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See no evil: Hannity, Palin dismiss concerns about racial profiling in AZ law

April 28, 2010 12:35 pm ET — 69 Comments

Fox News figures Sean Hannity and Sarah Palin have rejected concerns that Arizona's new immigration law will lead to racial profiling because the law says police may not "solely" consider "race, color or national origin ... except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." However, the law does allow for race to be a consideration, and legal experts, as well as several Fox News figures and prominent conservatives, have argued that this will lead to some form of racial profiling.

Hannity, Palin dismiss concerns that AZ law could lead to civil rights violations

Hannity: "[R]acial profiling is explicitly prohibited." Hannity stated on the April 27 edition of his Fox News program: "Now, [if] protesters actually sat down to read the law, they would find that racial profiling is explicitly prohibited." Hannity later added, "It does not encourage profiling. It specifically prohibits it."

Palin: "There is no ability or opportunity in there for the racial profiling." Appearing on the April 27 edition of Hannity, Fox News contributor Sarah Palin stated that "[t]here is no ability or opportunity in there for the racial profiling. And shame on the lame stream media again for turning this into something that it is not." Palin added, "I think it's shameful, too, that the Obama administration has allowed, too, this to become more of a racial issue by perpetuating this myth that racial profiling is a part of this law."

Kobach: "[T]he law actually reduces the likelihood of racial profiling." University of Missouri law professor Kris Kobach, who helped draft SB 1070 and is running as a Republican for Kansas secretary of state, wrote in a April 28 Washington Times op-ed that by requiring officers "to contact the federal government to verify a person's immigration status," the law "takes any consideration of race out of the equation." From the op-ed:

Myth No. 2: The law will encourage racial profiling. The terms of the act make clear that such profiling cannot occur. Section 2 provides that a law enforcement official "may not solely consider race, color, or national origin" in making any stops or determining an alien's immigration status. In addition, all of the normal Fourth Amendment protections against racial profiling still apply.

Moreover, the law actually reduces the likelihood of racial profiling by forcing police officers to contact the federal government to verify a person's immigration status when they suspect a person is an illegal alien. It already was permissible for police officers across the country to make arrests for violations of federal immigration law where reasonable suspicion existed that a violation had occurred. Now, in Arizona, officers will have to make a phone call to Immigration and Customs Enforcement's (ICE) 24/7 hot line to confirm that any aliens in their custody really are present unlawfully. Officers can no longer proceed based solely on their own assessment of a person's immigration status. In this way, the Arizona law takes any consideration of race out of the equation - strengthening the protections against racial profiling.

AZ law allows police to take race into account

AZ law: Law enforcement "may not solely consider race, color or national origin...except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution." SB 1070 states:

For any lawful contact made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.  Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released.  The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c).  A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. 

Gov. Brewer: "I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like." As Newsweek reported on April 27, "the statute fails to specify any characteristics or behaviors that law enforcement should focus on to determine whether there's a reasonable suspicion that someone is in the country illegally." During a press conference, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer stated, "I do not know what an illegal immigrant looks like." She added that "I know if AZPOST (Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board) gets theirselves together, works on this law, puts down the description, that the law will be enforced civilly, fairly, and without discriminatory points to it." AZPOST is tasked with creating guidelines for law enforcement to use when implementing SB 1070.

No consensus on a definition for racial profiling

Janet Napolitano: Some define "any reliance on race/ethnicity" as racial profiling; others say "sole reliance on race/ethnicity" constitutes profiling. In a 2001 report, then-Arizona Attorney General Janet Napolitano stated:

It is essential to first define racial profiling as a legal term of art in order to seek recommendations for its eradication. There are essentially two views among law enforcement agencies and civil rights organizations in defining prohibited conduct in stopping or arresting an individual: any reliance on race/ethnicity (the broad definition); or sole reliance on race/ethnicity (the narrow definition).

ACLU: Narrow definition of racial profiling is "unacceptable" because it "would eliminate the vast majority of racial profiling now occurring." The American Civil Liberties Union stated in 2005 that defining racial profiling "as relying 'solely' on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin or religion" would "eliminate the vast majority of racial profiling now occurring":

Defining racial profiling as relying "solely" on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin or religion can be problematic. This definition found in some state racial profiling laws is unacceptable, because it fails to include when police act on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin or religion in combination with an alleged violation of all law. Under the "solely" definition, an officer who targeted Latino drivers who were speeding would not be racial profiling because the drivers were not stopped "solely" because of their race but also because they were speeding. This would eliminate the vast majority of racial profiling now occurring.

Many legal experts question how law will be enforced without some form of racial profiling

James Doty: New law is "vulnerable to the argument that it essentially criminalizes walking while Hispanic." Lawyer James Doty wrote on April 26 that "no one has come up" with an answer to the question, " What do illegal immigrants look like? " that doesn't invoke ethnicity. Doty further wrote: "The new law, on its face, doesn't make racial distinctions, but its supporters haven't articulated any other grounds for suspecting that someone is an unlawful resident. It is, therefore, vulnerable to the argument that it essentially criminalizes walking while Hispanic," and that "[t]he law seems to require that officers demand documentation from suspected aliens based on mere hunches -- a clear violation of the Constitution."

