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Is Coulter accusing Fox News of "blatantly lying" about racial profiling concerns in AZ law?

April 30, 2010 11:17 pm ET — 156 Comments

On The O'Reilly Factor, Ann Coulter stated that "everyone is blatantly lying" when saying the new Arizona immigration law could lead to racial profiling. However, several Fox News personalities have said that the law may lead to racial profiling.

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Coulter: "[E]veryone is blatantly lying about what this law does" ... "except Fox"

From the April 30 edition of Fox News Channel's The O'Reilly Factor:

WILLIAMS: Ann, what do you think of this law? Is it about racial profiling as we are hearing from the pop stars?

COULTER: No, though I like that listening to air-headed celebrities, is almost identical to listening to news broadcasters on every station except Fox. No, everyone is blatantly lying about what this law does. Specifically racial profiling is prohibited by the law. Cops, by the way, cannot initiate contact with anyone under the law whom they could not initiate contact with before. It's when they are in the process of stopping someone or arresting someone if there is a reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally, not based on race, not based on a suspicion of the person's national origin, but, you know, other reasons. If a cop stops a van that's speeding and 20 people get out and run in 20 different directions, that would cause reasonable suspicion. And it's not like Arizona is inventing this legal principle. There are decades of law interpreting reasonable suspicion.

Fox News personalities have expressed concerns about AZ law leading to racial profiling

Huckabee: "[T]here is no such thing" as "American looking." During the April 24 broadcast of Fox & Friends Saturday, Fox News host Mike Huckabee stated, "They're going to get sued. I predict they're going to lose. Because if you stop somebody and say, you know, he just doesn't look American to me, what does that mean? Walk the streets of New York and tell me, how do you know who's the American-looking, because there is no such thing."

Krauthammer: "[I]t could lead to a lot of civil rights abuses." Fox News contributor Charles Krauthammer stated on the April 21 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier that states are "trying to pass laws where you catch somebody already in the U.S. and it's really hard to discern who is and who is not illegal. Look, if you're at the border and somebody is climbing over the fence, you have a pretty high certainty it's an illegal. Now if somebody is standing outside a Home Depot who doesn't speak English, well he could be or he could not be. So it could lead to a lot of civil rights abuses. But the problem is ultimately that the feds haven't acted."

Andrew Napolitano: "The law has to have standards in it" or "there would be a different standard for each police officer." During the April 27 edition of Fox & Friends, Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano stated, "Think about it. The police are going to stop somebody on the basis of where they look and say I think you're here illegally, give me your papers." He added, "The problem with the law is that it's subjective. What's reasonable suspicion to you might be unreasonable suspicion to me. The law has to have standards in it. Otherwise police could stop people for any reason they wanted and there would be a different standard for each police officer. That's the importance of that question to the governor. Can you tell and illegal alien from a legal alien by looking at them? She said of course I can't. Neither can the police."

Other Fox News figures have defended racial profiling

Crowder: Nothing wrong with law's racial profiling. During the April 23 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Fox News contributor Steven Crowder said that there's racial profiling in the law and "I don't think there's really anything wrong as far as racial profiling, stopping people who are coming in illegally. I mean, you're not looking for a blond haired, blue eyed Swede most of the time."

Gutfeld: "A lot of the critics are saying this is racial profiling. Duh!" On the April 21 edition of Fox News' Hannity, Red Eye host Greg Gutfeld said of the law: "A lot of the critics are saying this is racial profiling. Duh! They're coming from another country. That's what you do. You have to look at them and see who they are before you know they're legal or illegal. I don't think that's a fair criticism."

Gallagher doesn't care about racial profiling concerns. On the April 23 edition of his Salem Radio program, radio host and Fox News contributor Mike Gallagher told Fox News Sunday host Chris Wallace, "Sign it, baby, sign it" and that the Arizona legislature is his "new hero." After Wallace noted concerns about civil liberties, Gallagher said that "it's racial profiling, to be sure, cops know if there's a van full of dark-skinned men with lawnmowers packed into the back of a pick-up truck...that's what they're talking about."

Malkin: "Arizona: Doing the job the feds won't do." Fox News contributor Michelle Malkin praised the law in an April 23 post on her blog, writing: "GOP Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has signed the nation's toughest immigration enforcement bill. They're doing the job the feds won't do - taking the law and our borders seriously to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens first. Cue the ACLU lawyers, the open-borders lobby, and the race-card players. And watch the Left show you what intolerance is really all about." Malkin, who wrote the book In Defense of Internment: The Case for Racial Profiling in World War II and the War on Terror, also wrote that some are "whining about Arizona becoming a 'police state.'"

Hume: "Some people are going to have to endure inconvenience as opposed to everybody." On the April 19 edition of The O'Reilly Factor, Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume appeared to dismiss concerns about racial profiling, stating that "if it's an effective law enforcement technique done in good faith, people may have to endure some inconvenience. What we're saying here is that some people are going to have endure inconvenience as opposed to everybody having to endure it."

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    • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 2:29 am ET)
      16 1
      I don't know what to make of Coulter. That guy's crazy.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by FNC Liberal (May 01, 2010 3:15 am ET)
      10 2
      If Arizona had gender profiling, Coulter would be in serious trouble.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 10:42 am ET)
      1 15
      OK what "race" are they profiling???? well?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 12:05 pm ET)
        10 3
        Why don't you work it out. It's Arizona. They think they have a problem with Mexican illegals. So...what race of persons will receive the kind ministrations of police who are now required to violate their 4th Amendment rights?

        Wow. You conservatives really love the Constitution, as long as you're the only ones who enjoy its protections.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
          4 16
          Mexican, Hispanic, Latino are NOT a race, the race is Caucasian.... my point.... Well you actually have three choices for race....

          So why don't YOU work it out, get a life and stop complaining....

          I do love the constitution and believe anyone here LEGALLY deserves the protection of the constitution.... BUT ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS should be returned to their countries of origin. Russia, Jordan, Ireland, Israel.... and yes, Mexico.... ILLEGAL ALIENS are ILLEGAL ALIENS regardless of their countries of origin, race OR ethnicity.... Show me where the AZ law says Mexican ILLEGAL ALIENS?

          Why is it you LIBERALS think the only ILLEGAL ALIENS are Hispanic? Which by the way is an ethnicity, not a race....

          Perhaps you should read and understand the Constitution before you jump to conclusions regarding conservatives.... All I hear from you is HATE speech
          Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 12:54 pm ET)
            12 2
            Heh. So, what you're saying is, "Mexican, Hispanic, Latino" American citizens won't be routinely pulled over and asked for their papers?

            I had these two Mexican kids who worked for me a couple of years ago. They were both born and raised in America, citizens. They were routinely pulled over and hassled by police. Now, as a white citizen, I've never experienced this. It's anathema to my whole American experience, and I told them about a good lawyer, thinking they would want to do something about what seemed clearly to be harassment. Both of them just sort of withdrew from the idea. Being one of the pampered privelidged, I pressed my case.

            You know what one of them told me? He said, "There ain't no courts for DWM."

            Driving. While. Mexican.

