Media conservatives "favor religious freedom," but ...
Several prominent media conservatives have claimed to "favor religious freedom" while qualifying that claim in order to attack the Islamic community center and mosque set to be built two blocks away from Ground Zero, demanding that it be moved elsewhere in New York City.
Media conservatives qualify support for "religious freedom" to attack mosque
Palin: "We're all about religious freedom, but" do it "down the road." Discussing her opposition to the proposed Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan, Fox News contributor Sarah Palin said:
PALIN: I just think this is just one of the worst decisions that ever has been made that will adversely effect New York City. And those innocent victims, those families of those who were killed in the 9-11 tragedy, it saddens me to think that people don't understand what building this mosque at such hallowed ground really represents. The mosque, fine, we are all about religious tolerance, that's what makes America beautiful and free.
We're all about religious freedom, but to provoke even more heartache and more division in our country, especially there in New York City, by choosing that specific location, to kind of mark territory with this mosque. I think that it's a knife in the collective heart of Americans who say, "Yeah, build the mosque, but down the road." Build it somewhere else where it's not such a painful reminder to those who certainly care about our national security, will never forget what happened on 9-11, and are committed to never allowing that to happen again. [Fox News' Hannity, 8/4/10]
Gingrich: "I favor religious freedom," but "there are over 100 mosques in New York City." Elaborating on his statement on the proposed Islamic community center, Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich said:
GINGRICH: Well, I think it's outrageous. Here you have people who have proposed to build a 13-story mosque at the edge of the World Trade Center area at a time, by the way, when the Greek Orthodox church in nine years has not been able to get its church rebuilt. They didn't propose -- they say they're interfaith. They didn't propose, Let's build a mosque, church and synagogue. They said, Let's build a 13-story mosque and a community center, which they initially called the Cordoba House, which is named for a city in Spain where a conquering Muslim army replaced a church with a mosque. I mean, it was a very direct reminder historically that this is all about conquest. This is about who wins.
And I -- I -- I frankly find it very offensive, first of all, that they we're so stupid that they can use that kind of a title and we didn't notice it. Second, that -- you know, there are over 100 mosques in New York City. I favor religious freedom. I'm quite happy if they'd come and said, We want to build a community center near Central Park, we'd like to build a community center near Columbia University. But they didn't. They said right at the edge of a place where, let's be clear, thousands of Americans were killed in an attack by radical Islamists. [Fox News' On the Record, 7/26/10]
Fund: "[L]eaving aside the First Amendment, there are almost no people living in downtown New York." Wall Street Journal columnist John Fund said of the proposal:
FUND: The Muslim faith has a long tradition of planting religious buildings on the sites of victories that they have had in the past.
This is a very awkward place to put such an building, just -- leaving aside the First Amendment, there are almost no people living in downtown New York. Brooklyn, Queens might make sense. There's a large Muslim population there. But why in the world would you put something when there's no one living there? [Hannity, 7/19/10 (accessed via Nexis)]
Sekulow: "I do a lot of freedom of religion cases," "[b]ut you don't get to build a mosque on a site that's part of Ground Zero." Conservative radio talk-show host for the American Center for Law and Justice's Jay Sekulow stated that his opposition to the Islamic community center "has nothing to do with the First Amendment." He continued:
SEKULOW: I do a lot of freedom of religion cases. No one is saying a mosque can't be built in New York City. There are plenty of them. But you don't get to build a mosque on a site that's part of ground zero. Why? That would be -- as one of our teams said at the New York Land Commission hearing, that would be like putting at the site of the Arizona and Pearl Harbor a monument for the kamikaze pilots that tried to destroy U.S. troops. You just don't do that. [Hannity, 7/22/10 (accessed via Nexis)]
SHUT UP! AND MEDIA, PLEASE STOP GIVING THESE PEOPLE A FORUM.
What I think this episode will do though, is provoke hostile actions against the Muslims who go there. Watch and see what happens after it opens.
If building a mosque is the right thing to do, do it.
Build the "Freedom Tower" because it's a good business decision, not because some idiot flew a plane into the World Trade Center.
Hey, can I say that next time some Evangelical Nutbags want to build a church in my neighborhood? I'm afraid their rattlesnakes might escape...
Were all about gun freedom but...Take your handguns down the road...
I'm expected to suck it up when Bubba plops his fat carcass into the booth next to me with a Glock sticking out of his pants, but they want to stop the building of a Muslim Center in New York because it "offends" them? Really?