U.S. Civil Rights Commissioner: "[I]t is reasonable to presume that the first threshold test will be whether a person looks to be of Mexican or Latino descent. Period." Michael Yaki, an attorney and member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, wrote on April 26:

What kind of "suspicious" characteristics will law enforcement be looking for? Judging by the zealous defense offered by commenters that Arizona shares a border with Mexico, it is reasonable to presume that the first threshold test will be whether a person looks to be of Mexican or Latino descent. Period. Argue against it all you want, but the undeniable, irrefutable fact is that skin color and ethnic heritage is the numero uno feature that will trigger further inquiries by Arizona cops. Doesn't matter if you've been here 30 years or 30 seconds -- you are fair game under the law. And give me any other "characteristic" of the so-called typical illegal immigrant, and I can show you a red-blooded native-born American who will fit the same bill.

University of Arizona law professor: "If you look Mexican or Hispanic or Asian or Black, then you should carry ID." University of Arizona law professor Gabriel Chin responded to the question, " Do I need to have my ID card on me at all times in case an officer suspects I'm in the country illegally?" by stating:

If the person was born in Mexico and doesn't have satisfactory identification, I would think there is probable cause to arrest that person for violation of this section: There is evidence they are not a U.S. citizen (foreign birth), they do not have any evidence they are authorized to live in the United States. . . . I would say the answer is: If you look Mexican or Hispanic or Asian or Black, then you should carry ID because there's already some evidence that you could fall into this category.

Immigration attorney William Sanchez: "How do you determine that you have reasonable suspicion that someone may have violated an immigration law?" During the April 24 edition of CNN Newsroom, immigration attorney William Sanchez stated, "How do you determine that you have reasonable suspicion that someone may have violated an immigration law?" Sanchez added, "The color of the skin and the way they dress and the actions and places they go, the language that they speak. It allows for racial profiling, unquestionably."

ASU law professor: SB 1070 "is almost inevitably going to be enforced in a racially discriminatory way." The Arizona Republic reported that Paul Bender, a professor of law at Arizona State University's Sandra Day O'Connor College of Law stated, "That is almost inevitably going to be enforced in a racially discriminatory way, because how are the police going to have a 'reasonable suspicion' that you're here illegally?" Bender further said, "They're not going to ask every Anglo that they stop for speeding to show their immigration documents. If they did, we wouldn't have them and we'd all go to jail. They're going to ask the people who look Hispanic. Some of them are not going to have them, and they are going to be arrested."

Arizona attorney: SB 1070 allows "racial profiling and discrimination, as long as the government is not 100 percent racially motivated." The New York Times reported, "Julie Pace, an Arizona lawyer who brought suit challenging the 2007 law, issued, with her colleagues, an analysis of the new law arguing that 'the word 'solely' makes this purported anti-discrimination provision an authorization to allow racial profiling and discrimination, as long as the government is not 100 percent racially motivated.'"

Georgetown law professor: "In practice, it is inevitable that this law will lead to racial profiling." Newsweek reported that David Cole, Georgetown University Law Center professor said, "In practice, it is inevitable that this law will lead to racial profiling." Cole further stated, "People don't wear signs saying that they are illegal immigrants, nor do illegal immigrants engage in any particular behavior that distinguishes them from legal immigrants and citizens. So police officers will not stop white people, and will stop Latinos, especially poor Latinos."

Conservatives, including several on Fox News, have expressed concerns about the law leading to racial profiling

Jeb Bush: "It's difficult for me to imagine how you're going to enforce this law." Politico reported on April 27 that former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush stated of the Arizona law: "I think it creates unintended consequences," and that "It's difficult for me to imagine how you're going to enforce this law. It places a significant burden on local law enforcement and you have civil liberties issues that are significant as well."

Marco Rubio: SB 1070 could "unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens." Florida Senate candidate Marco Rubio stated, "From what I have read in news reports, I do have concerns about this legislation.  While I don't believe Arizona's policy was based on anything other than trying to get a handle on our broken borders, I think aspects of the law, especially that dealing with 'reasonable suspicion,' are going to put our law enforcement officers in an incredibly difficult position.  It could also unreasonably single out people who are here legally, including many American citizens."

Huckabee: "[T]here is no such thing" as "American looking." During the April 24 broadcast of Fox News' Fox & Friends Saturday, Mike Huckabee stated, "They're going to get sued. I predict they're going to lose. Because if you stop somebody and say, you know, he just doesn't look American to me, what does that mean? Walk the streets of New York and tell me, how do you know who's the American-looking, because there is no such thing."

Krauthammer: "[I]t could lead to a lot of civil rights abuses." Conservative commentator Charles Krauthammer stated on the April 21 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier that states are "trying to pass laws where you catch somebody already in the U.S. and it's really hard to discern who is and who is not illegal. Look, if you're at the border and somebody is climbing over the fence, you have a pretty high certainty it's an illegal. Now if somebody is standing outside a Home Depot who doesn't speak English, well he could be or he could not be. So it could lead to a lot of civil rights abuses. But the problem is ultimately that the feds haven't acted."

Andrew Napolitano: "The law has to have standards in it" or "there would be a different standard for each police officer." During the April 27 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano stated, "Think about it. The police are going to stop somebody on the basis of where they look and say I think you're here illegally, give me your papers." He added, "The problem with the law is that it's subjective. What's reasonable suspicion to you might be unreasonable suspicion to me. The law has to have standards in it. Otherwise police could stop people for any reason they wanted and there would be a different standard for each police officer. That's the importance of that question to the governor. Can you tell and illegal alien from a legal alien by looking at them? She said of course I can't. Neither can the police."