            I'm just going to leave this thread with that. You're a duffer, so beating you up wouldn't really offer the kind of satisfaction I generally get from making so-called conservatives eat crow. Hasta luego, guey.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 1:21 pm ET)
              2 12
              First of all duff, the correct spelling is buey, NOT guey...

              second of all YOU are a true blue racist.... how can you possibly assert that ILLEGAL ALIEN refers only to hispanics? ILLEGAL ALIENS come in all races and ethnicity's....

              BUT the funniest hing is that you "make conservatives "eat crow"" hilarious..... You can't even address the comments without name calling and deflection.... AND you presume to know or think you know what I AM SAYING when I said NOTHING of the sort.

              You are the duffer duff. Here try the realities again.

              [b]Mexican, Hispanic, Latino are NOT a race, the race is Caucasian.... my point.... Well you actually have three choices for race.... [b]

              Why is it you LIBERALS think the only ILLEGAL ALIENS are Hispanic? Which by the way is an ethnicity, not a race....

              see ya later duff....
              Report Abuse
              • Author by congero6189599 (May 01, 2010 1:30 pm ET)
                12 2
                Get a clue OTP the only race is the human race!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:17 am ET)
                  1 8
                  OK, I'll go with that which again proves my point the AZ bill can't POSSIBLY be racist.... fools....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by bintx (May 02, 2010 12:24 pm ET)
                    5 1
                    It discriminates based upon "race, color or national origin." The only people who will be asked to produce their "papers" will be Hispanics. The law isn't "racist," per se, because Hispanics are considered Caucasian; however, it WILL be bigoted based upon color and PERCEIVED national origin. There is absolutely no way around it unless EVERY SINGLE PERSON with whom a police officer has "lawful contact" is asked to produce the exact same forms of identification.

                    Nice try, OTP, but you just looked foolish.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (May 02, 2010 3:28 pm ET)
                      2  
                      I've said the law is Fascist and unAmerican.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:47 am ET)
                        5
                      I look foolish, perhaps but YOU are foolish.... The posts on this site contradict one another.... The post I responded to said there is but ONE race, the human race. Now YOU, the fool, are trying to say the law discriminates based on "race".... which of course it doesn't, it applies equally to all skin coloras and ethnicity's, if it doesn't point it out in the law, FOOL.....
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:29 pm ET)
                        1 1
                        Yes, as was explained to YOU, there is ONE official race, using ONE definition of the word "race" - the human race.

                        But using a perfectly acceptable and legitimate alternative definition, there are MANY races, and the Hispanic/Latino race is one of them.

                        This law will cause/allow law enforcement personnel to discriminate based upon race.
                        Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (May 01, 2010 7:44 pm ET)
                6 1
                Why is it you LIBERALS think the only ILLEGAL ALIENS are Hispanic? Which by the way is an ethnicity, not a race....


                Seriously, who do you think the rednecks in Arizona will be going after?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OOzinEvil (May 01, 2010 10:16 pm ET)
                  2 11
                  Seriously, who do you think the rednecks in Arizona will be going after?

                  rednecks huh? Hit your bong and die hippie!
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:18 am ET)
                  1 9
                  hopefully ILLEGAL ALIENS.... OH over 1/3rd of law enforcement is hispanic.... hmmmm, who do they RACIALLY(Your word) profile????? hmmmm.... fools....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by The_Cat (May 02, 2010 10:23 am ET)
                    6  
                    Just out of curiosity, OTP, how many blue-eyed blonds do you think will be asked for their papers in Arizona under this new law?
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (May 02, 2010 3:30 pm ET)
                    2  
                    So you're under the impression that a Hispanic can't profile?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 02, 2010 3:58 pm ET)
                      3 1
                      The most bigoted person I ever met was a guy I served with aboard the USS Vincennes. He was third generation Mexican-American, but when Prop 187 came up in California, I asked him what he thought and his answer rocked my conception of racism to its foundations. He absolutely loathed boarder jumpers because it made his life harder. I hadn't ever considered that an American of Mexican descent, who spoke fluent Spanish and worked hard to preserve his culture, could be so hardcore anti-immigrant.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by riverdog (May 03, 2010 5:00 pm ET)
                           
                        no he was anti ILLEGAL immigrant, as was ceasar chavez.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 03, 2010 9:24 pm ET)
                             
                          When someone from Mexican descent calls his fellow Mexicans "wetbacks," I think the bigotry extends in all directions. Or did you know Yogi, too?
                          Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:49 am ET)
                    3
                  rednecks, are you RACIST, or just a bigot.... go ahead deny it.... divert, deflect, spin and lie..... fools
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 7:57 pm ET)
                4 2
                how can you possibly assert that ILLEGAL ALIEN refers only to hispanics? ILLEGAL ALIENS come in all races and ethnicity's....
                First of all, he did not assert that. You apparently inferred it from what he wrote.

                Secondly, In Arizona 90% of the illegal alien population is Mexican (which is considered a kind of Hispanic or Latino demographically). It should be noted that when people are talking about the immigration problem in Arizona, most of those illegal aliens by far are going to be Hispanic/Latino and Mexican.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 8:12 pm ET)
                5  
                Its guey. buey means Ox, guey is a slang expression that menas something (i'm not mexican so i don't know completely).
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Bongo Fury (May 01, 2010 8:40 pm ET)
                  7 1
                  Depending on the context guey either means dude or a##hole.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 8:52 pm ET)
                    4  
                    Yeah, that.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bongo Fury (May 01, 2010 9:51 pm ET)
                      4 1
                      I prefer pinche cabron.It's honest.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 10:06 pm ET)
                        5 1
                        Well, Spanish is a very expressive language with lots of nuance and options for the man inclined to insult. For instance, considering the manner in which this Odious Terrible Person approached the issue, what I really wanted to say was, Tu mama chupa vergas en infierno. But, considering Odious Terrible Person's apparently tenuous grasp on English, I didn't think the full import of the insult would stick in the benighted region he/she/it is calling a mind.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 10:07 pm ET)
                        4 1
                        i personally prefer comemierda. it has that disticnt flavor and expresses anger almost perfectly.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Bongo Fury (May 01, 2010 10:21 pm ET)
                          3  
                          It's definitely what OnThePotty should imbibe.I live in southeast CO and I've heard them all. Castillian Spanish I've learned is virtually useless here.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:58 am ET)
                            2  
                            Funnily, a dominican stereotype for spaniards is that they have horribly dirty mouths though its mostly that their insults are just using the worst curse words.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:21 am ET)
                              5
                            southeast Colorado, OMGoodness, nearly neighbors....
                            Report Abuse
              • Author by bintx (May 02, 2010 12:27 pm ET)
                5  
                I might add, that you don't seem to understand . . . the people you are calling "liberals" who are actually just people who respect the Constitution [which, if you were truly a conservative, you would, too], KNOW that there are illegal immigrants who are not Hispanic. The problem is that people like Sheriff Arpaio who announced during a raid the other night that the criteria for "reasonable suspicion" is "speaking Mexican" are simply gunning for those who are. See, THAT's the problem.

                Not real bright, are you?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by angels4light (May 02, 2010 3:07 pm ET)
                  4  
                  Well, I guess that would add one more thing to the list of things that would make me a suspect. Since I speak "Mexican", am olive complected, have brown eyes, etc.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:52 am ET)
                    3
                  Are you implying liberals can READ??? OMG OK show me in the Constitution where ILLEGAL ALIENS (immigrants have permission to be here) can tromp around the US killing, maiming, importing drugs, etc. etc. etc.... ?

