you would do that on a site that documents that tripe - that was pretty foolish on your part!

          And anyone who makes personal attacks like you do is simply a troll who's not trying to participate in a fair and reasonable debate, but rather someone who wants to inflame and derail the conversation. Please don't feed the troll post.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 05, 2010 6:45 pm ET)
            3 10
            This site doesn't document anything but what the owners perceive to be out of line with their progressive beliefs. Doesn't make it "tripe". I have not seen this site applaud Beck for his patriotism or Limbaugh for his support of the troops, but I do see some Olbermann schmoozing over the just about every dopey comment he makes or his hate-filled "tripe" at the end of every one of his shows.
            "Fair and reasonable debate"? That is even more laughable, since every time I have come in here to make valid arguments I get accused of all sorts of things that aren't very nice. If the debate in here is so balanced, why do I not see any disagreements being discussed?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (April 05, 2010 6:54 pm ET)
              4 4
              Fair and reasonable debate is laughable from DellDollySue, but not from many others. They aren't afraid of it.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (April 05, 2010 11:36 pm ET)
                6 1
                Liar. You're the one who is the most egregious offender here, pretending that you want a debate, but clearly not actually participating in a fair debate hardly ever.

                And you don't like that I call you on that every day. It frustrates you, and so you make baseless personal attack accusations against me all the time.

                Stop doing that, and debate can happen. You're not the victim here. You're the offender here.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by bludog1 (April 06, 2010 7:55 am ET)
                3 3
                Have been away for a few days and just now returning to the boards. Seems as though nothing has changed: DD's line of attack remains unchanged; only the names of the targets changes. Oh well!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 11:24 am ET)
                  2 4
                  The kicker is Dolly scolding ANYONE for not "trying to participate in a fair and reasonable debate", when she never has, not once. I have asked her repeatedly to show us just one example of her EVER having done so on this website, and she can't.

                  Hypocrite extraordinare'
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by mrhebert74 (April 05, 2010 8:05 pm ET)
              5 1
              If the debate in here is so balanced, why do I not see any disagreements being discussed?
              Because this site is home to the dumbest wingnuts anywhere. You people don't "debate," you vomit logical fallacies in defense of bigotry, oligarchy, and the bearing of false witness.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (April 05, 2010 11:34 pm ET)
              6 2
              Hey, you can PRETEND you're the victim here, but we all know that's not true.

              A convicted criminal is NOT the victim of the DA who prosecuted him, or the Judge who sentences him. And you're not the victim of this site. If you MADE valid arguments, you'd get reasoned and fair debate in return.

              I never said that the debates that go on here ARE balanced, you doofus. I said that you're not willing to participate in one!

              This site documents conservative misinformation in the media that furthers the conservative agenda. They do a very fair and balanced job of that.

              The REASON it's "tripe"? Because it poisons our national discourse. We have to waste time debunking that toxic nonsense instead of debating the actual issues that confront our country today and our descendents tomorrow!

              This is NOT about differing opinions. EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. In this instance, there's no evidence that supports the conspiracy theory that Net Neutrality is an effort to control the content on the Internet.

              MMFA objects to lies, distortions, and omission of relevant info because that disinformation is deleterious to the debate our country should have on issues facing us.

              And you, pretty clearly, aren't interested in participating in a fair and reasonable debate AS YOU KEEP PROVING!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by trelan1701 (April 06, 2010 1:35 am ET)
              6 1
              You can't discuss a disagreement when one side (yours) has a marked tendency to lie about just about anything.

              How can you discuss health reform when one side (yours)spits out things like "death panels" and "kill grandma/veterans/children"?

              How do you discuss the filibuster when one side (yours) abuses it more than any time in history but yet just a few years ago considered it "treason" to filibuster?

              How do you discuss ANYTHING when one side (yours) has declared that liberals are literally trying to destroy the country?

              How do you discuss the recession when one side (yours) swears Obama personally caused it and the it's only gotten worse in the last year. This despite the evidence of slowed and then reversed job loss (ala the "bikini chart")?

              How do you discuss political terrorism when one side (yours) compares throwing an egg to cutting a gas line/throwing bricks/threatening to murder the children of politicians/mailing white powder etc. and complain about how BOTH sides are out of control?