Fox News figures and others have endorsed racial profiling

Cafferty: "[C]ritics say that would lead to racial profiling. Well, so what?" During the April 20 broadcast of CNN's The Situation Room, Jack Cafferty stated, "The state senate has passed a tough new immigration law that will force police to arrest people who can't prove they're in the country legally. Now critics say that would lead to racial profiling. Well, so what?" Cafferty added, "The state's governor has five days to either veto the bill or sign it into law. Do the right thing, governor."

Crowder: Nothing wrong with law's racial profiling. During the April 23 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Fox News contributor Steven Crowder said that there's racial profiling in the law and "I don't think there's really anything wrong as far as racial profiling, stopping people who are coming in illegally. I mean, you're not looking for a blond haired, blue eyed Swede most of the time."

Gutfeld: Racial profiling a no-brainer. On the April 21 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Red Eye host Greg Gutfeld said of the law: "A lot of the critics are saying this is racial profiling. Duh! They're coming from another country. That's what you do. You have to look at them and see who they are before you know they're legal or illegal. I don't think that's a fair criticism."

Gallagher dismisses racial profiling concerns. On the April 23 edition of his Salem Radio program, radio host and Fox News contributor Mike Gallagher told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, "Sign it, baby, sign it" and that the Arizona legislature is his "new hero." After Wallace noted concerns about civil liberties, Gallagher said that "it's racial profiling, to be sure, cops know if there's a van full of dark-skinned men with lawnmowers packed into the back of a pick-up truck...that's what they're talking about."

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    • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 12:46 pm ET)
      15 5
      This is one of those instances where these knee-jerk conservatives, reflexively for anything Obama is against or vice versa, play stupid word parsing games. You can call it racial profiling or not but it doesn't change what it is. Which is a cop can pull over someone over if they feel like it, basically.

      That is very troubling and reason enough for me to oppose this law.

      Hannity and Palin can't be bothered with their own credibility, it doesn't exist.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by IRONY 101 (April 28, 2010 12:52 pm ET)
        6 1
        Hannity and Palin believe that police are all fair-minded, honorable people who never lie or bend the law. I think they also believe in the Easter Bunny...
        Report Abuse
        • Author by cst (April 28, 2010 1:42 pm ET)
          2 1
          I have to disagree- they don't WANT the police to be fair. They want them to be in THEIR pocket.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by bintx (April 28, 2010 1:04 pm ET)
        1 2
        Agreed, right on.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by jediknight65 (April 28, 2010 1:12 pm ET)
        1 1
        Bravo! for once i agree with you and applaud you for this. well done
        Report Abuse
      • Author by poproxx77 (April 29, 2010 12:23 am ET)
        3 1
        When did you switch to the dark side right on?

        I'll walk you through this one step at a time.

        1- 1070 states clearly that State agents are to adhere to the constitution.

        2- The constitution clearly states that profiling is illegal. 4th ammendment.

        3- Terry vs. Ohio clearly allows reasonable suspicion as cause for search and seizure.

        4- Terry vs. Ohio also defines the judicial constraints placed on law enforcement. Meaning being brown, or profuse sweating, nervousness, walking to the corner market, are not considered reasonable suspicion.

        The left tried to make this a racist issue. IT ISN"T. The left tried to make this NAZI legislation. IT ISN"T. The left likes to suck government tit, IT DOES.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mari2jj (April 29, 2010 2:59 am ET)
          1  
          I am one of the moderate Republicans and I am positive it is racial profiling because many such cases have already been tried that involved racial profiling of Hispanics. The cops have harassed those who descended thos here long before it was part of America. Thes folks were asked to prove they belong here even they had lived here all their lives. Spanish families were here when the US acquired the Arizona area. It has already happened and this law will just legalize it till it gets tested at the SC. I doubt even the very conservative SC will allow this law to continue when they see the racial bias it enshrines.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 1:16 pm ET)
      3 12
      When I get pulled over what does a cop ask me for? Also, I don't think there are a lot of illegal irish people in Arizona but if there were the law applies to them to. If the federal government won't inforce the law, who does? I comes down to the states. So, I ask you libs how you would go about inforcing current immigration law?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 1:21 pm ET)
        4 4
        Sea,

        I hear your frustration and I share it. If the feds would have handled this issue, their obligation, then there would have been no need for this law. But you can't blame the libs either. Bush was in charge for 8 years and what? Border enforcement sucked, it wasn't on his radar at all. You can't pin this on Obama. We need serious politicians who will commit to securing our borders first. No talk of amnesty or comprehensive baloney until that is done, enforce the laws on the books.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 1:28 pm ET)
          1 8
          My brother in law is a captain in the border patrol in El Paso so I know what they have to deal with and I agree with you. The border has been handled badly for many many years. But, just how are we to inforce current law? It seems that the libs do not want to. Any effort is called racism by them.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 1:45 pm ET)
              2
            You and I probably agree on 90% of the issue, I just don't agree with this law for the reasons I stated. And I am very familiar with those who charge racism right out of the gate, no matter what. There are undoubtedly slimy racists who want to keep out immigrants because of their skin color, but many of us who want secure borders and our laws enforced are not. Unfounded racist accusations are as scurrilous as it comes, no argument from me on that.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 4:58 pm ET)
              3 1
              This is one of those instances where these knee-jerk conservatives, reflexively for anything Obama is against or vice versa, play stupid word parsing games. You can call it racial profiling or not but it doesn't change what it is. Which is a cop can pull over someone over if they feel like it, basically.

              That is very troubling and reason enough for me to oppose this law.