I know how some of these people think, because I was one of them in my late teens. Wearing a gun makes them feel macho...cool... invincible. It's like being in a John Wayne movie. Some even hope they get a chance to use it, just for the adrenaline rush.
But then again, maybe he really feared that he would be attacked in his own driveway.... you can't be too careful with all these Progressive Marxist Satanists running around.
By the way, isn't that the bumper sticker--Virginia is for Lugers?
;)
By today's standards (or lack thereof) I'm sure Jesus would be considered a socialist.
and if gays want to get married or immigrants have American citizen children then we must get rid of the 14th amendment to make the constitution to be what we want.
what a bunch of hypocritical cry babies the right are.
With all the places they could have built it, they elected to do it there.
And you are free to lobby anywhere you want. Have at it. Feel free to lobby for a statue of the Emperor built at Pearl Harbor, or a museum of Hitler built at Aushweitz.
Seems as though, some people (most of whom don't even live in NYC) are particularly sensitive to this.
Remember her charming comment about how much the 9/11 Widows were enjoying the deaths of their husbands?
So you hold all Muslims as responsible for 9/11 as you hold Hitler responsible for the Holocaust?
And don't even TRY to claim that your assertion that the building was happening at ground zero when it's not wasn't intended to incite.
Your response: let them go make a positive statement somewhere where they'll be ignored.
You cannot SEE Ground Zero from the selected Mosque site.
You cannot SEE Ground Zero from the selected Mosque site.
You cannot SEE Ground Zero from the selected Mosque site.
The build their building there because it is their property and in America you can use property the way you see fit. Who do you think you are that you can dictate where individuals build a community center simply because it brings out the bigot in you that you seemingly are too cowardly to openly admit.
The build their building there because it is their property and in America you can use property the way you see fit. Who do you think you are that you can dictate where individuals build a community center simply because it brings out the bigot in you that you seemingly are too cowardly to openly admit.
The build their building there because it is their property and in America you can use property the way you see fit. Who do you think you are that you can dictate where individuals build a community center simply because it brings out the bigot in you that you seemingly are too cowardly to openly admit.
The build their building there because it is their property and in America you can use property the way you see fit. Who do you think you are that you can dictate where individuals build a community center simply because it brings out the bigot in you that you seemingly are too cowardly to openly admit.
Its all legal, though.
If anything, the protests are an indication that this is precisely the location where work needs to be done to "promote healing" and demonstrate that all Muslims are not alike. This is entirely consistent with the stated intentions of those who want to build the cultural center and mosque.
At this point I really don't think right-wingers have any right to boast about America's greatness, since they fight everything that makes America great. It's particularly irritating when righties boast of America's religious tolerance, while at the simultaneously working overtime to bring us back to the dark ages.
As I wrote elsewhere in this thread: for almost ten years conservative commentators have been asking, "How come more Muslims don't denounce terrorism more publicly and more visibly? What kind of 'religion of peace' is this that doesn't speak out louder against violence?" Well here's a group that's trying to do exactly that, in the most prominent way possible, in a place where a positive association with peaceful Muslim religion and culture is needed vitally... and they're being told to go away and shut up.
and what actions would those be that your looking at? the ones where they want to build a Islamic community center to help with outreach so that non Muslims can find out what Islam is really about instead of the right wing version of it? just an FYI for you. there were Muslims killed on 9/11 in the trade centers as well. it was not a religion that killed those people. it was 19 crazy Saudis.
You fail on two counts. First of all, the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were Muslims has as much to do with their actions as the fact that Timothy McVeigh was a fundamentalist Christian.
Second, have you ever been to Gettysburg? Did you know the Southern states have battlefield monuments there?
Am I the only one who remembers the bruhaha about a statue of Crazy Horse at Little Big Horn? When the war is over it's over. That's the whole idea, isn't it?
3,000 innocent people died on 9/11... how many innocent people have died in Iraq? How many more have to die to satisfy the Troglodyte Jingoists?
In the wingnut mind sphere, you aren't "innocent" if you are muslim.
You are now promoted to be one of my privates.
Gen.G.Beck
Army of the stupid
Amazing how that 'liberal' media in America (and Canada for that matter) simply doesn't report on such things. So the death toll for 3000 dead Americans is at the least 600,000 dead Iraqis, and more likley closer to 1,000,000. Lovely.