              Let me know how we can have a fair and balanced conversation when one side (yours) refuses to face reality and instead makes up whatever will scare people the most.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 11:23 am ET)
                1 4
                "a marked tendency to lie". Prove it.

                A gov't official making decisions on your health care unheard of. It is in the bill that rationing care is one way they are going to pay for it. If they're rationing care, who do you think will get denied first? You, or granny who is retired and no longer contributes to Obama's society?

                Filibusters are normally used by the minority party. The Republicans have been the minority party more often than Dems, since the dems like to lie to the people and promise them goodies and then not following through. The dems threatened reconciliation, yet they considered it "treasonous" just a few years ago when the Reps used the same strategy.

                Nobody said "liberals are trying to destroy the country". Obama's trying to destroy the country, and the liberals are finally starting to smarten up about their "messiah". What happened to you?

                Considering the argument about the recession, that is a far too in depth and complicated discussion for this forum. To try to explain what happened and how Obama is feeding the fire instead of working to end it will take far too long.

                Please, you know you have done more than throw eggs. Do I need to provide links?

                The difference is that my side of the conversation is based on facts, and yours is based on a distortion of same facts. We are not trying to scare people, we don't care about what you do as long as it is within the laws, we care about what those whom we voted to represent us do, and when they screw up we will make our dissent be known. We all have that right.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by peace4all (April 06, 2010 2:22 pm ET)
                  1  
                  Considering the argument about the recession, that is a far too in depth and complicated discussion for this forum. To try to explain what happened and how Obama is feeding the fire instead of working to end it will take far too long.
                  by doughpro1604643

                  typical wingnut argument. i don't have time to prove what i say so your just gonna have to trust that i'm smarter than all of you. sorry dude, i just can't trust anyone who still drags their knuckles along the ground as being smart.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 10:57 pm ET)
                     
                  "a marked tendency to lie". Prove it.


                  From Scott Brown to Betsy McCaughey to Sarah(can't pick just one lie)Palin to John McCainto Rush Limbaugh to Michelle Bachmann to Glenn Beck, they all spend a LOT of time telling untruths.
                  It is in the bill that rationing care is one way they are going to pay for it.

                  Where exactly in the bill is this rationing? I've read the bill and I sure can't find it.
                  Filibusters are normally used by the minority party. The Republicans have been the minority party more often than Dems, since the dems like to lie to the people and promise them goodies and then not following through.


                  No one is talking about the numbers of total filibuster threats, which is the only way your comment about the GOP being the minority more often would be relevant. No, what people are talking about is filibuster threats by year and how they more than doubled in the 2007-2008 session as compared to the sessions before that one. This session seems to be a repeat of the last in total count.

                  Nobody said "liberals are trying to destroy the country".
                  Have you really never listened to Glenn Beck?
                  Obama's trying to destroy the country, and the liberals are finally starting to smarten up about their "messiah". What happened to you?
                  Far from destroying the country, Obama has brought us back from the edge and makes more progress everyday.
                  Considering the argument about the recession, that is a far too in depth and complicated discussion for this forum. To try to explain what happened and how Obama is feeding the fire instead of working to end it will take far too long.
                  So all of the evidence that things are turning around and things are improving is just an illusion? Unemployment has dropped a bit, the Dow is coming back up, we had a net gain in jobs three months of the last five, etc.

                  Please, you know you have done more than throw eggs. Do I need to provide links?
                  Yes.

                  The difference is that my side of the conversation is based on facts,
                  No, it's not actually. Your side is based on soundbites and outright lies, like death panels, rationing, and this latest nonsense that net neutrality constitutes a government takeover of the internet when in fact it is an effort to keep the internet free of censoring by providers.
                  and yours is based on a distortion of same facts.
                  Prove it.
                  We are not trying to scare people, we don't care about what you do as long as it is within the laws, we care about what those whom we voted to represent us do, and when they screw up we will make our dissent be known. We all have that right.
                  You have the right to dissent. You do not have the right to have a little mini kristallnacht and through bricks through a bunch of windows, or to threaten people with shotguns.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 2:21 pm ET)
            1  
            And anyone who makes personal attacks like you do is simply a troll


            You are doing it again. You aren't attacking the content, you are attacking the person. It won't move the debate forward and will derail the thread.