                  Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 5:29 pm ET)
            7 1
            the race is Caucasian
            Race is a pretty outdated word, but just to play along...not all Latinos/Hispanics/whathaveyou are "Caucasian" either. Many are of indigenous or black/indigenous (or even any combination of that combined with Caucasian) backgrounds. You probably should do a little reading before you start writing about things you are demonstrating are well beyond your knowledge.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 7:05 pm ET)
              2 2
              I wouldn't be surprised if (s)he has never seen a hispanic live.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:23 am ET)
                1 6
                Now that's the funniest thing I've seen posted yet.... children..... actually just plain immature... can't deal with substance so we deflect, divert, spin and lie..... sickening
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
                  2  
                  When using elypsis you use it to imply that there is a continuation (or gap in a quote) and its three not four or five dumass.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:58 am ET)
                      4
                    Your the dumb ass, I use four dots, not an ellipses which is three, AND I'll use them as I please, the more foolish dumbass, DUMBASS....
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
                      2  
                      Your (sic) the dumb ass?

                      Stop holding a mirror in front of your face when you're posting, doofus.

                      And is it "dumb ass" or "dumbass"?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by congero6189599 (May 03, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
                        1  
                        Hahaha...isn't this guy amazing. So much hate and very little sense. I think he's a dumbass dumb ass.
                        Report Abuse
            • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:56 am ET)
                5
              Actually, I'm pretty well versed and am amazed that a known die hard LIBERAL actually understands.... The fact of the matter is that I use RACISM and RACE simply because that's what the deflect, divert, lie and spin liberals do when they want to play the "race" card and try to "frame" the discussion into bigoted terms....

              I would NEVER throw out the RACIST, RACISM, or race card to make my point, BUT to mock the liberals that INSIST the law is RACIST, and would promote "RACIAL" profiling..... You folks want it BOTH ways.... to suit your "frame"....



              Report Abuse
              • Author by Johaely (May 03, 2010 4:49 pm ET)
                1  
                Highlighting WORDS by WRITING in ALL CAPS, repeating THE SAME statement OVER and OVER, name calling....and badly using ellypsis DOESN'T make what YOU are saying RIGHT much less since YOU NEVER source your "facts".
                Report Abuse
      • Author by Dradeeus (May 02, 2010 9:31 am ET)
           
        ...Hint: It's not Scandinavians.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 10:52 am ET)
      6 1
      I think recent changes to the AZ law prove that even the bills authors concede that at least some of the criticism was very compelling.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 1:01 pm ET)
        2 14
        The AZ law, in my opinion, doesn't solve the issues....

        1. Employers that hire ILLEGAL ALIENS (regardless of race or ethnicity) should be dealt with. (Of course them you LIBERALS would complain about that).
        2. I find it interesting that I am REQUIRED to carry my passport and "entry papers" to ALL other countries I visit, AND I am required to produce them on demand for NO REASON....hmmm.
        3. It's IMPOSSIBLE to use "racial profiling" as ILLEGAL ALIENS come from all races and ethnicity's. BUT behavior profiling should most definitely be used. BTW - hispanic is NOT a race....
        4. The Constitution REQUIRES the government to protect the rights of all LEGAL residence and LEGAL visitors of the US.
        5. We do need comprehensive immigration reform. Sealed borders (all borders) and immigrants should return to their countries of origin and apply for residence and/or citizenship like many others have.

        I have a question - Why do liberals act as if all ILLEGAL ALIENS are hispanic? what about the illegal Canadians, Australians, Irish, Israelis, Jordanians.... on and on and on..... You folks MUST be racist to assume that hipanics are the only ILLEGAL ALIEN issue? duh?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by congero6189599 (May 01, 2010 1:42 pm ET)
          9 2
          You are really confused aren't you? In your trying to teach us a lesoon about what race is you contradict yourself. How can we be racist if hispanics are not a race? I reiterate that the only race is the human race but in your haste to chastize liberals you confuse the issue of race and nationality using the same language you criticize us for. The point is yes their are undocumented from all over the world here but I don't think a blue eyed blond from from Scandanavia will be pulled over and asked for their papers but yu can continue to live in your make believe world that all is equal and the law is applied equally those of us of color and less privalege know better.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 3:00 pm ET)
            2 13
            Your confused, you are racist because you believe only Hispanics are ILLEGAL ALIENS with complete disregard for the RACES that will be profiled right along with hispanics.... get an education....

            I use the language you use to MOCK you fool!

            I have been pulled over and asked for my papers, not blue eyes but GREEN....

            DON'T presume to tell me what I believe.... It's true people are profiled and discriminated against for a variety of reasons..... fools
            Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (May 01, 2010 4:48 pm ET)
              9 4
              You've been pulled over and asked to prove your citizenship?

              Liar.

              That's what these people are being asked for. Being asked for your driver's license is NOT being asked for your 'papers'. 'Papers' prove citizenship.

              And the problem with the law is that it's unconstitutional for US Citizens to be asked to prove their citizenship, and so the first time they error and ask a citizen to prove that they're a citizen, they've violated the Constitution - states don't have that right!
              Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 5:06 pm ET)
                2  
                True. The Supreme Court has not even addressed whether a pedestrian under "reasonable suspicion" needs to do anything beyond stating their name to the police if asked.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 6:29 pm ET)
                2 12
                Don't call me a liar you stupid... well it's not polite.... go back to your rotting hole and well, that's not nice either... MORE than once I've been asked for my "papers" (passport)....

                Listen, I don't think it's the right way to enforce our immigration laws, actually I think our immigration laws are just plain bad.... BUT the federal government has repeatedly failed to secure the borders and provide the constitutionally guaranteed rights all citizens and LEGAL residence deserve.... and just to show you how ignorant you are, states DO have the right to protect citizens living and working in the state.... fool

                So if it's unconstitutional in YOUR lame opinion, so be it, then it'll be struck down....
                Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 7:44 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  MORE than once I've been asked for my "papers"
                  1. Are you a natural born American Citizen?

                  2. Were you asked for your passport in the USA by a law enforcement officer? If so, which state and what was the situation? (The only time I have had to show my passport in the US has been to voluntarily board transportation for an international destination and voluntarily as ID for my standard I-9 form.)
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by loonz (May 01, 2010 7:54 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  The Constitution applies to persons within the US. No one inside the US should be asked to show their papers unless authorities see them in the commission of a crime. It's a violation of the Fourth Amendment to force anyone to show their papers based on a hypothesis.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by OOzinEvil (May 01, 2010 10:29 pm ET)
                    2 3
                    Iv'e crossed over the boarder from Mexico into the US several times and always had to show my "papers" (military orders, passport, mil ID, etc...). Everyone does
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 11:42 pm ET)
                      3 1
                      So, you're under the impression that the random people the police might stop and demand proof of citizenship will all be crossing the border at the time?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by loonz (May 01, 2010 11:50 pm ET)
                      3 1
                      I don't know what that has to do with anything we're discussing. The rest of us on this board are talking about authorities assuming a person in America is guilty of a crime and harassing them based on that assumption. Do you really want to go down the route where you, I or anyone in America can be harassed based on the some person's assumption that we committed a crime?
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 01, 2010 11:59 pm ET)
                      5 1
                      Crossing the border, you're asked questions by Federal agents.

