Right wing compares book burning to building a community center
Media conservatives, led by Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin, are comparing a Florida church's plans to burn Qurans on the anniversary of the 9-11 attacks to plans to build an Islamic community center in Manhattan.
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Florida church plans to burn Islamic and Jewish religious texts
AP: Christian minister "vowed" to "burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." A September 8 Associated Press article reported, "A Christian minister vowed Tuesday to go ahead with plans to burn copies of the Quran to protest the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks despite warnings from the White House and the top U.S. general in Afghanistan that doing so would endanger American troops overseas." AP continued:
Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center said he understands the government's concerns, but plans to go forward with the burning this Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the attacks.
He left the door open to change his mind, saying he is still praying about his decision, which was condemned Tuesday by an interfaith coalition that met in Washington to respond to a spike in anti-Muslim bigotry.
Gen. David Petraeus warned in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan - and around the world - to inflame public opinion and incite violence."
State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley echoed that, calling the plan to burn copies of the Quran "un-American" and saying it does not represent the views of most people in the U.S.
Miami Herald: Pastor "also plans to burn copies of the Talmud, a sacred Jewish text." A September 5 Miami Herald article reported that the Gainesville Dove World Outreach Center also plans to burn copies of the Talmud.
Right wing compares burning Qurans to building a community center
Beck: "It's just like the Ground Zero mosque plan." In a September 6 blog post to his website The Blaze, Glenn Beck wrote:
I'm on vacation and trying to unplug but the news can make that hard. I just read the story about the Florida church planning to burn copies of the Koran.
What is wrong with us? It's just like the Ground Zero mosque plan. Does this church have the right? Yes. Should they? No. And not because of the potential backlash or violence. Simply because it is wrong.
Palin: Quran burning "is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation - much like building a mosque at Ground Zero." In a September 8 post to her Facebook account, Fox News contributor Sarah Palin wrote:
Book burning is antithetical to American ideals. People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation - much like building a mosque at Ground Zero.
I would hope that Pastor Terry Jones and his supporters will consider the ramifications of their planned book-burning event. It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire. If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive.
Our nation was founded in part by those fleeing religious persecution. Freedom of religion is integral to our charters of liberty. We don't need to agree with each other on theological matters, but tolerating each other without unnecessarily provoking strife is how we ensure a civil society. In this as in all things, we should remember the Golden Rule. Isn't that what the Ground Zero mosque debate has been about?
Barnes: "[T]his is similar in one way to the Ground Zero mosque." On the September 7 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Bret Baier, Fox news contributor and Weekly Standard editor Fred Barnes criticized plans to burn the Quran, and claimed that "Islamophobia" was "not sweeping America." Barnes further claimed:
But look, this is similar in one way to the Ground Zero mosque, the mosque that is planned to be built on the fringe of Ground Zero. And that is, it is what Sarah Palin called an unnecessary provocation. And this is a provocation, and that's what General Petraeus is worried about.
Beck guest host Glover: "[T]his burning the Quran issue is very similar to building the mosque on ground zero." During the September 8 edition of The Glenn Beck Program, guest host Dave Glover said that the debate over whether it was appropriate to burn copies of the Quran was "about wise choices" and that "this burning of the Quran issue is very similar to the building of the mosque on ground zero." Glover further claimed, "Just because you have the right to do something doesn't mean you should."
Bolling and Geller agree: "The sensitivity issue" of Islamic community center and burning Qurans is "the same." During the September 7 edition of Fox Business' Money Rocks, host Eric Bolling claimed, "The sensitivity issue seems to be the key here for the mosque. Is it not the same issue with the Quran burning on Saturday?" He then asked, "So therefore, if you don't want them to burn the Quran on Saturday, why wouldn't Muslims -- moderate Muslims -- simply say, 'Hey, it's too sensitive an area downtown; move the mosque?'" Guest Pamela Geller, who has helped lead the push against the Islamic community center, said that the two were "the exact same issue." Geller also said that "the burning of books is wrong."
Boehner lumps in "Pastor Jones" with "those who want to build the mosque." During the September 8 edition of ABC News' Good Morning America, host George Stephanopoulos asked House minority leader John Boehner (R-OH) about Jones' plans to burn copies of the Quran. Boehner invoked the Islamic Community Center in Manhattan in his response: "Well, to Pastor Jones and those who want to build the mosque: Just because you have a right to do something in America does not mean it is the right thing to do."