            And doughpro, I'll give you an example of tripe (noun: nonsensical talk or writing)
            Glenn Beck on Rockefeller Center and Symbolism

            Report Abuse
        • Author by captain_mike (April 05, 2010 8:36 pm ET)
          6  
          It needs no proof, it is self evident. To anyone who knows how to do more than get on "the interweb" to read Palin's latest lies or fire up "the email machine" to forward around a few stupid jokes or cute kitty pictures, it is well known that net-neutrality benefits the average internet user while a lack of same only benefits a few of the largest, richest and most powerful media conglomerates. What needs proof is the latest in an apparently never ending string of the right wing talking heads pushing their agenda intended to disenfranchise the average American while empowering (and profiting) a few large corporations.

          What is laughable is that you think it somehow relates to Obama and his policies. Net-neutrality is an issue that has been discussed and understood by technically savvy folks for longer than Obama has been a part of the national political scene. I knew WHAT net-neutrality is and WHY it is an important concept that we need in order to maintain the free and unfettered exchange of information that makes the internet so important to modern society, culture and entertainment long before I, or anyone else outside of Illinois or Harvard Law, really knew anything about Barack Obama.

          Without net-neutrality the internet becomes another tool of the richest and most powerful... which like it or not is exactly what you are being.

          You really should stop buying into everything and anything your limited and untrustworthy sources ram down your throat before they really do choke you on your own stupidity.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by dswynne (April 06, 2010 2:35 am ET)
               
            Hey, the fact that you're posting here debunks your point. NO ONE is in danger of being censored. But, if you want regulation over the Internet, remember this: Democrats won't always have the White House.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by pros2pros2940 (April 05, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
      7  
      Yep....these boneheads suffer from a brain iversion : up is down; down is up; white is black; black is white; war is peace; clear skies legislation actually rolls back environmental regs; NCLB actually leaves children behind; cutting taxes means more gov't revenue, etc.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by rtejon (April 05, 2010 12:45 pm ET)
      2  
      You may judge for yourself how much Neil Stevens knows what he's talking about.

      Seriously, why would these guys trust Comcast more than the government? They'll have no one but themselves to blame if they're not rewarded for their useful idiocy.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 05, 2010 6:36 pm ET)
          8
        Why would you trust the gov't more than a company who knows that if they screw up bad enough that they will go out of business?


        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (April 05, 2010 11:41 pm ET)
          4 1
          Because libertarian political philosophy is not a successful plan. Anarchy doesn't work. Giving companies enough rope to hang us all, and they'll do it without giving it a second thought.

          But in fact Net Neutrality doesn't GIVE the gov't control. Gov't involvement actually PROTECTS the consumer from tyranny by the businesses. As MMFA said above,

          Contrary to claims that net neutrality allows the government to control content on the Internet, the Congressional Research Service states that net neutrality is the principle that "owners of the networks that compose and provide access to the Internet should not control how consumers lawfully use that network; and should not be able to discriminate against content provider access to that network."
          Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (April 05, 2010 11:42 pm ET)
          4 1
          And see, this kind of comment is NOT one that would come from someone who's interested in participating in a fair and reasonable debate! You're making strawman arguments and using logical fallacies and distorting reality in an effort to confuse and mislead.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (April 06, 2010 2:53 pm ET)
          2  
          Yeah, like the way Exxon went out of business when they spilled millions of gallons of crude in the ocean.

          Don't kid yourself. The bottom line is that government is accountable us, corporations are not. They are not accountable to us for the simple reason that consumerism is in no way democratic.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by blueline99 (April 05, 2010 1:15 pm ET)
      7 3
      The argument for and against Net Neutrality is a fair argument... but of course these blowhards aren't taking either side, they invent one of their own that is intended to scare people.

      Those who are against Net Neutrality are of course the carriers, because they are looking for new ways to increase their revenues and offering new services and the Net Neutrality Act would pretty much squash those plans.

      The others group that's against this are the network manufacturers... they are the ones who envision making the expensive new equipment that would allow "premium" services.

      Personally I'm not totally against this because 90% of internet traffic is junk and it's a shame that the popular services are hampered by all the viruses, trojans and junk mail that takes up a lot of the bandwidth.. but perhaps there are better ways to address that problem than given privileged companies priority internet service.

