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Myths and falsehoods from the assault on global warming science

April 06, 2010 2:32 pm ET — 99 Comments

The conservative media have mounted an all-out attack on climate science in an attempt to discredit efforts to fight man-made global warming. Media Matters for America has debunked prominent myths and falsehoods associated with this smear campaign.

MYTH: The scientific consensus on global warming has been undermined by recent events

MYTH: Erroneous Himalayan glacier statement in IPCC report undermines evidence of global warming

MYTH: IPCC report was wrong about the Amazon and drought

MYTH: New study debunks link between global warming and hurricane intensity

MYTH: CRU director Jones admitted that global warming stopped in past 15 years

MYTH: CRU scientists "destroyed" raw temperature data

MYTH: Scientists "fudged" data with a "trick" to "hide" temperature "decline"

MYTH: NASA admitted its data "are in even worse shape" than CRU data

MYTH: CRU scientists "suppressed" opposition

MYTH: The Earth has been cooling since 1998

MYTH: Snowstorms prove global warming does not exist

MYTH: The scientific consensus on global warming has been undermined by recent events

  • Critics have seized on claims about the U.N.'s 2007 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report and emails apparently stolen from the Climatic Research Unit from the University of East Anglia (CRU) as evidence that human-caused global warming is not happening. Conservatives in the media have repeatedly claimed that apparently stolen emails show that global warming is a "hoax," a "fraud," or "junk science," or that they put global warming science in question. For example, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin, The Washington Times, Matt Drudge, Fox News' Bret Baier, the Fox Nation, and Fox & Friends hosts Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, and Brian Kilmeade have all forwarded these claims.

REALITY: "Climategate" attacks on scientists are "unfounded." FactCheck.org wrote:

In late November 2009, more than 1,000 e-mails between scientists at the Climate Research Unit of the U.K.'s University of East Anglia were stolen and made public by an as-yet-unnamed hacker. Climate skeptics are claiming that they show scientific misconduct that amounts to the complete fabrication of man-made global warming. We find that to be unfounded:

  • The messages, which span 13 years, show a few scientists in a bad light, being rude or dismissive. An investigation is underway, but there's still plenty of evidence that the Earth is getting warmer and that humans are largely responsible.
  • Some critics say the e-mails negate the conclusions of a 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, but the IPCC report relied on data from a large number of sources, of which CRU was only one.
  • E-mails being cited as "smoking guns" have been misrepresented. For instance, one e-mail that refers to "hiding the decline" isn't talking about a decline in actual temperatures as measured at weather stations. These have continued to rise, and 2009 may turn out to be the fifth warmest year ever recorded. The "decline" actually refers to a problem with recent data from tree rings.

REALITY: Scientists have reaffirmed that warming is occurring and say the evidence is overwhelming. In response to the repeated attacks on global warming science, prominent scientists from around the world have come forward to reaffirm the wide consensus that man-made warming is occurring, and say the criticism has little bearing on the overwhelming amount of evidence. Among them are:

  • 29 prominent scientists in the U.S.: "The body of evidence that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming is overwhelming." In a December 4, 2009, letter to Congress, 29 prominent scientists, including 11 members of the National Academy of Sciences, stated: "The body of evidence that human activity is the dominant cause of global warming is overwhelming. The content of the stolen emails has no impact whatsoever on our overall understanding that human activity is driving dangerous levels of global warming."
  • 1,700 scientists in the United Kingdom: Global warming "is due primarily to human activities." More than 1,700 scientists from the United Kingdom signed a statement responding "to the ongoing questioning of core climate science and methods." The statement said: "We, members of the UK science community, have the utmost confidence in the observational evidence for global warming and the scientific basis for concluding that it is due primarily to human activities."
  • American Association for the Advancement of Science: "[S]cientific evidence" shows "that global climate change [is] caused by human activities." On December 4, 2009, the American Association for the Advancement of Science stated that it "has reaffirmed the position of its Board of Directors and the leaders of 18 respected organizations, who concluded based on multiple lines of scientific evidence that global climate change caused by human activities is now underway, and it is a growing threat to society." The statement also said that "the illegal release of private emails stolen from the University of East Anglia should not cause policy-makers and the public to become confused about the scientific basis of global climate change."
  • Union of Concerned Scientists: "[T]he IPCC's conclusions remain indisputable," and "nothing" in "stolen emails has any impact on our overall understanding that human activities are driving" climate change. The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) stated that despite "minor errors" in the IPCC's 2007 report, "Overall, the IPCC's conclusions remain indisputable: Climate change is happening now and human activity is causing it. Nations around the world will have to adapt to at least some climate change, including sea level rise, changes in precipitation, disruptions to agriculture, and species extinctions." In response to the CRU emails, UCS said that the "email content being quoted does not indicate that climate data and research have been compromised. Most importantly, nothing in the content of these stolen emails has any impact on our overall understanding that human activities are driving dangerous levels of global warming."
  • New York Times, Associated Press: Scientists say IPCC errors were "minor" and do not change consensus. The Times reported that the IPCC, "in reviewing complaints about possible errors in its report, has so far found that one was justified and another was 'baseless.' The general consensus among mainstream scientists is that the errors are in any case minor and do not undermine the report's conclusions." Similarly, the AP reported, "Scientists say the problems are minor and have nothing to do with the major conclusions about man-made global warming and how it will harm people and ecosystems."
  • RealClimate.org: "[P]ublic perception of the IPCC, and of climate science in general, has been massively distorted by the recent media storm." The staff at RealClimate.org -- which is comprised of working climate scientists -- wrote in response to the media distortions of the IPCC report: "Overall then, the IPCC assessment reports reflect the state of scientific knowledge very well. There have been a few isolated errors, and these have been acknowledged and corrected. What is seriously amiss is something else: the public perception of the IPCC, and of climate science in general, has been massively distorted by the recent media storm. All of these various 'gates' -- Climategate, Amazongate, Seagate, Africagate, etc., do not represent scandals of the IPCC or of climate science. Rather, they are the embarrassing battle-cries of a media scandal, in which a few journalists have misled the public with grossly overblown or entirely fabricated pseudogates, and many others have naively and willingly followed along without seeing through the scam."

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MYTH: Erroneous Himalayan glacier statement in IPCC report undermines evidence of global warming

  • After stating that "the great climate-change unraveling came none too soon," a New York Post editorial said that the IPCC's "key finding" "was revealed last month to be utterly bogus. ... The IPCC had claimed, with no evidence beyond a citation from a mass-market science magazine, that global warming would cause Himalayan glaciers to disappear by 2035."
  • A Washington Times editorial seized on the Himalayan glacier data to claim that man-made climate change science is "dead" and "needs to be buried."

REALITY: Despite IPCC error on Himalayan glaciers, studies show that glaciers are melting all over the world. The IPCC recently acknowledged and apologized for erroneously citing claims that Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035. However, the IPCC report highlights legitimate scientific studies showing that glaciers worldwide are melting.

Studies show the world's glaciers are melting rapidly. The World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS) issued a report in March 2008 showing that, according to a United Nations Environment Program press release, for 30 of the world's glaciers, "the average rate of melting and thinning more than doubled" in a year's time. WGMS later updated its data for 2007-08 and said that the "new data continues the global trend in strong ice loss over the past few decades." Moreover, scientists at the ETH Zurich university reportedly issued a study in 2009 showing that Swiss glaciers had retreated by 12 percent over the past decade.

Glacier experts link melting glaciers to global warming. Glacier expert Michael Zemp is quoted in a CNN.com article as saying, "Glaciers are the best proof that climate change is happening. This is happening on a global scale. They can translate very small changes in the climate into a visible signal." And a January 20 Guardian article reported that "Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist at Ohio State University, said there is strong evidence from a variety of sources of significant melting of glaciers -- from the area around Kilimanjaro in Africa to the Alps, the Andes, and the icefields of Antarctica because of a warming climate. Ice is also disappearing at a faster rate in recent decades, he said."

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MYTH: IPCC report was wrong about the Amazon and drought

  • The Wall Street Journal editorial board claimed that the IPCC's reports "are sloppy political documents intended to drive the climate lobby's regulatory agenda." To support this claim, the Journal cited "news that an IPCC claim that global warming could destroy 40% of the Amazon was based on a report by an environmental pressure group." The editorial further stated:

Take the rain forest claim. In its 2007 report, the IPCC wrote that "up to 40% of the Amazonian forests could react drastically to even a slight reduction in precipitation; this means that the tropical vegetation, hydrology and climate system in South America could change very rapidly to another steady state."

But as Jonathan Leake of London's Sunday Times reported last month, those claims were based on a report from the World Wildlife Fund, which in turn had fundamentally misrepresented a study in the journal Nature. The Nature study, Mr. Leake writes, "did not assess rainfall but in fact looked at the impact on the forest of human activity such as logging and burning."

REALITY: The IPCC's statement on the Amazon and drought are correct. Critics of the IPCC claim -- as the Journal did -- that the IPCC erred because it cited a World Wildlife Fund (WWF) report that said 40 percent of the Amazon rainforest is susceptible to drought; the critics say WWF came to that conclusion by misrepresenting a 1999 study in the journal Nature. But Daniel Nepstad, a co-author of the Nature study, has said that "the IPCC statement on the Amazon was correct," and more recent peer-reviewed research also supports the data.