Not radicals, Wahabi.
The distinction is important.
I feel both are provoking.
Tim McVeigh was a crazy rightwinger who blew up a Federal Building in Oklahoma City.
Should we tar all rightwingers and all Christians with the same broad brush that YOU want to paint all Muslims with?
Of course we shouldn't.
But you're right about one thing - the Koran book burning by a crazy rightwing Christian sect IS in bad taste. It's also VERY inflammatory.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a peaceful Islamic sect building an Islamic community center 2 1/2 blocks from Ground Zero. The ONLY reason to dislike this is bigotry - that's already been proven here multiple times.
Of course we KNOW that some people, even some 9/11 families ARE against this. We should NOT indulge bigotry! That's not what America is anymore. We've learned over 150 years that bigotry is wrong - bigotry against blacks, or women, or Irishmen, or Chinese, or Catholics, or gays, or Muslims. We aren't perfect, but just because we still have some bigoted people doesn't mean we should indulge them!
Well, it seems that you already have.
What a ridiculous assertion by you - no wonder you didn't provide a single example.
The other two guys are kept small in the frame, with cutaways to B roll of the trailer, and the large frame image of the host is shown shifting in his seat getting ready to interrupt. The host then asks them leading questions and then turns around and invites the lovely Ms. Geller to agree with him.
I'm curious, how many Bible burning events have there been in the US recently?
What's consistently obvious is that the opposition to the mosque was a manufactured controversy, just as burning of the Koran or Quran (pick your take) was designed as a manufactured controversy to get PR for some nasty piece of work preacher.
May the spirits of their dead ancestors visit them during this most holy of holy holidays.
Are you trying to say that it was the previous President's responsibility to tell Bush which flights the 9/11 terrorists were going to take? What does that POSSIBLY have to do with the actual topic here?
So, somehow it's the responsibility of the President who's been out of office for 9 months, but it's NOT the responsibility of the President who's actually IN office? How does THAT calculus work, doofus?
No one SAID that the PDB that Bush got in August was specific about which flight, but it SURE was specific in that there should have been increased activity. People should have been called back from vacations, threat level warnings should have gone out to ALL airports AND the public at large, all intelligence agencies should have put other stuff on the back burners while they tried to get up-to-date on all the intelligence that they had that needed to be interpreted/analyzed, etc, etc.
And no, not ALL administrations have ignored the Middle East. Jimmy Carter won a PEACE PRIZE, for god's sake!
What a dummy you are. You only post every once in a while - why did they bring your old sockpuppet identity out for THIS topic?
And to what purpose would you do that for? Even if the airports were under higher alert, the liberals of the nation would have made sure they were not harassed while standing in line to blow up an airplane. And why the public? Would you expect them to be 'wary' of middle-eastern people? Now that would surely upset the liberals again. Hate to have any profiling happen while we wait for al queda to attack us.
Your ideas are stupid.
You, sir, are being very bigoted. Be careful or sue will tell you to stop and call you a troll and demand others ignore you.
As per your examples, is the Klan or IRA or EPA (environment protection agency?) made any threats on the level of al queda recently? Or are you just talking history and you are ignoring present day FACTS?
AlQaeda hasn't done anything in the U.S of magnitude since 9/11. They were a two hit wonder (thank god). They did their job already and we've done more to self-destruct than they did. You are as likely to be killed in an attack by the Klan or the NeoNazis as by one form AlQaida. How many threats of level has AlQaeda made recently. They have become powerless and weak, and could have dispeared long ago if we had stayed the course and not get distracted by Iraq.
Then why do you fear a guy burning a quran? Would that be too much like swatting the bees nest, for you? Are you afraid al queda will come over and kill you? Are you afraid they will kill our troops? Well, I got news for you ... FLASH ... they are already doing it ... every chance they get.
Why would AlQaeda come and kill me? I don't see myself as important enough for my death to be used as a message.
Remember, Floyd, this too shall one day be "the past," what do you think 9-11 is by now? Are we supposed to forget it?
How about Pres. Andrew Jackson and his "Trail of Tears?" Custer's Last Stand? Don't you think they appeared as terrorists to their victims? Oh, yeah, that was all in the name of "expansion."