                      That's not the same as cops in any individual state pulling someone over and asking for 'papers' that prove citizenship!

                      What a doofus that you don't understand this!
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:26 am ET)
                        1 7
                        Show me where in the AZ law (which I think is not the solution) does it say ANYONE can be pulled over to ask for papers????? you are the LIAR!!! prove it.....
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 6:14 pm ET)
                          2 1
                          I never said that someone would be pulled over SOLELY to provide papers, though, doofus.

                          Reading is fundamental.

                          You claimed that you had been pulled over and then asked to provide papers after you had been pulled over. But that's not true - it's a lie. You've never been pulled over in any state and been asked to provide proof of citizenship (papers). You're lying when you say that you have had that experience.
                          Report Abuse
                  • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 9:59 am ET)
                      4
                    well loonz, you are EXACTLY right, just as the AZ law states.... go ahead read it.....
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:34 pm ET)
                         
                      Nope, the law does NOT say that probable cause has to exist. Reasonable suspicion is NOT the same.

                      You're wrong once again, or lying, about what the bill says and requires.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 12:04 am ET)
                  7 2
                  It's not impolite to call a LIAR a "liar", doofus. And you LIED!

                  You said that you'd been pulled over and you'd been forced to provide your "papers" after being pulled over.

                  And that's a LIE!

                  Cops don't ask you to provide your citizenship. Federal agents ask you to provide 'papers' when you enter the country, but that's not when one is "pulled over", which is what you claimed. They can't. This new state law attempts to give them the right to do it, but they can't. It'll be found unconstitutional.

                  You're a liar. You got caught lying, trying to say that a passport is the same as a driver's license and that being pulled over is the same as being stopped at a border, and you don't like that. Too bad, so sad.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:28 am ET)
                    1 11
                    HEY Stupid, I never said WHO.... YOU are the LIAR, always have been always will be... Not only a liar but a stupid liar too....

                    PROVE IT dumb c - oh never mind, not polite even if it is accurate...
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:44 pm ET)
                      3 1
                      You are a really pathetic troll. And why so many elypsis? Can't write a whole sentence or simply want to make us feel your sentences are much longer than they should be.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:44 pm ET)
                      2 1
                      You are a really pathetic troll. And why so many elypsis? Can't write a whole sentence or simply want to make us feel your sentences are much longer than they should be.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 6:17 pm ET)
                      2 2
                      You said, "I have been pulled over and asked for my papers."

                      When crossing the border, you aren't "pulled over". State or local police "pull you over". Not INS people. The INS works at the border, and THEY don't "pull you over".

                      So it doesn't matter that you didn't say "who", you doofus. The issue was that you said you'd been pulled over and asked for your papers, and you haven't been. A driver's license is NOT papers, and you aren't pulled over at the border!

                      You're a liar. It's been proven.

                      You're also a troll - that's also been documented here and on many previous threads.

                      FoxNews has blatantly lied on this topic. So have you.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:02 am ET)
                          4
                        OK dully, I wasn't crossing the border... duh!!! or should I say dull!!!!

                        HOW exactly would YOU know my life experiences to twit.... back to you stinky hole.....

                        troll, here we go again with the name calling. Can't do anything but call names like "LIAR", "TROLL"... come up with some substance, stupid ....
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by theocracy (May 03, 2010 10:46 am ET)
                             
                          I don't understand why you can't answer the question. Where were you pulled over and asked for your papers? Did it happen in the United States or somewhere else?

                          By the way, the Arizona law does not require probable cause to ask for someone's proof of citizenship. It is written as during lawful contact between the authorities and the individual. Could be a traffic stop, could be a witness to an accident, could be a visit to the DMV, could be a social conversation with a law enforcement official.

                          So, to sum up--I believe you're lying about being stopped, and you're wrong on the law. Although the law doesn't specifically single out Hispanics, no reasonable person believes that this Arizona law is targeting any other ethnicities (please note the spelling for future foaming-at-the-mouth posts).
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:38 pm ET)
                             
                          I don't know what you personally have done or haven't done.

                          But that's a strawman argument. It's not NECESSARY for me to KNOW your personal history in order to know that you were NOT asked for your "papers" (proof of citizenship) when you were "pulled over", which is WHAT YOU LIED ABOUT! It's not necessary for me to know your personal history to definitively prove that you're a liar!!!

                          One is not "pulled over" at the border.

                          And no cop has asked you to prove that you're a US citizen for a traffic violation when you've been pulled over.

                          And no, it's not namecalling to call a troll a troll, just like it's not namecalling to label Son of Sam a murderer or a liar a liar!
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (May 03, 2010 4:51 pm ET)
                             
                          troll, here we go again with the name calling. Can't do anything but call names like "LIAR", "TROLL"... come up with some substance, stupid ....


                          You should get that cognitive dissonance checked.
                          Report Abuse
              • Author by OOzinEvil (May 01, 2010 10:22 pm ET)
                  9
                And the problem with the law is that it's unconstitutional for US Citizens to be asked to prove their citizenship, and so the first time they error and ask a citizen to prove that they're a citizen, they've violated the Constitution - states don't have that right!

                It's not "unconstitutional" and you're argument is weak. How do Federal agents determine if someone is here legally? Think about it.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 01, 2010 11:50 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Where in, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated," do you see the an accomodation for "Federal agents [to] determine if someone is here legally?"

                  It. Is. Unconstitutional. To execute a search of the person, house, papers, or effects of a person, the police officer must first establish probable cause. Without probable cause, which is defined as the facts and evidence in possession of the officer that amount to a reasonable conclusion that a crime has been committed, any search by police is unconstitutional. This is opposed to what the Arizona law now condones, which is the search of persons upon the suspicion that they may be an undocumented immigrant. Searching a person on the suspicion of the committance of a crime is not probable cause, it's conjecture, it's inference. It's unconstitutional.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:03 am ET)
                      4
                    OMG - exactly what the AZ law says, THANK YOU!!!!
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:39 pm ET)
                         
                      The law talks about reasonable suspicion, not probable cause.

                      Get a clue.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by loonz (May 01, 2010 11:52 pm ET)
                  3  
                  Well, they have to catch them crossing the border.
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Pat T (May 01, 2010 10:59 pm ET)
                   
                Unconstitutional to ask for a US citizens to prove their citizenship? What complete BS and moronic reasoning. We have to prove our citizenship all the time. Sounds like you never filled out a job application or actually had an employer verify your citizenship status.
                Report Abuse
        • Author by BobsYourUncle (May 01, 2010 2:15 pm ET)
             
          1. yes absolutely agree.
          2. we are talking about when you are in the US not when you go abroad, if you are the passenger in a car here in the US you don't need to have any papers on you.
          3. Who do you think will get singled out, the white guy from the UK who has been here illegally for 5 years or the US citizen who happens to be of Mexican decent?
          4. Your point is?
          5. Totally agree and the native Americans get to decide who stays and who goes.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 4:06 pm ET)
          2  
          Tell me how are we to know who is an illegal immigrant and who isn't. How do you profile behaviour? Mexicans will be targeted more because of how close Arizona is from Mexico and because some are obiously physically different. And your examples of other illegal immigrants won't hold base because there are no Canadian illegal immigrants much less Australian illegal immigrants and the other groups are as likely to find as an Australian illegal immigrant.
          And apparently if an illegal immigrant is abused in some way by someone in the U.S, Though luck you shouldn't have been here in the first place, right?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 6:31 pm ET)
            2 9
            OMGoodness you are illiterate as well.... there are in fact Canadian and Australian ILLEGAL ALIENS. Get educated, most are deported....