      To me, it's essentially like toll roads in southern California... not sure it's really a good idea and only makes sense in the worst conditions.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by OmegaHunter (April 05, 2010 2:24 pm ET)
        9  
        I know you're trying to be fair to the conservative argument here but this:

        "Personally I'm not totally against this because 90% of internet traffic is junk and it's a shame that the popular services are hampered by all the viruses, trojans and junk mail that takes up a lot of the bandwidth"

        sounds a lot like Ted Stevens's infamous "series of tubes" argument.

        The only way those popular sites would be hampered by viruses or trojans would be if they were present on that site. The presence of stupid websites or malware on the internet does not slow down or hamper the internet as a whole.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by blueline99 (April 05, 2010 2:54 pm ET)
          3 1
          My point was that a lot of the traffic on the internet is crap and its given the same priority as real traffic.

          Cisco and other manufactures have the ability to give higher priority to "known good" traffic but only if standards are set that would allow end points to tag traffic (like an MPLS network does now)

          In the long run, this may be a direction that the internet goes, but for now there's no fair way to determine who gets priority and why, so I fully support the net neutrality act...

          It's just comical that the right's knee jerk reaction is not only to be against it, but to come up with some BS argument instead of at least trying to argue against it fairly.

          The companies that are against the net neutrality act are the same companies that helped build the internet. Being against it, doesn't make you an evil company... but the GOP response is comical because its not even set in reality.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by fantagor (April 05, 2010 3:50 pm ET)
            5  
            But who is going to determine which traffic is "good" and which is "bad"? You? Comcast? ME?

            That's one hell of a slippery slope your on. Best to flee it for safer, flatter ground where ALL carriers and content are equal.

            Randy
            Report Abuse
            • Author by blueline99 (April 05, 2010 4:08 pm ET)
              1 1
              I agree... the decisions will most likely be made by those who can afford to pay it... and if that's the case, I wouldn't support it.

              Data capacity cannot continue without limits and the cost for supporting the infrastructure has its limits as well, so at some point we will have to face these issues, but I think the purpose of Net Neutrality is a good one.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by GerryGleason (April 05, 2010 4:09 pm ET)
               
            This has nothing to do with traffic volumes and everything to do with attempting to "enclose" parts of the "new internet" which is a broken internet if you actually listen to the people who know. Many of them conveniently quoted above.

            The right-wing parrots are not nuts, they are doing what they are paid to do. The net-monopolists have lost the argument and like the much of the health care industry around the health care reform, they will use any tactic to try to win. It doesn't matter that what they say is laughable false, it muddies the waters and they continue to make their claims as if there were some foundation to them.

            SPAM has little to do with network bandwidth and everything to do with attention. There is more than enough bandwidth for all the SPAM in the world to be just a drop in a very large bucket. The time we waste on it is not insignificant. The worst SPAM is not mass-mailed scams and offers, but the trolls, real people who engage in politics as a war with no rules.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by dswynne (April 06, 2010 2:37 am ET)
           
        I'm against the concept of Net Neutrality because it leads to censorship. Why do you think regular radio (baring talk radio on the AM) just sucks?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Brian in FL (April 05, 2010 1:52 pm ET)
      12  
      The right-wing has so brainwashed their radical tea-party base, it has become easy to turn every single issue is a new plot by the Obama White House to control us. You can literally just pick the issue and insert "is a government takeover" after it, and you have the latest Republican talking point.

      That is the same reason why we're seeing the huge rise in right-wing militia groups over the past year. The Republican brainwashing and fearmongering is working as planned. Many of these people are completely convinced the government is their enemy and is out to get them.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (April 05, 2010 3:30 pm ET)
      12  
      What a load of crap. These neo-fascist righties, Beck and friends, won't be happy until there is a price tag attached to every aspect of our lives. That's what this is about, this is what the right wants, it's about corporate profit and dominance. It's about strangling out competition by making bandwidth inaccessible for the little guy.

      Everything is pay to play for these guys. Public needs and freedom of choice be d@$*ed.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 11:33 am ET)
          2
        How are they going to accomplish "making bandwidth inaccessible for the little guy"?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (April 06, 2010 2:12 pm ET)
          1  
          Are you pretending that giving content control to giant telecoms is a better idea than leaving the internet free and open? Are you pretending that giving control to telecoms will be good for the people?
          Report Abuse
        • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 11:08 pm ET)
             
          How are they going to accomplish "making bandwidth inaccessible for the little guy"?