Nature study author: "[T]he IPCC statement on the Amazon was correct." In response to the criticism of the IPCC, Nepstad -- who co-authored the Nature study the WWF report cited -- wrote:

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has been recently criticized in media coverage (e.g. Sunday Times) for presenting inaccurate information on the susceptibility of the forests of the Amazon Basin to rainfall reduction in its fourth assessment. The statement that has drawn the criticism reads as follows:

"Up to 40% of the Amazonian forests could react drastically to even a slight reduction in precipitation; this means that the tropical vegetation, hydrology and climate system in South America could change very rapidly to another steady state, not necessarily producing gradual changes between the current and the future situation (Rowell and Moore, 2000)." (IPCC 2007, Magrin et al. 2007)

The Rowell and Moore review report [the WWF report] that is cited as the basis of this IPCC statement cites an article that we published in the journal Nature in 1999 as the source for the following statement:

"Up to 40% of the Brazilian forest is extremely sensitive to small reductions in the amount of rainfall. In the 1998 dry season, some 270,000 sq. km of forest became vulnerable to fire, due to completely depleted plant-available water stored in the upper five metres of soil. A further 360,000 sq. km of forest had only 250 mm of plant-available soil water left.[Nepstad et al. 1999]" (Rowell and Moore 2000)

The IPCC statement on the Amazon is correct, but the citations listed in the Rowell and Moore report were incomplete. (The authors of this report interviewed several researchers, including the author of this note, and had originally cited the IPAM website where the statement was made that 30 to 40% of the forests of the Amazon were susceptible to small changes in rainfall).

[...]

After the Rowell and Moore report was released in 2000, and prior to the publication of the IPCC AR4, new evidence of the full extent of severe drought in the Amazon was available. In 2004, we estimated that half of the forest area of the Amazon Basin had either fallen below, or was very close to, the critical level of soil moisture below which trees begin to die in 1998. This estimate incorporated new rainfall data and results from an experimental reduction of rainfall in an Amazon forest that we had conducted with funding from the US National Science Foundation (Nepstad et al. 2004). Field evidence of the soil moisture critical threshold is presented in Nepstad et al. 2007.

In sum, the IPCC statement on the Amazon was correct. The report that is cited in support of the IPCC statement (Rowell and Moore 2000) omitted some citations in support of the 40% value statement.

RealClimate: Amazon "issue" is "completely without merit." In a February 14 post on "IPCC errors: facts and spin," Real Climate noted that claims that the IPCC statement on Amazon forest dieback are false are "completely without merit." RealClimate noted that Nepstad has said that the IPCC was correct and stated the "only issue is that the IPCC cited the WWF report rather than the underlying peer-reviewed papers by Nepstad et al. These studies actually provide the basis for the IPCC's estimate on Amazonian sensitivity to drought."

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MYTH: New study debunks link between global warming and hurricane intensity

  • HotAir.com's Ed Morrissey claimed that a new study in Nature Geoscience "concludes that hurricane strength has little to do with global warming" and "nothing to do with AGW or carbon emissions," and that it's "yet another reason to dismiss the highly-politicized" and not "reliable" IPCC report.

REALITY: The Nature Geoscience and IPCC findings on future impact of global warming on hurricane intensity are consistent. The Nature Geoscience study did not say -- as Morrissey claimed -- that "hurricane strength has little to do with global warming." Rather, it said that "greenhouse warming" will increase hurricane "intensity" while decreasing hurricane "frequency." This finding is consistent with the IPCC report, which found that "it is likely that future tropical cyclones ... will become more intense," but there is "less confidence in projections of a global decrease in numbers of tropical cyclones." While the two reports differed on whether human-caused warming has already changed hurricane activity, the author of the Nature Geoscience study said the IPCC provided "an accurate summary of science that existed at that point."

Study in Nature Geoscience says models project increases in hurricane intensity due to greenhouse warming. The study (subscription required) Morrissey cited, which was authored by 10 climate experts, states that "greenhouse warming" will cause an increase in tropical cyclone (hurricane) intensity but a decrease in tropical cyclone frequency:

[F]uture projections based on theory and high-resolution dynamical models consistently indicate that greenhouse warming will cause the globally averaged intensity of tropical cyclones to shift towards stronger storms, with intensity increases of 2-11% by 2100. Existing modelling studies also consistently project decreases in the globally averaged frequency of tropical cyclones, by 6-34%. Balanced against this, higher resolution modelling studies typically project substantial increases in the frequency of the most intense cyclones, and increases of the order of 20% in the precipitation rate within 100|[nbsp]|km of the storm centre.

IPCC report also said "it is likely that future tropical cyclones ... will become more intense." From the IPCC's 2007 Synthesis Report:

Based on a range of models, it is likely that future tropical cyclones (typhoons and hurricanes) will become more intense, with larger peak wind speeds and more heavy precipitation associated with ongoing increases of tropical sea-surface temperatures. There is less confidence in projections of a global decrease in numbers of tropical cyclones. The apparent increase in the proportion of very intense storms since 1970 in some regions is much larger than simulated by current models for that period.

Author's study said IPCC made conclusions based on science at the time. The study's co-author, Tom Knutson, is quoted in an AP article as saying the IPCC based its conclusion that warming "had already altered storm activity" on the science that was available at the time:

In 2007, the authoritative Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said it was "more likely than not" that man-made greenhouse gases had already altered storm activity, but the authors of the new paper said more recent evidence muddies the issue.

"The evidence is not strong enough that we could make some kind of statement" along those lines, Knutson said. It doesn't mean the IPCC report was wrong; it was just based on science done by 2006 and recent research has changed a bit, said Knutson and the other researchers.

[TOP]

MYTH: CRU director Jones admitted that global warming stopped in past 15 years

  • Gateway Pundit blogger Jim Hoft claimed in a headline on February 14, "It Was All a Lie: Climategate Scientist Admits There Is No Global Warming."
  • In his Washington Post column, George Will wrote: "Global warming skeptics, too, have erred. They have said there has been no statistically significant warming for 10 years. Phil Jones, former director of Britain's Climatic Research Unit, source of the leaked documents, admits it has been 15 years."

REALITY: Jones said: "I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed." The conservative media seized on a BBC interview in which Jones said that temperature data do not show "statistically significant" warming since 1995 in order to suggest he "admitted" warming stopped or is not occurring. In fact, Jones stated in the interview he's "100% confident that the climate has warmed," but that 15 years is generally too short a time period to achieve statistically significant results. Jones added that statistical significance is "much more likely for longer periods." From Jones' BBC interview:

B - Do you agree that from 1995 to the present there has been no statistically-significant global warming

Yes, but only just. I also calculated the trend for the period 1995 to 2009. This trend (0.12C per decade) is positive, but not significant at the 95% significance level. The positive trend is quite close to the significance level. Achieving statistical significance in scientific terms is much more likely for longer periods, and much less likely for shorter periods.

C - Do you agree that from January 2002 to the present there has been statistically significant global cooling?

No. This period is even shorter than 1995-2009. The trend this time is negative (-0.12C per decade), but this trend is not statistically significant.

[...]

E - How confident are you that warming has taken place and that humans are mainly responsible?

I'm 100% confident that the climate has warmed. As to the second question, I would go along with IPCC Chapter 9 - there's evidence that most of the warming since the 1950s is due to human activity.

RealClimate.org: Media are distorting Jones' comments about warming over the past 15 years. In a February 15 post, RealClimate responded to a Daily Mail article that had distorted Jones' comments by claiming Jones "admits ... [t]here has been no global warming since 1995.″ The RealClimate scientists wrote:

What Jones actually said is that, while the globe has nominally warmed since 1995, it is difficult to establish the statistical significance of that warming given the short nature of the time interval (1995-present) involved. The warming trend consequently doesn't quite achieve statistical significance. But it is extremely difficult to establish a statistically significant trend over a time interval as short as 15 years -- a point we have made countless times at RealClimate.

RealClimate also noted that Jones had "confirmed to us that our interpretations of his comments in the BBC interview are indeed the correct ones, and that he agrees with the statements in our piece above."

Long-term data show clear warming trend with 2000-2009 as warmest decade on record. The IPCC stated in 2007 that multiple lines of observational evidence establish that "warming of the climate system is unequivocal." NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), the National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the U.K. Met Office, and the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO) have all stated that 2000-2009 was the warmest decade on record for the globe.

From the Met Office:

avtempchart

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MYTH: CRU scientists "destroyed" raw temperature data

  • On Fox News' Special Report, senior political analyst Brit Hume said: "Now it has come out that the original raw data used to create these models has been destroyed or otherwise disposed of. The response of the alarmists to these revelations has been that the emails were taken out of context and that the destruction of all that raw data was done for space reasons. There's a one-word answer to all of that: Please."
  • On Fox Business' Cavuto, The Washington Examiner's Michael Barone said they "destroyed all the original data. Only data that they have now is data that they have manipulated and adjusted, perhaps to fit their hypotheses. And, as a result, we're not being asked to [lower greenhouse gas emissions] on the basis of science." Later, Barone said, "They have non-retrievable data. They say they can't get their original data. They have non-replicable data."

REALITY: Raw temperature data still exists at original meteorological stations. Contrary to the claim that the CRU scientists "destroyed" raw temperature data to cover up cooling and that the results, therefore, can not be replicated, scientists say the original data are still at the meteorological stations where they obtained them. Moreover, other climate organizations have replicated CRU's results using similar data sets to demonstrate a similar long-term warming trend.

Scientists: The data were not destroyed. Both Jones and Gavin Schmidt, a climate modeler at NASA, have stated that the raw data are still at the original weather stations. Jones is quoted in a Greenwire article as saying, "We haven't destroyed anything. The data is still there -- you can still get these stations from the [NOAA] National Climatic Data Center." Also, in response to a comment on RealClimate asking whether it is true that the CRU lost the data, Schmidt replied, "No. The original data is curated at the met services where it originated."

Scientists note that datasets from other research centers show the same long-term climate trends. Greenwire also reported that Tom Karl, director of NOAA's Climatic Data Center, "noted that the conclusions of the IPCC reports are based on several data sets in addition to the CRU, including data from NOAA, NASA and the United Kingdom Met Office. Each of those data sets basically show identical multi-decadal trends." The article further noted that Ben Santer, a climate scientist at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, "said CRU's major findings were replicated by other groups, including the NOAA climatic data center, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, and also in Russia."

