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Fox Tries To Debunk Global Warming, Fails Miserably

January 27, 2011 12:09 pm ET — 193 Comments

In an article titled, "Five Reasons the Planet May Not Be Its Hottest Ever," FoxNews.com sought to debunk the fact that Earth has warmed over the past 30 years, as well as the notion that human activity has contributed to the warming. But Fox largely ignored climate science and botched basic facts in the article, portions of which "are utter nonsense" and "do not make sense" according to climatologists consulted by Media Matters, including one of the skeptics cited by Fox.

From FoxNews.com:

fox news screengrab

Fox Reports That Climatologist Roy Spencer "Takes Issue" With Data Adjustments

FoxNews.com: Roy Spencer "Takes Issue With The Way That Data Is Normalized And Adjusted." The FoxNews.com article did not provide any information about Spencer's concerns but reported in a section sowing doubts about the temperature data: "Satellite data is arguably the most accurate way to measure temperature. Roy Spencer, a climatologist and former NASA scientist, takes issue with the way that data is normalized and adjusted, instead presenting raw, unadjusted data on his website. The WMO does not use this data." [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

Spencer Says Fox's Reporting On Him "Does Not Make Sense"

Spencer: The Part That Mentions Me ... Does Not Make Sense." Media Matters asked Spencer via email to explain the "issue" Fox claimed he had with "the way that data is normalized and adjusted." In response, Spencer wrote that he "wasn't aware" of the FoxNews.com report. He further stated that he "read the part that mentions me, and it does not make sense." [Email to Media Matters, 1/26/11]

Spencer: "No One I Know Seriously Debates That Warming Has Actually Occurred." Spencer, who contends that the warming trend is natural rather than manmade, further told Media Matters via email, "I love FoxNews, but this was a little sloppy." He added: "We have differing opinions on the cause of warming...no one I know seriously debates that warming has actually occurred...so... ....I think whether 2010 was a record or not is not terrible relevant to the debate" [Ellipses in original]. [Email to Media Matters, 1/26/11]

Spencer's Data Is Not "Unadjusted." Spencer's website reports the "UAH [University of Alabama in Huntsville] Globally Averaged Satellite-Based Temperature of the Lower Atmosphere" and states that the datasets "represent the piecing together of the temperature data from a total of eleven instruments flying on eleven different satellites over the years." [DrRoySpencer.com, accessed 1/25/11]

  • Contrary to Fox's claim that Spencer presents "raw, unadjusted data on his website," Spencer explained via email that "[t]he raw satellite data DO need to be adjusted, and I post on my website (drroyspencer.com) monthly updates AFTER John Christy and I have performed those adjustments. [Email to Media Matters, 1/26/11]
  • Spencer's website also explains how UAH adjusts and corrects the raw satellite data. [DrRoySpencer.com, 1/6/10]

Spencer Himself Reported That 2010 Was Tied As Warmest Year On Record. Spencer and John Christy, both of the University of Alabama in Huntsville, reported that according to their data, "2010 finished in a photo finish with 1998 for the warmest year in the 32-year satellite temperature record." They further noted that "[b]oth 1998 and 2010 were years in which an El Nino Pacific Ocean warming event raised temperatures around the globe." [Newswise.com, 1/18/11]

  • USA Today also reported:

In a separate global temperature report released last week, 2010 finished in a tie with 1998 for the warmest year in the 32-year satellite temperature record, according to John Christy, professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at the University of Alabama-Huntsville (UAH).

Unlike the climate center's surface-based temperatures, UAH's data are based on instruments aboard satellites from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that measure the temperature of the atmosphere from the surface up to an altitude of about 5 miles above sea level.

The satellite data show that the globe continues to warm unevenly. Warming increases as you go north: The Arctic Ocean has warmed an average of almost 3 degrees in the past 32 years. [USA Today, 1/13/11]

Fox Pushes Claim That El Nino Is Causing Global Warming

FoxNews.com: Joe Bastardi Says El Nino Caused Warming Of Past 30 Years. From the FoxNews.com article:

Of course temperatures are up, said Joe Bastardi, a meteorologist with Accuweather: It's El Niño, stupid.

"El Niños cause spikes up. La Niñas drop it down," Bastardi told FoxNews.com. "Why have we gone up overall in the past 30 years? Because we've been in a warm cycle in the Pacific," he said. "But the tropical Pacific has cooled dramatically, and it's like turning down your thermostat -- it takes a while, but the house will cool." [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

Scientists Say El Nino Can't Explain The Long-Term Warming Trend

Kevin Trenberth Of NCAR: "The Statements Are Utter Nonsense." Kevin Trenberth, head of the Climate Analysis Section at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR), told Media Matters via email:

The heat has to come from somewhere.  In El Nino: or really the ENSO cycle of El Nino and then La Nina, the heat builds up during La Nina, and then is redistributed and comes out of the ocean during and following El Nino.

This is well documented (I can point you to papers).  So there is a mini global warming (increase in temperature) in the latter part of El Nino.

The heat has to come from somewhere and so if the climate is warming because of a warm cycle in the Pacific, where did the heat come from?  If it just comes from the ocean then the ocean must be cooling down.  It isn't.  Of course it is global warming from increased greenhouse gases that warms the ocean!

The statements are utter nonsense. [Email to Media Matters, 1/26/11]

David Pierce Of Scripps Institution Of Oceanography: "The Up-And-Down Temperature Sequence" Of El Ninos "Does Not Match" The Long-Term Warming Trend. David Pierce, a climate scientist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography responded to the question, "How do climate scientists know that the warming in the past 30 years is not due to El Ninos?" by writing:

This question reminds me of when I was young, and my grandfather took me and my 5-year old cousin on an elevator ride.  My grandfather told her that if she jumped up and down, she could jump to the top of the building. So she energetically jumped up and down, and after a minute the elevator doors opened, and there we were at the top of the building!  My cousin was mighty impressed.

Of course, she was only 5, so we can forgive her for not understanding that it's perfectly possible for two things to be happening at the same time. She was jumping up and down, but the elevator car was going up at the same time.  El Nino and the warming we have seen over the last 30 years are like that.  We have had El Ninos (warm events) and La Ninas (cold events), which push the Earth up and down in temperature.  (By the National Center for Environmental Predictions's count -- they are part of NOAA, who also runs the National Weather Service -- we have had about 11 El Nino (warm) events since 1970, and about 10 La Nina (cold) events).  At the same time, there has been a long-term, systematic warming of the planet.  So the main way we know that El Nino is not responsible for the "global warming" in recent decades is that the up-and-down temperature sequence of the El Ninos and La Ninas does not match the long-term, secular rise in temperatures.

Another way you can check if El Nino/La Nina are responsible for he planetary warming is by examining the regions that they tend to influence, and see if there is a match.  The planetary warming can be seen across broad swaths of the globe, but is concentrated in the polar regions.  El Nino warming is concentrated in the tropics.  So the spatial signature of El Nino warming does not match the spatial pattern of global warming either. [Email to Media Matters, 1/26/11]

RealClimate: Scientists Have "Known For Decades" That El Nino Correlates With Global Temperatures. From a July 2009 post on Real Climate, a science blog written by working climate scientists:

First, there is an atrocious paper that has just been published in JGR by McLean, de Freitas and Carter that is doing the rounds of the denialosphere. These authors make the completely unsurprising point that that there is a correlation between ENSO indices and global mean temperature - something that has been well known for decades - and then go on to claim that that all trends are explained by this correlation as well. This is somewhat surprising since their method of analysis (which involves taking the first derivative of any changes) eliminates the influence of any trends in the correlation. [RealClimate.org, 7/24/09]

Scientists Seek To Account For El Nino Effects When Evaluating Climate Change. Physicist John Cook wrote on his website that "[t]here have been various attempts to filter out the ENSO signal from the temperature record," adding that analyses have confirmed that El Ninos have a "strong short term effect on global temperature but cannot explain the long term trend." From the post:

An examination of the temperature record from 1880 to 2007 finds internal variability such as El Nino has relatively small impact on the long term trend (Hoerling 2008). Instead, they find long term trends in sea surface temperatures are driven predominantly by the planet's energy imbalance.

There have been various attempts to filter out the ENSO signal from the temperature record. We've examined one such paper by Fawcett 2007 when addressing the global warming stopped in 1998 argument. Similarly, Thompson 2008 filters out the ENSO signal from the temperature record. What remains is a warming trend with less variability. [SkepticalScience.com, 9/3/10]

Climate Scientist Jim Hurrell: La Nina Had Cooling Influence In 2007 And 2008 -- Years That Were "Still Much Warmer Than The Long-Term Average." From an October 2009 PolitiFact article:

Jim Hurrell, a senior scientist with the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., says these natural temperature variations are expected. 

"In the same way that El Nino made 1998 warm, in 2007 and 2008, La Nina made global temperatures a bit cooler than they have been running, but still much warmer than the long-term average," Hurrell said referring to El Nino's cooler counterpart. [PolitiFact.com,10/27/09]

NOAA Oceanographer: El Nino Events Occur "On Top Of" Warmer "Baseline Temperatures." The New York Times reported in September 2010:

Drastic die-offs of coral were seen for the first time in 1983 in the eastern Pacific and the Caribbean, during a large-scale weather event known as El Niño. During an El Niño, warm waters normally confined to the western Pacific flow to the east; 2010 is also an El Niño year.

Serious regional bleaching has occurred intermittently since the 1983 disaster. It is clear that natural weather variability plays a role in overheating the reefs, but scientists say it cannot, by itself, explain what has become a recurring phenomenon.

"It is a lot easier for oceans to heat up above the corals' thresholds for bleaching when climate change is warming the baseline temperatures," said C. Mark Eakin, who runs a program called Coral Reef Watch for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. "If you get an event like El Niño or you just get a hot summer, it's going to be on top of the warmest temperatures we've ever seen." [The New York Times9/20/10]

Fox Cites Claim That December 2010 "Was The Second-Coldest December" On Record

FoxNews.com Cites Claim That "December 2010" Was Second-Coldest On Record. From the FoxNews.com article:

4. Besides, it's getting chilly. 2010 may have been a warm year, but 2011 has been off to a very cold start -- and may be among the coldest in decades. 

"December 2010 was the second-coldest December in the entire history dating back to 1659," noted Steve McIntyre, a climate scientist and the editor of climate blog Climate Audit. He bases his claim on data from the longest continuous record in the world, kept by The Met Office, the U.K.'s official weather agency.

It's an odd fact, one Bastardi thinks is telling. He said that the transition from the El Niño warming period into the La Niña cooling period will herald a crash of global temperatures, normalizing world heat levels -- especially when analyzed via Spencer's satellite data charts. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

But Fox Pointed To Data For The UK, Not For The Entire Globe

McIntyre Reported December Values For "CET - Central England." FoxNews.com links to a January 4 blog post by Steve McIntyre which states:

December values of the longest instrumental record in the world (CET - Central England) are just in.

December 2010 was the second-coldest December in the entire history dating back to 1659 (including the Little Ice Age.) Only Dec 1890 was colder (by a slim 0.1 deg C). [ClimateAudit.org, 1/4/11]

  • Data Represent Part Of United Kingdom, Not The Entire Globe. The Met Office states that the CET dataset is "representative of a roughly triangular area of the United Kingdom enclosed by Lancashire, London and Bristol." [Hadobs.MetOffice.com, accessed 1/26/11]

December 2010 Was Colder Than Normal In Some Regions But Warmer Than Normal For The Planet. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) reported: "The combined global land and ocean average surface temperature for December 2010 was 0.37°C (0.67°F) above the 20th century average of 12.2°C (54.0°F). This tied with 1982 and 1994 as the 17th warmest December on record." NCDC further stated:

Regionally, a strong negative phase of the Arctic Oscillation brought cooler-than-average temperatures to large portions of the Northern Hemispere land areas. The United Kingdom's temperatures were, on average, about 5°C (9°F) below the 1971-2000 average during the month of December, making it the coldest December in more than 100 years, according to the UK Met Office. [NOAA, January 2011]

Met Office: 2010 Was "Second Warmest Year On Record." From a Met Office news release:

The Met Office and the University of East Anglia have today released provisional global temperature figures for 2010, which show the year to be the second warmest on record.