          By allowing carriers to charge for allowing the content through - big sites can afford that, little ones probably can't. It could also mean charging users more for unrestricted service thus pricing the little guys out of the free internet and into the censored one. Those are just two examples of what could happen.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by egb (April 05, 2010 8:11 pm ET)
        7
      It's really a plot to gain government control of the Internet. Then the Internet can be taxed, filtered and licensed, all to the benefit of the poor who will received the benefits as government handouts.

      Why anyone would want the same organization that runs Amtrak and the Post Office to run the Internet is a mystery. It must reflect on the failed public education system we have. Does anyone know why the FCC even exists?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by albertsenj (April 06, 2010 1:35 am ET)
        2  
        Well, despite the fact that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to net neutrality, I'll answer your question about the FCC.

        One of the main functions of the FCC is to protect licensed broadcast frequencies. The FCC guarantees that the licensee is the ONLY party allowed to broadcast on their frequency. Without that, any station (even your local Fox affiliate) might find that their signal is being overridden by someone else using their frequency.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (April 06, 2010 3:18 pm ET)
           
        it must be comforting to live in a world of conspiracy theories. then you can wrap up everthing in a neat little bow and the world will make sense to you. but please take note. the government will NOT control the internet.you do realize that the internet is international and most of its users do not live in the u.s.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by draftedin68 (April 05, 2010 8:43 pm ET)
      2  
      The paper that can't wrap fish

      If the U.S. Government would have tightly controlled newsprint production and distribution in 1910, it would have been like doing anything to limit net neutrality in 2010.

      Today's byteosphere is yesteryear's fish wrapper.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by stanlee18048 (April 05, 2010 9:10 pm ET)
      7  
      Corporate coalitions like trade groups and lobbying groups are doing the very thing that right wing nuts are afraid government will do, they're trying to take control over information and everything else.

      Republicans want more cops for common criminals on the street who want your wallet, but none for people who take your home, health insurance and life savings.

      Corporate crimes are non existent to Rethugs
      Report Abuse
      • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 11:35 am ET)
          4
        Better take another look at who has the biggest lobbying groups, and who they support. You may be surprised, and you may come away a little smarter.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 11:10 pm ET)
             
          You wanna maybe back that up with some sort of, I don't know, evidence or something?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Slow Cowboy (April 05, 2010 9:40 pm ET)
        7
      "Right-wing delusion: Net neutrality is government plot to control Internet content"

      What else is it?

      It is a limitation on the market place of ideas. It regulates what people can say by the guise of neutrality. Doesn't matter if anyone wants to take it over completely or not...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by trelan1701 (April 06, 2010 1:21 am ET)
        6  
        If I tell you "Hey, you can't keep people from walking down that road." Am I now in control of the road? Am I in ANY way restricting who can walk down that road? No, I am simply not allowing YOU to control who walks down the road.

        By this wing nut logic, any time we kept the Soviet Union from taking control of a country, we became the complete and total overlords of that country. Last time I looked, we didn't have colonies.

        Another way of putting conservative stupidity into context: If I force you to allow someone to go into your house and sit down, I now own your house.

        Does that clear it up for you at all?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 11:42 am ET)
            3
          Your moonbat logic makes no sense.
          What authority do you have to tell me that I can't keep people from walking down the road? Do you own the road? Do you own me? What if I owned the road? What right do you have to restrict me from doing anything? If people don't like the way I rule the road, they can take another road. In which case, I will probably get lonely and go broke (if it's a toll road) and if I have any shred of common decency, I will change my ways and start allowing people back to my road.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by ilikeike (April 06, 2010 3:23 pm ET)
               
            you cannot be serious. of course society has a right to restrict you from doing many bthings. thats is called law.it also has the right to restrict certain corporations from restricting peoples free access to the net
            Report Abuse
      • Author by albertsenj (April 06, 2010 1:39 am ET)
        5  
        Let me make this clear. Without net neutrality your internet provider would be allowed to restrict what could do or see on the internet. They could (and likely would) provide access only to the entities that paid them the most for access to your computer.