            And no one should be abused... get a off the lame arguments... lame.....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 7:03 pm ET)
              4 2
              My arguments are lame yet yours are...what? You are saying most are deported but do you have any statistics to prove yourself? And Australia, seriously? Do you know how improbable that is? And why do you put illegal aliens in all caps. have a problem with the most accurate term illelal immigrant? You are aware that illegal immigrants also come here legally right?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 8:11 pm ET)
                1  
                *illegal immigrant.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:31 am ET)
                1 6
                Immigrants are LEGAL, ILLEGAL ALIENS refers to those in this country ILLEGALLY, NOT immigrants.... besides not everyone in this country legally or illegally is an immigrant.... unless you call drug smugglers, and gangsters "immigrants"... the correct term is ILLEGAL ALIENS, regardless or race or ethnicity.... education is a good thing.... get one, stop trying to deflect, divert, spin and lie....
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:31 pm ET)
                  2 1
                  Wait i'm trying to deflect, lie and spin for using an accurate and not loaded term. i'm sorry that i don't see the world throught your racist nativist eyes. And by the way it illegal immigrant, Alien while being synonimous with immigrant has a negative conotation and i won't use it because of that. they are immigrants because they are emigrating from their country.

                  Wait is that you bruce tinsley? i can recognize those four elypsis anywhere. If it is you, oyur comic sucks and you have no sense of humor.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:08 am ET)
                      4
                    First of all, am ellipses is a sequence of three(3) dots, not four....

                    I don't care what you use to refer to ILLEGAL ALIENS, go ahead be as inaccurate as you like.... AGAIN, immigrants are here LEGALLY.... ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT is not proper use of the english language.... not does undocumented worker describe the issue.... ILLEGAL ALIENS describes ANYONE in this country without permission, regardless of color, creed or ethnicity.... This includes those criminals locked up that are here illegally as well as those who have no interest in IMMIGRATION (that is being here legally)....
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:40 pm ET)
                      1 1
                      No, because people are not illegal. Their behavior may be illegal, but people are not illegal.

                      This is not rocket science.
                      Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 7:03 pm ET)
              2 1
              My arguments are lame yet yours are...what? You are saying most are deported but do you have any statistics to prove yourself? And Australia, seriously? Do you know how improbable that is? And why do you put illegal aliens in all caps. have a problem with the most accurate term illelal immigrant? You are aware that illegal immigrants also come here legally right?
              Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 7:35 pm ET)
              3  
              About 80% of illegal aliens are Hispanic/Latino according to the Pew Hispanic Center. In that same study it mentions that in Arizona, 90% of immigrants are Mexican. The number of Australian and Canadian "ILLEGAL ALIENS were too insignificant to be mentioned specifically and are presumably part of the "other" category that constitutes about 3% of the total "ILLEGAL ALIEN" population at maximum. At minimum, there is no evidence from the report that Australian and/or Canadian "ILLEGAL ALIENS" even exist in the US in significant numbers.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 8:41 pm ET)
                1  
                Do Austaralian illegal immigrants even exist? Australia is a piece of land in the southern hemisphere and has a pretty stable system, why would somebody even try to come illegaly?
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:14 am ET)
                    4
                  It doesn't matter why they come here. It doesn't matter that they constitute a small (3%) population.... The fact is that REGARDLESS they are to be treated by the AZ law exactly the same as hispanics.... I am NOT naive enough to believe that hispanics won't be rooted out and discriminated against.... THAT however is NOT an issue for the new AZ law, that happens NOW. Calling the law RACIST is simply wrong.... Try dealing with the law on the merits of the law (or lack there of).... When you all try this diversion, deflection, spin and lies, it simply adds to the anger, hate and rhetoric..... kool-aids on sale at walmart....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:42 pm ET)
                    1  
                    It's unconstitutional for a state law to mandate that US citizens provide proof of citizenship.

                    And whenever a cop asks someone who he suspects of not being a US citizen for that proof, the cop is violating the Constitutionally-protected rights of that citizen!
                    Report Abuse
        • Author by open_mind (May 01, 2010 5:00 pm ET)
          11 3
          The AZ law, in my opinion, doesn't solve the issues....

          1. Employers that hire ILLEGAL ALIENS (regardless of race or ethnicity) should be dealt with. (Of course them you LIBERALS would complain about that).
          Perhaps we don't complain, because we have read the current Arizona law. Have you read the bill? According to Arizona law, employers that hire ILLEGAL ALIENS are already dealt with:

          Sec. 7. Section 23-212, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:
          23-212. Knowingly employing unauthorized aliens; prohibition; false and frivolous complaints; violation; classification; license suspension and revocation; affirmative defense
          A. An employer shall not knowingly employ an unauthorized alien. If, in the case when an employer uses a contract, subcontract or other independent contractor agreement to obtain the labor of an alien in this state, the employer knowingly contracts with an unauthorized alien or with a person who employs or contracts with an unauthorized alien to perform the labor, the employer violates this subsection. Existing Arizona Law from SB 1070h


          2. I find it interesting that I am REQUIRED to carry my passport and "entry papers" to ALL other countries I visit, AND I am required to produce them on demand for NO REASON....hmmm.
          You really are not aware of the difference between traveling between countries and traveling within countries? I have never been stopped in another state in the US and been forced to prove I was a US citizen. Not ever. Don't know where you are from.

          3. It's IMPOSSIBLE to use "racial profiling" as ILLEGAL ALIENS come from all races and ethnicity's. BUT behavior profiling should most definitely be used. BTW - hispanic is NOT a race....
          You are either being disingenuous or stupid. Of course it is possible to use "racial profiling", but not in a way that is consistent with the Constitution. Of course "ILLEGAL ALIENS" (strange that you feel you need to yell that) are constituted from many different ethnicities and national origins, but we are talking about Arizona. The vast majority of "ILLEGAL ALIENS" are going to be from the nearest border (hint: it isn't Kazakhstan). I don't mind using behavioral profiling so long as there are common, reasonably identifiable behaviors shared by all "ILLEGAL ALIENS". I don't care if you call Hispanic a race, culture or ethnicity. I know what is meant by it and it is all pretty much the same thing to me. Personally I prefer "ethnicity" above the rest, but I'm not such a NAZI to tell everybody what to say to make me happy. I don't get hung-up on fairly minor semantic differences.

          4. The Constitution REQUIRES the government to protect the rights of all LEGAL residence and LEGAL visitors of the US.
          Huh? Where does it say that? You must have some version of the Constitution that is translated into Wingnutese.

          5. We do need comprehensive immigration reform. Sealed borders (all borders) and immigrants should return to their countries of origin and apply for residence and/or citizenship like many others have.
          I don't mind "sealing the borders" (which is probably impossible, but we can do better than we do currently), but expecting "ILLEGAL ALIENS" to go back to their home country to apply for residence is naively setting yourself up for failure. That would NEVER happen and you would only be encouraging "ILLEGAL ALIENS" to not do anything, but hope that they won't get caught (which is exactly what they are doing right now).