With a mean temperature of 14.50 °C, 2010 becomes the second warmest year on record, after 1998. The record is maintained by the Met Office and the Climatic Research Unit at UEA.

Earlier this month, in the US, NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and NOAA's National Climatic Data Center announced that the past year is either warmest or equal-warmest on their respective records.

Events in the Pacific Ocean have heavily influenced the global temperature in 2010. The year began in El Niño conditions, which have a warming effect. But the El Niño was replaced by a very strong La Niña - the strongest for more than 30 years - which acts to cool the climate. [Met Office, 1/20/11]

Barry Grommett Of Met Office: "The Important Picture Is Global." The Telegraph reported on January 21:

Barry Grommett, of the Met Office, said a freezing start to the year in January and February and then the coldest December ever recorded brought down the temperature in the UK.

Both weather patterns were caused by a blocking pattern of high pressure in the mid atlantic that cut off mild westerly wind and made the UK and most of the rest of western Europe colder than usual.

However at the same time the rest of the world was having heatwaves. In particular it was a warm winter in Canada and Siberia and eastern mediterraean.

Greenland lost more ice than any other year while the capital of Greenland, Nuuk, had the warmest spring and summer since records began in 1873.

Mr Grommett said despite the cold year in the UK the world is warming.

"It is a natural perception to look out window and see snow and think the world cannot be possibly be warming but the UK is a small dot on the world surface and the important picture is global and in that 2010 has been a very warm year." [Telegraph1/21/11]

Fox Falsely Suggests Meteorologist Anthony Watts Has Shown That Temperature Data Exaggerate Warming

FoxNews.com: "The Land Data Is Being Challenged Extensively By Anthony Watt [sic]." From the January 24 FoxNews.com article:

But how reliable is the data? Here are five good reasons some scientists are skeptical of these claims.

1. Where does the data come from? Average temperatures globally last year were 0.95 degrees Fahrenheit (0.53 Celsius) higher than the 1961-90 mean that is used for comparison purposes, according to the WMO -- a statement based on three climate data sets from U.K. and U.S. weather agencies. They gather readings from land-based weather and climate stations, ships and buoys, and satellites -- and they've come under dramatic scrutiny in recent years. 

The land data is being challenged extensively by Anthony Watt on his SurfaceStations.org website. Watts recently graded 61% of the stations used to measure temperature with a D -- for being located less than 10 meters from an artificial heating source. Many climate skeptics also take issue with NASA and NOAA, the U.S. agencies that gather U.S. climate data, but also manipulate and "normalize" it. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

In Fact, Watts' Claims Are Based On Photographs Of Weather Stations, Not Actual Analysis of Temps

Jeff Masters: "Watts Did Not Actually Analyze The Data To See" If The Observed Global Temperatures Were Biased.  Jeff Masters, director of meteorology for Weather Underground, a commercial weather service, wrote on January 25, 2010:

Former TV weatherman Anthony Watts, who runs the popular global warming contrarian website, "Watts Up With That", was convinced that many of the U.S. network of surface weather stations had serious flaws in their siting that was causing an artificial warm bias in the observed increase in U.S. temperatures of 1.1°F over the past century. To address this concern, Watts established the website surfacestations.org in 2007, which enlisted an army of volunteers to travel the U.S. to obtain photographic evidence of poor siting of weather stations. The goal was to document cases where "microclimate" influence was important, and could be contaminating temperature measurements. (Note that this is a separate issue from the Urban Heat Island, the phenomenon where a metropolitan area in general is warmer than surrounding rural areas). Watts' volunteers--650 strong--documented the siting of 865 of the 1,218 stations used in the National Climatic Data Center's U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) for tracking climate change. As reported in Watt's 2009 publication put out by the Heartland Institute, the volunteers "found stations located next to the exhaust fans of air conditioning units, surrounded by asphalt parking lots and roads, on blistering-hot rooftops, and near sidewalks and buildings that absorb and radiate heat." Watts surmised that these poorly-sited stations were responsible for much of the increase in U.S. temperatures over the past century, due to "a bias trend that likely results from the thermometers being closer to buildings, asphalt, etc." Watts concluded, "the U.S. temperature record is unreliable. And since the U.S. record is thought to be the best in the world, it follows that the global database is likely similarly compromised and unreliable".

While Watts' publication by the Heartland Institute is a valuable source of information on siting problems of the U.S. network of weather stations, the publication did not undergo peer-review--the process whereby three anonymous scientists who are experts in the field review a manuscript submitted for publication, and offer criticisms on the scientific validity of the results, resulting in revisions to the original paper or outright rejection. The Heartland Institute is an advocacy organization that accepts money from corporate benefactors such as the tobacco industry and fossil fuel industry, and publishes non-peer reviewed science that inevitably supports the interests of the groups paying for the studies. Watts did not actually analyze the data to see if taking out the poorly sited surface stations would have a significant impact on the observed 1.1°F increase in U.S. temperatures over the past century. His study would never have been publishable in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. [Wunderground.com, 1/25/10]

Chip Knappenberger: Watts Has Not Shown "That There Is A Warm Bias In the Adjusted U.S. Temperature Record As A Result" Of Any Bias In The Stations. Andrew Revkin reported that Chip Knappenberger, "a frequent critic of climate overstatement," stated of Watts' work:

I've seen a lot of Anthony Watts' presentations and pictures of poorly sited thermometers, but never an analysis to conclusively show that there is a warm bias in the adjusted U.S. temperature record as a result. Yes, many sites are poorly situated and the temperature they read is impacted by things other than the larger-scale weather -- but also, such things are being corrected for (or at least an attempt is being made to correct for them) by the various producers of a U.S. temperature history (i.e. Menne et al. at NCDC). So, while the raw data are undoubtedly a mixture of climate and non-climatic influences, the adjusted data presumably have more of a climate signal. The recent paper by Menne et al., seems to bear this out. Anthony Watts and colleagues, no doubt have an analysis of their own in the works. It'll be interesting to see what their results show. The results from Menne et al. suggest that while a picture may be worth a thousand words, it is the data which actually tells the story. I await a formal analysis from Watts et al. and the story that it may tell. [NYTimes.com, Dot Earth, 1/28/19]

Peer-Reviewed Study Found Slight "Cool" Bias, Not Warm Bias, From Poorly Placed Stations. A peer-reviewed study by NOAA scientists and published in the Journal of Geophysical Research addressed Watts' research and found "no evidence" that the temperature trends "are inflated due to poor station siting":

Recent photographic documentation of poor siting conditions at stations in the U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) has led to questions regarding the reliability of surface temperature trends over the conterminous United States (CONUS). To evaluate the potential impact of poor siting/instrument exposure on CONUS temperatures, trends derived from poor and well sited USHCN stations were compared. Results indicate that there is a mean bias associated with poor exposure sites relative to good exposure sites; however, this bias is consistent with previously documented changes associated with the widespread conversion to electronic sensors in the USHCN during the last 25 years. Moreover, the sign of the bias is counterintuitive to photographic documentation of poor exposure because associated instrument changes have led to an artificial negative ("cool") bias in maximum temperatures and only a slight positive ("warm") bias in minimum temperatures. These results underscore the need to consider all changes in observation practice when determining the impacts of siting irregularities. Further, the influence of nonstandard siting on temperature trends can only be quantified through an analysis of the data. Adjustments applied to USHCN Version 2 data largely account for the impact of instrument and siting changes, although a small overall residual negative ("cool") bias appears to remain in the adjusted maximum temperature series. Nevertheless, the adjusted USHCN temperatures are extremely well aligned with recent measurements from instruments whose exposure characteristics meet the highest standards for climate monitoring. In summary, we find no evidence that the CONUS average temperature trends are inflated due to poor station siting. [Journal of Geophysical Research, 6/8/10]

  • Watts Plans To Publish His Own Analysis. Watts wrote in May 2010 that the study in the Journal of Geophysical Research "'borrowed' my incomplete surfacestations rating data against my protests." He added, "Assuming we aren't blocked by journal politics, we'll have the surfacestations analysis results in public view soon. If we are blocked by journal politics, we'll have other ways." [WattsUpWithThat.com, 5/19/10]

New Network Of U.S. Climate Stations Meets Higher Standards. According to NOAA, the Climate Reference Network (USCRN) is a new network of weather stations that "adhere to all of the Global Climate Monitoring Principles and are located are located in areas free local human influences and have excellent site location characteristics. They are closely monitored and are subject to rigorous calibration procedures. It is a network designed specifically for assessing climate change." [NOAA, 7/6/09]

  • Study Found Adjusted Temperature Data Are "Well Aligned" With Results From New Stations. The study in the Journal of Geophysical Research found that "the USHCN adjusted data averaged over the CONUS are well aligned with the averages derived from the USCRN for the past five years." [Journal of Geophysical Research, 6/8/10]

Temperature Measurements Aren't The Only Reason Scientists Say The Globe Is Warming. NOAA explains that in addition to temperature measurements, "other independent observations" confirm the warming trend:

Thousands of land and ocean temperature measurements are recorded each day around the globe. This includes measurements from climate reference stations, weather stations, ships, buoys and autonomous gliders in the oceans. These surface measurements are also supplemented with satellite measurements. These measurements are processed, examined for random and systematic errors, and then finally combined to produce a time series of global average temperature change. A number of agencies around the world have produced datasets of global-scale changes in surface temperature using different techniques to process the data and remove measurement errors that could lead to false interpretations of temperature trends. The warming trend that is apparent in all of the independent methods of calculating global temperature change is also confirmed by other independent observations, such as the melting of mountain glaciers on every continent, reductions in the extent of snow cover, earlier blooming of plants in spring, a shorter ice season on lakes and rivers, ocean heat content, reduced arctic sea ice, and rising sea levels. [NOAA, accessed 1/26/11]

Fox Cites Lord Monckton's Claim That Antarctic Ice Undermines The Case For Global Warming

Fox Trumpets Lord Monckton's Claim That Loss Of Arctic Sea Ice Has Been Matched "By A Near-Equally Rapid Gain of Antarctic Sea Ice." From the FoxNews.com article:

2. There's less ice is in the oceans. Or more. Or something. The WMO report notes that Arctic sea-ice cover in December 2010 was the lowest on record, with an average monthly extent of 12 million square kilometers, 1.35 million square kilometers below the 1979-2000 average for December. The agency called it the third-lowest minimum ice extent recorded in September.

In fact, the overall sea-ice record shows virtually no change throughout the past 30 years, argued Lord Monckton, a British politician, journalist, and noted skeptic of global warming. He points out that "the quite rapid loss of Arctic sea ice since the satellites were watching has been matched by a near-equally rapid gain of Antarctic sea ice." 

When the summer Arctic sea ice reached its lowest point in the 30-year record in mid-September 2007, just three weeks later the Antarctic sea extent reached a 30-year record high, Monckton said. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

Climate Scientists Note Antarctic Sea Ice Trend Does Not Disprove Global Climate Change

Arctic Sea Ice Is Declining Faster Than Antarctic Sea Ice Is Increasing. Contrary to Monkton's claim, the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) states: "Although Arctic sea ice extent underwent a strong decline from 1979 to 2009, Antarctic sea ice underwent a slight increase. The Antarctic ice extent increases were smaller in magnitude than the Arctic increases, and some regions of the Antarctic experienced strong declining trends in sea ice extent."

sea ice chart[NSIDC.org, accessed 1/25/10]

Scientists Note That Arctic And Antarctic Sea Ice Aren't Expected To Act The Same Way. The Christian Science Monitor reported in January 2008:

For some commentators, the out-of-sync trends in sea ice at the two poles is evidence that warming isn't global and doesn't deserve the international angst it triggers.

