About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

CBS' Mark Knoller Whitewashes Bush From 2009 Deficit

August 23, 2011 12:05 am ET — 156 Comments

CBS News White House correspondent Mark Knoller whitewashed former President Bush's role in creating $1.2 trillion in deficit for the 2009 fiscal year, instead blaming President Obama for every penny of debt increase since "the day Mr. Obama took office." But the Congressional Budget Office had already projected $1.2 trillion in deficit before Obama took office, based entirely on Bush's actions and economic conditions.

Knoller Blamed Obama For Every Penny Of Debt Since "The Day Mr. Obama Took Office"

CBS' Knoller Claimed National Debt "Increased $4 Trillion On President Obama's Watch." From Mark Knoller's August 22 article:

The latest posting by the Treasury Department shows the national debt has now increased $4 trillion on President Obama's watch.

The debt was $10.626 trillion on the day Mr. Obama took office. The latest calculation from Treasury shows the debt has now hit $14.639 trillion.

It's the most rapid increase in the debt under any U.S. president.

The national debt increased $4.9 trillion during the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush. The debt now is rising at a pace to surpass that amount during Mr. Obama's four-year term. [CBS News, 8/22/11]

But CBO Had Already Projected A $1.2 Trillion Deficit For 2009 Before Obama Took Office

CBO: $1.2 Trillion Projection Based On Legislation Bush Passed Before Obama's Inauguration. In a budget report released on January 7, 2009 -- before Obama took office -- CBO stated: "The ongoing turmoil in the housing and financial markets has taken a major toll on the federal budget. CBO currently projects that the deficit this year will total $1.2 trillion, or 8.3 percent of GDP." CBO further stated:

A drop in tax revenues and increased federal spending (much of it related to the government's actions to address the crisis in the housing and financial markets) both contribute to the robust growth in this year's deficit. Compared with receipts last year, collections from corporate income taxes are anticipated to decline by 27 percent and individual income taxes by 8 percent; in normal economic conditions, they would both grow by several percentage points. In addition, the estimated deficit includes outlays of more than $180 billion to reflect the cost of transactions of the TARP. [Congressional Budget Office, January 2009; Associated Press, 1/7/09

Knoller Reported That Obama Blames Bush And The Recession

Knoller: "Obama Blames Policies Inherited From His Predecessor's Administration" And "The Recession." Knoller wrote that Obama "blames policies inherited from his predecessor's administration for the soaring debt." Knoller further reported:

[Obama] goes on to blame the recession, and its resulting decrease in tax revenue on businesses, for making fewer sales, and more employees being laid off. He says the recession also resulted in more government spending due to increased unemployment insurance payments, subsidies to farms and funding of infrastructure programs that were part of his stimulus program. [CBS News, 8/22/11]

Independent Analyses Agree That "Bush-Era" Policies Are Largely To Blame For Deficit

NY Times: "Nine Straight Years Of Deficits" Are Largely The Result Of "The Bush-Era Tax Cuts, War Spending In Iraq And Afghanistan, And Recessions." From a July 23 New York Times article:

With President Obama and Republican leaders calling for cutting the budget by trillions over the next 10 years, it is worth asking how we got here -- from healthy surpluses at the end of the Clinton era, and the promise of future surpluses, to nine straight years of deficits, including the $1.3 trillion shortfall in 2010. The answer is largely the Bush-era tax cuts, war spending in Iraq and Afghanistan, and recessions.

[...]

In 2001, President George W. Bush inherited a surplus, with projections by the Congressional Budget Office for ever-increasing surpluses, assuming continuation of the good economy and President Bill Clinton's policies. But every year starting in 2002, the budget fell into deficit. In January 2009, just before President Obama took office, the budget office projected a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2009 and deficits in subsequent years, based on continuing Mr. Bush's policies and the effects of recession. Mr. Obama's policies in 2009 and 2010, including the stimulus package, added to the deficits in those years but are largely temporary.

The second graph shows that under Mr. Bush, tax cuts and war spending were the biggest policy drivers of the swing from projected surpluses to deficits from 2002 to 2009. Budget estimates that didn't foresee the recessions in 2001 and in 2008 and 2009 also contributed to deficits. Mr. Obama's policies, taken out to 2017, add to deficits, but not by nearly as much. [The New York Times, 7/23/11]

AP "Fact Check": Rise In Federal Debt "Comes Not From Political Decisions" But From "Deep Recession." From an August 20 AP article:

While spending's share of the GDP might be at a post-World War II high, tax revenues have fallen to 14.4 percent of the index, the lowest since 1950.

This disparity between what comes in and what goes out plays into the Republican argument about runaway spending.

But it also reflects the mathematical reality that during recessions, tax revenues go down sharply because people and companies make less money and so pay less in taxes. Federal spending goes up, even before stimulus programs, with an increasing demand for government help from food stamps and unemployment compensation and other safety-net programs.