          I have a question - Why do liberals act as if all ILLEGAL ALIENS are hispanic?
          Well that's a pretty obvious strawman. Nobody has said that. Now with regards to Arizona, which borders a country with lots of hispanics in it, the vast majority of "ILLEGAL ALIENS" are going to be from there.

          what about the illegal Canadians, Australians, Irish, Israelis, Jordanians.... on and on and on..... You folks MUST be racist to assume that hipanics are the only ILLEGAL ALIEN issue? duh?
          As I said, that is just a strawman. Nobody says anything like that outside of your apparently fevered imagination. Duh?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by secularhuman (May 02, 2010 1:33 am ET)
               
            When the lobbyist coaching Arizona legislators writing their police-state laws talks about looking for ``cars up on blocks'' as a way to legally accost residents for their papers, he's not talking about Canadians and Australians. He's clearly identifying a racist stereotype of Hispanics. The Arizona laws are, just as several FauxNews contributors say, blatantly and proudly intended to legalize racial profiling of Hispanics.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (May 02, 2010 10:34 am ET)
            4  
            Very well posted, open_mind!
            Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (May 01, 2010 9:02 pm ET)
          3 1
          You find it interesting that if you are in another country you are required to carry and produce your passport whenever demanded? You are in another country and you must abide by their laws. The Constitution makes no mention about whether a person is in the country legally or not. It applies to ALL people in the country.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by ptluzzi59 (May 02, 2010 1:53 pm ET)
            3
          well when i pull in a home depot to buy something i dont get chased by 20 Canadians, Australasians , Israelis i get chased by Mexicans. until you live here i dont think you have a right to comment about it.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 02, 2010 4:02 pm ET)
            5 1
            You get "chased" by 20 Mexicans? Are they zombie Mexicans?

            The issue isn't whether or not there is an illegal immigration problem. The issue is, amongst several others, the inherent racism of the law, and the Constitutional matter of unreasonable search and seizure.

            And I have a right to comment about any damn thing I want. That's in the Constitution, too.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by angels4light (May 02, 2010 3:10 pm ET)
          2  
          Are you required to carry your passport and birth cert along with all of your other papers with you here in the good old USA? I am not, though in AZ I would be - and I am not of Hispanic or Latino heritage, though I am partly of First Nations heritage, that part being indigenous to that particular corner of the world even.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Reinhard (May 01, 2010 2:54 pm ET)
      3 1
      Congero is correct, there is but one surviving member of the homo "race", that would be homo sapiens sapiens. Your "race" has nothing to do with skin color, culture, ethnicity. Your "race" is determined by your genetic make-up, that make-up being what makes you a homo sapiens sapiens and a dog a canis lupus familiaris. The fact that some dogs are German Shepherds and some are Springer Spaniels doesn't make them different "races". It makes them different breeds.

      Anthropology and evolution lesson aside, perhaps you should do your homework before asserting such nonsense in a public forum.

      Good day sir.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 3:08 pm ET)
        4 8
        well liberals, it all you liberals that keep shouting RACISM, RACIST etc. etc... thanks for proving my point.....

        I need no lessons, tell your racist, race bating friends how ignorant they are.... thanks again for proving my exact point.....
        Report Abuse
        • Author by DellDolly (May 01, 2010 4:50 pm ET)
          5 3
          Your point wasn't proven.

          Officially, genetically, there is only one race.

          Less formally, there are many races, and Hispanic is one of them. One can be racist against Hispanics.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 01, 2010 6:39 pm ET)
            2 7
            your too stupid to even understand the term race.... hispanic is of the caucasian race, hispanic ethnicity... go ahead, show some more ignorance before you crawl back into your stinky hole....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by peace4all (May 01, 2010 7:00 pm ET)
              4 1

              man, do you just come here to haress people or what? you have no valid points to make, lots of straw men and about the only thing you are any good at is name calling. i feel bad you don't have a better life than making yourself feel better by name calling and ignoring facts. maybe you'll do better next life.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Bongo Fury (May 01, 2010 7:16 pm ET)
                4  
                This jackass is full of hatred peaceforall.He/she has been around under many aliases,but it's still the same old"liberals are stupid and wrong" schtick.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Johaely (May 01, 2010 8:08 pm ET)
                  4 1
                  it wouldn't be surprising if he was a proudcon/BJ fan sockpuppet.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:19 am ET)
                  1 4
                  Listen, I've NEVER attacked (well almost never) someone for being liberal or progressive until I've been beat over the head with the name calling (dell dolly for example)....

                  On thing I know for sure is that I'm not too old to learn new things.... I do enjoy a REASONABLE and good discussion regarding topics such as immigration, taxation etc....

                  It's true that I am fairly conservative....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:46 pm ET)
                    2 1
                    You haven't been beaten over the head with any namecalling.

                    It's not namecalling to have your behavior publicly and accurately identified.

                    It IS whining to claim that you ARE being wrongly attacked!

                    You are NOT a victim here. We continually see that bogus claim of victimhood here, and I refute it all the time. A criminal is NOT a victim of the D.A. who prosecutes him, and you aren't a victim of me, pointing out YOUR bad behavior!
                    Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:21 am ET)
                    2
                  ok leftofwhatever, exactly how do I express "hate".... Please, I'd like to fix that if it's true????? Please?

                  Just a thought, could you be projecting by chance? your post seems awfully hateful to me....!!!!
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:32 am ET)
                1 6
                The validity of my point is lost on your ignorance.... You don't even KNOW what my point(s) are.... fool....
                Report Abuse
                • Author by The_Cat (May 02, 2010 10:35 am ET)
                  6  
                  You only have one point, OTP, and you keep it hidden beneath your cap.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by dontbestupid (May 03, 2010 11:50 am ET)
                     
                  Are you my consertive bro-in-law Rob? Whenever he can't make a reasonable point, he screams "YOUR JUST BEING HATEFULL!" WAAAAAAAA
                  Report Abuse
            • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 12:10 am ET)
              2 2
              No, you're (note the spelling, doofus - it's NOT "your") wrong. There are MULTIPLE definitions of "race", as I said.

              Get a clue. Get a life!
              Report Abuse
            • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 02, 2010 2:18 am ET)
              3  
              The irony police would like to see your papers. You're calling somebody stupid while waterboarding the English language. Seriously, check out your local community education catalog. They have a lot of adult literacy programs that could help.
              Report Abuse
          • Author by OOzinEvil (May 01, 2010 10:41 pm ET)
              5
            Dell, are your saying Reinhard is full of it and his explanation is false, or does it contradict you and therefore must be discredited?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 12:09 am ET)
            2 1
            3.Anthropology.
            a.any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
            b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
            c.a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
            4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
            5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:34 am ET)
                6
              Exactly what i said bimbo.... get a life.... get a job....
              Report Abuse
              • Author by DellDolly (May 02, 2010 6:21 pm ET)
                1  
                Exactly what you said? Nope.

                You claimed that it was inaccurate to claim that Latinos could be considered a race. But they can.

                Further evidence that you can't even READ a dictionary definition and absorb it!