Not so fast, many researchers respond. Northern and southern sea ice shouldn't necessarily act in lock-step. "Antarctic sea ice is such a different animal," says Douglas Martinson, another polar-ice specialist at Lamont-Doherty. Geographic and oceanographic differences - a virtually landlocked ocean in the north versus an open ocean in the south - encourage the buildup of thick, long-lasting, multiyear ice in the Arctic Ocean. Antarctica's sea ice, by contrast, is largely thin and seasonal. In winter, Antarctic sea ice covers an area nearly twice the size of Europe. By the end of summer, it shrinks to one-sixth of its winter extent. These wide swings make it difficult to tease out long-term trends in ice cover there. [Christian Science Monitor, 1/10/08]

NSIDC: "Loss Of Ozone" And "Increases In Greenhouse Gases" Affect Winds And Ice. From NSIDC: 

Wintertime Antarctic sea ice is increasing at a small rate and with substantial natural year-to-year variability. Specifically, the months of May, June, July, September and October show trends of increasing sea ice extent that are just slightly above the mean year-to-year variability (for example, the October trend is 0.8% per decade ± 0.7% as of 2010). In more technical terms, the trends are statistically significant at the 95% level, although small.

Climate model projections of Antarctic sea ice extent are in reasonable agreement with the observations to date. The dominant change in the climate pattern of Antarctica has been a gradual increase in the westerly circumpolar winds. Models suggest that both the loss of ozone (the ozone hole that occurs in September/October every year) and increases in greenhouse gases lead to an increase in this climate pattern.

When winds push on sea ice, they tend to move it in the direction they are blowing, but the Coriolis effect adds an apparent push to the left. In the unconfined system of Antarctic sea ice, this pushes the ice northward away from the continent. By spreading sea ice westward and a little northward (and since we measure extent with a 15% cut-off) the gradual trend towards faster mean winds means a gradual trend toward spreading of the ice cover.

Moreover, this trend towards stronger circumpolar winds appears to be causing the sea ice decline near the Antarctic Peninsula. In general the winds tend to dive slightly southward as they approach the Peninsula, an effect of the mountain ridges of the Andes and other circulation features in the Amundsen and Bellingshausen Sea. A stronger wind from the northwest brings warmer conditions and therefore less ice to the region. Lastly, the El Nino and La Nina cycle also appear to influence sea ice in the Pacific sector. El Nino patterns (a warm eastern tropical Pacific) are associated with warmer winds and less ice; the opposite is true for La Nina.

Even if wintertime Antarctic sea ice were to increase or decrease significantly in the future, it would not have a huge impact on the climate system. This is because during the Antarctic winter energy from the sun is at its weakest point; its ability or inability to reflect the sun's energy back into space has little affect on regulating the planet's temperature.  [NSIDC.org, December 2010]

Recent Study Shines Light On Why Antarctic Sea Ice Has Been Increasing. Discovery News reported in August 2010:

For years scientists have puzzled over how the sea surface temperature around Antarctica has risen, but sea ice there has been increasing at the same time.

"We just want to understand this paradox," said Jiping Liu of Georgia Institute of Technology. "For the past 30 years, the Arctic sea ice has been decreasing while Antarctic sea ice has been increasing. We've been trying to explain this."

To do that, Liu and veteran climate modeler Judith Curry analyzed Southern Ocean temperature records and the best simulations of sea surface temperature.

They found that higher sea surface temperatures during the last half of the 20th century probably revved up the hydrological cycle above the Southern Ocean, creating a situation in which more sea ice can grow. In other words, higher sea surface temperatures increased evaporation in more temperate zones, which ramped up precipitation closer to Antarctica.

That additional precipitation has yet another effect that helps increase sea ice: It lowers the salinity of the surface water, which slows the melting of sea ice, Liu explained. The result is that the growth of sea ice has outpaced melting.

But the ice building and preserving effects are only temporary, Liu told Discovery News, who with Curry published their findings in the latest issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

If the sea and air warm even more in the 21st century, as projected, much of that extra snowfall could turn into rainfall, which would rapidly melt ice all around the southernmost continent. [Discovery News, 8/16/10]

Monckton Believes Climate Treaty Will "Impose A Communist World Government On The World." During an October 2009 presentation in Minnesota, Moncton stated:

MONCKTON: How many of you think that the word election or democracy or vote or ballot occurs anywhere in the 200 pages of that treaty? Quite right, it doesn't appear once. So at last the communists who piled out of the Berlin Wall and into the environmental movement and took over Greenpeace so that my friends who founded it left within a year because they'd captured it, now the apotheosis is at hand.

They are about to impose a communist world government on the world. You have a president who has very strong sympathies with that point of view. He's going to sign. He'll sign anything. He's a Nobel Peace laureate -- of course he'll sign. And the trouble is this: If that treaty is signed, your Constitution says that it takes precedence over your Constitution. And you can't resile from that treaty unless you get the agreement of all the other states' parties. [Media Matters10/14/09]

Monckton Previously Advocated Quarantining AIDS Patients "For Life." In a 1987 American Spectator article, Moncton advocated requiring the entire population to undergo monthly HIV tests and forcibly quarantining "for life" those who test positive. [Media Matters12/11/09]

Fox Falsely Claims Japan's Meteorological Agency "Agrees" That El Nino Caused The Warming Of Past 30 Years

FoxNews.com: "Japan's Meteorological Agency Agrees With Bastardi's Conclusion." From the FoxNews.com article:

Of course temperatures are up, said Joe Bastardi, a meteorologist with Accuweather: It's El Niño, stupid.

"El Niños cause spikes up. La Niñas drop it down," Bastardi told FoxNews.com. "Why have we gone up overall in the past 30 years? Because we've been in a warm cycle in the Pacific," he said. "But the tropical Pacific has cooled dramatically, and it's like turning down your thermostat -- it takes a while, but the house will cool."

Japan's Meteorological Agency agrees with Bastardi's conclusion, stating recently that "it can be presumed that the high temperatures in recent years have been influenced by natural climate fluctuations with the periods ranging from several years to several decades," as well as by greenhouse gases including CO2.

"This year's warming can also be attributable to an El Niño event which lasted from summer 2009 to spring 2010," the agency said. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

The Article Itself Contradicts This Claim. As the FoxNews.com article itself notes, the Japan Meteorological Agency stated that natural variations and human-caused greenhouse gas emissions have contributed to recent warming, meaning that natural causes alone cannot account for all of the increase. The agency's news release reported that the global average temperature in 2010 is "most likely to become the second warmest record since 1891." [Japanese Meteorological Agency, 12/21/10]

  • Japan Meteorological Agency Is Reportedly Concerned About "Heat-Trapping Gases." Kyodo News Service reported on December 19, 2010, that the Japan Meteorological Agency "requested 330 million yen in its fiscal 2011 budget request for strengthening countermeasures against global warming, with officials saying it is crucial to monitor the heat-trapping gases to come up with effective measures to prevent global warming." [Kyodo News Service via BBC Worldwide Monitoring, 12/19/10, accessed via Nexis]

Fox Baselessly Claims 2011 "May Be Among The Coldest In Decades" 

Without Providing Any Sources, FoxNews.com Claims 2011 "May Be Among The Coldest In Decades." From the FoxNews.com article:

4. Besides, it's getting chilly. 2010 may have been a warm year, but 2011 has been off to a very cold start -- and may be among the coldest in decades. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

Met Office: La Nina Expected To Push Down Global Temperature In 2011. The climate research centers have not released any temperature data for 2011. However, the Met Office wrote on December 2, 2010, that 2011 is "unlikely to be a record year" due to the cooling effect of La Nina, but did not predict, as FoxNews.com does, that it will be "among the coldest in decades." From the Met Office news release:

The Met Office annual global temperature forecast for 2010, Climate could warm to record levels in 2010, issued at the COP15 talks in Copenhagen, predicted that the year was "more likely than not" to be the warmest year. Dr Adam Scaife, head of long range forecasting at the Met Office said, "The three leading global temperature datasets show that, so far, 2010 is clearly warmer than 2009 despite El Niño declining and being replaced by a very strong La Niña, which has a cooling effect."

Although La Niña has stabilised, it is still expected to affect global temperature through the coming year. This effect is small compared to the total accrued global warming to date, but it does mean that 2011 is unlikely to be a record year according to the Met Office prediction based on the three main datasets. Nevertheless an anomaly of 0.44 °C is still likely -- with the range very likely to be between 0.28 °C and 0.60 °C. The middle of this range would place 2011 among the top 10 warmest years on the record. [Met Office,12/2/10]

Met Office: Cooling Influences Of La Nina "Can Strongly Influence Individual Years," But Are "Quite Small" Compared To Long-Term Warming. The Met Office further stated:

Interannual variations of global surface temperature are strongly affected by the warming influences of El Niño and the cooling influences of La Niña in the Pacific Ocean. These are quite small when compared to the total global warming since 1900 of about 0.8 °C but nevertheless typically reach about ±0.10 °C, and can strongly influence individual years. [Met Office, 12/2/10]

Fox Misleadingly Cites 1970s Prediction Of Global Cooling 

FoxNews.com: In 1970, "One Researcher Predicted That The Planet Would Be 11 Degrees Colder" By 2000.  From the FoxNews.com article:

5. Forecasts are often wrong. Predicting the weather -- especially a decade or more in advance -- is unbelievably challenging. In 2000, a scientist with the Met Office's Climatic Research Unit declared that within ten years, snowfall would be "a very rare and exciting event." 

And in 1970 at the first Earth Day event, one researcher predicted that the planet would be 11 degrees colder by the year 2000. [FoxNews.com, 1/24/11]

Prediction Attributed To Kenneth E.F. Watt. In an article from December 30, 2010, FoxNews.com attributes to Kenneth E.F. Watt the statement: "If present trends continue, the world will be ... eleven degrees colder by the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us in an ice age." [FoxNews.com, 12/30/10]

Kenneth Watt Is Not A Climate Scientist. According to a July 23, 1985, Washington Post report, Kenneth E.F. Watt was "a zoologist at the University of California, Davis." [The Washington Post, 7/23/85]

Watt Worked With Group That Claims Increased Greenhouse Emissions Are A Good Thing. Watt is listed in as an advisor to the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change. [Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, accessed 1/26/11]

  • Group Received FUnding From Exxon Mobil. The New York Times reported in September 2005 that the British scientific group the Royal Society "contends that Exxon Mobil is spreading "inaccurate and misleading" information about climate change and is financing groups that misinform the public on the issue." The article further reported that the Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change was among the groups funded by Exxon Mobil in 2005 according to the Royal Society. [The New York Times8/21/06]
  • The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change reportedly pushes the notion that "putting more CO2 in the air would actually be good for the planet." [Mother Jones, 12/4/09

There Was No Consensus Among Climate Scientists On Global Cooling In The 1970s. A September 2008 article in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, a peer-reviewed publication, investigated the "pervasive myth" that "there was a consensus among climate scientists of the 1970s that either global cooling or a full-fledged ice age was imminent." The article found:

A review of the climate science literature from 1965 to 1979 shows this myth to be false. The myth's basis lies in a selective misreading of the texts both by some members of the media at the time and by some observers today. In fact, emphasis on greenhouse warming dominated the scientific literature even then. [Bulletin of the American Meteorological SocietySeptember 2008]

Survey: 97% of 77 Active Climate Scientists Said "Human Activity Is A Significant Contributing Factor" In Changing Global Temperatures. A survey conducted by Peter Doran and Maggie Kendall Zimmerman of the University of Illinois asked Earth scientists:

1. When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?

2. Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?

With 3146 individuals completing the survey, the participant response rate for the survey was 30.7%. This is a typical response rate for Web-based surveys.

[...]