[TOP]

MYTH: Scientists "fudged" data with a "trick" to "hide" temperature "decline"

  • On his Fox News show, Glenn Beck said, "How about Phil Jones, head of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia? 'I have just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years to hide the decline.' Yes, he is talking about a trick that another scientist previously used in a peer-reviewed journal to apparently hide the decline in temperatures. Incredible."
  • The hosts at Fox & Friends have also repeatedly claimed the emails "prove" scientists were "doctoring" data or "fudging the numbers."

REALITY: "Hide the decline" refers to unreliable tree-ring data, not actual temperature readings. The Morning Call of Allentown, Pennsylvania, reported that Penn State scientist Michael Mann -- whose "trick" was referenced in Jones' email -- "said his trick, or 'trick of the trade,' for the Nature chart was to combine data from tree-ring measurements, which record world temperatures from 1,000 years ago until 1960, with actual temperature readings for 1961 through 1998" because "scientists have discovered that, for temperatures since 1960, tree rings have not been a reliable indicator." Jones has also stated that it is "well known" that tree ring data "does not show a realistic trend of temperature after 1960," and the CRU has said that "[t]he 'decline' in this set of tree-ring data should not be taken to mean that there is any problem with the instrumental temperature data."

Temperature records show there was no "decline" in actual temperatures to hide. In a December 8 London Times column, Andrew Watson, research professor at the University of East Anglia explained, "The tree-ring measure declines, but the actual temperatures after 1960 go up." Jones has similarly explained that "it was absolutely necessary to remove the incorrect impression given by the tree rings that temperatures between about 1960 and 1999 (when the email was written) were not rising, as our instrumental data clearly showed they were." Indeed, measurements from each of the major climate centers show the clear warming trend.

Scientists have stated that the word "trick" is being misinterpreted. Scientists say the word "trick" is a commonly used expression and does not indicate deception. Bob Ward, director of policy and communications at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics, is quoted in a Guardian article as saying of Jones' email: "Scientists say 'trick' not just to mean deception. They mean it as a clever way of doing something -- a short cut can be a trick." RealClimate also explained that "[s]cientists often use the term 'trick' to refer to ... 'a good way to deal with a problem', rather than something that is 'secret', and so there is nothing problematic in this at all." Further, Penn State concluded in an investigation of charges against Mann that they "were not falsifying data; they were trying to construct an understandable graph for those who were not experts in the field. The so-called 'trick' was nothing more than a statistical method used to bring two or more different kinds of data sets together in a legitimate fashion by a technique that has been reviewed by a broad array of peers in the field."

AP: U.K. investigation shows "no evidence" that CRU scientists "had tampered with data." The Associated Press reported on March 31 that "[t]he House of Commons' Science and Technology Committee said Wednesday that they'd seen no evidence to support charges that the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit or its director, Phil Jones, had tampered with data or perverted the peer review process to exaggerate the threat of global warming -- two of the most serious criticisms levied against the climatologist and his colleagues." The House of Commons issued the report on March 31.

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MYTH: NASA admitted its data "are in even worse shape" than CRU data

  • A March 30 FoxNews.com article advanced global warming skeptic Chris Horner's claim that climate scientists' emails show that the CRU temperature data are inaccurate, and that NASA's, "by its own admission," "are in even worse shape."
  • The Fox Nation linked to the FoxNews.com article with the headline, "NASA Rocked by 'Climategate II' "

REALITY: NASA did not say its data are "in worse shape" than CRU's. Apart from the fact that there is no evidence that CRU scientists tampered with temperature data, NASA did not say its data are "in worse shape" than CRU's. The accusation is based on distortions of an email exchange in which a reporter asked NASA whether it is "correct to say that NASA's data is more accurate than" other groups' data. Neither of the two NASA scientists who replied suggested that NASA's data are wrong or unreliable.

NASA scientist said that NASA data are "accurate" but intended for a different purpose than other data sets. In the email exchange, a USA Today reporter asked NASA whether "it [is] correct to say that NASA's data is more accurate than NCDC's since it has more sources? In the media, it would be ideal to refer to one source rather than two." NASA scientist Reto Ruedy replied that for the reporter's purposes, using NCDC data for U.S. means and CRU's data for global means is more accurate. From Ruedy's email:

No, your statement is NOT correct; to get the US means, NCDC's procedure of only using the best stations is more accurate. If that were our goal, we would proceed in the same way. Actually, whenever we report on US means in our publications, we recompute all US means using only USHCN data.

My recommendation to you is to continue using NCDC's data for the US means and Phil Jones' data for the global means. Our method is geared to getting the global mean and large regional means correctly enough to assess our model results.

We are basically a modeling group and were forced into rudimentary analysis of global observed data in the 70's and early 80's since nobody else was doing that job at the time. Now we happily combine NCDC's and Hadley Center's data to get what we need to evaluate our model results. For that purpose, what we do is more than accurate enough. But we have no intention to compete with either of the other two organizations in what they do best.

NASA's Hansen stated that NASA's "method of analysis has features that are different than the analyses of the other groups." In a subsequent email, NASA's James Hansen told the reporter that NASA's "method of analysis has features that are different than the analyses of the other groups." From the email:

Well, I guess that I would say it a bit differently.

Our method of analysis has features that are different than the analyses of the other groups. In some cases the differences have a substantial impact.

For example, we extrapolate station measurements as much as 1200 km. This allows us to include results for the full Arctic. In 2005 this turned out to be important, as the Arctic had a large positive temperature anomaly. We thus found 2005 to be the warmest year in the record, while the British did not and initially NOAA also did not. Independent satellite IR measurements showed that our extrapolations of anomalies into the Arctic were conservative. I am very confident that our result was the correct one in that instance.

Also, as we show in our 2001 paper, our urban warming correction in the U.S. differs from the NOAA correction (we have a larger adjustment, which decreases recent temperatures relative to last century). I would not claim that one is superior to the other, but the different results provide one conservative measure of uncertainty. In general it has proven very useful to have more than one group do the analysis.

Also it should be noted that the different groups have cooperated in a very friendly way to try to understand different conclusions when they arise. You will see that we had co-authors from the other groups on our 2001 paper. And in general it is a bad idea to anoint any group as being THE authority. Science doesn't usually work best that way.

NASA, CRU, and NCDC data all show similar long-term warming trends. While, as Hansen noted, there are some differences in how NASA, CRU, and NCDC analyze the data, all three show a similar long-term warming trend. Hansen included the following chart in a NASA document released in March:

warmingtrend

On its website, the Met Office explains:

One important thing to note is that the difference between the GISS [NASA] and HadCRUT3 [CRU] analyses are smaller than the calculated uncertainties on the HadCRUT3 data set -- the data sets are not inconsistent. The largest component of the uncertainty arises from the fact that temperatures over large areas of the Earth's surface remain unobserved. There are very few observations in the Arctic and Antarctic. GISS attempts to estimate temperatures in these areas, HadCRUT3 does not. This is the major source of difference between the analyses, which can be seen if, instead of a global average, one takes the average temperature anomaly between 60S and 60N. Over this slightly smaller area, the GISS and HadCRUT3 analyses give very similar results.

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MYTH: CRU scientists "suppressed" opposition

  • On Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace claimed that the leaked emails "seemed to indicate that some of the climate change advocates were suppressing opposition."
  • In a Wall Street Journal op-ed, Cato Institute fellow and author Patrick Michaels claimed that the emails reveal "a silencing of climate scientists" and "dramatically weakened the case for emissions reductions."

REALITY: Charges of suppression unsupported by evidence. Critics have frequently pointed to a March 11, 2003, email in which Mann suggested a boycott of the journal Climate Research over the publication of a 2003 study by Willie Soon and Sallie Baliunas, and a July 8, 2004, email, in which Jones criticized two papers and said he couldn't "see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" But the Climate Research publisher later conceded the Soon-Baliunas paper should not have been published as it was written, and the papers Jones criticized were included in the IPCC report despite his objections.

Climate Research editors and publisher conceded Soon-Baliunas paper was flawed. The New York Times reported that the Soon-Baliunas paper "has been heavily criticized by many scientists, including several of the journal editors. The editors said last week that whether or not the conclusions were correct, the analysis was deeply flawed." The Times further noted that the "publisher of the journal, Dr. Otto Kinne, and an editor who recently became editor in chief, Dr. Hans von Storch, both said that in retrospect the paper should not have been published as written." The Wall Street Journal reported on July 31, 2003, (accessed via Factiva) that three editors, including von Storch, "resigned in protest over the journal's handling of the review process that approved the study."

CRU scientists did not keep the papers to which they objected out of IPCC. As the Yale Forum on Climate Change & the Media explained, Jones had criticized "two papers, one by [Eugenia] Kalnay and [Ming] Cai (2003) in Nature and one by [Ross] McKitrick and [Patrick] Michaels (2004) in Climate Research, both dealing with effects of land-use change on temperature measurements. Despite Jones' dislike of the papers and his threat to keep them out of the IPCC Fourth Assessment Report, both papers were subsequently included in the Assessment, suggesting that no small group of scientists could be final arbiters of what is included in the IPCC reports."

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MYTH: The Earth has been cooling since 1998

  • An Investor's Business Daily editorial claimed, "As it turns out, the earth hasn't been warming at all, at least not in the last decade, and reputable scientists have said it may continue to cool for decades to come."
  • Washington Post columnist George Will has repeatedly claimed that the Earth has been cooling or has not warmed since 1998.