                Thanks for exposing YOURSELF as a doofus multiple times!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:22 am ET)
                    3
                  Latinos are NOT a race.... Period. look it up in the dictionary, stop hiding behind your liberal definitions, bimbo....
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by congero6189599 (May 03, 2010 12:26 pm ET)
                    4  
                    You are the confused idiot. What do you call dark skinned Cubans are they Hispanic? WTF is this Hispanics are cuacasian BS. Negroid? WTF! The concept of race you use is outdated and applies to eugenics. What are Mexicans who are more native american called? Are they Hispanics too? Our immigration laws are outdated and backward and need a complete revamping. As I pointed out earlier the laws are not applied equally,never have been. Any causual look at our prisons will show it heavily made up of people of color and those without privalege or resources. to thjink that this will be colorblind does not pass the the history or present reality smell test.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 03, 2010 1:22 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President, and signatory to the Immigration Act of 1924 that set up contemporary immigration policy, said, "America should be kept American. . . . Biological laws show that Nordics deteriorate when mixed with other races." It was also reported that Coolidge issued a statement upon the signing of the Act in which he said, "I believe in the inherent superiority of the Nordic race."

                      Anyone who believes that immigration law isn't racist should note that nobody is talking about the estimated 65,000-75,000 undocumented Canadian immigrants, or the swelling numbers of Eastern Europeans smuggled into the country. I'm just glad those of us of Irish descent were never put through this....
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 6:47 pm ET)
                        2
                      ooooh hit a nerve did we, it's all in the genetics dimmy!!!!....

                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by DellDolly (May 03, 2010 12:49 pm ET)
                      1
                    4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
                    5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

                    See, I DID look in the dictionary.

                    And I posted that info in the post above.

                    And YOU'RE the one who totally MISSED that info in the post above!

                    So, it's YOU who, like said, can't even read a dictionary definition and absorb it!

                    If the Dutch can be called a race, or the Slavs can be called a race, then so can Hispanics/Latinos be a race!

                    This is not debatable - it's fact. There is one human race, but there are also many divisions that are ALSO called races within that human family.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by raddave43 (May 02, 2010 11:27 pm ET)
                1  
                No it pretty much contradicts what you said
                Report Abuse
        • Author by kyle b.c. (May 01, 2010 6:17 pm ET)
             
          is that you, MagCynic?
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Jo Jo (May 01, 2010 10:09 pm ET)
         
      The Federal laws already in place are more strict and discriminatory than Arizona's recent legislation. The difference is that the Fed does not enforce it's laws. When I am traveling in Europe, I have to keep my passport on me at all times, in case I am involved in a accident or conflict requiring ID. I don't feel targeted, but I am not going to exceed my visa restrictions because of the probability of being asked for my ID.

      This is a political maneuver by the Democrats as it was by Bush to gain voting support. It has little to do with protecting our borders or protecting rights. Arizona has the right to protect its state from unauthorized access and crime.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by grmce (May 02, 2010 2:16 am ET)
      4  
      All this nit picking over what constitutes "race". The U.S. has been obsessed with race at least since 1776. It's still as obsessed with it as apartheid era South Africa.

      As far as I'm concerned, a bigot is a bigot irrespective of the basis of their bigotry and the election of Barack Obama has certainly flushed a load of assorted bigots out from the undergrowth - political bigots, colour bigots, religious bigots, nationalist bigots, bigots for all prejudices and occasions.

      The subject of immigration (as fundamental to the human condition as procreation) has simply provided another basis for bigots to spout their venom.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 10:59 am ET)
        1 6
        Pretty darn good assessment.... A slight correction....

        Immigration is a real problem, but I've heard no bigotry (doesn't mean it hasn't happened) with regard to immigration....

        The problem is actually ILLEGAL ALIENS, those in this country without permission, regardless of the countries of origin.... I know some that read these postings are SO ISOLATED in their daily lives that they don't know that ILLEGAL ALIENS come in all colors, and all ethnicity's.... Even Australian and Canadian....

        A good comprehensive immigration policy should be put into practice.... Believe me there are a lot of unanswered questions, like what happens to the person that was smuggled into the country as a four month old child and lived here his or her entire life.... This country is all they know.... scary.... and I'm sure there are even more horror stories....

        Perhaps if more protests would be held in Mexico and other exporters of ILLEGAL ALIENS, regarding the liberal millionaires and billionaires that control the Mexican economy, the "need" to illegally enter the US would subside.....

        The entire leftwingnut objective is to deflect, divert spin and lie about the realities of situation. I have nothing to prove to prove to any of you, except perhaps one thing... your diversion, deflection, spin and lies are only hurting your cause.... It's about time to frame the discussion in REALITY, leave the racism, racial profiling and other trash at the door....

        The most glaring is referring to ILLEGAL ALIENS as "immigrants". If they were immigrants, they'd certainly be legal.... Oh then we start throwing the word RACIST around until that too is debunked....

        BIGOTRY is accurate and there are all sorts of bigots as you've pointed out.... It's not a one way street aimed at hispanics, just listen to "la raza".... bigots (not all but many).... Yes and there are white bigots too, just look at harry reid. "he only talks in a negro dialect when he wants to", referring to President Obama, that's a bigot most leftwingnuts prefer to ignore.... but a bigot all the same....

        BTW - The very President Obama that PROMISED something would be done regarding IMMIGRATION REFORM is still waffling and posturing about his future re-election possibilities....

        Fundamentally I agree that the AZ law MAY lead to things that should NOT occur, bigotry for one.... BUT something has to be tried, this at LEAST opens the dialog to IMMIGRATION REFORM....
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Huck500 (May 02, 2010 12:10 pm ET)
             
          You type over and over again that liberals are racist because not all illegals are Mexican, but the fact is, if there were suddenly no more Hispanic illegals, this law would go away. Arizona wouldn't pass a law to deal with the 5 or 6 illegal Canadians or Australians (really?) in their state. Nitpicking over terminology isn't going to change this.

          They share a border with Mexico, and they want to stop Mexicans and other Latin Americans from crossing that border. That's it. This law will only be applied to Hispanics, and someone will eventually ask a Hispanic for ID for no reason other than his looks, and that's a violation of the Constitution, which applies to everyone in the US, legal or illegal.

          And name calling makes you sound immature, no matter what side you're on.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by eweston8542983 (May 02, 2010 12:11 pm ET)
          3  
          Name a few of those liberal millionaires and billionaires. Though the toxic affect of american businesses on latin america is well worth a good hard look. Action to correct it would be more effective at halting immigration pressure than anything else I can think of, cheaper too.

          Couple bigotted quotes from La Raza, full quotes.

          A private conversation somehow became a public statement. Apology (uneeded in some quarters opinion) given, accepted, but go ahead and chew on it for a while.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Johaely (May 02, 2010 12:39 pm ET)
            3  
            Hey you know how it is. Liberals are the only ones capable of racism and error and they can't be apologized for it. It should be brought up in every occasion in order to divert, deflect, spin and lie which are only hurting our cause.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 8:27 pm ET)
            1 4
            Lets just start with Carlos Slim HelĂș, Mexican.... Liberal. Billionaire Mexican, he keeps it all to himself just like Joe Biden.

            The term "la raza" is bigoted, of course you won't be able to see that... how about this....