        Since few (if any) folks have access to more than one ISP (internet service provider) where you connect will determine what you get to see.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by dswynne (April 06, 2010 2:42 am ET)
             
          Bullocks. That's a strawman argument to justify regulating something that doesn't need regulating. If the gov't wants net neutrality, they should force these ISPs to have flat internet rates for wireless. That'll open up the market wide enough to allow anyone to afford the internet beyond just having a desktop machine. For access to a wireless modem, you can be charged out the wazoo on downloading content alone. No, it's about taxation, that's what.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by ilikeike (April 06, 2010 3:21 pm ET)
           
        no it ensures that noone can regulate what people can say
        Report Abuse
    • Author by mkraker (April 06, 2010 6:08 am ET)
      1  
      It's not 'delusion' -- it's a deliberate lie to support their corporate masters.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by gyles19 (April 06, 2010 9:29 am ET)
         
      Under current rules (since 2005, thanks to the pro-business courts and republican deregulation) it is legal for your telco/cable company to block or limit your access to legal internet-based sites and services. We've all heard how the Communist Chinese government censors the internet to block their citizens' access to outside information and services. Under current US rules, the right to censor/limit/degrade access to sites and services is granted to your telco/cable company. Comcast is allowed to block/degrade service you pay fore if you're using an application like bittorrent. ISPs have gotten into hot water with their customers for blocking access to websites the company disagrees with, for altering DNS records to redirect users to company-preferred search engines, etc. The net neutrality proposal would prevent telcos/cable companies from blocking/degrading the internet access you're paying for.

      When you buy an internet connection, you're paying for a specific download/upload speed package. So, for example, a company will install a connection of a particular size for a neighborhood. Say the pipe they installed will support a total of 10 megabits/sec. They then turn around and subscribe 20 households for that line, promising each of them 3 mbs. 20*3=60mbs. If all 20 households decide to watch a live video stream of a political speech online, none of them will get the bandwidth they're paying for. In fact, that line will only support 3 or 4 users at a time without those users experiencing degraded service.

      Bittorrent is a download protocol that provides a way to efficiently utilitize one's connection capacity and get the best download speed possible, especially for large files such as linux ISO images. Comcast has been in hot water for blocking/degrading our ability to use bittorrent protocol simply because it so exposes how hard they over-subscribe their services.

      We had network neutrality by default, back when the only way for residential customers to access the internet was via dial-up modem over a regulated phone line. The big land-line telcos were not allowed to limit/block access like the wireless, cable, and land-based telcos are today, thanks to the 2005 deregulation.

      We need net neutrality restored! We have internet censorship now which solely benefits the big cable/telco companies at our expense.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by NBD09 (April 06, 2010 11:51 am ET)
         
      Haha, the PTC is advocating the Free Press campaign!? This is the group that complains about shooting video games and Gossip Girl!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by okiepoli (April 06, 2010 12:27 pm ET)
         
      Although I doubt that you will get many right-wingers upset with the story about how Verizon used its control over the network to block pro-choice messages, or how AT&T used its control over the network to mute criticism of Pres. Bush by Eddie Vedder, you might get them more interested in learning if you hit them where they live:

      Comcast Blocks Bible From Being Uploaded

      and just to gain their trust, it’s from the 'fair & balanced' network.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by NiceguyEddie (April 06, 2010 12:35 pm ET)
      3  
      These people are sofa king stupid.

      NOT allowing CORPORATIONS and FOR-PROFIT entities to control your access, forcing them to give EQUAL ACCESS to EVERYONE, somehow means that the GOVERNMENT IS CONTROLLING WHAT PEOPLE SEE.

      How do you come up with that?!

      That's just f*--ing carzy! Absolutely insane!

      What the hell is wrong with these people?!

      ------------------------------------------------
      Answer: The are sofa king stupid!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by doughpro1604643 (April 06, 2010 1:18 pm ET)
        3
      I remember a time when I would do a search of, Rush Limbaugh for example, and the first page would be links to MMFA articles, MoveOn articles, and worthless blogs. Is it not logical to think that the first thing that should come up is Limbaugh's home page?
      It works now, it's accurate, so what is this administration so paranoid about?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by n'est-ce pas (April 06, 2010 2:10 pm ET)
        2  
        ...wha?
        You don't know what this article is about, do you? Hint: it's got nothing to do with search engines.
        Jeebus.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by OmegaHunter (April 06, 2010 3:27 pm ET)
        2  
        Congratulations on proving that you don't know what net neutrality while railing against it.