Results show that overall, 90% of participants answered "risen" to question 1 and 82% answered yes to question 2. In general, as the level of active research and specialization in climate science increases, so does agreement with the two primary questions. In our survey, the most specialized and knowledgable respondents (with regard to climate change) are those who listed climate science as their area of expertise and who also have published more than 50% of their recent peer-reviewed papers on the subject of climate change (79 individuals in total). Of these specialists, 96.2% (76 of 79) answered "risen" to question 1 and 97.4% (75 of 77) answered yes to question 2. [Eos, Transactions, American Geophysical Union1/20/09]

Study: 97-98% Of The Most Active Climate Researchers Support Tenets Of Human-Caused Climate Change. From a study led by William Anderegg of Stanford University:

Although preliminary estimates from published literature and expert surveys suggest striking agreement among climate scientists on the tenets of anthropogenic climate change (ACC), the American public expresses substantial doubt about both the anthropogenic cause and the level of scientific agreement underpinning ACC. A broad analysis of the climate scientist community itself, the distribution of credibility of dissenting researchers relative to agreeing researchers, and the level of agreement among top climate experts has not been conducted and would inform future ACC discussions. Here, we use an extensive dataset of 1,372 climate researchers and their publication and citation data to show that (i) 97-98% of the climate researchers most actively publishing in the field support the tenets of ACC outlined by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and (ii) the relative climate expertise and scientific prominence of the researchers unconvinced of ACC are substantially below that of the convinced researchers.  [Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences6/21/10]

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by CrashGordon (January 27, 2011 12:13 pm ET)
      3 1
      Every chance I get, I like to post a link to a series of videos on youtube that are very interesting. It takes a while to get through all of them, but they're really worth it. The first two are mostly science, but then the rest of them are quite entertaining because they deal with debunking a lot of the junk science and "scientists" who are perpetuating the debate.

      If anyone wants to learn a lot more about the issue of global climate change, watch these videos.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by m.welker (January 27, 2011 5:37 pm ET)
        5  
        I wonder if it is worth listing this much research refuting claims which have no research to back them.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by CrashGordon (January 28, 2011 8:26 am ET)
          6  
          Unfortunately, just because claims have no research to back them doesn't seem to be diminishing their following. What's worse, as noted in the video series, a claim will get started as nothing more than conjecture (or in some cases, an outright distortion) but it will quickly be sourced by others and before long it looks like a valid claim. It's important not to lose site of what is actually supported by data and what's not.
          Report Abuse
      • Author by fairliberal (January 29, 2011 9:43 pm ET)
        3 11
        Global warming is nothing more than a very lucrative profit center for the likes of Al Gore and his cronnies.

        http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/globalwarming.html

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRnpuRPfQxU
        Report Abuse
    • Author by David2012 (January 27, 2011 12:17 pm ET)
      5  
      I think that for every story on climate change that Fox News runs in December or January, they should run one in July and August.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ScienceBuff (January 27, 2011 12:39 pm ET)
        4 2
        Then they'll only cite data from the southern hemisphere.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (January 27, 2011 2:39 pm ET)
          8 2
          Accroding to Fox, if any one small part of the globe is cooler, than the entire globe can't possibly be warming.

          The clouds will all burst into flame before these fools will stop pushing thir junk-science in the name of protecting corporate profits. You know what else is warming? HELL. Due to the "potential energy" of all the souls on the Right who will eventually end up there.

          -------------------------------------
          IMHO
          Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (January 27, 2011 12:50 pm ET)
        4 1
        No need to wait until then. Using their methods, the lack of snow at the Australian Open proves global warming.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by JBarr (January 27, 2011 3:48 pm ET)
          4 28
          What about the junk scientist who made crap up to support global warming in the first place? Oh, those are liberal progressives so it is ok for them to make crap up. Give me a break!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by raddave43 (January 27, 2011 4:04 pm ET)
            18 6
            No one made up crap to support global warming to begin with you idiot.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Maimon (January 27, 2011 10:02 pm ET)
            12 2
            Actually, the US Navy supports the idea of Global climate change. they have kept alot of records on polar ice for submarine warfare.

            There is nothing "JUNK" about it. The majority of climatologist agree that the climate is changing and we are having an impact on it. The only real points of contention are: how much of an impact are humans having on it, what will be the results, and what predictive models are the most likely and accurate.

            Your disbelief doesn't change anything. It was like when peoplesaid, " Hey there might be a link between smoking and cancer". Teh reaction was teh following

            -Absolute denial" No link exists"
            -Studies begin showing a link. The reaction was," This is only on or two studies it proves nothing"
            -More studies apear showing links.The reaction was to start some fake studies funded by the tobacco industry. Block any legislation.
            -Overwhelming scientific evidence showing a causal link between smoking and certain forms of cancer. Suddenly all the opponents have an epiphany and pretend to have always thought that smoking was bad.

            Global weather and climate is influenced by our presence. When cut down the forests we have less filtering capacity. When you alter the acidic/alkalein levels of the oceans, you limit the planets ability to cycle properly. When you over populate, you stress teh system. When you alter the atmosphere, you trap heat and affect the overall ability of the planet to balance.

            I am not a doomsday type of person, but this is all obvious.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by JW, Denver (January 29, 2011 4:57 pm ET)
            4 3
            LOL.

            Ah, the ole, "It's cold outside today. Global climate change must be a lie."
            Report Abuse
          • Author by rjw.walker5519 (January 30, 2011 11:13 am ET)
            4 2
            >>What about the junk scientist who made crap up to support global warming in the first place? Oh, those are liberal progressives so it is ok for them to make crap up. Give me a break!

            Name? Publication? Reasons to question what was written?

            I strikes me that you could have made up your assertion, and that the lack of any specifics whatsoever supports my skeptical response to your assertion.

            BTW: "_the_ junk scientist." Are you saying "it" all started with one guy?

            Maybe you're thinking of Svante Arrhenius, "first to claim in 1896 that fossil fuel combustion may eventually result in enhanced global warming. He proposed a relation between atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations and temperature."

            http://www.lenntech.com/greenhouse-effect/global-warming-history.htm#ixzz1CXGKojHn

            What are your reasons for asserting he was a "junk scientist?"

            Oh, wait, he was a Swede, of course, and we know that all Swedes are liberal progressives, so we know anything he thought was junk science....
            Report Abuse
        • Author by JBarr (January 27, 2011 3:48 pm ET)
          1 20
          What about the junk scientist who made crap up to support global warming in the first place? Oh, those are liberal progressives so it is ok for them to make crap up. Give me a break!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by jjamele2880 (January 27, 2011 6:40 pm ET)
            8 2
            Ah, good to see that you are ignorant in more than one subject. Great job!
            Report Abuse
        • Author by raddave43 (January 27, 2011 4:05 pm ET)
          4  
          huh? It's summer in Australia
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Avicenna (January 27, 2011 12:33 pm ET)
      10 3
      Uh, look at the melting glaciers, fools. In America.

      Hey, Fox, is your next special titled:

      "The earth is really flat: The lies you have been taught," starring Glennie Beck and Sean Hannity, two of the most highly educated media pundits in the history of, er, well, uhm, Fox News!

      (Note: We did not compare these hosts to comparable hosts on PBS, BBC, NPR, etc. because those hosts were actually graduated from four-year universities, and some hold more than one degree, some have more than a bachelor's, and some know how to spell. But, don't let them deter you from believing an orange-haired wonder and a guy who uses enough hair spray to freeze-frame most cities.)
      Report Abuse
    • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 12:43 pm ET)
      4 2
      Can you all hear the distant patter of hooves as the Fox Rough Riders make their way to this thread to set the record "straight" in 3...2...1....
      Report Abuse
      • Author by steeve (January 27, 2011 12:50 pm ET)
        3 2
        They won't come because this is indefensible.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Old_Benjamin (January 27, 2011 1:14 pm ET)
          7  
          I guess you haven't checked the other thread on this subject. They have come.
          Report Abuse
        • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 1:16 pm ET)
          7 16
          No, most likely because it's the same regurgitated arguments from both sides over and over. The right mocks and makes fun of Al Gore, or stands on snowbanks saying global warming doesn't exist and the left huffs and puffs and hauls out scientist's graphs and climate tables and mounds of peer reviewed research.

          In the meantime, sensible environmentally aware people quietly do the right thing, in their own corner of the world, to take reasonable care with regards to the footprints they leave on our planet.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 1:37 pm ET)
            14 5
            I could almost agree with you, Tommy, if it weren't for the arrogant anti-intellectualism. "[S]ensible environmentally aware people quietly do[ing] the right thing" is a nice idea, but the vast bulk of climate modifying activity comes from cars, coal-fired power generation, and factories. Individuals who take the time to compost and bike to work, when that's even possible, can only make the slightest of dents in the total carbon footprint.

            If it weren't for those "scientist's graphs and climate tables and mounds of peer reviewed research," we wouldn't really know alot about the problem. We'd have an inkling that the earth was heating up, but we'd have to make the kind of uneducated guesses that gave us such reasoning as the Ptolemaic solar model, the persistent notion that the world was flat, and just about every single religion the world has ever suffered. Furthermore, without those scientific papers and decades of research, we'll never convince enough Americans that we need to enact regulation to curb carbon emissions dramatically enough to effect the necessary changes. This is why polluters put so much money and effort into disinformation campaigns, and why Republicans and Fox have planted their flag on this hill. Their interests come before the interests of the country, let alone the rest of the planet.

            Science is a good thing. Characterizing the refutation of superstition and stupidity with scientific research as "huff[ing] and puff[ing]" is counterproductive. There's a reason why leftys are better educated and have a tendency to use science and research to validate our opinions. Facts have a liberal bias.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 1:42 pm ET)
              6 17
              What is arrogantly anti-intellectual is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Translation; all your experts and graphs will never convince the Fox'ers or the hated right wing of your position, yet you keep getting all indignant every time their is a snowstorm.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:00 pm ET)
                15 5
                Heh. In the first sentence you create a whole new definition of anti-intellectualism not found in any dictionary, and in the second you engage in more anti-intellectualism. Wow.

                But the portion of your post that most caught my interest was, "...you keep getting all indignant every time their [sic] is a snowstorm." ...I get indignant every time there's a snowstorm? You really need to stop constructing narratives based upon lies, Tommy. I like snow. We don't get much where I'm from. And I don't care if the "Fox'ers" are ever convinced; they're a tiny, tiny minority of willingly misinformed malcontents.

                The vast majority of Americans are reasonable people who, in contrast to your average fan of Fox News, want to know the truth. Science is the method by which mankind has freed itself from the pig-ignorant state that existed before the Enlightenment. Science is good. The only people who don't like science are religious fanatics and idiots, but I repeat myself.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 2:02 pm ET)
                  2 11
                  "I like snow"

                  Best response...(never mind) lol
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:12 pm ET)
                    7 1
                    Me liking snow is funny? How is that funny?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 2:17 pm ET)
                      4 13
                      Because my comment was not about your personal like or dislike of snow, it was about the right's eagerness to pounce on any snowstorm and "tweak" the left about it disproves global warming - and the left's reaction, ("damn snowstorms!") as I mentioned in my first post.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:23 pm ET)
                        13 2
                        Yeah, you didn't mention "the left's reaction ("damn snowstorms!") in your first post. If you had, I would have lumped it in with your other invalid premises. Most people who pay attention to the annual tradition of mouthbreathers pointing to snow as a refutation of global warming are bemused, not enraged, by the phenomenon. The Daily Show's skit from last year's Washington DS snowpocalypse sort of encapsulates the general sentiment.

                        What anger actually presents isn't addressed at snowstorms, it's at the blatantly dishonest messaging that's funded by polluters and political opportunists. But nice Limbaugh style deflection from the actual issues. I like the use of the word "tweak."
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 2:26 pm ET)
                          5 15
                          Deflection? You are a mess. I summed the issue up in my first post and you have only reinforced everything I said about the left. Except that you are too simple to realize it, so you just keep doing it and doing it.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:38 pm ET)
                            10 2
                            You didn't say anything about the left cursing snowstorms, disliking it when it snows, or any other permutation or combination thereof. Your original post contrasted what you called the "same regurgitated arguments from both sides over and over:"

                            1) The right mocks and makes fun of Al Gore, or stands on snowbanks saying global warming doesn't exist

                            and

                            2) the left huffs and puffs and hauls out scientist's graphs and climate tables and mounds of peer reviewed research.

                            Now, it's possible that you meant to write something about the left's distaste for snow and just forgot. Or it's possible that you thought you had and just didn't think to check what you wrote before claiming that that's what you wrote. The third option is that you're doing what you've oftentimes done, which is revise the historical record of the debate and hope nobody goes back and checks what was really said.