              Hannity and Palin can't be bothered with their own credibility, it doesn't exist. ---RO

              So you can call it racial profiling and it doesn't change what it is which described as a cop being able to pull someone over if they feel like it. Then like the slimeball you are go on to agree with this:

              When I get pulled over what does a cop ask me for? Also, I don't think there are a lot of illegal irish people in Arizona but if there were the law applies to them to. If the federal government won't inforce the law, who does? I comes down to the states. So, I ask you libs how you would go about inforcing current immigration law?---SH

              I will wait next time for I agree with anything you have you to say. Fool me once.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 5:01 pm ET)
                1 4
                Read it again before you haul out your insults. Since when did I agree with that? I couldn't care less whether you ever agree with me, you have no credibility. Grow up.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:33 pm ET)
                  6 1
                  You are the arbiter of credibility here? I read your post and you agreed with SH. As far you comments about growing up I've raised 3 grown independent black men all graduated from college so you can kiss my arse.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 5:36 pm ET)
                    1 6
                    Well, considering you make stuff up, please show me where I agreed with you said I did? I did not. So if all you have are lies, then yes, grow up.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:45 pm ET)
                      6  
                      I hear your frustration and I share it. --RO
                      You and I probably agree on 90% of the issue, I just don't agree with this law for the reasons I stated. And I am very familiar with those who charge racism right out of the gate, no matter what. There are undoubtedly slimy racists who want to keep out immigrants because of their skin color, but many of us who want secure borders and our laws enforced are not. Unfounded racist accusations are as scurrilous as it comes, no argument from me on that.--RO

                      Either this bill is a bill of racial profiling and racist or it is not. The accusations of racism about this bill are real or not. They are not unfounded.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 5:50 pm ET)
                        1 7
                        Read the string of posts you moron. I was responding to his "any charge" statement so I was speaking broadly on that. And yes, many who favor strict border enforcement are called racists, that was my point. If you can't wrap your mind around that, I don't care.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 6:03 pm ET)
                          5  
                          I must have read them a/hole because I provided your own words and in this case those who are calling racist about this bill are correct no need to quibble or parse words or throw crumbs to those who you think are frustrated. Palin and Hannity are frustrated too I suppose but it didn't stop you from calling them on it,I see no difference in what seahawks was saying. I could give a rats arse if you care what I have to say or not it won't stop me from calling out your hyprocrisy whenever I see it.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 6:11 pm ET)
                            1 6
                            You are a pathetic whining little victim and have no idea what you are even talking about. This is a bad bill because it infringes on citizen's rights to be free of some unwarranted police stop under the guise of reasonable suspicion.

                            Of course, race hustling victicrats like you live and breath race every moment of your life, and unless someone shares your every obsessive racially motivated breath, they are a hypocrite.

                            Wallow in your whine if you'd like. I don't care to join in. Now, grow up.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 6:39 pm ET)
                              5  
                              Oh I'am deeply hurt by your words. Hehe. Until you have walked in my shoes you have no idea what YOU are talking about. Very revealing that those who expose racism when they see it are called whinners. Sort of like the same thing Palin and Hannity were saying. You didn't really disagree with them now did you? You only wanted to sound a little more civil but now the real YOU has come out. Thanks for clarifying and finally exposing your hyprocrisy and why I called you on your parsing and quibbling. While the bill infringes on citizens rights to be free,1 and 3 citizens of Arizona or of Latino decent so while all will be affected guess who will be affected by this the most, the most unfree if you like and it will be because of the color of their skin or the way they talk or dress. This is a racist bill and will do nothing to solve the problem only exacerbate it and create more racism.


                              "...Maricopa County, in which Phoenix is located, is all too familiar with the problem of racial profiling. Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is subject of a Department of Justice investigation into rampant allegations of racial profiling and discrimination and has been named in 2,700 lawsuits. In North Carolina, researchers found that 287(g)’s have “created a climate of racial profiling and community insecurity” in communities across the state. According to a report by the ACLU, racial profiling in Gwinnet County, Georgia has been exacerbated by the 287(g) program. The ACLU received complaints from drivers, pedestrians, and Gwinnett community members showing that police officers are targeting immigrants and people of color for stops, searches, and interrogations.

                              A representative at ICE told 3TV that the incident was “standard operating procedure.” According to the spokesperson, the agents “needed to verify Abdon was in the country legally and it is not uncommon to ask for someone’s birth certificate.” Abdon’s wife however, has a different take, stating, “It doesn’t feel like it’s a good way of life, to live with fear, even though we are okay, we are legal…still have to carry documents around.”
                              http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/26/racial-profiling-arizona/

                              Now go change your Depends.


                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 6:44 pm ET)
                                1 6
                                But people like you fan the flames of racism, you don't want it diminished, much less eliminated. That is your phony dirty little secret, but not much of a secret anymore, is it? For if racism is not front and center then what are you going to whine about, and blame your ills on? That is why people like you are invested in keeping it alive and will gleefully use your charge of racism, warranted or not.

                                You feed off it as much as a real racist feeds off their own hatred. I hope you're proud of yourself.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 7:15 pm ET)
                                  4  
                                  Hehe. So those who expose racism are perpetuating it? Fanning the flames? Blaming ills? Mr. and Mrs. Abdon are blaming ills and whining? They are to blame for their harrassment? They are keeping racism alive? Why because they are brown and they talked about their experience? Does the bill and others like it have any responsibility? Here are some more whinners and perpetuators of racism:

                                  Immigration attorney William Sanchez: "How do you determine that you have reasonable suspicion that someone may have violated an immigration law?"