        Net neutrality would mean that you pay for access to the internet and the various webmasters pay for their domain use and everyone can connect to everyone else freely. This is how the internet that you know always was until 2005.

        Without net neutrality broadband providers could interject in any number of ways.

        The most obvious way is allowing them to decide what sites you can or cannot visit. This is even more obvious when you consider they may want to block access to competitors websites.

        Another possibility would be for the ISPs to charge premiums to websites to allow them to run as fast as possible. If the website doesn't or can't pay then access to their site will be slower than one that does.

        And how about an example of something that's happened since 2005 you ask?

        In 2006 Comcast began forging and sending out TCP RST packets to disrupt P2P file-sharing among its customers. Basically they send out a TCP reset that is forged to look like it is coming from the "host" end of the torrent rather than Comcast itself. This effectively prevents the file from being shared.

        Their forged packets even prevented some users from accessing Google.

        Even today it seems that Comcast actively limits badwidth to customers using P2P file sharing applications.

        The FCC ordered Comcast to end this practice and Comcast sued the FCC. The FCC initially won but unfortunately the US Court of Appeals overturned it today.

        If net neutrality was law Comcast couldn't do this because it would be illegal.

        Do you know why Beck and company oppose net neutrality? Because Republicans in Congress do.

        Do you know why Republicans in Congress oppose net neutrality? Because the huge ISPs do.

        Do you know why the ISPs oppose net neutrality? Because it gives them more control over your access to the internet and gives them new possible ways of making revenue off of offering the same thing they did before.

        You want a laugh? Here is former Senator Ted Stevens (R-AK) arguing against net neutrality (you know, the "series of tubes" speech):

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f99PcP0aFNE

        His ENTIRE argument is that of an old man that has absolutely no idea how the internet or access to it works. He believes (or at least claims to) that the more stuff that is on the internet the more it clogs it up, "The internet is not something you just dump something on; it's not a big truck. It's...it's a SERIES OF TUBES!"

        He further illustrates how little he knows by claiming that it took hours for an email to get to him because the internet was too congested.

        Then there's Beck's abusrd "Requiring full, equal, non-discriminatory access to the whole internet is a way for the government to control it."

        Those are the opponents of net neutrality. Those are the idiots you get you arguments from.

        Either learn what you're talking about first or don't say anything at all.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by potmo (April 06, 2010 3:36 pm ET)
         
      This is what makes true political progress so difficult. The well-financed wing nuts completely twist the truth around at the behest of their corporate masters so as to be able to promote an agenda which is against the interests of almost everyone but very much in the interests of the wealthy elite. Their brainwashed audience hears what they want to hear, and rather than look at the actual context of the legislation, quote and retweet the actual misinformation. In other words, as proof that God exists, I give you the Bible.

      How do you restrict the free dissemination of information, something which is obviously overwhelmingly popular among people of all political persuasions? By claiming repeatedlly that laws restricting a select few companies from controlling content, are actually laws wit that very agenda.

      This tactic works great, since their audience would rather wave flags, thump bibles and bang the war drums then actually critically review the information that is presented to them.

      To quote Boehner, "Have you read the bill???..."
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Tbone Slickens (April 06, 2010 6:46 pm ET)
         
      Barry just got a smack on the nose.

      net neutrality ensures equal and open access for consumers and producers of content and applications,


      What do you find not equal or open for consumers now?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by roundhouse (April 06, 2010 7:14 pm ET)
        2  


        The democratization of information is what the internet has brought us and is what net neutrality will preserve. Opposing net neutrality is anti-American in that it puts the free-flow of information under the control a few economic elites instead of we the people.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 11:21 pm ET)
        1  
        What do you find not equal or open for consumers now?
        did you not read this
        In 2006 Comcast began forging and sending out TCP RST packets to disrupt P2P file-sharing among its customers. Basically they send out a TCP reset that is forged to look like it is coming from the "host" end of the torrent rather than Comcast itself. This effectively prevents the file from being shared.

        Their forged packets even prevented some users from accessing Google.
        From the post just above yours?

        In case you just didn't understand it, what it says is that Comcast was fracking around with it's users ability to use certain types of sites. Somehow, I don't find that to be open or ethical.
        Report Abuse

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