REALITY: 2000-2009 decade was warmer than the 90s, which were warmer than the 80s. Global warming skeptics have seized on the fact that 1998 was the hottest year on record, according to Met Office data, (NASA and NOAA say 2005 was the warmest on record) in order to claim that the Earth has cooled. But scientists reject the idea for several reasons: 1) scientists have identified a long term warming trend that spans several decades; 2) scientists say a decade is too short a time span to make meaningful conclusions about long-term global warming; and 3) the 2000-2009 decade is the hottest on record.

AP: "Statisticians Reject Global Cooling" and have identified a "distinct decades-long upward trend." In an experiment, the Associated Press "gave temperature data to four independent statisticians and asked them to look for trends, without telling them what the numbers represented." Their conclusion was that the "experts found no true temperature declines over time." From the AP's October 26, 2009, article:

Global warming skeptics base their claims on an unusually hot year in 1998. Since then, they say, temperatures have dropped -- thus, a cooling trend. But it's not that simple.

Since 1998, temperatures have dipped, soared, fallen again and are now rising once more. Records kept by the British meteorological office and satellite data used by climate skeptics still show 1998 as the hottest year. However, data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA show 2005 has topped 1998. Published peer-reviewed scientific research generally cites temperatures measured by ground sensors, which are from NOAA, NASA and the British, more than the satellite data.

The recent Internet chatter about cooling led NOAA's climate data center to re-examine its temperature data. It found no cooling trend.

"The last 10 years are the warmest 10-year period of the modern record," said NOAA climate monitoring chief Deke Arndt. "Even if you analyze the trend during that 10 years, the trend is actually positive, which means warming."

The AP sent expert statisticians NOAA's year-to-year ground temperature changes over 130 years and the 30 years of satellite-measured temperatures preferred by skeptics and gathered by scientists at the University of Alabama in Huntsville.

Statisticians who analyzed the data found a distinct decades-long upward trend in the numbers, but could not find a significant drop in the past 10 years in either data set. The ups and downs during the last decade repeat random variability in data as far back as 1880.

Saying there's a downward trend since 1998 is not scientifically legitimate, said David Peterson, a retired Duke University statistics professor and one of those analyzing the numbers.

2000-2009 was warmest decade on record. GISS, NCDC, the U.K. Met Office, and WMO have all stated that 2000-2009 was the warmest decade on record for the globe. Charts from GISS and the U.K. Met Office displaying global average temperatures clearly show that temperatures trended upward in recent decades.

From the Met Office:

metofficedata

From GISS:

gissdata

PolitiFact: Experts say "it's misleading to look at only the last 10 years." After Republican strategist Mary Matalin claimed "for the last decade the climate has been cooling," PolitiFact.com wrote that several experts told them "it's shortsighted to say changes within a decade mean that climate change is going away." From PolitiFact:

If 1998 is the starting point, a year many climate skeptics tend to cite, everything looks cooler in comparison, said Raymond Bradley, a climate scientist at the University of Massachusetts. He also pointed out that, when evaluating the impact of climate change on temperature, it's misleading to look at only the last 10 years.

A decade is such a small period of time that "it's like saying, 'It was cold here last week. What happened to climate change?'" Bradley said.

It's a point we heard repeatedly from the climate experts we interviewed. They all agreed that, while climate temperatures may dip from year to year, it's shortsighted to say changes within a decade mean that climate change is going away.

WMO uses 30-year temperature averages "to eliminate year-to-year variations." Regarding long-term climate averages, WMO "requires the calculation of averages for consecutive periods of 30 years, with the latest covering the 1961-1990 period. However, many WMO members, including the UK, update their averages at the completion of each decade. Thirty years was chosen as a period long enough to eliminate year-to-year variations."

[TOP]

MYTH: Snowstorms prove global warming does not exist

REALITY: Snowstorms do not disprove global warming. The overwhelming consensus on warming comes from scientists' measurement and reconstruction of temperatures over many years (i.e. long-term trends), and not from individual, random weather (snowstorms, heat waves, etc). Moreover, scientists say snow and cold weather will not go away as a result of global warming and predict that it may actually increase snowfall in some areas.

NASA: Weather and climate are different, and greenhouse gases are warming the Earth. According to NASA: "The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere 'behaves' over relatively long periods of time." NASA further explained that "weather consists of the short-term (minutes to months) changes in the atmosphere," including snow and heat waves. On the other hand, climate is "the description of the long-term pattern of weather in a particular area," or "the average weather for a particular region and time period, usually taken over 30-years." NASA has also said of the recent winter weather:

To many people's confusion, these weather events happened against a backdrop of increasing man-made greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere that are gradually warming the planet. But scientists stress this weather does not mean that those gases are no longer exerting a warming influence. Nor does it go against the grain of basic global warming theory. Cold snaps and bouts of natural cooling that could last years are expected naturally even as the climate continues on a long-term warming trend, forced by man-made emissions.

Scientists say cold weather will not go away because of global warming, and warming may increase snowfall. As explained in a January 6 AP article, "experts say the cold snap doesn't disprove global warming at all -- it's just a blip in the long-term heating trend." The article quoted Gerald Meehl, a senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, as saying snow is "part of natural variability" and that with global warming, "we'll still have record cold temperatures. We'll just have fewer of them." Moreover, Kevin Trenberth, a climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, was quoted in an NPR article explaining that a predicted "consequence" of warming is an increase of snowfall in some areas. From the article:

Most don't see a contradiction between a warming world and lots of snow. That includes Kevin Trenberth, a prominent climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado.

"The fact that the oceans are warmer now than they were, say, 30 years ago means there's about on average 4 percent more water vapor lurking around over the oceans than there was, say, in the 1970s," he says.

Warmer water means more water vapor rises up into the air, and what goes up must come down.

"So one of the consequences of a warming ocean near a coastline like the East Coast and Washington, D.C., for instance, is that you can get dumped on with more snow partly as a consequence of global warming," he says.

[TOP]

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by mmfa.fan (April 06, 2010 2:43 pm ET)
      3  
      Comments should be good on this one.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (April 06, 2010 2:51 pm ET)
      6 4
      Besides his daily task of rounding up illegal aliens, Sheriff Joe Arpaio is doing his part to combat global warming...and other national ills.

      In a stroke of genius...he now has inmates pedal stationary bikes to create their own power if they want to watch TV.

      Other benefits include healthier inmates which reduces the cost of health care...and doing his bit to help the economy by saving money for the county.

      Once again, Sheriff Joe proves that he gets it!
      Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 3:05 pm ET)
        3 4
        Perfecto
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mmfa.fan (April 06, 2010 3:16 pm ET)
          4 4
          Wow, so you're both fans of Joe Arpaio. Explains a lot.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 3:18 pm ET)
            5 4
            I'm a fan of his magnanimous nod to global warming as evidenced by his pedal pushing promotion, yep. As Wesley said, "genius".
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (April 06, 2010 3:23 pm ET)
              4 4
              A crusader for crime fighting and national security...a global warming activist...supporter of health care reform...financially responsible...

              And we're not supposed to like him? Sheesh...some people are just never satisfied.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mmfa.fan (April 06, 2010 4:18 pm ET)
                3 2
                No, it makes sense that you admire him. He's totally the kind of person I can see you following.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 4:56 pm ET)
                  3 5
                  Of course, Arpaio is in big trouble, it appears. He's been alleged to have participating in some really troubling behavior.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by txthinker (April 06, 2010 6:05 pm ET)
                    3  
                    Of course, Arpaio is in big trouble, it appears. He's been alleged to have participating in some really troubling behavior.
                    Maybe Wesley and right ON can visit Arpaio regularly and tell him to his face how much they admire him once he goes to prison.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (April 07, 2010 1:03 am ET)
            2 3
            Sheriff Joe is an American hero. He is one of the few people who is serious in keeping the illegals out.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 3:32 pm ET)
        6 8
        Yeah, except this has nothing to do with MMFA's topic, and is clearly an effort to derail the thread.

        Notice Wesley the Weasel said nothing about the actual article MMFA posted. Arpaio's efforts have nothing to do with the myths and falsehoods being pushed by the rightwing. The topic is NOT global warming in general.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 4:04 pm ET)
          9 4
          Wesley's post was far more interesting and informative than your never-fail rubber stamping of MMfA's thread and your daily barrage of personal attacks and insults. It's all you ever have Sue.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 4:12 pm ET)
            5 8
            Wesley's point was an attempt to derail the topic, as I explained, and your baseless personal attack is simply an expression of your personal animus towards me since I have made you and Wesley the Weasel lose the credibility you guys once had here.

            Too bad, so sad.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 7:02 pm ET)
              4 4
              And above, we see the influx of sockpuppets of these troll posters thumbing down my posts as though that somehow changes their content!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (April 07, 2010 11:00 am ET)
                2 3
                Stop playing the victim. Your whining paranoia is just that. People most likely thumbs down you because of your nonsense, hypocrisy and insults. Deal with it. Grow up.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (April 07, 2010 6:25 pm ET)
                     
                  Yeah, right. Since there's no evidence of nonsense and hypocrisy in my posts, and I only call idiots, fools and troll "idiots", "fools" and "trolls" after I document HOW those people are idiots, fools and trolls, I don't insult them, you have no point.

                  You're the one who needs to grow up. You're the one who needs to get over your personal animus. You're the one who needs to stop trying to derail threads, and supporting others who do the same.

                  I'm not paranoid. There clearly ARE people out to attack me unfairly. That's been documented on numerous occasions.
                  Report Abuse
    • Author by Tommy (April 06, 2010 3:16 pm ET)
      3 5
      Climate Depot is your friend and helps.

      http://www.climatedepot.com/

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 06, 2010 5:24 pm ET)
        3 1
        Climate Depot is your friend and helps.