Anyone else find it interesting that this minister chose "Banned Books Month" for his little bonfire?
Anyone else notice that the good reverend chose National Banned Book month as well for the book burning? I know, I know, it was connected to 9-11, but book-burning and banned books ...
Has anyone been to the beach lately? Would al queda approve of the bikini's (or lack of) being worn on American beaches? So, that would mean there are American troops being put in danger every time someone wears a bikini (or anything less than a burka) to the beach.
Would they approve of women driving? Doesn't their strict form of islam prohibit women from driving? Would that endanger American troops too? Name something American that al queda would NOT kill additional troops because of.
Of course, you gotta love the irony with this book burning. Just a few days ago, there were so many claiming 'American rights' over the ability to build a community center 'where ever they want' because we are free to do what we want. But, all of the sudden some inbred backwoods numbskull wants to burn a quran and all of a sudden those 'American rights' are no longer valid. Suddenly, all those who support his 'right' as a free American are racist bigots, while the other ones (community center supporters) supporting American rights are valiant patriots. Hmmm, just seemed a bit hypocritical to me.
and a handful of extremists who hijack planes and crash them into buildings is about as representative as every Muslim as some psycho attention whore (looking for a job on Faux, no doubt) burning the Quran is representative of every Conservative Christian ...
but, of course, that's how the corporate media played it, fellating the conservatives ...
Al Qaeda is not attacking us simply "because America is America." The original basis for the anger and the continuing stoking of that anger is based on US activities in the Middle East. If we operated as a country exactly as we do with the exception of not involving ourselves in that region outside of some trade, it's unlikely we'd be anywhere near the target we are. Note: This is not a justification for their anger. It is, however, the largest part of the reason for it.
Your bikini and women driving analogies fall flat. Those are cultural norms that simply disregard extreme forms of Islamic law. There's a huge difference between casual disregard and a direct, flagrant attack on their religion such as would be shown by a burning of the Quran. They accept that people all over the world choose not to live by extremist Islamic law. Just as with extremist Christians, they don't like it and might wish to change it, but they don't view it as a direct attack. Bikinis and driving women in other countries simply aren't the kind of things to stoke anger. Deliberate destruction of the book that is the basis of their religion is.
Lastly, I haven't seen a single liberal argue against the right of that nutjob pastor to burn those Qurans. All I've seen is expressions of concern regarding the wisdom and sense of responsibility of doing so. You're finding hypocrisy where none actually exists.
NO they don't. Give ONE example of extreme Islamists accepting ANY other religions within their areas.
And you're wrong about 'why' they attacked us. It is precisely because America has it's own set of values and those values don't comply with their religious views. So, yes, a woman wearing a bikini on an American beach could in fact incite al queda to hate America more and possibly endanger American troops/lives.
sci-- Deliberate destruction of the book that is the basis of their religion is.
So, you're saying if I download a copy of the quran and then delete it, I have performed a "deliberate destruction" of their book? How about if I copy it onto a CD then smash it under my car wheels? Would that be "deliberate destruction"? Would I be endangering American troops by doing that? Ah ha ha ... some of the arguments you liberals come up with are pretty funny.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound? You are comparing our country with theocrats . . . is that what you want? Do you want our country to prohibit all other religions but that which you profess? I'm a lifelong Christian, but I don't share the beliefs of say, Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. They don't even share the same beliefs. Which Christian beliefs do we follow, Floyd?
Also, you are incorrect. Osama bin Laden's complaints about our country were quite specific. While he does see our country as being lewd, etc., his stated reasons for the attacks of 9/11 were in protest of our government's policies and our presence in the Middle East.
You would be endangering the troops if you made a huge show of deliberately destructing a huge pile of CDs or, as in the case, of the jackass in Florida, actual copies. He's doing it for publicity . . . he's crazy. He was run out of his church in Germany because of his "spiritual abuse" of his church members. He's got a book to sell and, like Glenn Beck, has decided to make an ass out of himself to sell it.
Let's say you are correct ... so then, what effect will this book burning have on our presence in the Middle East? If al queda is worried about our presence in the Middle East, then what we do in America will have NO effect to our mission over there. If you say it will have an effect then you are lying about the reasons OBL attacked us.