            "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing." hmmm.... sounds pretty bigoted to me... besides I thought all you leftwingnuts don't want to talk about RACE....

            oh that is if it doesn't suit your purpose, deflect, divert, spin and lie....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by eweston8542983 (May 02, 2010 9:36 pm ET)
              4  
              A name, a label, an accusation. Which has nothing to do with the question asked. Thanks I think?

              I asked for a complete quote or three, who, where, context. Sadly all missing from your post.

              You come on appartently loaded for bear. Really you have little but a set of opinions. Give them some real support sometime.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 7:19 pm ET)
                  2
                I offered you examples, don't like them, tough.... plenty of examples exist la raza, bigots - just look at their web site....
                Report Abuse
                • Author by eweston8542983 (May 03, 2010 9:01 pm ET)
                     
                  Deflect, divert, spin and lie, aye. What ever works for you.
                  Report Abuse
        • Author by grmce (May 02, 2010 6:49 pm ET)
          3  
          The term "illegal alien" is both loaded and offensive. Migration was occurring long before the descendants of migrants sought to restrict it. As I said above, it is fundamental to the human condition.

          Undocumented migration is a problem caused by artificial laws imposed by simpletons who believe that simply legislating something will make it so - a bit like when Idi Amin passed a law making it illegal to be unemployed or passing laws making certain intoxicants illegal.

          We hear so much spouted about "free markets" yet a free labour market that allows people to shift according to labour demands through an area that they have traditionally (we're talking long before the U.S. was settled by undocumented European immigrants!) roamed unhindered.

          The nativist bigotry currently poisoning U.S. politics is reminiscent of the Know Nothings of around 150 years ago, and by the way, the crime problem in Mexico is a direct result of the U.S. imposed "War on Drugs" and the dopey (pun intended) belief that making something you don't like illegal will make it disappear.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 02, 2010 8:30 pm ET)
            1 6
            Actually the term ILLEGAL ALIEN is accurate and factual...

            You believe that laws are not necessary? hmmmm.... figures....
            Report Abuse
            • Author by grmce (May 02, 2010 10:30 pm ET)
              2  
              People were going back and forth in the Mexico/U.S. area for many centuries before a bunch of Anglos came in and decided to create a national border where one had not previously existed. This caused a massive disruption to the way of life of the existing population.

              Why is it that the most recent arrivals seem to think that they have the exclusive right to run things? Manifest destiny is a particularly poisonous form of bigotry - an imperialism that debases "the other".

              As I've already stated, migration is fundamental to the human condition. The history of humankind is a history of migration. Migration law should be designed to accommodate this natural behaviour. Management is the solution. Attempts to control through punitive legislation are doomed to failure and have the added consequence of creating antagonistic divisions within the community.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by raddave43 (May 02, 2010 11:33 pm ET)
                 
              Both terms are accurate.
              Report Abuse
    • Author by Reinhard (May 02, 2010 1:01 pm ET)
      1  
      The word "race" isn't used by anthropologists, it's used by politicians,and media trogs, etc. Sorry, but science and the scientific method are quite clear on the rules.

      Try again.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (May 03, 2010 9:56 am ET)
           
        That's kind of the problem with this conversation. There are some linguistic things happening with the word 'race'. By the scientific definition of 'race,' humans are all of one race. But that is immaterial to this discussion, because the definition of 'race' that applies here is the cultural/political ones. In other words, these definitions from the Compact OED: "3 a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group. 4 a group of people or things with a common feature." are the ones that apply to this conversation.

        This is not dissimilar to the way 'entropy' means something different in physics than it means in sociology.

        So, now that we are all (hopefully) using the words in the same way, perhaps we can get back to discussing the fact that the AZ law cause de facto profiling, whether it is officially recognized as such or not.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by rumpleteasermom (May 03, 2010 9:56 am ET)
        1  
        That's kind of the problem with this conversation. There are some linguistic things happening with the word 'race'. By the scientific definition of 'race,' humans are all of one race. But that is immaterial to this discussion, because the definition of 'race' that applies here is the cultural/political ones. In other words, these definitions from the Compact OED: "3 a group of people sharing the same culture, language, etc.; an ethnic group. 4 a group of people or things with a common feature." are the ones that apply to this conversation.

        This is not dissimilar to the way 'entropy' means something different in physics than it means in sociology.

        So, now that we are all (hopefully) using the words in the same way, perhaps we can get back to discussing the fact that the AZ law cause de facto profiling, whether it is officially recognized as such or not.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:31 am ET)
          1 3
          I do agree that the AZ law MAY (and probably will) have some "profiling" specifically against latinos, hispanics and possibly arabs....

          I agree that profiling individuals based on any of the above is WRONG....

          BUT, the profiling ALREADY happens, it's NOT something that's going to be created by the AZ law.... The profiling should be dealt with as an issue unto itself without regard for the AZ law.... I know, it's a difficult concept for some, but not EVERYONE is as prone to bigotry as most of you APPEAR to be.... Go back through this site and read the posts.... I've been called every name one can imagine while you claim to be "ANTI-BIGOTRY".... to make matters worse NONE of you have any idea who I am, what ethnicity, what culture, NOTHING... all you know is that I say things that don't necessarily agree with you so you choose to be bigots.... Just to be clear, I am NOT above responding to bigoted hatemongers with name calling.... The key word RESPONDING....
          Report Abuse
          • Author by OTP (May 03, 2010 10:54 am ET)
              4
            And really, isn't what you are doing "profiling", it it's so wrong why do you keep it up.... Yes I said profiling, many of you are assuming you know me and know what I think based on a few lines on this site...... I think you'd all and I mean ALL would be surprised....
            Report Abuse
          • Author by rumpleteasermom (May 03, 2010 7:51 pm ET)
               
            OTP - show me anywhere I have ever said anything regarding your ethnicity or culture. Or anything even remotely bigoted for that matter.



            Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (May 02, 2010 7:24 pm ET)
      3 1
      Well, I think we've all proven that Ann Coulter is a lazy, lying sack of cr*p. Thank you, one and all.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Bobby Jindal fan (May 03, 2010 11:49 am ET)
        4
      Here is something for you lefties to look forward tomorrow. Mrs. Bobby Jindal fan will be a member of Glenn's audience tomorrow.

      He is donig a show in which the audience is Hispanic people who are here LEGALLY (OK, she's not technically HISpanic, but I guess she qualifies.

      Glenn has found people of Latin heritage who support the AZ law. Just llok for the hottest woman in the audience - that will be her.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by raddave43 (May 03, 2010 12:05 pm ET)
        3  
        If she isn't HISpanic, is she HERpanic?
        Report Abuse
        • Author by grmce (May 03, 2010 6:35 pm ET)
          2  
          Let's just leave it at "panic".

          After all, it sums up the over-riding emotion of the Right Whinge.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by congero6189599 (May 03, 2010 12:36 pm ET)
        3  
        Say clown still waiting for your proof that a certificate of live birth cannot be used to acquire a passport. You show me proof and I'll hush,otherwise I'll just continue to assume that you are nothing more than a braindead moran...and now you want to bring YOUR wife into this?
        Report Abuse
      • Author by n'est-ce pas (May 03, 2010 9:22 pm ET)
           
        Yeah, you're not creepy. Not at all.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by Winski (May 03, 2010 8:59 pm ET)
         
      TRULY STUPID PEOPLE...
      Report Abuse

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