        Ummm... hi, friend and helps. ClimateDepot is a place for people with no natural skepticism to make themselves feel good by calling themselves skeptics. Nothing more.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Tommy (April 06, 2010 5:52 pm ET)
          3 2
          Actually it is a good resource site for a lot of stories that are just being ignored by the American media. Europe which was much more in the camp of AGW hoax has been beating the hell out of the falsehoods lately.

          Funny how we hear so little about it in the states.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by txthinker (April 06, 2010 6:06 pm ET)
            3 1
            Actually it is a good resource site for a lot of stories that are just being ignored by the American media.
            They're being ignored because they're worthless crap.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 06, 2010 6:58 pm ET)
              3  
              But it's a "good source" for crap. Perfect for people who use silly terms like " AGW hoax".
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (April 06, 2010 7:09 pm ET)
                4 1
                I've noticed unprecedented severe weather this winter & spring: extreme snow storms, flooding, wind, cold and all predicted by climate change scientists.

                But weather this past year is a hoax cooked up by those climate scientists to confuse us. Their real agenda is to make a lot of money somehow...eh?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 06, 2010 7:32 pm ET)
                  2  
                  Well, yeah, Mary. I mean, it's not like there's some easier way to make money by disagreeing with the scientists and working to trick people into thinking GW is a hoax. :0)
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by highliter (April 07, 2010 5:57 pm ET)
                  1  
                  Wow they predicted all that. Man who would of thought that somewhere on the planet there will be extreme weather. I mean before the 70 that stuff never happened!
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by HeeNow (April 07, 2010 9:15 am ET)
              1 2
              I think TX is more for TaxThinker than TexasThinker.

              It really doesn't matter anyway. We can argue this to our last breaths, and nothing is going to happen.

              The American people are so against Cap & Trade that it will never happen. It's political suicide.

              It doesn't matter where we stand.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by highliter (April 07, 2010 5:49 pm ET)
                  2
                No but Obama is just going to use the EPA to implement cap and tax without having to pass it.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 3:36 pm ET)
      5 8
      Our national discourse on the topic of global climate change is sabotaged by the nonsense from the right. We have to waste countless hours debunking and refuting this toxic nonsense that poisons the debates we should be having on long-term solutions to this inevitable problem.

      The Defense Dept rightly found that Global Warming is going to be our biggest security risk in the future - the instability we're just beginning to see in our weather - record flooding, droughts, blizzards, etc - will soon be seen in countries adversely affected by these changes in the climate.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Tommy (April 06, 2010 3:38 pm ET)
        7 6
        Oh really?
        http://www.climatedepot.com/a/5822/Shock-Green-Guru-Lovelock-warms-to-skeptics-The-skeptics-have-kept-us-saneThey-have-kept-us-from-regarding-climate-science-as-a-religion-It-had-gone-too-far-that-way


        [Climate Depot Editor's Note: This is a game changer. James Lovelock -- formerly the world's number one leading global warming fear promoter -- is now praising climate skeptics! What a difference 3 years makes. Climate Depot is proud to serve up skepticism daily to aid in the psychological healing of former believers in man-made climate fears. See Flashback 2007: Lovelock Predicts Global Warming Doom: 'Billions of us will die; few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in Arctic']

        Shock: Green Guru Lovelock warms to skeptics! 'The skeptics have kept us sane...They have kept us from regarding the climate science as a religion. It had gone too far that way' UK Times - March 14, 2010

        Lovelock: 'Effect of man-made carbon is unpredictable. Temperatures might go down at first, rather than up'

        Lovelock: 'I think you have to accept that the skeptics have kept us sane - some of them, anyway. They have been a breath of fresh air'

        'Lovelock places great emphasis on proof...He is concerned that projections are relying on computer models...because models of that kind have let us down before'

        SHOCK: UK Green Guru James Lovelock Reconsiders Warming Views?!: Lovelock: Man-made Carbon Emissions 'Have Saved Us from A New Ice Age' - UK Daily Express - March 11, 2020

        Lovelock in 2010: 'I hate all this business about feeling guilty about what we're doing. We're not guilty'

        Lovelock in 2010: 'Observations done by hand are accurate but all the theoretical stuff in between tends to be very dodgy and I think they are seeing this with climate change'

        Flashback 2009: Environmental guru Lovelock slams carbon trading: 'Most of the green stuff is verging on gigantic scam'
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (April 06, 2010 4:16 pm ET)
          3 8
          I have no idea why you would think that one looney person's opinions on the effects of global climate change has any relevance to either the science of global warming OR this article by MMFA.

          Maybe because you're a paid troll, and you'll do anything, including changing screen names between a variety of sockpuppet identities, to try to derail a thread to avoid discussing the topic you can't refute?

          Yeah, that's the ticket!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by internet soldier (April 06, 2010 9:19 pm ET)
          5  
          James Lovelock also said this:

          Writing in the British newspaper The Independent in January 2006, Lovelock argues that, as a result of global warming, "billions of us will die and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic where the climate remains tolerable" by the end of the 21st century.[20] He has been quoted in The Guardian that 80% of humans will perish by 2100 AD, and this climate change will last 100,000 years.

          He further predicts, the average temperature in temperate regions will increase by as much as 8°C and by up to 5°C in the tropics, leaving much of the world's land uninhabitable and unsuitable for farming, with northerly migrations and new cities created in the Arctic. He predicts much of Europe will become uninhabitable having turned to desert and Britain will become Europe's "life-raft" due to its stable temperature caused by being surrounded by the ocean. He suggests that "we have to keep in mind the awesome pace of change and realise how little time is left to act, and then each community and nation must find the best use of the resources they have to sustain civilisation for as long as they can".[20]

          He partly retreated from this position in a September 2007 address to the World Nuclear Association's Annual Symposium, suggesting that climate change would stabilise and prove survivable, and that the Earth itself is in "no danger" because it would stabilise in a new state. Life, however, might be forced to migrate en masse to remain in habitable climes.[21] In 2008, he became a patron of the Optimum Population Trust, which campaigns for a gradual decline in the global human population to a sustainable level.[22]

          Here's an interview of his from a month ago.

          Would it really have been that difficult to get some more information about Lovelock before you unquestioningly accepted this article's assertions about him, which were supported by cut and pasted quotes of his. I mean, I know this wouldn't convince me, even if I was a denier. Seriously, learn some critical thinking, it's for your own good. You'll have less embarassing fails that way.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (April 07, 2010 12:08 am ET)
            3 1
            If he was actually interested in participating in a fair debate with us, he could have done that, sure, but he's not, so he didn't.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 3:44 pm ET)
        10 4
        Well then why don't you turn your countless debunking and refuting hours away from the science and on to why government is the answer?

        That should fill up countless eons.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:06 am ET)
        1  
        I agree, the debate defending the need for alternative energy over fossil fuels is getting so relentlessly tiring. And then, there are those smug A -holes in washington like inhofe who just make asinine comments and don't even debate anymore pretending like climate change is now entirely accepted as a hoax ie the exact opposite of the truth. But he is retarded, there are some who are actually reasonably intelligent that don't trust the data anymore. I really don't care to defend scientists. Its time to start talking about solutions rather than endlessly debating reality. and delusion. I want to live in a country where people have the ability to change their minds based on the evidence presented. It seems this country and Americans in general form an opinion and then, rummage through as many sources as possible to prove their own conclusions discarding any and all evidence to the contrary and thus, will never be convinced otherwise. Global warming is just one of about ten different major and potentially catastrophic problems that our addiction to oil will create for us in the future. So haggling over global warming's merits are futile. Its time to start talking about a plan to transition away from oil - something nearly everyone in this country will eventually have to accept as fact.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by boulderhippy (April 06, 2010 5:01 pm ET)
      5 4
      Why not do a story on the myths of global warming?

      Questionable scientific methodology, political corruption of science, too many unaccounted for variables, and downright arrogance of the clobal warming cult.

      Cap and trade will keep third world countries from developing and depriving their citizens a comfortable way of life. People in the US have so many comforts that are taken for granted yet a segment wants to take expensive steps with inexact technologies to keep the developing countries undeveloped. Think of other people in the world and help them to use their resources wisely. We should help people not tell them that they can't have what we have because of some fear-mongering.

      Global environmental policies have detrimental effects on the poorest people.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 06, 2010 5:26 pm ET)
        3 4
        Why not do a story on the myths of global warming?

        Questionable scientific methodology, political corruption of science, too many unaccounted for variables, and downright arrogance of the clobal warming cult.


        I believe all of the myths you listed have been addressed, many on this site, some probably even in the above item.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 5:28 pm ET)
        8 5
        Most left wing policies have detrimental effects on the poorest people. Like illegal immigration, and the minimum wage.

        Their "leaders" just don't want to admit it because we all know that liberals champion the little guy. Now there's a myth worth exploring.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by internet soldier (April 06, 2010 5:44 pm ET)
          7 4
          Conservatives are at their most irritating when they pretend to care about the poor. Usually this faux compassion comes in the form of conservatives who say that the poor are only because democratic handouts are making them lazy.

          In this regard they are much like the neocons who pretend to care about Iraqi civilians.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 5:47 pm ET)
            6 4
            I never said democratic handouts, actually any handouts make people dependent. Lazy is your term.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by internet soldier (April 06, 2010 7:39 pm ET)
              6  
              One way or another, many on the right believe that the main reason poverty exists is because the poor just don't work hard enough.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:14 am ET)
              3  
              Actually you never said anything, which forced people to guess what you meant rather than providing examples of evidence of your claim. tHAT is what happens when people have no idea what you are referring to, they guess.
              Report Abuse
        • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:12 am ET)
          1  
          Don't bother explaining this comment. Please just let us all guess what exactly it is you are even referring to. I thought it was the GOP who constantly passing tax cuts for the rich and is in the pocket of the corporate elite.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (April 06, 2010 5:35 pm ET)
        4 1
        Major contributors fighting GW:

        David & Charles Koch, 48.5 million from 1997 to 2008. 24.9 million of that disbursed from 05 to 08.