                            I will make no claims that I know which of the three options best fits this situation, but I will say that your original post can, in no way, be construed as saying the left hates snowstorms.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 2:43 pm ET)
                              5 18
                              And you keep doing it and doing it. For crying out loud. Besides being an obstinate contrarian whose only purpose in our discussions is to find some irrelevant tangential point and beat it to death from some stupid argumentative standpoint, what is your goal except to make me laugh at you?

                              Because lately that is all it's doing. Grow up.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:54 pm ET)
                                12 3
                                Just can't admit when you're wrong, huh Tommy? This is the pattern we've all come to know and...you make a claim, and you base it upon information that's tenuous, to be charitable, and then you defend it to the death, regardless of reason or logic. And then you lash out. Your argument thus far has:

                                1) Made anti-intellectual statements;

                                2) Attempted to redefine the term "anti-intellectualism;"

                                3) Revised the very short history of the thread because it wasn't convenient to say, "Well I meant to say....;" and,

                                4) Lashed out multiple times as a cover for the fact that you, per usual practice, don't like debating concepts on the merits.

                                This isn't a credible argument, Tommy. But it is the accurate record of where you've stood, thus far.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 3:07 pm ET)
                                  5 12
                                  You're really serious, aren't you? Your posts are so moronic and hysterical I swear you make them with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek. Nobody can be that simple. But I was wrong.

                                  You want an instance where I was wrong? You got one.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 3:14 pm ET)
                                    10 2
                                    You just can't debate in good faith, can you, Tommy? You just can't help yourself. If the opportunity to slip in a lie presents, no matter how small, you just jump in with abandon. You're a liar. I know that that's a pejorative, but there's no avoiding the conclusion: you lie in every debate. That's just sad.
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 3:27 pm ET)
                                      4 13
                                      I am sorry if you're feelings were hurt, but you get what you give out. And considering the nasty insults and ridiculous accusations you haul out around here constantly you have no business lecturing anyone on debating in good faith. That is utterly incredible.

                                      Grow up, and stop whining about the treatment you receive. Act like an adult instead of a bratty 6 year-old and you may garner a more gentle tone.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 3:39 pm ET)
                                        9 2
                                        Okay, missed-the-point guy. You lied, but rather than just admit it and move on, you construct another lie by implying that I'm "whining about the treatment [I] receive." I really couldn't care less about the vituperation and generic insults you toss at me. I happened to note it in my breakdown of your argument, but only as it pertains to your inability to just debate a point with integrity. That you don't like me, well, considering the source, that would seem to serve as proof that you can't refute what I say.

                                        So, like I said, you're a liar. There's just really no other way to look at you, Tommy. You're a liar and a blowhard. You mass produces strawmen, bluster and lash out when you can't refute, and you just make crap up constantly. You're a sad, desperate little man, Tommy. I feel sorry for you.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 4:00 pm ET)
                                          3 12
                                          Then I'd suggest your ignore my lies and generic insults and strawmen and crap by skipping right over my posts. It's easy you know, if you see that cute little pup in the avatar, click your little mouse a little faster until it disappears - and then you're home free.

                                          Try it.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 4:27 pm ET)
                                            8 2
                                            Nope. Sorry, fellah, but like Media Matters itself, I'm dedicated to exposing and countering rightwing disinformation. So just consider yourself my little project.
                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by southerngal (January 27, 2011 4:48 pm ET)
                                              2 8
                                              Fine, then your gnat-like flutterings will continue to get swiped at while you forge ahead in your countering mission.

                                              I can slap you around and still maintain a thoughtful discussion with someone worthy. So you have no affect. But hey, if it gives you relevance to make me your project, I am happy to oblige.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 4:57 pm ET)
                                                7 1
                                                Oh, that's just really funny. See, in a debate, it's not called slapping someone around when you keep getting caught in lies, constructing strawmen, and making up whatever facts you can't find to bolster your point. That's called being a pathetic loser with no skill at debate. I love the complete lack of self-awareness, though. It's very wingnut-y.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by datruthfarmer (January 28, 2011 10:46 pm ET)
                                                  5 1
                                                  RO, it is not about you. It is about the people who read this stuff. You lost, again.

                                                  n'nest, thanks for the education. You the Yoda.
                                                  Report Abuse
                              • Author by barscotch9441 (January 29, 2011 9:50 am ET)
                                6  
                                Can you explain, please, right ON, why conservatives are so against preserving the environment? Is it Limbaugh's old cling to creationism? This was his defense of polluters, whereby because God created us and the earth, we are somehow alchemically incapable of destroying His creation. Or is it because - and I suspect that for the conservative leadership, this is it - the corporatist tendencies of the GOP make conservatives unwilling to force ridiculously huge industrial interests to spend the time and money to keep their and - by extension - our backyards clean?

                                Is there an "Option 3"; one that doesn't make modern conservatives look amoral and explotative?
                                Report Abuse
                    • Author by Festus (January 27, 2011 2:21 pm ET)
                      4 14
                      When it (snow) goes up N'est-ce pas' nose it makes him actually believe that liberal global warming, global climate change clap trap.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 27, 2011 2:24 pm ET)
                        11 3
                        Shouldn't you be teaching a class, Festus? Or were you not being 100 percent honest when you said you worked in public education?
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by raddave43 (January 27, 2011 4:08 pm ET)
                        13 1
                        well part of the "global warming, global climate change clap trap" is that there will be more violent storms produced, so yes, more heavy snow fall does support the "global warming, global climate change clap trap"
                        Report Abuse
    • Author by steeve (January 27, 2011 12:48 pm ET)
      11 1
      "Fox Pointed To Data For The UK, Not For The Entire Globe"

      If Fox News had just come into existence, this one point would be enough to call for its removal from the national airwaves. This point is so crystal clear that even a conservative would immediately concede it.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by rwmacdonald2091 (January 27, 2011 5:13 pm ET)
      6 2
      Just lower the tax rates, that will take care of Climate Change. Can't you lefties/commies/socialists/nazis understand that.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (January 27, 2011 6:53 pm ET)
        6 1
        You forgot antibacterial/neojacobin/pesudoislamofascist.

        The Priminister

        of no Fixed Address.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by hatesoros (January 27, 2011 10:55 pm ET)
         
      All global warming advocates are basing their science on tree rings which go back roughly one thousand years. Gore's famous chart with hockey stick graph goes back 1000 years

      Anyone wanting the real truth only needs to go on line and look at the ice core sample from studies from Green land and the north and south poles that go back over 100,000 years. There they analize the gases in the ice cores which is infinitely more accurate and they have found that actually the earth warms up which directly leads to release of more green house gases. They have found that the gases are now lower than they have been over the past 100,000 years. Looking at Gores chart the next 1000 years back was much higher than it is now.

      Global warming is a complete hoax. Check out the ice core samples from those glaciers which are hundreds of thousands of years old and then find a way to spin the truth.

      The truth is the earth is in a cooling cycle like it has gone through before and will go through again.

      If you have the balls do your own researh for ten minutes and find out the real truth
      Report Abuse
    • Author by punkin (January 28, 2011 7:43 am ET)
      4 1
      Fow News = Don't let facts and truth get in your way of reporting
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 9:52 am ET)
      2 9
      Has anyone correlated any warming trend with unusual activity in the earth's core? Do you think heat from the earth's core could be melting some of the arctic ice?

      Your text to link here...

      Of course the biggest problem with this theory is that you cannot blame and tax the US.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by caerbannog (January 28, 2011 11:03 am ET)
           
        The bigger problem with your theory is that is has no connection to reality.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 12:01 pm ET)
        7 1
        Maybe you should look at earthquakes, has anyone ever correlated any warming trends with that?

        Of course the biggest problem with this theory is that you cannot blame and tax the US.

        Why not? Who says the maganetic pole isn't shifting because of the density of your brain affecting is affecting the magnetic field flux.

        As an experiment, why don't you move to Somalia and see if the magnetic pole shifts accordingly.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 12:05 pm ET)
            10
          Or maybe you should take a look at volcanic activity melting ice in Iceland.

          You obviously have no intent for serious debate as your puppet master has pulled your strings in the other direction.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 12:40 pm ET)
            7  
            You actually meant that question seriously?? I highly doubt that but; why don't you show me a link to this unusual activity in the earth's core that you talk about. It might be interesting to learn how the heat output from the core could be affecting the earths warming trend.

            You obviously have no intent for serious debate as your puppet master has pulled your strings in the other direction.


            Thanks for not mentioning his name. It really is too early in the day to start drinking.


            Report Abuse
            • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 28, 2011 1:59 pm ET)
              6 2
              Did he really say "volcanic activity...in Iceland" is responsible for global warming? Like volcanic activity in Iceland is new? It's just started up? Because, I thought it was called the land of fire and ice for a reason....
              Report Abuse
              • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 3:06 pm ET)
                7  
                Well, I believe his contention is that volcanic activity in Iceland is a refutation of glacial melting (around the world) brought on by global warming. (e.g. Look! Something shiny!)

                Still the funny thing is that is intention is to have a "serious" debate.
                As we used to say, in the "old days", ROTF LMFAO!!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by CoolSlaw (January 29, 2011 11:38 pm ET)
                  3  
                  My friends, it looks like it's time for a...

                  Journey to the Center of the Earth!

                  On the way we can battle mole people and discover Atlantis. Sure beats all that boring climate science and correlated data. Why bother looking at the facts and long term studies when you can deny it out of partisan convenience and propose fancy theories based on stuff that makes cool movie titles?
                  Report Abuse
      • Author by Old_Benjamin (January 28, 2011 12:04 pm ET)
        3  
        Has anyone correlated any warming trend with unusual activity in the earth's core? Do you think heat from the earth's core could be melting some of the arctic ice?


        What happened to blaming sun spots? Way to move the goal osts.

        The magnetic north pole is always slowly moving and is currently heading towards Russia from its current position in far northern Canada.


        Did you mean to link to an article about the movements of the magnetic poles? Cause that's just stupid.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 12:07 pm ET)
            6
          Yeah, it's just plain stupid that you could possibly be wrong.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Old_Benjamin (January 28, 2011 1:48 pm ET)
            6  
            Yeah, it's just plain stupid that you could possibly be wrong.


            About what? That you posted a link to an article about shifting magnetic poles to prove that the earth's core is responsible for any warming the earth is experiencing? Did I miss something? Are you saying activity at the earth's core is increasing in temperature?

            Please continue I find you fascinating in a pathetic kinda way.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by CoolSlaw (January 29, 2011 11:48 pm ET)
              4  
              Yeah but Jose4 needs to believe the truth and scientific studies are wrong because the right wing mouthpieces need useful idiots to defend their negligence in the pursuit of their bottom line.

              Yeah sure...the earth's core could be warming up. It could be reversing a multi billion year trend, sure...why not? I mean it's a lot easier to propose unsound sci-fi then to refute mountains of evidence and multiple studies.

              My turn:

              Hey, I think all the additional cellular traffic from the proliferation of cell phones is causing global warming, when the signals go out, they disrupt the molecular structure of icebergs. So it IS all man's fault....now refute THAT bit of "sounds cool but has no scientific basis in reality" theory jose4!
              Report Abuse
        • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 12:18 pm ET)
            4
          Also note that the magnetic pole hasn't always been moving at 64 kilometers/year.

          It is about 300% higher than what has been normal.

          Also see if you can find out the last time the airport had to change runway designations because of the pole shift.



          Report Abuse
          • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 12:29 pm ET)
            4  
            Also see if you can find out the last time the airport had to change runway designations because of the pole shift.

            If you mean in general look in the article you linked to silly, otherwise, per your link, dependant on where they are located some airports will have to change runway designations more often than others but; every 50 years or so. How long have we been using airports?

            Stansted Airport in London having to do the same thing in 2009, redesignating its 3,000 meter runway 23/05 as 22/04.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 12:47 pm ET)
                4
              I am considering that centrifugal forces of the super heated spinning mass (the earth's core) cause the distance to change from the heat to the ice as the axis of rotation changes.