                                  Arizona attorney: SB 1070 allows "racial profiling and discrimination, as long as the government is not 100 percent racially motivated."

                                  Georgetown law professor: "In practice, it is inevitable that this law will lead to racial profiling."

                                  Jeb Bush: "It's difficult for me to imagine how you're going to enforce this law."

                                  Huckabee: "[T]here is no such thing" as "American looking."

                                  Krauthammer: "[I]t could lead to a lot of civil rights abuses."

                                  Andrew Napolitano: "The law has to have standards in it" or "there would be a different standard for each police officer."


                                  All quotations are from the above article.

                                  "...That is why people like you are invested in keeping it alive and will gleefully use your charge of racism, warranted or not..."--RO

                                  Those who are blind to it will never get it. I don't have to create racism it has never left us and this bill is a perfect example of why we must be always vigilant and fight it whenever and wherever we see it and yes I'am very proud of that fact.





                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by pilotx (April 29, 2010 12:35 am ET)
                                    4 1
                                    C'mon, we all know that according to conservatives only Blacks and Latinos can be racists. If whites were to EVER experience the kind of treatment people of color have received in this country do you think we would ever hear the end of it? I mean really, how many laws have been passed to restrict white male voting rights? How many white communities have been burned down and its citizens killed for no other reason than they were better off than others? Google Tusla riots 1921, Springfield, IL riots 1906 and Rosewood, FL and then get back to me. If anyone os playing the victim role its white males like Hannity, Rush, Beck and O'Reilly who have benefitted from past racist policies and wouldn't know real racism if it hit them in the head.
                                    Report Abuse
                                  • Author by allan.masri1047 (April 29, 2010 7:23 pm ET)
                                       
                                    He jests at scars that never felt a wound.
                                    --Shakespeare

                                    Since white conservatives have never felt the sting of racism, they naturally claim it doesn't exist. They should ask their friends of color, if they have any. I can't imagine any African-American denying that racism exists.
                                    Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2010 1:48 pm ET)
            4 1
            This can't be addressed by draconian laws and politicians who grandstand. Not in particular order:

            #1 problem: NAFTA and CAFTA these trade agreements have devastated Mexican farmers as well as brought increasing problems here.
            #2 problem: process of obtaining legal status cumbersome, takes years, is arbitrary, many people wind up re-submitting their paperwork numerous times.
            #3 problem: Employers who hire illegals for cheap labor.
            #4 problem: Mexican government is corrupt; uses illegal immigration as a safety valve to maintain their regime. Run by oligarchy.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:08 pm ET)
              4  
              #1 problem: NAFTA and CAFTA these trade agreements have devastated Mexican farmers as well as brought increasing problems here. ---Mary

              So true Mary and hardly ever mentioned is the effect NAFTA and CAFTA had in bankrupting thousands of Mexican farmers particularly corn growers. And to your point 4 we also have alot of culpablity there and this safety valve has been used to maintain a government more to our favor next to our borders. What would you think would happen if Mexico really tried to fix things and turned away from US imperial interest? Remember Nicaragua and the Sandinistas?
              Report Abuse
          • Author by MickD (April 28, 2010 3:05 pm ET)
            6  
            For chrissakes Seaha, stop with the "libs" stuff. Is GWB a lib? He didn't "want" to, either, as was pointed out.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 3:14 pm ET)
                9
              Uh in many ways he was a lib.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by cugagcmu805031 (April 28, 2010 4:39 pm ET)
                5  
                Ask Senator Graham why he has worked on bipartisan bills on climate change and immigration reform for over a year, and he now wants to abandon them because he can't set the Congress' agenda. What would be a more principled stand would be for him to continue working on these issues no matter when Congress decides to put them on the front burner. Working on bills for so long and abandoning any effort to continue working on them because he doesn't get to decide when the bills will be introduced, signals to me that maybe he is not as serious about tackling these issues as he has previously stated. He and Senator Kerry wrote an op-ed just a few months ago stating the importance of working on climate change legislation. He's either not as committed as he wants to appear, or he's acting like a spoiled brat.

                Furthermore, many citizens seem not to realize that we have three branches of government, and that nothing gets to the president's desk before it clears both Houses of Congress. The first thing many people do is say it's President Obama's fault if this or that doesn't get done when they think it should, and they ignore the Constitutional mandate that all legislation begins in Congress. Citizens must understand that they cannot demand that the president act like a dictator on the one hand, and on the other hand, when he doesn't act like a dictator, blame him for not doing it. IMHO, it establishes a Catch 22. citizens who understand what the Constitution says about the way this government has to operate would realize this. No president can sign any piece of legislation until it passes both Houses of Congress, and this is where the problem lies in getting anything done.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 4:44 pm ET)
                4  
                That would be news to GWB and shows how far to the radical right you guys have become. Enjoy your Bircher pie!
                Report Abuse
          • Author by Another_Cat (April 28, 2010 3:10 pm ET)
            2  
            I for one, don't think that it is a lack of desire to enforce the law we are seeing from the Obama administration, it is one of priorty. What would 90% of the country have said if he had made it his first priority, over that of repairing the economy? It's coming into view soon, I think, but it wasn't a top priority for the first year or two of this term.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by angels4light (April 29, 2010 9:33 am ET)
             
          Who are you and what did you do with right ON?
          Report Abuse
      • Author by DellDolly (April 28, 2010 1:33 pm ET)
        4 3
        Addressing only one aspect of the problem is a non-starter. That's why the border fence is a disaster. It doesn't solve the problems that we have - it barely addresses one aspect of one part of the problem.