        Exxon, 24 million from 1997 to 2008.

        The only use you seem to have for the poorest of the world is to occasionally pretend that you are on their side.

        If you have anything beyond your opinion to bring to the table, do so.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (April 06, 2010 5:36 pm ET)
          3 6
          I just gave you two examples above. Work on those first.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (April 06, 2010 7:12 pm ET)
            3 1
            He would, only the article you didn't read already addressed them. As did all the previous articles, posters and countless climate scientists for the past 20 years.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (April 06, 2010 10:51 pm ET)
            2  
            Refresh them for me. You've offered naught but opinion as far as my old tried eyes can see.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (April 07, 2010 12:10 am ET)
              2 2
              These are the two things he's talking about.

              Because, see, he doesn't want to TALK about the actual topic of discussion. He's trying to derail the thread distract us in any way possible!

              Most left wing policies have detrimental effects on the poorest people. Like illegal immigration, and the minimum wage.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by eweston8542983 (April 07, 2010 12:57 am ET)
                3  
                He offers no support for either. Which puts them solidly into the opinion column, in my book.

                Yah I'm familiar with RO's various rhetorical tap dances.

                my original post was directed to the faux hippy, who has gone into lockdown it seems.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mary59 (April 07, 2010 9:36 am ET)
                  4 1
                  I'm suspicious of people pretending to be hippies, who hide behind boulders when challenged in any way. Gives real hippies a bad rap.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (April 07, 2010 6:28 pm ET)
                  1  
                  And yeah, I noticed that someone with one screen name thought you were replying to him and his points, when you were actually trying to reply to another person. That can mean that someone was clueless, or they have (at least) a couple of sockpuppet identities, and forgot which one they were posing as!
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:15 am ET)
            2  
            Yea but you didn't bother to explain how minimum wage is detrimental to the poor.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:11 am ET)
        1 1
        oil will run out and likely during the lifetime of the current youngest generation. That is not something we should consider as irrelevant right now. You have to start somewhere in this transition. This year is as good as any. If we wait too long in trying to ween ourselves off fossil fuels, the results will be catastrophic. There are many different types of energy reform legislation. Not all of them have anything to do with any other nation but our own.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by alienofwar (April 06, 2010 8:20 pm ET)
      3  
      98% of Climate Scientists who are ACTIVE in their research say global warming is real and that humans are contributing to it:

      http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/01/19/eco.globalwarmingsurvey/index.html

      You can choose to believe Glenn Beck or you can choose to believe the scientists who make it their sole profession to study this area of science. I choose the latter.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by SLRTX (April 06, 2010 11:05 pm ET)
      5 1
      As a skeptic who agrees with the consensus regarding AGW/ACC, I'm still looking for rational, solid evidence that AGW is not real.

      Blogs like climatedepot and wattsupwiththat, make a lot of noise about nit-picky issues that have nothing to do with debunking the evidence supporting AGW.

      Or they just derail to Al Gore, Phil Jones, the IPCC, or other non-science junk.

      Ok anti-AGW skeptics. Show you are rational. Prove your point. Where's the evidence that has NOT been debunked?

      I just did a review of Der Spiegel's article about AGW. I noticed it was immediately picked up by the anti-AGW blogs. But either they didn't read the article, or their filtering out all the inconsistencies and out-right lies.

      See, it's hard for this skeptic to believe the anti-AGW crowd. I just can't find anything that makes RATIONAL sense coming from your side.

      C'mon anti-AGW skeptics. Prove me wrong. Make my day. If ya got the goods, use them. Or, you can always try to debunk my timeline. All that data piled up before Mann, before Gore, before Jones and before the IPCC.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 06, 2010 11:30 pm ET)
        1 3
        Dear SLRTX;
        Where's the evidence that has NOT been debunked?

        Want to defend the predicted disappearance of the Himalayan glaciers by 2030? It's in the IPCC/4.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mary59 (April 06, 2010 11:43 pm ET)
          3 1
          From above article (you really should read it sometime):

          REALITY: Despite IPCC error on Himalayan glaciers, studies show that glaciers are melting all over the world. The IPCC recently acknowledged and apologized for erroneously citing claims that Himalayan glaciers would melt by 2035. However, the IPCC report highlights legitimate scientific studies showing that glaciers worldwide are melting.

          Studies show the world's glaciers are melting rapidly. The World Glacier Monitoring Service (WGMS) issued a report in March 2008 showing that, according to a United Nations Environment Program press release, for 30 of the world's glaciers, "the average rate of melting and thinning more than doubled" in a year's time. WGMS later updated its data for 2007-08 and said that the "new data continues the global trend in strong ice loss over the past few decades." Moreover, scientists at the ETH Zurich university reportedly issued a study in 2009 showing that Swiss glaciers had retreated by 12 percent over the past decade.

          Glacier experts link melting glaciers to global warming. Glacier expert Michael Zemp is quoted in a CNN.com article as saying, "Glaciers are the best proof that climate change is happening. This is happening on a global scale. They can translate very small changes in the climate into a visible signal." And a January 20 Guardian article reported that "Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist at Ohio State University, said there is strong evidence from a variety of sources of significant melting of glaciers -- from the area around Kilimanjaro in Africa to the Alps, the Andes, and the icefields of Antarctica because of a warming climate. Ice is also disappearing at a faster rate in recent decades, he said."
          Report Abuse
        • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 11:49 pm ET)
          1  
          And in true scientific fashion the typo when pointed out was acknowledged and the accurate information was disseminated.

          But Pachauri admitted in an IPCC statement (pdf) that in this case "the clear and well-established standards of evidence required by the IPCC procedures were not applied properly", and "poorly substantiated estimates" of the speed of glacier melting had made it into print.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (April 07, 2010 8:58 am ET)
          2 1
          edrossinoelwein9669 --

          "Want to defend the predicted disappearance of the Himalayan glaciers by 2030? It's in the IPCC/4."

          Please stick to rational evidence regarding climate change. Stick to scientific evidence. A mistake by the IPCC is not proof of anything other than sloppy work generating a report.

          There's a vast difference between compiling a report, and climate science.

          Try another way to disprove AGW. Attacking the IPCC won't get you to your goal.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by D-Man_Scientist (April 06, 2010 11:59 pm ET)
        1 1
        Your timeline seems fairly comprehensive, SLRTX, although I need to spend a good chunk of time giving it a thorough read. I'm looking forward to doing just that.

        I have a more casual interest in the entire climate change debate, I guess mainly because I haven't got the time to dig as deep as the subject requires. I have to agree that there is a lot of misinformation that one must sift through in order to find any credible data.

        From a personal standpoint, I've always been a proponent of the scientific method, and I almost always tend toward questioning 'authority', which I guess makes me something of a skeptic in the truer sense of the word. I must admit that my gut tells me to be wary of AGW and its supporting science, simply because many in that camp seem to be sounding an alarm and calling for immediate, drastic steps to attempt a correction. I'm no expert, so I don't know just how solid the science is, but it seems like some of the ideas intended to curb the threat could be very detrimental to the national, and global economies, so I worry, question, and advocate a more measured response along with further research.

        Regarding increased levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, I haven't committed to whether or not the effect is man-made or not. There are some interesting bits of research regarding fluctuations in atmospheric CO2 out there, though. One interesting article out of MIT and published by the NAS Here suggests that from the strontium isotope record, atmospheric CO2 levels are much lower now than in the past. I wouldn't mind your take on this methodology if you have any information.

        In addition, there is some good research on the effect of enriched levels of CO2 on plant development being conducted by a group called FACE that are supported by the U.S. Department of Energy, which indicate in some cases that plant growth, hardiness, soil moisture levels and ground level carbon sequestration are enhanced in CO2 enriched environments. Check it out here.

        Point here being that elevated CO2 may be natural, and may be beneficial in a warmer climate, while at the same time being somewhat self-managing.

        I'd like to get your opinions. They might help me formulate my own.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by internet soldier (April 07, 2010 7:55 am ET)
          4 1
          D man, it is good that you grasp the fact that you don't have the qualifications to have an informed opinion about the severity of Global Warming. The truth is, I'm sorry to say, you never will, and neither will anyone commenting here. This is why we must rely on meteorologists to make this determination for us.

          This may sound unappealing, the suggestion that we shouldn't figure it out for ourselves, but if we are honest with ourselves, we realize that the vast majority of "knowledge" we have, we did not learn on our own. For example, how do we know something as basic as "the earth revolves around the sun". For the vast majority of us, we know this because we were told so in childhood by an authority figure we believed to be reliable, and thought nothing of it afterwards.

          How about another example; the existance of atoms. On this issue we have absolutely nothing to hang our answer on except the fact that there is an overwhelming consensus among experts that they exist. We could never, even in principle, see atoms, as they are smaller than the wavelength of light (or at least that's what the experts tell us). Scientists have simply inferred that they exist, based (so they say) on the weighing of a tremendous amount of evidence.

          It is part of the human condition to be bombarded with far more information than we could possibly verify on our own, and we are often forced to chose which sources we deem trustworthy, and sometimes we will disagree on which ones are trustworthy. Acknowledging this is healthy. But what we must not do is to only listen to that which fits our prejudices. To say that we will accept the scientific consensus on gravity while rejecting the scientific consensus on man-made global warming is to be intellectually incoherent, and it is also a very dangerous habit to simply dismiss that which don't want to believe.

          As you may have guessed, I believe in man-made global warming, and my belief is based on the overwhelming concensus of qualified, respected climatologists; and don't be fooled, it is an overwhelming consensus accross many countries including the countries which have the most to lose if fossil fuels are phased out. Here's a snappy youtube vid presenting the bare basics of the science behind the theory of Global Warming.