              Was the earth warming or cooling the last time the airport adjustment were made 50 years ago? And which way was the adjustment made?



              Report Abuse
              • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 1:24 pm ET)
                4  
                I am considering that centrifugal forces of the super heated spinning mass (the earth's core) cause the distance to change from the heat to the ice as the axis of rotation changes.

                As Sarah Palin would say: "WTF" are talking about?

                Was the earth warming or cooling the last time the airport adjustment were made 50 years ago? And which way was the adjustment made?

                You do realize that the runway disignations are changed due to changes in "magnetic north", correct? That has NOTHING to do with whether the earth was warming or cooling 50 years ago.

                Here is a decent article on the earth's magnetic field and the magnetic north. Read it really slowly and maybe you can get something out of it.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 1:28 pm ET)
                    5
                  I see you are putting yourself on Palin's intellectual level.

                  And I notice that you have no idea what generates the earth's magnetic field.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 3:23 pm ET)
                    6  
                    I see you are putting yourself on Palin's intellectual level.

                    Naw, just allowing for the fact that you may actually make less sense than Bible Spice.

                    And I notice that you have no idea what generates the earth's magnetic field.

                    Since I don't have a PHD in earth sciences, geology, and physics (which I'm sure that you do) why don't you explain it to me?

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 1:32 pm ET)
                    4
                  And in the article you cite from 2003

                  The pole kept going during the 20th century, north at an average speed of 10 km per year, lately accelerating "to 40 km per year," says Newitt. At this rate it will exit North America and reach Siberia in a few decades.

                  Note in the article that I posted it is now 64km/year.

                  The global alarmists get all upset over a few percent change.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 1:36 pm ET)
                    3  
                    You are aware that plate tectonics have no effect on the atmosphere, right?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 1:51 pm ET)
                        3
                      You are aware that heat rises from the earth's core and melts ice, right?

                      You are aware as something molten spins very fast it bulges at the circumference?

                      And that molten spinning iron generates a magnetic field?

                      And that if the magnetic field is changing so is the spinning core?

                      And if the spinning molten core is bulging in different places it affects how much heat is transferred from the core to the surface?

                      And as the ice melts it changes ocean flow and affects weather?

                      The world is a little more complicated than what Al Gore wants you to believe.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 2:18 pm ET)
                        3  
                        Ice does not rest on the exact surface of the earth. Ice rests on thick sheets of bedrock. If it rested directly on the surface, it would be too hot for ice to even form.

                        The melting of the glaciers and permafrost is not affected by geothermal changes or plate tectonics (what you were sugeesting), much less by the movement of the magnetic poles. Volcanoes throw into the atmosphere SO2 particles, which have a COOLING effect because they block the sun.

                        When ice melts, yes it desalinates water, changing its properties and affect the air currents, but human intervention outweights natural with the excessive amount of CO2 we exhume.

                        Bitching about Al Gore just deligitimzes your point as anybody who is trying to have na honest discussion is aware that AL Gore is not a scientist.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by CoolSlaw (January 29, 2011 11:56 pm ET)
                        3  
                        Jose4 has latched onto this new weird theory because it sounds cool, and it fits his desire to take any theory that refutes what scientists and climatologists all around the world have been studying and finding for decades.

                        Some guy put together a bunch of cherry picked facts on unrelated geological studies and strung them into a theory for the sole purpose of muddying the waters.

                        What's worse it that the right wing consensus seems to be that even IF all the indicators of climate change aren't 100% man-made, we still should do nothing, and that it's perfectly okay to befoul the environment long term in the pursuit of short term profit.
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 1:58 pm ET)
                    3
                  Your text to link here...

                  Heat Flow in the Arctic
                  interpretation of land heat-flow patterns is yet possible in the Arctic. However
                  , careful study of some of these geothermal results yields insight into ...
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 2:02 pm ET)
                    3  
                    You are aware that data is more than 40 years old right?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:05 pm ET)
                        3
                      If it doesn't support man made global warming, there is no funding for it.


                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 2:20 pm ET)
                        3  
                        You know, science is not static. There could have actually been mor eresearch but you are already set in beleiving in your stupid conspiracy to look for it.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:08 am ET)
                        4  
                        Ultimately jose4, much of this comes down to moneyed interests using whatever they can to muddy the waters to prevent what could be a dent in short term profits. It's cowardly and short sighted and it benefits no one but themselves to insist on promoting the least likely and least provable theories, while utterly refusing to entertain the theories and science that appears far more likely and credible.

                        It's the equivalent of acquitting a previously convicted murderer who was spotted at the crime scene, had a matching murder weapon in his house with fingerprints matching ones found at the victim's house, and a personal grudge against the victim in favor of accusing the 94 year old lady who lives next door because there was a plate of cookies she baked near the crime scene. Yes it is technically possible that this earth core theory and magnetic pole shift thing could be the culprit, but all the data suggests something else.

                        This is the reverse Occam's razor method of debate. You'll go out of your way to insist on the least likely or plausible explanation, grasping and cherry picking, while rejecting far more credible theories.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 28, 2011 2:04 pm ET)
                    4  
                    You should probably read your sources before you cite them. "Hence, it has no detectable effect on the earth’s surface temperature and, contrary to a widely held view, cannot generally be detected by airborne or satellite infrared measurements." The Arctic is experiencing temperature deviations of 10-15 degrees farenheit. Geological heat flow doesn't generate enough heat to be detected by infrared satellite imagery. Geez.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:06 pm ET)
                        6
                      Go away nest paw.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 28, 2011 2:20 pm ET)
                        6 1
                        Ha! So you do the usual troll thing and post information that doesn't say what you think it says. Is this projection? Does Jose4 cite sources he hasn't read because he believes that nobody reads this material? There's an interesting psychological dynamic going on here, and I ain't going anywhere, bub.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 2:22 pm ET)
                          5  
                          He does cite sources he doesn't read. He once cited a blog written by a lesbian condemming DADT as support for keeping DADT.
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:09 pm ET)
                        5
                      As Johaely pointed out, that was 40 years ago.

                      I started off by saying that something big is changing in the arctic at the earth's core.

                      You cannot use satellite imagery to see what's going on under the ice.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Old_Benjamin (January 28, 2011 2:11 pm ET)
                        6  
                        I posted it again because you are clearly an idiot.

                        "Hence, it has no detectable effect on the earth's surface temperature"
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:16 pm ET)
                            3
                          Try this one:

                          Your text to link here...


                          Changing Climate: Geothermal Evidence from Permafrost in the Alaskan Arctic
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:17 pm ET)
                              4
                            And we'll see who the idiot is when/if the magnetic pole increases its velocity away from the arctic.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 28, 2011 2:21 pm ET)
                              5  
                              The magnetic pole has shifted around hundreds of times. The earth's seabeds are a pinstriped record of fluctuating polarities. Never in the history of the planet has the temperature shifted this far this fast. The two don't have anything to do with each other.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Jose4 (January 28, 2011 2:41 pm ET)
                                  6
                                And what happened climatically each time the pole did one of its shifts?

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by n'est-ce pas (January 28, 2011 3:30 pm ET)
                                  6  
                                  Apparently you only read the first sentence of my post. "Never in the history of the planet has the temperature shifted this far this fast." There is no evidence of any sort that a shift in the magnetic poles would warm the Arctic up by 10-15 degrees. Come on, man. You just do not want to go down this road. The science is against you.
                                  Report Abuse
                            • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 2:22 pm ET)
                              4  
                              You would still be the idiot.
                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by Old_Benjamin (January 28, 2011 2:32 pm ET)
                            5  
                            Changing Climate: Geothermal Evidence from Permafrost in the Alaskan Arctic


                            Yup, here it is!

                            Temperature profiles measured in permafrost in northernmost Alaska usually have anomalous curvature in the upper 100 meters or so. When analyzed by heat-conduction theory, the profiles indicate a variable but widespread secular warming of the permafrost surface, generally in the range of 2 to 4 Celsius degrees during the last few decades to a century. Although details of the climatic change cannot be resolved with existing data, there is little doubt of its general magnitude and timing; alternative explanations are limited by the fact that heat transfer in cold permafrost is exclusively by conduction. Since models of greenhouse warming predict climatic change will be greatest in the Arctic and might already be in progress, it is prudent to attempt to understand the rapidly changing thermal regime in this region.


                            Case closed! It's the earth's core causing climate change.
                            Report Abuse
      • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 28, 2011 7:39 pm ET)
        1 5
        hahaha I wish your last part was not true. Too bad they are though.

        However, The Global Warming Hoax.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Johaely (January 28, 2011 9:11 pm ET)
          5  
          OMG The World Natural Health Organization, that completely unknown respectable group of quacks with no background on climate! If they said that Global Warming is a hoax IT MUST BE TRUE!
          Report Abuse
          • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:18 am ET)
            4  
            Close call, I'm glad that wealthy interests can throw together fly-by-night think tank organizations to counter real science when it might get in the way of short term profits.

            I mean, we have like...five other habitable planets we aren't using right now, right? No? You mean we might have to act responsibly now that we have the population and technology to seriously manipulate the surface and atmosphere of the earth? Well...I'm sure we can just have the major polluting industries just buy a new earth when this one becomes unable to support our expanding population, there's like an "Earth-mart" somewhere, right? No? Uhm...well then...Look over there, SOCIALISM!!!!
            Report Abuse
    • Author by calibrationist (January 28, 2011 11:38 am ET)
         
      I find it incredible that there are so many ignorant people who actually believe that this "global warming" is directly upon us!
      Yes, global warming does exist, but planetary texts everywhere state this is an entity that will progress over a millenia ....not tomorrow or the next day!
      Use the brains God gave you and read, dudes, read! If you can't read, at least, view the History Channel!
      Report Abuse
    • Author by system317 (January 28, 2011 4:08 pm ET)
         
      I stopped believing in AWG after the push for cap-trade. I just think this is all about money and less about environment.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by MemeMine69 (January 28, 2011 4:54 pm ET)
      2 4
      [b]I can't do this anymore, scaring my kids with DEATH BY CO2. The deniers have won, we exaggerated everything and this is our Iraq War of lies and fear mongering. Let’s be honest with admit the CO2 mistake because fear is not sustainable. I want to be a REAL progressive again, one who challenges an authority that says THE END IS NEAR. So stop dividing progressivism and environmentalism and pull the spear of fear out of MY KIDS BACKS!History is cusing us already for this.b]
      Report Abuse
    • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 28, 2011 7:52 pm ET)
      1 4
      Global Warming?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 8:32 pm ET)
        5 1
        Links to denier sites?

        WTF is that supposed to prove?

        Link to some real science if you want to make a real impression.
        Report Abuse
          • Author by datruthfarmer (January 28, 2011 11:00 pm ET)
            3  
            I am rubber and you are glue; whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks on you.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 28, 2011 8:44 pm ET)
          1 7
          The point, clone, is that a lot of the science has been tampered with to obtain the results they want.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by bilbo_dies (January 28, 2011 8:54 pm ET)
            7 1
            Insulting troll fails again
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 28, 2011 9:17 pm ET)
                9
              Clone gives himself thumbs up. Classic.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:23 am ET)
                6  
                Hey Fox clone nothing clone the clone, your clone clone is getting way too clone, and clone. Clone clones silly, and immature, and even clone. Repeating clone while clone in a clone that would clone one to clone you are a clone.

                P.S
                Clone clone clone clone clone...and calling everyone that makes you look foolish a clone only weakens your clone....I mean argument.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by datruthfarmer (January 28, 2011 11:00 pm ET)
            5  
            Liar, this point has been refuted many times before.
            Report Abuse
    • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 28, 2011 8:09 pm ET)
      1 9
      Climategate?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by project21reps (January 28, 2011 11:01 pm ET)
          10
        In my opinion, MAN MADE GLOBAL WARNING is a scam perpetrated by the progressive big brother lovers, as a means to redistribute wealth. They are abetted by researchers who have a vested interested in promulgating this charade, by virture of the grants they recieve and the positions they hold in academia.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 28, 2011 11:18 pm ET)
          8  
          What a coincidence. Your "opinion" is almost verbatim the "opinion" of Rush Limbaugh and all of the "scientists" on Big Oil payrolls. Uncanny.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 9:18 am ET)
              10
            And your opinion, clone, is the same as Al Gore and all of the "scientists" on the green energy payroll.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 12:44 pm ET)
              7  
              And your opinion, clone


              Projection much?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 1:19 pm ET)
                  7
                Clone gives a link to wikipedia. Probably a page created by another clone to further the clone agenda.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 2:33 pm ET)
                  7  
                  Clone gives a link to wikipedia. Probably a page created by another clone to further the clone agenda.