        We need comprehensive immigration reform. Sealing our borders, or enforcing the laws we have on the books won't do it. Much more is necessary.

        We need acknowledgement that we have to have workers in our nation who come from Mexico and other Central American countries in order for our economy to work well. That's the biggest thing.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 1:41 pm ET)
          3 6
          If they came here legaly, then I have NO problem with them or any other immigrant for that matter. It's not a matter of raceism it's a matter of law. Those who didn't come here the right way need to go back to their country. They sap on our recources, some of them are criminals. Look at the gang violence on the border right now.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2010 1:51 pm ET)
            4 2
            It's totally out of control. We have no idea who is here. That's why we have to address this with common sense. We have to provide a reasonable path to legal status as well as pressuring the Mexican government to clean up their act and repealing NAFTA and CAFTA.

            Employers who hire illegals need heavy fines and/or jail time.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 2:25 pm ET)
              2 6
              You are saying essentially the same thing that was supposed to be addressed with the 1986 bill. Amnesty, border enforcement and employer crackdown. In other words, comprehensive immigration reform. And look what happened, we have more than tripled the number of illegals here. Employer crackdown never happened, and the borders are as porous now as ever.

              So I, personally, don't want to hear any phony talk about comprehensive baloney until we enforce the laws on the books now, border security first, foremost and ONLY. For now. Until that is demonstrated to be the priority and in place, no talk of amnesty, or a "reasonable path to legal status".

              It failed miserably before, it will again. Politicians are too spineless to believe otherwise.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by kirke (April 28, 2010 3:10 pm ET)
                   
                I'm genuinely confused by anyone who thinks that we can actually control our borders. Interestingly when this issue is discussed its primarily about the southern borders (most people don't think about the Canadian/US border when discussing these issues). I agree with Mary59's comments that the AZ law will be a failure as would any 'fence' erected along the border and the real problems need to be addressed. The US is attractive to immigrants from Mexico (which is estimated to be the largest source of our illegal immigration - Census Bureau Estimated over 3.8Million from Mexico and INS estimated 4.8 Million according to fairus.org) because Mexico has very real issues that many are willing to risk life and limb to leave behind. If things remain as bad as they are in Mexico there will be more people who will flee that life - no matter what obstacles we create in hopes of keeping illegal immigrants out of our country. There may not be much that we can do about the issues in Mexico - one thing we can do is seriously evaluate whether NAFTA has contributed more to this problem than has helped it. It is without a doubt a very complicated issue and I fear how the legislation may be employed in AZ as well as. I also don't believe that the law will do anything to stem the tide of illegal immigration in our country or in AZ.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2010 4:28 pm ET)
                2 1
                I didn't say the same things you just did. The path to immigration; not "amnesty" is what I said.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 5:02 pm ET)
                    6
                  What would you call a path? Some silly end of the line pay a fine thing? That is amnesty.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mary59 (April 28, 2010 6:56 pm ET)
                    2 2
                    tommy, you just like to go on with your themes, but where are your solutions?

                    I didn't particularly speak about those already here illegally. But they must be addressed. You have offered no solutions for dealing with them. If you really believe "we" can find them all somehow, even with spending all those tax dollars (which you hate to do) you're drinking early.

                    First, crack down on employers, make it difficult for them. Then, require that anyone applying for legal U.S. residency apply from Mexico. If they have been documented as an illegal here previously, they must pay a fine or somehow be penalized to give preference to those who have not. And the path to citizenship and residency MUST be streamlined and the same for everyone--not arbitrary, capricious and draconian as it is now.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by jediknight65 (April 28, 2010 1:59 pm ET)
            3  
            yeah but here is the problem. how are you gonna distinguish one from another.

            one of my best friends lives in tuscon and married a mexican woman who is a legal citizen here.

            what are you gonna to her when she gets stopped and have her papers demanded of her?
            Report Abuse
      • Author by peace4all (April 28, 2010 1:36 pm ET)
        3  
        once again you miss the point. the point is not weather immigration laws should be enforced. the issue is that the police have just been given permission to stop any brown people and ask them for their papers. so it's a license to be a racist. i sure am not going to be happy if the police stop me just to check my citizenship. you know who did do that though right? the Nazis, you're not a nazi are you seahawk?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 3:11 pm ET)
          1 10
          No that is not the law. The police have to have a reason to stop someone. Not just the color of someones skin. If that was the case, that would be a full time job in it's self. It's not race never has been. Could care less what race anyone is. That should be nationwide policy. But that is the lame argument you libs try. It's not "papers" that is being asked for. It's a card. Just like if you were stopped moron. If they don't have one then citizenship is questioned. You guys like Europe so much. Their socialism, try going there without a passport. It's not racism it's law.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by mrahen (April 28, 2010 4:45 pm ET)
            3  
            "It's a card."

            And where does a native born US Citizen get a card. Why would they have to carry one anyway? Unless you think that we all need to carry a card. That sounds like a National ID Card to me.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:54 pm ET)
            3  
            Really Seahawks then what about this:

            Racial Profiling Already A Problem In Arizona Before The Bill Was Signed Into Law
            Shortly after signing Arizona’s draconian immigration bill into law, Gov. Jan Brewer (R-AZ) attempted to ease concerns about civil rights abuses, stating that she “will NOT tolerate racial discrimination or racial profiling in Arizona.” The truth is, she already is.