          You can form your own opinion about this, but know that if you decide to reject the scientific consensus on Global Warming, you ought to be intellectually consistent and distrust all scientific consensuses. Which means you can forget about gravity, Mr. Also, know that you are suggesting there is a conspiracy involving tens of thousands of scientists across a hundred countries to make up a fake problem...for...some..reason.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (April 07, 2010 6:33 pm ET)
            1  
            And to add to your great post, not only is it beyond our capability to understand this stuff, it's beyond anyone in climate science to understand ALL this stuff.

            Scientists don't simply create something on their own - they build upon the work of others.

            And WRT Global Climate Change, there are a ton of building blocks that support the theory. In fact, there are way too many to ever demolish the supposition - that's why it's the overwhelming consensus. It's not one guy's work that can call this into question.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (April 07, 2010 9:27 am ET)
          3 1

          Whenever I see the argument that CO2 levels have been higher in the past, I don't usually see anything else offered. If anyone thinks higher CO2 levels in the past somehow disproves AGW, then I'd really like them to explain the mechanisms that caused higher CO2 levels then, and now. How are they the same? Could they be different? There's just a bit of detail that's left out of that position.

          Think rationally. All true rational skeptics, if they were really interested in finding the answers, should move beyond the "what" and try to understand "why".

          Your linked paper only tries to explain how CO2 can be sequestered via fresh rock exposure due plate tectonics and mountain building.

          On the geologic scale, the CO2 levels have decreased in the past 100mil years - but due to a lot of fresh rock exposure. So, I guess that explains why CO2 levels were so high in the past, but are now lower - it's in the rocks - and this can be verified via measuring strontium isotopes.

          http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/climatechange2/07_1.shtml
          http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/view.php?id=31182

          Recently though, we've seen a significant rise in CO2 since the mid-1800's. ALL evidence points to human activities causing this. There are no natural reasons for this rise in CO2, and this can be verified using - again - isotopes. But this time, we're using CO2 isotopes.

          Any anti-AGW skeptic needs to focus on the reasons for the current rise in CO2. What's causing that? Prove it is not caused by us.

          http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004/12/how-do-we-know-that-recent-cosub2sub-increases-are-due-to-human-activities-updated/
          http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-fingerprint-in-global-warming.html
          Report Abuse
        • Author by SLRTX (April 07, 2010 9:38 am ET)
          3  
          D-Man_Scientist -

          Forgot to address that thing about CO2 levels being beneficial.

          "may be beneficial in a warmer climate, while at the same time being somewhat self-managing."

          I'd be interested to understand what you mean by "self-managing". That flies against the measured free-CO2 in the atmosphere. Nothing is "self-managing" about it.

          As for CO2 being "beneficial":

          What about societies that rely on glacial melts for water?

          What about the Inuit in North America who live on eroding tundra?

          What about the island societies that could get swamped from rising oceans?

          And what about increasing acidity in the oceans? I guess we don’t need to eat all that seafood anyway.

          These are all very strong indications that AGW is not so beneficial after all.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by internet soldier (April 07, 2010 12:30 pm ET)
            1  
            And of course, at the risk being tedious, it must noted that if one wishes to know whether more CO2 is always beneficial, one need only consider the climate of Venus.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by D-Man_Scientist (April 07, 2010 5:00 pm ET)
              2
            Good points, all. Good links too.

            Like I indicated above, it's really just my gut that tells me to be wary. No suggestion of conspiracy, but I have to at least listen to my feelings.

            It's often hard to dismiss the alarmist static that comes from both sides of this subject, and has a tendency to color the entire discourse. I appreciate your measured and sensible feedback, which is sometimes hard to come by. When an issue polarizes groups like AGW does, I become instinctively distrustful of both sides expert opinions. Looking at information through the lens of the common person, like the folks on this site and others, can help to bring greater understanding. Some people don't get that about me, and believe that because I don't land squarely on either side of an issue, I must be some kind of agitator. I am just seeking truth and clarity.

            SLRTX, when I was mentioning the CO2 cycle being self managing, perhaps self regulating would have been a better term. Just looks like some of the FACE studies suggest that in addition to increases in biomass, water utilization, etc., that in the CO2 enriched atmosphere studies there was also a corresponding increase in ground level carbon sequestration...sorry for any misunderstanding there.

            Ghost, you mention deferring to the scientific consensus, which is, I agree supportive of AGW, but I'm just not built that way, for the reasons I stated above. I have to question, and learn, all aspects of an issue. I must take slight issue with your comment on gravity, though. I understand your hyperbole, but nobody's arguing about the effects of gravity. The mechanics and underlying physics, sure, but not its effect. Reminds me of a line from a bad 80's movie...Real Genius, I think. Val Kilmer is standing on his head and asks a couple of guys who are looking at him like he's completely mad, "would you be prepared if gravity reversed itself?"

            Thanks for the dialogue.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by SLRTX (April 08, 2010 9:55 am ET)
                 
              D-Man_Scientist --

              No problem. It's ok to be a rational skeptic, no matter which side of an issue you are on.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 06, 2010 11:25 pm ET)
      3 6
      Rule #1. Science is the determination of the veracity of an hypothesis by verification, not consensus. Consensus is opinion. AGW is not science, it is opinion. And it is only opinion, because it cannot be demonstrated to be true. What cannot be demonstrated to be true, cannot be scientifically accredited. AGW is, to put it quite bluntly, bunk.
      The boys at NASA, NOAA, CRU, are frauds. The 'Hockey stick' is a fraud. The IPCC/4 is a fraud.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mary59 (April 06, 2010 11:41 pm ET)
        6 2
        Yeah all those nasty science guys are frauds. 'cause it's their opinion, unlike your proclamations.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 07, 2010 12:04 am ET)
          6 1
          You have to admit, it's cute when wingnuts make up a definition that supports their position (even labeling it as a numbered rule, for extra-special authenticity), then make their argument based on that definition / rule. How convenient. An unfortunate side-effect of being educated in logic by uneducated simpletons like Rush Limbaugh.

          Dennis Prager is one of my favorite right wing radio clowns for using this technique. He has a bag full of self-serving definitions, not to mention handy " established facts" ( opinions he has stated earlier) to lead into his decisive " Therefore..." moments of brilliance.

          Do they not really understand that the "consensus" part comes along only after a ton of work in the "science" department, or are wingnuts that gullible ?

          sci·ence
          n.
          1.
          a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.


          And that's from The Free Dictionary. You'd think that even cheapskate Republicans would take advantage of that before making fools of themselves by trying to pass off their make-believe definitions.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 07, 2010 11:00 pm ET)
              2
            AGW proves the truth of a statement made by G.K. Chesterton: when men cease to believe in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.
            Oh, by the way, there is no basic difference between my "made-up" definition of science and your 'quote' from the Free dictionary.
            But then, in order to hold to a 'science' based on consensus, you have to maintain a certain degree of gullibility. Sure hope it works out for you.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 08, 2010 9:24 am ET)
                 
              : when men cease to believe in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.


              One of the silliest, most self-serving of famous quotes ever.

              ...there is no basic difference between my "made-up" definition of science and your 'quote' from the Free dictionary


              Yes, there is. There's an even bigger difference between the real definition of science, and your interpretation (misunderstanding) of scientific consensus.

              in order to reject a 'science' based on research and consensus, you have to maintain a certain degree of gullibility


              Fixed.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (April 06, 2010 11:59 pm ET)
        4 1
        Honey, you really need to find out what "scientific consensus" means before you try to talk about it again.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 07, 2010 12:06 am ET)
          4  
          He's just regurgitating, RTM. It probably sounded really smart when the man on the radio said it.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:33 am ET)
        2  
        This post is a fraud - you are saying that the science is a fraud because consensus is an opinion? Consensus is not an opinion - it is a demonstratable fact. Just ask everyone working in a particular field what their research had concluded as long as they have been researching the particular topic. Researchers have reached a consensus based on the research that this is occurring.

        You are basically saying no one can be sure on anything, so why even try? So I guess you never go to doctors because they have no idea how to treat people as it is only based on flawed opinion and no one has demonstrated anything in medicine to be true right? Why bother even taking antibiotics to combat infection? Why do anything? Because nothing can have scientific consensus right? How do you think the medical world finds the best treatment? They do research and the medical community forms a consensus - like HAART drugs are effective in prolonging the life of AIDS patients and bronchodilators help treat asthma and insulin injections combating diabetes. How do we know this? Why do we do this? Its not just because it works or at least it wasn't at first. These things were tested in research facilities and not on humans at all. But the research community established consensus that this therapy might work for this disease and the medical community reached the consensus that that drug is effective. Is this my opinion? It is an empirical fact. It is supported by evidence.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by SLRTX (April 07, 2010 10:30 am ET)
        2  
        edrossinoelwein9669 --

        "The boys at NASA, NOAA, CRU, are frauds. The 'Hockey stick' is a fraud. The IPCC/4 is a fraud."

        You seem to be spending a lot of time focusing your anger at people and institutions.

        Just how does this make AGW bunk, as you so bluntly claim?

        If AGW is not science, then care to present where you get your scientific evidence that AGW is bunk?

        Is it possible you can act rationally and focus on climate science?