In addition Burnham's study, while controversial, is very tight in its methodology. You'll notice that a lot of the people that are claiming it is false information or poor statistics are people who just 'feel' that it's wrong. That the number is too high, or so they 'think'. Well, guess what? Those people who 'feel' the number is wrong usually have no basis in statistical reality whatsoever. They can't tell why the Main Street Bias is perhaps a somewhat legitimate claim to consider, nor why using 47 centres is a perfectly legitimate method of conducting surveys of this type.
More to the point, it's odd how the United States itself has accepted studies done with exactly the same research methodology in places like Congo, where it has a much less direct role in the violence and deaths. Odd, is it not, that the government in the U.S. (not to mention various right-wing think tanks and groups) have SUCH an issue with the exact same methodology when applied to Iraq.
In short, your claim that The Lancet numbers are not "reliable" should probably be forwarded to Burnham and various scientific journals. If you're in possession of some new material or criticism that breaks ground on their study, when many of the 'problems' you refer to are answered already, you should pass it along to the correct people so that they can publish it.
The idea that THEIR clusters can be extrapolated is what the problem is. There's NO evidence from ANY site that there's a direct correlation between their figures and actual results!
As I keep asking, and have yet to see a wingnut response on this, if this Muslim group shouldn't build a community center 2 or 3 blocks from Ground Zero, then shouldn't we tear down the many christian churches around the OK City Federal Building where McVeigh, a self avowed Christian, said he was doing God's work in trying to take down the Government?
Now, think about that for a minute, and realize how stupid that sounds (and it is stupid), and then relate it back to this community center, and how STUPID it sounds that they shouldn't build there.
A) Allah
B) The presence of the U.S. in Saudi Arabia, the support of Israel by the U.S., and U.S. sanctions against Iraq.
This is something that the conservative media very conveniently overlooks when it repeatedly plays the victim role concerning the war on terror: 9-11 was a disaster for Muslims and Arabs.
The fact that so many are reacting as if any Muslim presence anywhere near the site of the WTC is an insult or provocation indicates just how much need there actually is for a Muslim cultural center in that spot.
Conservative commentators have been asking, "How come more Muslims don't denounce terrorism more publicly and more visibly? What kind of 'religion of peace' is this that doesn't speak out louder against violence?" Well here's a group that's trying to do exactly that, and they're being told to shut up and go away.
Protesting Muslim presence near the WTC isn't going to close that 'open wound' of which you speak. In fact, it helps make sure that it never heals.
Read again: The people who attacked on 9-11 are not building the Mosque.
Do we blame all Christians for the inquisition, slavery, or Indian genocide? NO! Not all Christians supported those things and some denounced them. Some high level Christians supported or enabled Hitler. According to the logic of people like Beck, we should probably fear Christianity. Should we restrict where Churches are built?
Many 9-11 victims were angry that their suffering was used to justify war. Don't assume its a loss for them.
Neither is a good attribute, and BOTH are well-within your pattern of behavior.
And, do you, or do you not believe in freedom of religion in the United States? Do you, or do you not believe in the Constitution? I'd say, you don't, as voiciferiously sa you're coming out against this community center.
Ya right.
"they would build it a little further down the road"
Pa..lease! "There is nothing followers of Islam can do to make RW happy." Had the followers of Islam placed the community center down the road, the faked manufactured outrage of the Fix Propaganda Noise Machine would be the same. Wink, wink, nod, nod. Like this is not about scaring the yokels?
Are you and your RW cohorts saying you want 'the evil' government to have the power to tell you what to do and where to do it? Oh you mean it is 'them' and not you?
Ema Nymton
.
They're only for their OWN 'religious freedom.'
Their 'freedom' to force us all to comply with their world view. To take away our rights in the name of [their] "religious freedom."
The Right just DON'T KNOW freedom. They really have no clue anymore.
You want your rights protected? Vote for a liberal in hopes of some liberally activist judicial appointments.
---------------------------------------------
IMHO
Of that latter bunch, I really like the ignorance of Cal Thomas, who stated: "Ask yourself: if you wanted to infiltrate a country, wouldn't a grand strategy be to rapidly build mosques from Ground Zero in New York, to Temecula, Calif., and establish beachheads so fanatics could plan and advance their strategies under the cover of religious freedom and that great American virtue known as "tolerance," which is being used against us?"
Yeah Cal, if I wanted to 'infiltrate' (surreptitiously gain access) a country I'd build large buildings, in plain sight, with permission from the zoning commission.