                  I'm not the biggest Wikipedia fan, given that the content is editable but; you didn't even bother to read the link did you, or maybe it hit too close to home?
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:29 am ET)
                6  
                Remember the "Smurfs"? Little blue guys that lived in mushrooms and used the word "smurf" in place in of every other word?

                Fox News Nothing but truth reminds me of a "smurf", only he's a clone, since he uses the term constantly, and in place of actual meaningful words.

                Since he seems to be full of so much anger and denial, Fox news nothing but truth, I dub thee..."Grouchy Clone".

                Report Abuse
            • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 29, 2011 12:56 pm ET)
              8  
              Exactly, Fox-nothing. I'm with the actual scientists, you're with the people paid to deny the science, and a radio propagandist who thinks he can understand Chinese by phonetically transcribing the sounds he hears.

              Glad we're on the same page regarding being on different pages.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 1:25 pm ET)
                  7
                Hahaha what? You do know that not every scientist believes global warming is man made right?

                Man made global warming. The biggest and most profitable conspiracy theory in history. Thank God they have you clones to keep it alive.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 29, 2011 1:49 pm ET)
                  6  
                  Your logic is almost as interesting as project21's. Let's walk down your little path.

                  The vast majority of experts in a given field agree that Theory A is correct.

                  But, (using your words) "not every" person in the world agrees.

                  This leads you to the conclusion that Theory A is a "conspiracy theory" ? Or did you mean "a conspiracy"?

                  I'd suggest you re-read your comments here, and see if you can spot the problems with your thinking. Good luck.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 2:29 pm ET)
                      7
                    So you know all of the scientists in the world too Andy Kreiss aka clone numero uno? Or did Al Gore just order you clones to believe the "vast majority" of scientists believe in man made global warming?

                    Are you secretly running the world? Because you know a lot of stuff.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 2:44 pm ET)
                      7
                    This is what you refer to as making sense.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 29, 2011 7:40 pm ET)
                      7  
                      If you're to the point of telling me what I think of your links, it's pretty obvious you're just goofing around.

                      For the record, I don't think that article makes sense. You're the one who linked to it.
                      Report Abuse
          • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 12:22 pm ET)
              7
            All I can say is that great minds think alike. Tell me Andy, do you always judge someone's opinion, based not on the opinion itself, but rather, solely on who is expressing the opinion?
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 12:32 pm ET)
              9  
              Using the phrase "great mind" when talking about Limbaugh is like using the phrase "great food" when talking about McDonalds.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 1:03 pm ET)
                  10
                Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by mikehuck1976 (January 29, 2011 1:15 pm ET)
                  9  
                  Well, stick around long enough and projdork will actually refute himself. This is the same guy that when it suited his argument actually stated that it was easy being a black man today because all you had to do was play the race card whenever you wanted something. Of course, the next day, when it suited a new argument, it said that blacks were being hunted down and killed all over America. He cannot really keep his arguments straight. He only knows what Beck and Limbaugh tell him to believe.

                  However, projdork, I would love to hear you explain this conspiracy to us. How and why did the worldwide scientific community, the Pentagon, the CIA, NASA, and many, many others decide to take part in the mass conspiracy. Feel free to cut and paste your prophets' beliefs without attributing credit to them.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 3:04 pm ET)
                      7
                    mikesucks: I guess you don't know the meaning of the word: context. By the way, I never used the words you attribute to me. And are you saying that you believe the pentagon, the cia, Nasa, those with a financial interest, and many many more are above manipulating data to further their agenda? Really?
                    Report Abuse
            • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 29, 2011 1:18 pm ET)
              7  
              You've made one of your typical logical mistakes here, proj.,implying that I judged your opinion solely on who is expressing it.

              I did no such thing. I only noticed that what you call your opinion is exactly the same as many others in the Denial Cult.

              Here are some factors I would use to "judge an opinion";

              ** The Opinion is in disagreement with the scientific consensus

              ** The opinion is held by many with an obvious interest in promoting that "opinion"

              ** The opinion is held by many who have been caught repeatedly lying to support that opinion

              ** The opinion requires a load of unsupported conspiracy theories that don't make any sense, and assumed motives that require a tin foil hat and ignoring the most logical explanations.

              Be careful of falling into this trap again. Several people were trying to help another poster the other day, explaining to him that all of the sources he linked to were corporate-sponsored, non-scientific sites posing as authorities on the subject.

              He interpreted this help, strangely, as "guilt by association" ( his words), which is sort of the same thing you're doing here.

              If this still isn't clear, let me give you another example. Bill O'Reilly recently said that there's no explanation for the tides going in and out, that it must be proof of God.

              Most grade-schoolers could tell him that the gravitational forces of the Sun and the Moon, along with the Earth's rotation, are responsible.

              Now, if you were to post here that you also believe there's no rational explanation for the ebb and flow of the seas, somebody might mention that it's an interesting coincidence that you're saying the same thing as BilldO.

              That wouldn't be "guilt by association", nor "attacking the messenger", just an observation.

              It's noteworthy when two different people arrive at the exact same, wrong conclusion. But did you see what Fox-Nothing tried to do, above, with a false equivalence ? He countered that I was a "clone" because I'm in agreement with real scientists, which he thinks is the same as being in agreement with phony scientists and lying radio propagandists.

              There's nothing remarkable about many different people arriving at the same correct,logical conclusion. What's suspicious is different people arriving at the identical wrong, far-fetched conclusion.

              Hope this helped.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 3:07 pm ET)
                  7
                everything you say I can say about you and your position. By the way, science is not determined by consensus.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 4:31 pm ET)
                  7  
                  By the way, science is not determined by consensus.


                  Yes it is!
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 5:18 pm ET)
                  5  
                  By the way, science is not determined by consensus.

                  Uh, yes it is.

                  Scientific consensus is the collective judgment, position, and opinion of the community of scientists in a particular field of study. Consensus implies general agreement, though not necessarily unanimity. Scientific consensus is not by itself a scientific argument, and it is not part of the scientific method.

                  In other words, until proven wrong, a theory that is accepted as correct, by consensus, is considered to be how things work. (see Theory of Gravity)
                  If further study or data proves the original theory wrong (or faulty) then the consensus changes.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 5:19 pm ET)
                    4  
                    BTW Please excuse the cut and paste from Wikipedia.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 5:30 pm ET)
                        7
                      This clone has a love/hate relationship with wikipedia.

                      Let me finish a prior statement made by him,

                      I'm not the biggest Wikipedia fan, given that the content is editable but; it is were I get all of my information.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 6:29 pm ET)
                        4  
                        Can't "refudiate" my comments, huh?

                        You are such a good "debater".
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 6:52 pm ET)
                          1 4
                          You mean wikipedia's comments.

                          All you did was tell us what a scientific consensus.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 7:05 pm ET)
                              7
                            Scientific consensus is not THE collective judgement and opinion, it is A collective judgement and opinion.

                            A consensus means not everyone, so to refer to it as THE opinion is ignorant.
                            Report Abuse
                  • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 6:23 pm ET)
                      6
                    "Let's be clear: The work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

                    "There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period. . . .

                    "I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way. ."

                    (Michael Crichton,
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 6:37 pm ET)
                      5  
                      What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

                      Well, close. I would say that what made the greatest scientist in history is not that they "broke with consensus" but that they were able to look at the world without letting the general consensus blind them to what they saw.

                      Michael Crichton? Couldn't you find something by Einstein?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 7:46 pm ET)
                          5
                        Why? Are not Crichton's comments sound, and right on point?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 8:28 pm ET)
                          4  
                          If you wanted to argue how breaking concesus is always permisible in science, using an actual scientist like Einstein would have given you a leg to stand on.
                          Report Abuse
                • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 29, 2011 7:42 pm ET)
                  5  
                  everything you say I can say about you and your position.


                  Yes. You certainly can. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if you did. I've seen you say crazier stuff than that.
                  Report Abuse
                • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:46 am ET)
                  6  
                  Science is not determined by wealthy interests who may find the data does not support their model of maximum short term profitability either.

                  No science is determined by "Scientific method", and you should look that up. It's the method by which raw data is collected and experiments are made and then repeated to arrive at a conclusion. They use the process of deductive reasoning to set up the experiments. As more data is collected, more possible explanations are eliminated, and only those conclusions that are sound and repeatable are kept.

                  What the right wing deniers engage in, is called inductive reasoning. The method of starting with a desired outcome, and then keeping only the data deemed favorable to support that desired outcome.

                  Many fringe conspiracy theories of the Glenn Beck/Alex Jones vein are based on inductive reasoning. The entire Birther movement was constructed this way, along with a reversal of Occam's Razor.

                  I'd love to believe what the right wing tells us about climate science, it would be great to feel that we have no impact or responsibility on the atmosphere, temperature, or environment. I suspect that is why these non-scientific theories gain so much traction. They play to our sense of ego and greed, and absolve us of the need to be proactive or hold ourselves, or anyone else responsible for the fate of our planet.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Andy Kreiss (January 30, 2011 2:12 am ET)
                    5  
                    That's a lot of logic and facts there, Coolslaw. I think you're in danger of being called a clone by people who study science under Rush Limbaugh.
                    Report Abuse
      • Author by datruthfarmer (January 28, 2011 11:04 pm ET)
        3  
        Been there. Done that. The tee shirt is in the closet. Dude, quit with the lies and disinformation. The lives of your kids are at stake.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by project21reps (January 28, 2011 11:19 pm ET)
            7
          exactly, the lives of our kids are at stake, and that is exactly why I find it offensive that those progressive big brother lovers and their allies are promoting such nonsense as MAN MADE GLOBAL WARMING in order to further enrich themselves or to gain political power.
          Report Abuse
    • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 9:28 am ET)
        8
      Real Science.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 11:52 am ET)
        7  
        Link to study on midge populations (determined by microscopic analysis of core samples from a lake bottom) over a 6000 year period and how that is used as evidence that CO2 concentrations have negligible effect on global warming. (sounds like a great idea for a senior thesis. Otherwise it is a single data point that does not take into consideration local variablities, comparison to other midge population studies world wide, etc. Some one is stretching to use this as any kind of "proof" about the effect higher concentrations of GHGs and world temps.)

        This study is hosted on a site purporting to "disseminate factual reports and sound commentary on new developments in the world-wide scientific quest to determine the climatic and biological consequences of the ongoing rise in the air's CO2 content."

        The chairman of CO2 Science is Dr. Idso, a former Director of Environmental Science at Peabody Energy, who has a BS and PHD in Geography and a MS in Agronomy.

        (Yup, no conflict of interest there.)
        Report Abuse
        • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 12:59 pm ET)
            8
          Many links where provided to you. No one is denying that climate change is occurring, as you progressives seem to believe. The debate centers around the nature of that change, the cause of that change, and what we as a species can do to reduce the impact of that change. You progressives have attempted to close the debate on the first two items, so that you can implement wealth redistribution, using climate change as your cover. You frame the argument to make it seem as if those who disagree with your agenda are against reducing the impact our species has on the planet. All the while, the leaders of your progressive man made global warming movement leave a daily negative impact on the environment greater than what most would leave in an entire lifetime.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 1:04 pm ET)
              7
            The clones do not understand human language.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by mikehuck1976 (January 29, 2011 1:22 pm ET)
              6  
              Amazing the level of cognitive dissonance it must take for proud dittoheads to call someone else a clone. Actually impressive.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 1:29 pm ET)
              6  
              The clones do not understand human language.