        Or, is your post just another rant of a denialist?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 07, 2010 11:37 pm ET)
             
          The real debate about AGW is not about CO2 concentrations - doubling will only cause a +1.2C, which is not significant. The alarmists are postulating that positive 'feedbacks' will fuel the catastrophic rises in temperatures they predict. Those feedbacks are in no way settled in science - yet they are the basis for the 'alarmist's' predictions. For instance: "All leading climate models forecast that as the atmosphere warms there should be an increase in high altitude cirrus clouds, which would amplify any warming caused by manmade greenhouse gases," he said. "That amplification is a positive feedback. What we found in month-to-month fluctuations of the tropical climate system was a strongly negative feedback. As the tropical atmosphere warms, cirrus clouds decrease. That allows more infrared heat to escape from the atmosphere to outer space." http://www.uah.edu/news/newsread.php?newsID=875
          Report Abuse
          • Author by SLRTX (April 08, 2010 9:45 am ET)
               
            edrossinoelwein9669 --

            You play fast and loose with the "alarmist" term. Call me whatever you want. I'm just your typical skeptic, but I'm a bit more rational than you seem to think. I just happen to be skeptical of your claims, because they seem dubious, and carefully selected.

            Your phrasing, "catastrophic rises in temperatures", seems alarmist, even to this skeptic. I don't hear rational pro-AGW skeptics making that claim. Perhaps this is coming from the irrational anti-AGW adherrents (a.k.a "denialists")?

            "Those feedbacks are in no way settled in science - yet they are the basis for the 'alarmist's' predictions."

            There's that "alarmist" tag again.

            You imply that all these feedback loops are confusing everyone. There's weeping and gnashing of teeth back at the climate scientist lair!

            Not at all. The only people who are confused about this are the laymen, media folks, and bloggers who don't study this for a living.

            It is true that the degree of the effects of the feedback loops (negative and positive) are still under study, but their effects are pretty well understood.

            http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/gases.html

            http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/07/runaway-tipping-points-of-no-return/

            Regardless how much the anti-AGW crowd tries to throw confusion and obfuscation into the debate, the understanding of this is a bit better than they'd like others to believe. And the more I deal with some anti-AGW folks, for them, belief trumps evidence.

            http://www.slrtx.com/blog/climate-change-debate/
            Report Abuse
    • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (April 07, 2010 1:00 am ET)
      1 5
      MYTH: "Global warming" is real. It is a Marxist redistributionist scheme by watermelons. Watermelons are green on the outside and red on teh inside.

      They pretend to care about the environment, but it is only a Trojan Horse with which to institute Marxism. It is a complete and total hoax and fraud.

      Anyone who believes in "global warming" is gullible and naive. They probably believe in the tooth fairy as well.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by mmfa.fan (April 07, 2010 1:42 am ET)
        3 1


        Anyone who believes in "global warming" is gullible and naive. They probably believe in the tooth fairy as well.


        Says the bible-thumper. You've got no credibility, clown. I'll take the judgement of the experts over your tired, empty rhetoric any day, thanks.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (April 07, 2010 2:35 am ET)
          1 5
          The "experts" all have political agendas. They follow the money. They tell their government paymasters what they want to hear to continue the funding gravy train. If they told the truth and stated the obvious that "global warming" is a hoax, they would not receive any more funding.

          Others are hard core liberal ideologues. They cite an article in Runner's World to "prove" the Himalayan glaciers are melting (even if they were, so what?).

          Man of these "scientists" have been outed as frauds. Michael Mann, Phil Jones and many others are con men.

          Polls show that the majority of Americans are no longer buying this crap.

          Did you ever put an ice cube in a glass of iced tea on a hot July day? When the ice cube melts, does your glass over flow? Why not? Who the hell cares if the Arctic polar ice cap melts? I don't believe it is, but even if it were so what? Who cares? Screw the polar bears - I care about people.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:40 am ET)
            1 1
            So beck doesn't have an agenda??
            Report Abuse
          • Author by mmfa.fan (April 07, 2010 3:44 am ET)
            2 2
            The "experts" all have political agendas. They follow the money.


            You don't know anything about science. The assertion that scientists in general have no professional integrity is laughable and unsupported by any data. Professional organizations that scientists belong to are not going to stake their reputation on bogus claims for the sake of monetary gain for individual members. That's ludicrous. If anything, your argument would support the view that those who deny that climate change is caused by human activity are in the pockets of industry.

            Polls show that the majority of Americans are no longer buying this crap.


            And what percentage of Americans believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or that Obama was born in Kenya? Just because people believe something doesn't make it true. The majority of people are not climatologists, or even scientists for that matter.

            Did you ever put an ice cube in a glass of iced tea on a hot July day? When the ice cube melts, does your glass over flow?


            Wow, thanks Bill Nye. You're ignoring the very fact of adding the ice cube in the first place. Of course ice occupies more space than water, but that's beside the point. It doesn't matter if the ice cube is solid or (melted) liquid, adding it to the glass of water increases the volume of water. And here's a bit more basic science for you: The ocean expands as it warms. It also becomes more acidic as it absorbs more carbon.

            Screw the polar bears - I care about people.


            So caring about animals (which are part of the food chain on which human health and welfare depends) and caring about people are mutually exclusive? What a sad, bleak world of binary thought you dwell in. You also should have added that you care about people like yourself, and no one else, as that would be more accurate.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (April 07, 2010 1:21 pm ET)
                3
              I care about the status of animals. I prefer that they be medium rare when they are on my dinner plate.

              The icecap have always been at the North Pole. We are not adding more water. Ice is frozen water - how does it add carbon to the oceans?

              I admit science is not my forte (I took only as many science classes as I had to in college in order to graduate), but I have a pretty good BS detector and this "global warming" triggers my BS detector. I look at the people making the claim, and they all have agendas. I don't think Al Gore give a whit about the environment -- he wouldn't fly in a private jet and have an astronomical electrity bill if he did. He is merely seizing upon the issue to line his own pockets. I think th emajority of "global warming" alarmists are like Al Gore - they are in it for the money or the power.

              They don't care about the environment - I actually do what a clean environment.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by mmfa.fan (April 07, 2010 3:04 pm ET)
                1 1
                I care about the status of animals. I prefer that they be medium rare when they are on my dinner plate.


                Good one, Limbaugh! If you want to continue eating them then you'd better care whether animals go extinct or not. And if you care about 'people' as you claim, then what about the people in the far north that depend on the animals for their livelihood?

                The icecap have always been at the North Pole. We are not adding more water. Ice is frozen water - how does it add carbon to the oceans?


                Melting glaciers adds more water. You know that Greenland alone has glaciers about 11,000 feet thick? That's a lot of water to add to the oceans, not to mention glaciers that are melting in the southern hemisphere as well.

                I didn't say that ice adds carbon to the ocean. The oceans absorb some of the carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere, making the oceans more acidic. This is basic stuff, are you seriously unaware of this?

                I admit science is not my forte (I took only as many science classes as I had to in college in order to graduate), but I have a pretty good BS detector and this "global warming" triggers my BS detector


                No, no you don't. If you did it would explode from your own posts every day. How can you have such a strong and categorical opinion on something you admit you know nothing about? Who are you to impugn the motives of an entire profession anyway? You think people go into science for the money? And 'power'? What power? What a joke.

                They don't care about the environment - I actually do what a clean environment.


                If you cared about the environment you would take the time to do careful research on something as important as this, and you haven't. I haven't heard one thing from you that suggests that you care about the environment. The people you claim 'don't care' are doing a hell of a lot more on a daily basis to help the environment than you probably ever have in your life.

                If you don't think climate change is disrupting ecosystems already then you don't read scientific publications and just aren't paying attention. You're such a phony and a liar, it makes me sick. I really hope you're just pretending to be this hateful, ignorant weasel and aren't really like this in real life.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by JimmyCraghorn (April 07, 2010 4:56 pm ET)
                1  
                BJF: I prefer that they be medium rare when they are on my dinner plate.

                If thats the case, I hope you have chicken tonight.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (April 07, 2010 11:35 pm ET)
                    1
                  That's actually mildly funny. Hats off to you Mr. Leno.
                  Report Abuse
          • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 07, 2010 7:54 pm ET)
               
            Did you ever put an ice cube in a glass of iced tea on a hot July day? When the ice cube melts, does your glass over flow?


            Flipping beautiful, BJFan. Just when I think you're toning your act down, and trying to pass yourself off as a real right wing nut, you plop down a knee-slapper like this, and I remember you're just a clown doing a parody of a right wing nut.

            The funniest part is, some other wingnut is probably going to think that makes sense, and use it in their future "debates". Kudos !
            Report Abuse
      • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:36 am ET)
        3  
        thank you glenn beck - so nice of you to basically quote yourself word for word for us.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by Sharpe (April 07, 2010 3:40 am ET)
        3  
        A myth is usually followed by some sort of fact to refute it. It is a telling sign that you say myth and then, of course, you have no facts to refute your idiotic claims. Once again, proving to us all, that you are an empty bag of opinions supported by no evidence except that some moron who never went to college told you that and he is now your cult leader.

        A metaphor doesn't actually prove anything - it is just a pretty distraction. Here is a tip - the people who are gullible, are the ones that hang on every word a high school graduate who dropped out of his only college course says.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 07, 2010 11:41 pm ET)
           
        Where have all the Commies gone, long time passing?
        Where have all the Commies gone, long time passing?
        All become greenies, everyone
        When will they ever learn?
        When will they ever learn?
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Don Quixote (April 07, 2010 10:58 am ET)
      4 1
      Conservofascist stupidity is getting downright hazardous, not only to national security, but the global well-being. Using their logic, if the few cold winter storms disprove global warming, then the recent record-breaking heat waves in the east necessarily prove global warming.

      C'mon, conservofascists, fair is fair now. You have to admit that your own tortured logic and fallacious reasoning "proves" the existence of global warming now that it's hotter than ever for this time of year.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by edrossinoelwein9669 (April 07, 2010 10:46 pm ET)
      1 2
      Myth: Anthropogenic Global Warming
      Report Abuse
      • Author by Andy Kreiss (April 08, 2010 9:26 am ET)
           
        As Sharpe pointed out already, you need to finish that thought. With some "facts" or something.
        Report Abuse