Maybe Cal's point is that this community center and, yes, place of worship, could be a fertile ground for extremists to recruit future terrorists - if so, I understand. Cal might be ignoring the fact that certain 'three letter agencies' have infiltrated numerous groups, so collecting those possible extremists in one place might make surveillance easier. I think Cal is more likely to be ignoring the fact that those recruiters are looking for the disenfranchised - those with little hope or purpose - to strap on bombs (or whatever) and die for the cause. Community centers and places of worship build hope and give purpose, so I think that Cal is wrong.
Mostly, I think Cal and others are just unthinking bigots.
Maybe I should protest it because it's so close to the cradle of liberty.
Why didn't he bother to mention that after the Christians kicked out the Moors, that mosque again became a Church - Catholic, this time, of course.
This is very typical Newt Gingrich "history." Tell just a part of the story that "proves" his pre-conceived point. I don't think reverse engineering should be applied to history.
Newt is to history what a dickwad is to an orgasm.
Seriously... how long in human existence do we have to wait before we stop letting religious idiots jerk us around.
Do we ever get over it?
That's an excellent example of Ole Newt's and The Gov'Nor's religious tolerance. It's okey dokey just as long as it is their religion we're talking about! Other religions - not so much...
They weren't very tolerant, and that showed up really quickly.
There one can see a momument dedicated to the memory of soldiers who fought and died there from every state. That's right! The states that formed the Confederacy built monuments there, just like the states that formed the North.
See, that's what you are supposed to do when the war is over. You are SUPPOSED TO GET OVER IT!
If you're not going to do that, then there just isn't much point in having a war, now is there?
Actually it makes us look petty, hypocritical and fragile.
It seems that those who are so quick to shout their interpretations of the Constitution haven't bothered to actually read what it says.
Buildings with crescent moons?
Hell no!
Madrassas with crosses?
Okie dokie.
i realize that part of the anti mosque/center has some anti muslim elements. thats human nature. we live in a country that you can put a house of worship just about anywhere, but wheres the compasion on the part of the victims of 9/11 and there familys. and yes newt and others are fanning the flames, no question.
If the Muslim center was across the street ,I would agree with you but its not even in sight of ground zero.How do you tell this group of citizens it can't build something on private property because others complained?If you used someone's complaint in the satirical way I wrote about Okla city as justification to try to stop a church being built,no body would take it seriously because its a majority religion involved. So how religious would McVey/Nichols have had to be to make it the same as for the Mosque.If a white congregation was building a Church near a Black neighborhood and there were complaints that having a white church nearby reminded them of how white ministers used the bible to justify slavery,segregation,and benign tolerance of lynchings(1000's died this way) would anyone go along with it?...
In thier world, the Muslims decide to build elsewhere. Instead of congradulating the Muslims for agreeing with the Cons, they would immediately shout from the rooftops that the Muslims admitted that they were inolved with 9/11. If not, why would they not build in the original location.
CONLOGIC..a cold, dark place.
So placing the monument to kamikaze pilots a little further away from pearl harbor would be fine by his logic.
Wow!
Looks like Downthumb Dickwad has struck again.
At a few cents a click, they'll probably have enough to pay for carpal tunnel surgery.
Same thing today only change the label to either "racist" or "bigots".
Humbugs the lot of them!
W-H-A-T ??? There are over 10,000 people living in Battery Park City alone which is directly across from the WTC site. This does not include thousands of residents in rentals and condos within the parimeter of the proposed mosque which is two and a half blocks from the site. Since 9/11 many office buildings have been converted to residences in lower Manhattan.
BTW, there are 3 churches within a block of the WTC site: Trinity Church, St. Paul's Cathedral and St. Thomas R.C.
They favor religious freedom but...
They favor small government for corporations but...
They favor welfare for the rich but...
They favor open borders for capital and goods but...
They favor individual responsibility and freedom but...
They favor the right to life but...
If you think about it, there's a but after every single one of the core values they espouse. And these are no ordinary buts; they make the entire GOP platform and ideology entirely incongruous, paradoxical and therefore, nonsensical. No wonder even they and their devout followers and spokespeople seem so confused (and confusing) all the time.
1) Rupe and Ailes have told them so many times that the Constitution, Bill or Rights and Dec. of Independence don't really mean anything or in some case don't exist and they should spout that set of lies any way they can, OR
2) They're just stupid..
You pick which on I vote for ???!!???!?!??!