            Arizona’s 3TV News reports that a U.S. citizen Latino commercial truck driver was pulled over at a weight scale check spot and handcuffed and detained at the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) building in Phoenix until his wife came and provided both of their birth certificates. Abdon, who did not want to use his last name, said that though he provided his drivers license and his Social Security Number, police officers wanted more proof that he was legally present in the country. Abdon believes that he was ultimately “targeted for his race and forced to provide his birth certificate.” Watch the 3TV report (starts at 2:16):
            http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/26/racial-profiling-arizona/
            Report Abuse
          • Author by opopop (April 28, 2010 8:52 pm ET)
            1  
            FYI Seahawk,We in Ireland, Europe don't need our passport everywhere we go, only when travelling to other countries. A Garda (officer) can't stop me on the street and look for my passport and expect me to have it or detain me.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by raddave43 (April 29, 2010 12:11 pm ET)
               
            The law is that the police my stop anyone they reasonably suspect of being here ilegally. How does a policeman resonably suspect someone of being here ilegally?
            Report Abuse
        • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 3:13 pm ET)
          1 8
          Uh Nazi is short for national socialist that is a progressive thing.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:18 pm ET)
            4  
            NAZI is progressive? Yea I was really impressed to see all the NAZI's and KKK'ers marching alongside of the progressive Martin Luther King for civil rights.

            Of course everyone with a functioning brain cell knows the NAZI only used the term "socialist" in their name to fool the German people who at that point in time were hungering for socialism. NAZI's didn't have anything to do with progressives or socialism which is why the first people who were arrested were communist and socialist.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by pilotx (April 29, 2010 12:41 am ET)
              1 1
              But you forget Dr. King was a conservative Republican, well at least that's the latest lie from conservative world.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by wookie (April 28, 2010 2:15 pm ET)
        2  
        Also, I don't think there are a lot of illegal irish people in Arizona but if there were the law applies to them to.


        Funny you should mention that. McCain pledges amnesty for 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Winski (April 28, 2010 2:52 pm ET)
      2 1
      Was Hannratty masturbating under his desk when he was talking to the Swag-Hag??? He has such a school-boy crush on her painted face, he almost can't speak....It's REAL humorous to watch...

      AND, neither of them say anything that even resembles facts so it's easy to ignore the content of the segment... the mute button on ANY teevee works great...
      Report Abuse
      • Author by seahawks123 (April 28, 2010 3:19 pm ET)
        1 7
        That's all you have is insults. Put your pants on, get out of your moms basement and join the real world. There is a reason 70% of Americans support this bill. Arizona's Govenor's approval #'s went up 16%. Most states require people to carry ID. Is that racist?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by ScienceBuff (April 28, 2010 10:43 pm ET)
          1  
          Most states require an ID? I honestly don't think ANY state requires its citizens to carry an ID. Can you support that claim?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by jmh (April 28, 2010 3:39 pm ET)
      3  
      well, Hannity looks like a Charity Scam Artist to me
      let's do a little criminal profiling on that score.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by RavenRog (April 28, 2010 3:55 pm ET)
      1 1
      You want to see REAL racial profiling? Check out Mexico's immigration laws!

      Click here...

      "
      – The Mexican government will bar foreigners if they upset “the equilibrium of the national demographics.” How’s that for racial and ethnic profiling?

      – If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam and prove they can provide their own health care.

      – Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

      – Law enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.

      – Ready to show your papers? Mexico’s National Catalog of Foreigners tracks all outside tourists and foreign nationals. A National Population Registry tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population, who must carry a citizens’ identity card. Visitors who do not possess proper documents and identification are subject to arrest as illegal aliens. "
      Report Abuse
      • Author by RavenRog (April 28, 2010 3:57 pm ET)
          1
        And the Mexican Presidente has the cajones to actually criticize this bill....
        Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (April 28, 2010 4:00 pm ET)
          1 5
          The Mexican government has their own motivations for opposing any serious border enforcement by the US. They love the money coming back into their country from people working here, and as they export poverty, we import it. I couldn't care less what the president of Mexico says.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by jmh (April 28, 2010 5:03 pm ET)
            3 1
            the real issue here is not about immigration policy, Mexico,
            or any other legitimate topic of discourse.
            The real issue is that Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin, and by extension
            the various misanthropes, of questionable sanity, like Limbaugh, Beck, etc
            have ___any___ credibility to discuss these matters
            Report Abuse
      • Author by congero6189599 (April 28, 2010 5:37 pm ET)
        5 1
        I'am sure glad we don't have the same laws as Mexico but we are racing to the bottom with this Arizona law.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by rals2010 (April 28, 2010 9:29 pm ET)
           
        RavenRog you should really verify the source of your information (Ms. Malkin should as well, since your points are just taken from her site), before you pass along the information as fact. She does provide the link to the goverment site with the actual law written in spanish, so I would assume neither her spanish (nor yours) is very good, since absolutely nothing of what you posted is accurate. I can translate point by point the entire law (all 29 pages) if you ask me to, but for brevity, I'll give you the short version. The law itself is the General Population law, which deals with issues regarding immigration and emigration for mexicans within mexico and abroad, as well as immigration of foreigners into the country. Regarding the points you make:

        1. The law states that citizens from certain countries need to apply for an immigration permit (depending on the agreements signed with different countries, this process may be waived). Depending on the purpose of the visit the foreigner MAY be required to present certain documents, pass a medical exam, or show proof that the person can economically sustain him/herself as well any companions during the stay. With regard to the immigration for workers, an immigration quota will be set depending on the specific economic needs of each mexican region, and preference will be given to the foreigners with specialized degrees or skills lacking in Mexico. If a particular foreigner does not meet this criteria then entry will be denied. There is absolutely no mention of any ethnic or racial requirement to deny or grant entry. Both mexicans and foreigners may only be asked for immigration documents at the entry port to the country, or at some designated check points within the country). NO ONE is asking for your papers randomly.