              Well that explains why you can't carry on a logical debate.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 2:32 pm ET)
                  7
                Technically you are unable to carry a logical debate.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 3:37 pm ET)
                  5  
                  Technically you are unable to carry a logical debate.

                  You need to add the proviso "In your humble opinion", since your opinion is not based on fact.

                  You post links, with no comments attached, and call that debating? (sheesh)

                  My biggest problem with people like you is that you seem totally convinced that you are correct and that there can not possibly be any global warming going on, or that man could possibly be at fault if there was.

                  I look at the theory that has been presented, as well as the data used to back it up, and make my decision based on that. Personally, I am still something of a skeptic, since there could be mechanisms at work (that we are unaware of) that play a larger part in global warming than man does.

                  Of course, I don't totally blow off the theory either, without corroborating evidence. Either way, I still believe we should do what we can to minimize our impact on the environment.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 3:56 pm ET)
                      7
                    Do you understand the concept in science that being "very sure" does not constitute as fact? Being 90% sure that CO2 emission is the main cause of global warming leaves a lot of room for error.

                    The link regarding the earth's activity over the past 6,000 years is proof that the climate has been fluctuating long before industrialization came in to play.

                    I look at the theory that has been presented, as well as the data used to back it up, and make my decision based on that. Personally, I am still something of a skeptic, since there could be mechanisms at work (that we are unaware of) that play a larger part in global warming than man does.


                    Like the activity of the Sun? I am not a scientist, but if I had to guess, that big ball of fire 93 million miles away has a profound impact on our climate.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 4:51 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Do you understand the concept in science that being "very sure" does not constitute as fact? Being 90% sure that CO2 emission is the main cause of global warming leaves a lot of room for error.


                      In science being "very sure" is what makes it a scientific fact until proven otherwise. You put 90% as if had a large margin of error. Sciencific discoveries will never be 100% certain. There will always be open space for discovery. 90% is mor ethan good. Using your logic, if somebody told you thta you had 90% chance of winning the lottery, it's still a abd idea since there is a 10% chance of losing.

                      Like the activity of the Sun? I am not a scientist, but if I had to guess, that big ball of fire 93 million miles away has a profound impact on our climate.


                      Whatever scientist who dneies the effect of the Sun on the lcimate is downright ignorant. No climatologist would go on to postulate any point of climate change without taking in consideration the sun. On the other hand, it's a display of extreme ignorance to exclude man's activity in the causes of the increasing global temperatures.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 5:25 pm ET)
                          7
                        How are you going to try and equate science to gambling, clone?

                        You are like all of the people in the 1800's who thought they knew everything there was to know about physics, the difference is they were 100% sure, not 90%. Then this guy name Albert Einstein came along and published his theory of relativity.

                        How come 90% is so convincing to you now?
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 7:34 pm ET)
                          6  
                          I give up. It's hopeless. Explaining quantum physics to a two year old would be far more productive than trying to have a discussion with an idiot like you.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 9:47 pm ET)
                              6
                            Haha to bad you don't know what physics is, clone.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 9:54 pm ET)
                              3  
                              And you do?
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 10:02 pm ET)
                                  4
                                I have taken a physics class before. I only got a B so I wouldn't say I am an expert.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 10:16 pm ET)
                                  2  
                                  I took an AP physics class. I'm certainly not close to an expert, but i understand more than enough.
                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 10:18 pm ET)
                                      4
                                    oooooo AP physics. That's a public school thing right?
                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 10:21 pm ET)
                                      2  
                                      Yeah you know Advance Placement. Essentially a college course. Kinda higher than regular old physics.
                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 10:24 pm ET)
                                          4
                                        oh my mistake. I went to a college preparatory private school, so I guess my regular class was like your AP class.
                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 10:28 pm ET)
                                          3  
                                          ORLY? Then now I know from where your attitude comes from. You are just a spoiled brat. Don't denigrate my education with your petty insults.
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 10:42 pm ET)
                                              4
                                            Haha ok? You were actually the one denigrating my education for being in the "regular" physics as opposed to honors.

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by Johaely (January 29, 2011 10:49 pm ET)
                                              3  
                                              by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 9:47 pm ET)
                                              1 Haha to bad you don't know what physics is, clone.
                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 30, 2011 12:17 am ET)
                                                  4
                                                Explaining quantum physics to a two year old would be far more productive than trying to have a discussion with an idiot like you.


                                                All started by you.
                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by Johaely (January 30, 2011 12:28 am ET)
                                                  3  
                                                  It's called sarcasm, dumbass.
                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 30, 2011 12:43 am ET)
                                                      5
                                                    oh I get it.

                                                    You say something and it is sarcasm.

                                                    I say something and it is denigrating your education.

                                                    I am starting to learn clone I think.
                                                    Report Abuse
                                        • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:51 am ET)
                                          5  
                                          oh my mistake. I went to a college preparatory private school, so I guess my regular class was like your AP class.


                                          Grouchy Clone sounds like an "elitist". We should do as his right wing heroes say, and dismiss anything this "elitist" says as claptrap from a "pinhead" who thinks he's "better then the rest of us".
                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 30, 2011 10:38 am ET)
                                              5
                                            Haha look at you clones always taking things out of context. I said that in response to him thinking he was smarter and better than me just because he took an AP physics class. Also I never said my education made me better than anyone, that seems to be a liberal mindset.

                                            Can you please come up with your own words? Clone has been taken. I know it's awesome, but you need to be original. Originality is a helpful trait in life.
                                            Report Abuse
                    • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 5:34 pm ET)
                      5  
                      Like the activity of the Sun? I am not a scientist, but if I had to guess, that big ball of fire 93 million miles away has a profound impact on our climate.


                      Duh, the earth's thermal heat load is determined by the amount of thermal energy that the molten core gives off, plus the amount of radiant energy received by the sun, minus the amount that radiates outward into the local vacuum. The amount of energy that radiates outward is ameliorated by the insulating blanket of the atmosphere. The composition of the gases in the atmosphere determines how fast the energy radiates outward.

                      In the long run, the earth doesn't care. It will be here even if we manage to kill off every living thing on the planet.

                      What's your plan?
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 5:38 pm ET)
                          7
                        My plan is to live my life and not give a damn about how much CO2 I give off.

                        I should probably make it clear that I do not care that the Earth's climate is changing, I find it to be natural, not man made. So I am not going to let a bogus scientific theory to control my life.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by congero6189599 (January 29, 2011 6:18 pm ET)
                          6  
                          Your as dumb as your tag.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 6:43 pm ET)
                          6  
                          I should probably make it clear that I do not care that the Earth's climate is changing, I find it to be natural, not man made.

                          Why not just say "I've got mine and I don't care about anyone else." (Future generations included)

                          My plan is to live my life and not give a damn about how much CO2 I give off.

                          Ah yes, it is all about me, me, me.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 7:02 pm ET)
                              6
                            Why not just say "I've got mine and I don't care about anyone else." (Future generations included)


                            How about you PROVE to me that my actions are going to have a profound impact on Earth in the future. All of you clones are so easily manipulated, it is unreal. None of you have any idea/proof whether or not our way of life will have a profound impact on the future of Earth.

                            All these scientists have done is point out the globally accepted fact that the Earth is warming, and slapped a tag on it that says "caused by human CO2 emissions." They do not even mention the fact that the earth has gone through warming and cooling periods throughout it's history.

                            They take one warming period, blame it on us, and all of you clones jump on board.

                            If you want to go back and live and the Dark Ages then go ahead.

                            I am going to keep living in the 21st century.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 8:17 pm ET)
                              6  
                              I can't PROVE that smoking will give you cancer.
                              So, as long as you aren't smoking around me, go ahead and light up.

                              All of you clones are so easily manipulated, it is unreal.

                              To me that sounds like you are talking about yourself. Per your name: "Fox News - Nothing But Truth" they would never steer you wrong would they.

                              If you want to go back and live and the Dark Ages then go ahead.

                              Who said anything about living in the Dark Ages?
                              Do you think the only choice you have is to continue living like we do or go back to a strictly agrarian society?
                              I always thought there was a middle ground.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 8:42 pm ET)
                                  5
                                I can't PROVE that smoking will give you cancer.


                                Scientist can though. I haven't seen any scientist PROVE that global warming is man made, we already know it is natural, but they have yet to support their man made theory.

                                To me that sounds like you are talking about yourself. Per your name: "Fox News - Nothing But Truth" they would never steer you wrong would they.


                                The name is a joke, made purely out of enjoyment hearing all of you clones refer to it when I call you clones. I do not believe or agree with everything on Fox News, I personally hate Sean Hannity because he is a stuck up prick. However, Fox gives way more sides of the story than these other media outlets that sprinkle liberal clone powder on everything.

                                I bet none of you have even heard about the 34 million dollars that has gone missing from the Global Fund. They do not cover that kind of stuff on MSNBC.

                                As for the Dark Ages, the real question is, did you really think I meant that literally? All of you clones talk about this green energy like it is going to be able to sustain life. How about before you throw our current way of life in the trash, you come up with something at least as efficient.

                                We are going to need an energy source a little more efficient than steam was.
                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by bilbo_dies (January 29, 2011 9:48 pm ET)
                                  5  
                                  Backtracking already?

                                  I personally hate Sean Hannity because he is a stuck up prick.

                                  Won't return your calls, huh?

                                  All of you clones talk about this green energy like it is going to be able to sustain life.

                                  Funny, I don't remember mentioning green energy.

                                  We are going to need an energy source a little more efficient than steam was.

                                  Cold Fusion?

                                  Fox gives way more sides of the story than these other media outlets that sprinkle liberal clone powder on everything.

                                  Oh god, you are funny!

                                  How about before you throw our current way of life in the trash, you come up with something at least as efficient.

                                  90% of the heat energy, from gasoline, is wasted in the current internal combustion engine. You set the bar kind of low, don't you?


                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Fox News - Nothing But Truth (January 29, 2011 10:06 pm ET)
                                      5
                                    I am not sure how I backtracked? I do not like Hannity because he is stuck up and doesn't let other people talk, like Chris Matthews.

                                    Ok? Are you going to explain how cold fusion is going to work? Or should I just look it up on wikipedia?
                                    Report Abuse
                              • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 12:59 am ET)
                                5  
                                Of course he can't fathom anything but full steam ahead or living in the dark ages, that's the dichotomous thinking trap that most right wing media consumers fall into.

                                That's how that "Annointed one" crap that they always repeat works in their minds alone. You can make a twelve page post criticizing President Obama on policy points, but if you aren't claiming he's an evil, socialist, Kenyan, whatever...you can ONLY be a worshiper.

                                So much of their worldview is predicated on this. Absolutes make a person very defensive, and ultimately limit their ability to see reason.
                                Report Abuse
            • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 3:08 pm ET)
                5
              They understand. They just ignore human language if it doesn't comport to their pov.
              Report Abuse
            • Author by congero6189599 (January 29, 2011 6:48 pm ET)
              3  
              What is the human language?
              Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck1976 (January 29, 2011 1:21 pm ET)
            5  
            In my opinion, MAN MADE GLOBAL WARNING is a scam perpetrated by the progressive big brother lovers, as a means to redistribute wealth. - projdork

            "No one is denying that climate change is occurring, as you progressives seem to believe." - projdork

            You actually make this too easy, dork.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by project21reps (January 29, 2011 3:10 pm ET)
              2 5
              Exactly, mikesucks: You don't seem to understand the difference between man made global warming and climate change. You conflate the two. I guess nuance is not your strong suit, is it, chief.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by CoolSlaw (January 30, 2011 1:07 am ET)
                6 1
                I get it! Man-made global warming is that liberal junk that socialists like Al Gore say to make the poor widdle corporate giants into big bad guys...but if it's not man made, then it's fine, and we should do absolutely nothing and not even monitor changes.

                Actually, looks like project21reps got caught up in his own dichotomous thinking and cognitive dissonance anti-logic loop. If he were a villainous star trek robot, he would have exploded by now.
                Report Abuse
    • Author by Poole1Dan (January 30, 2011 12:05 pm ET)
      2 7
      MMFA Defends Eco-Terrorism; Fails Miserably
      Report Abuse