BTW, I like how you could give NO examples of extreme Islamists accepting ANY other religion within their areas. Good job of ignoring the main concern.
The Quran burning is a massive act of deliberate disrepspect and bigotry. Moderates would be insulted and if a terrorist group wanted, they could use the footage as a recruitment tool by showing a narrow view of the U.S and saying "They are like this. They despise Islam. They would desecrate everything we hold dear if given the chance. There is no peace that cna be achieved with them."
BTW, WHO will be providing that footage you fear so much? Perhaps if the news empire just ignored this nutcase of a pastor, NOTHING would happen. Islam would hear nothing about it and see nothing about it and know nothing about it. But, the liberal media empire is making sure that EVERYONE knows about this. If there's blame to go around for the fear caused by an action of one nut, then you need to use your mirror to find who that blame should go to.
Policies in the Middle East ARE the main reason for our problems in the middle east. Why do you think AlQaeda hasn't attcked equally liberal societies like Japan or Denmark? Publicly desecrating the quran does nothing to advance diplomacy.
Tell me if AlQaeda are just a bunch of puritans with hatred for any type of liberation why hasn't there been an attack in places like Sweden, or that "hole of depravity" that is the Netherlands. Shouldn't AlQaeda be bombarding them and call them the great satan in every one of their screeds?
Belgium
Luxemburg
Canada
Ireland
Russia
Vatican City
Italy
China
Japan
Senegal
Morroco
Netherlands
Denmark
Switzerland
Sweden
Realizing a fact is not showing support. Why don't you move out from your black and white and start seeing things with depth.
You use of use of argument by reductio ad absurdum with regard to the destruction of the Quran is just silly. You could delete holy books to your hearts content and run over piles of CDs with a steamroller and few would care. However, that pastor is being deliberately provocative and insulting. His entire intent is to cause offense and insult in a manner that will anger as many Muslims as he can while still being legal. It's a simple fact, whether you consider it logical or not, that this burning will anger many Muslims just as it would anger many Christians if I were to burn a stack of Bibles on national television.
You remain wrong in every way.
Spain was attacked as reintegration to dar al islam
Your opinion is duly noted, as incorrect as it is.
Obviously, you missed his point. His point is that even if the US completely pulled out of every site in the Middle East al queda AND other extremist Muslims would continue to attack the US and it's territories. Showing that bintx and sciencebuff don't know what they're talking about.
You two are very clearly the ones who know not whereof you speak.
Strategy
On March 11, 2005, Al-Quds Al-Arabi published extracts from Saif al-Adel's document "Al Quaeda's Strategy to the Year 2020".[33][34] Abdel Bari Atwan summarizes this strategy as comprising five stages:
Provoke the United States into invading a Muslim country.
Incite local resistance to occupying forces.
Expand the conflict to neighboring countries and engage the US in a long war of attrition.
Convert Al Qaeda into an ideology and set of operating principles that can be loosely franchised in other countries without requiring direct command and control, and via these franchises incite attacks against countries allied with the US until they withdraw from the conflict, as happened with the 2004 Madrid train bombings, but which did not have the same effect with the 7 July 2005 London bombings.
The U.S. economy will finally collapse under the strain of too many engagements in too many places, similarly to the Soviet war in Afghanistan, Arab regimes supported by the US will collapse, and a Wahhabi Caliphate will be installed across the region.
Hate to be a brain-dead "me-too" artist, but I'm glad someone finally said this. Manipulators and organizers like bin Laden may or may not care about the cause to which they rally their supporters. In any case, it is obviously secondary to the power they amass as a result of their (the supporters') efforts and sacrifices, or else, yes, he would have been one of the hijackers on 9/11/2001.
From the same source you CAN find their actual motivation. When bin Laden and al Qaeda issued their fatwa against the U.S. in 1998, they stated the following:
That sounds to me as though their reason for the fatwa is our presence and action in the Middle East. That isn't an isolated reference. Ramzi Yousef, who was the mastermind behind the first WTC bombing never mentioned religion as his motivation. He focused solely on U.S. activities in the Middle East.
There's more I could show you, but I'm satisfied that I've proven you wrong. I guess you're probably getting used to that by now.