        I'm sorry to rain on your rant but that is basically the same rule every single country in the world has to deal with possible foreign workers.

        2. All penalties for breaking immigration laws (like extending your stay, doing an activity you are not authorized to do, marriage fraud for the purpose of immigration) are punishable only with fines, or a max 36hr jail time if the fine is not paid. If deemed necessary (after due process) the person will be given a deadline to leave the country voluntarily, or be deported to their country of origin. The only offense in the entire law that is punishable with serious jail time 6 - 12 years, is for anyone involved in people smuggling in and out of Mexico.

        3. The enforcement of immigration laws is only authorized by immigration officers.

        4. Mexico does have a national ID card used as a voter registry (only mexicans can get one). Every person over 18yrs old is encouraged to get one but there is no fine, penalty or law against not having one. It is used as part of the voter registry, and you must show it at the booth in order to vote. The only information it contains is your name, date of birth, and the equivalent of your social security number. To get it all you need to provide is your birth certificate and an address so you can be registered in your corresponding voting district. It is considered an official ID, so you can use it for a lot of processes (like opening a bank account, utilities account, etc.) You DO NOT have to carry your card at all times since NO ONE will ask for it at random. If you get stop by traffic police (different from regular police) for a traffic violation they only ask fro your driver's license and car registration. If you do get detained by police for suspicion of a crime they will ask you for ANY type identification at some point.

        I hope that clarifies things, but next time, unless you have verified the source of the claim, better not to pass it as true. Especially when you use it to criticize another person or country.

        Have a good evening.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by MRF (April 28, 2010 4:18 pm ET)
      3  
      When Palin went to Canada as a kid for health care I wonder if she was asked for papers or ID.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by nativeofsf (April 28, 2010 4:24 pm ET)
        4  
        "Golly gee!" was all little, Sarah had to say...and in perfect Canadian.
        So they let her through.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Winski (April 28, 2010 10:25 pm ET)
      1  
      It never ceases to amaze just how far off the grid these Cluster-Fox clowns have strayed... This is so far out in the pasture full of droppings from basic farm animals (kinda like the fake backdrop the Swag-Hag had behind her), that if people with IQ's higher than 20 actually BELIEVE anything that has come out of her or Hannratty's mouth, their sanity and possible detention as criminally insane should be considered.

      On another note, there is something very odd going on between the Swag-Hag and Hannratty... It looks as if he has a teenage-like crush on the Swag-Hag and MAY be doing something about that crush under his desk as he talks to her!! Maybe I'm just seeing things I want to be true (kinda like a PEE-BAGGER), or has someone else noticed??
      Report Abuse
      • Author by j3161usa (April 29, 2010 12:46 pm ET)
           
        "........there is something very odd going on between the Swag-Hag and Hannratty... It looks as if he has a teenage-like crush on the Swag-Hag.."

        You're right. And he ain't the only one. A lot of men and some women (gretta van sustern) are physically attracted to this woman. This explains why she's still on TV. People are drawn to her--she knows it, and she knows how to use it to get what she wants. It doesn't matter that she was chosen as the VP nominee as a gimmick. She managed, thru a shrewed publicist, to turn this little nugget of luck into a cash cow. What would really surprise me is if the American people are stupid enough to put this greedy, selfish woman back into an elected position of any kind.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by steelydan (April 29, 2010 4:19 am ET)
      3  
      I live in the Phoenix area, am a registered independent, and I voted for Obama in the last presidential election. I'd like to add my 2 cents worth:

      1. When Janet Napolitano resigned her position as Governor to become Secretary of Homeland Security, it really messed up Arizona politics! Jan Brewer is a nimwit. Napolitano would never have allowed that bill to get to a vote, and if it had, she would have vetoed it.

      2. The Arizona legislature is rural dominated especially in the Senate. Phoenix and Tucson voters don't like the bill once they have actually read it. In fact, I think there may very well be a referendum campaign to overturn the bill by the citizens themselves.

      3. The illegal immigration problem is huge and 3000 people cross the Arizona-Mexico border daily. Yes, no typo, THREE THOUSAND A DAY. This puts tremendous pressure on all services, especially emergency rooms. Something needs to be done. Just doing nothing isn't working.

      4. The bill itself is rather chilling in that it is a civil liberties incursion. ("Papers, Please") Our constitutional rights, all of us, are at stake here. Violate one citizen's rights and you violate everyone's. I am against the bill on that alone, among other reasons.

      5. Why not just enforce border security? For the folks that are already here, I favor a path to citizenship and work permits. The problem really can't be dealt with until borders are secure. And I look to the Feds to get that job done.

      Just my opinion.




      Report Abuse
    • Author by dr. engine (April 30, 2010 3:19 pm ET)
         
      This is a case where conservatives would be better off just admitting that it's racial profiling and confessing that they don't care. Any argument that this will "decrease" racial profiling just makes the arguer look dumb. Not exactly how you want to look when you're a lawyer, or running for Secy of a state. I mean, doesn't this guy realize that by the time that officer calls the ICE hotline to confirm a suspect's legal status, the racial profiling has ALREADY happened? And he's a lawyer? My, that's wicked stupid.

      Just repeat after Cafferty. Then kill yourself.
      Report Abuse