Again, you're wrong. Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. Here is an excerpt from an OBL interview posted on the wiki site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_ideology_of_Osama_bin_Laden
"His interviews, video messages and other communications always mention and almost always dwell on need for jihad to right what he believes are injustices against Muslims by the United States and sometimes other non-Muslim states,[7] the need to eliminate the state of Israel, and to force the withdrawal of the U.S. from the Middle East"
I notice that the "policies of the US in the middle east" isn't mentioned as prominently as you demand they are. I notice "injustices against Muslims" IS. Which would include bikini wearing, womens rights and quran burning. AS I STATED! Is that enough proof or evidence for you? If you have any ability to comprehend things you read, then you may find that link quite eye-opening.
I doubt that in a random disgrunted muslim's mind, Women driving and wearing bikinis is in the same level as the Quran being burned to send the message that you ae not wanted.
Virtually the entire section in the website you listed (you really should learn how to do a link) entitled Grievances against the United States deals directly with our activities over there.
All you've really done is prove yourself wrong.
This "they hate our freedoms" and "they hate us because we are Americans" is ridiculous.
I might add that many, many Christians in this country do NOT approve of women in bikinis and there are some who do not approve of women driving or doing anything that they consider a man's duty.
Conflating a group building a community center on land that belongs to them with a man burning the holy book of a religion out of pure hate is just asinine. While they are both exercises of First Amendment rights, one is being done in peace . . . the other is being done out of hatred and bigotry. The real comparison would be the people who are PROTESTING the building of the community center and the hate-filled idiot in Florida. I know that was the talking point yesterday, but it falls flat. All three groups are exercising their First Amendment rights . . . it is their INTENT which makes them different.
Nice try, though.
You must be quite UNINFORMED also, then. What part of the Middle East is this Florida pastor going to burn his books in? Will it be Iran or Iraq? THAT part of the Middle East? Maybe he'll be in middle-eastern Florida, is that close enough? Again, how will this book burning affect our troops if (AS YOU SAY) all our problems are caused by the US policies in the Middle East??
Being a person who constantly demands proof of statements that right-wingers make, how about a little help with your statement. Of course you have evidence to support your stated FACTS that the reason bikinis are worn is only to disregard islamic law and that it isn't done to deliberately antagonize Muslims around the world.
Do you honestly believe there are large numbers of women who put on bikinis for the purpose of antagonizing Muslims? That's just stupid. Common sense tells us so. What's more, you won't find many Muslims anywhere in the world who believe that bikinis are being worn for the deliberate purpose of antagonizing Muslims. They have more common sense than you.
I suppose that disconnect from reality is just to be expected from someone who's so sick that he believes womanizing and rape are the same thing, as you do.
A rough analogy would be to equate Adolf Hitler with George Williams (founder of the YMCA). That's certainly a doozy and I wonder at the intellectual capacity of those that would accept the original proposition.
Do you know how many volumes the Talmud contains? Oh, and there's the Babylonian Talmud and then there's the Jerusalem Talmud. Duh! And each is divided up into six orders of general subject matter, which are then divided into 60 or 63 trachtates. Them's a-focused on subject compilations. And then all those are divided up into 517 chapters. And wait, there's more...but this is enough for now, boychicks.
So, once more, just what is this dumb goy gonna light-up? Cause that's a whole lotta books and they ain't cheap either, fella. Like a few thousand dollars for a decent set. It's not like a $1.95 copy of...what? Their bible? Oh, the Talmud is considerd the Oral Torah. The written Torah is the first five books of the Hebrew Bible.
So what are all them righteous Yehoodees...Jews, gonna do? Oh, like we're gonna march right down there and stone this dumb schmuck? Yeah, cause we're that meshuganah to do something like that? I don't think so...oy
The ground zero community center is not a provocation. It was not announced as a provocation and the builders did not draw attention to it to provoke. This is the exact opposite of the book burner. The only reason this community center is a provocation is because a certain party needs to scare the crap out of people to get elected again. If mosques at ground zero were provocations then there would have been issue with the real mosque four blocks from there and the Muslim prayer room in the building directly across the street from where the blasted plane hit the Pentagon.
Now I know why I wised up.
What happened that caused you to switch Parties? Need more entitlement money from the Government?
And you can call me "King OMG" from now on - since you associate me with one.
Just wondering.