At the same time, the negative economic growth associated with recessions lowers the GDP number on the bottom of the equation, further boosting the ratio of spending to GDP.

Since 1970, federal spending has averaged just over 21 percent of GDP while tax revenues have averaged over 19 percent.

The last time since World War II that federal spending exceeded 23 percent of GDP was in 1982 and 1983, when it rose to 23.1 percent and 23.5 percent, respectively, during what was then called the worst recession since the Great Depression. A Republican, Ronald Reagan, was president, and he was hardly anyone's idea of a tax-and-spend liberal.

Federal spending is even higher now as a percentage of GDP, but not by much - just between 1 and 2 percentage points. That reflects the fact that the most recent recession was far deeper than the 1981-82 downturn, which lasted 16 months.

Much of the present large gap between tax revenues and federal spending comes not from political decisions but from what happens to a nation's finances during any deep recession, economists suggest. [Associated Press, 8/20/11]

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by MiddleAmerica (August 23, 2011 1:18 am ET)
      1 22
      Bush and Obama are to blame for the deficit. Fortunately for the GOP, Bush will not be running for office.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 1:34 am ET)
        17 1
        Actually, just Bush, since Obama was forced to continue Bush's economic policies while attempting to garner a drop of republican support that he should have known he was never going to get.

        I mean, when the republicans blocked their own bills because Obama approved of them, that should have been a clue.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MiddleAmerica (August 23, 2011 5:00 am ET)
          2 19
          Obama wasn't forced to do anything, he was elected to lead, to change not continue Bush policies.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by galmud (August 23, 2011 7:33 am ET)
            15 2
            It's kinda hard to lead and try to clean up the mess in the porcelain store left after one elephant, when there's another angry elephant stomping around in there, crushing every cup and plate he sees
            Report Abuse
            • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 9:52 am ET)
              11 1
              It's kinda hard to lead and try to clean up the mess in the porcelain store left after one elephant, when there's another angry elephant stomping around in there, crushing every cup and plate he sees


              MiddleAmerica and the rest of the FOXPAC zombie trolls seem to be of the opinion that Obama should be more like Bush was and run roughshod over the democratic system by governing by executive order... That is, until he actually governs by executive order (I.E. the hold on deportations) then he's just another dictator wannabe.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by kdyson (August 24, 2011 12:38 am ET)
                   
                So true...but the system...if you play by the rules is such that getting anything done is virtually impossible...for example, a congressman from California today created a situation in the H of R's where the House is not in recess and so recess appointments will not go ahead...and the stop Obama at any cost war continues...Obama must stop pandering to these people...they are not offering compromise ...only obstacles
                Report Abuse
              • Author by NotSure8 (August 24, 2011 12:51 pm ET)
                1  
                Don't buy into the right wing talking points. There is no "hold on deportations". They are simply changing the prioritization.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by captaincrunch (August 23, 2011 10:11 am ET)
            12 2
            That's bullcrap and you know it. Altering the economy is like turning a battleship and since Bush didn't bother to steer the economy for 8 years...it is taking a LONG time to fix the Bush fiscal disaster (try this on for size: Bush is the Herbert Hoover of this age)!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by grmce (August 24, 2011 4:41 am ET)
              1 1
              That is a vicious libel of Herbert Hoover. Admittedly Hoover did take the contractionary advice of (Secretary of The Treasury) Andrew Mellon but he didn't blow the economy in the first place - like with two unfunded wars, unfunded tax cuts and that weird, dopey pharmaceutical thingy that I still can't make sense of.

              Compared to G.W.Bush, Herbert Hoover was Maynard Keynes and J.K.Galbraith rolled into one (but then I've got an empty bucket under my back verandah that makes more intelligent analysis of the economy, national and international, than G.W.Bush and almost his entire cabinet).
              Report Abuse
          • Author by Obwon (August 24, 2011 9:32 am ET)
               
            Obama was elected to TRY to fix what Bush had ruined!
            There was no guarantee that he could do it, but we
            knew we needed to change the leadership, if any attempt
            at correction was going to be made.

            Bush said lower taxes would create jobs; It didn't!
            Bush said deregulation would get gov't out of the way of
            doing business, since businesses would not harm themselves:
            Businesses did harm themselves, while CEO's walked away
            with even bigger tax reduced bundles, causing more unemployment.
            Bush said he'd build a democratic Iraq; He didn't!
            Bush said he'd get Osama; He didn't!
            On and on, Bush did everything wrong and we're now paying
            for his disastrous administration.

            Now, while Obama tries to work to repair the damage, he
            faces Republican obstructionism designed to make him fail,
            even at the risk of taking the nation down with him. So,
            there's no guarantee that he will succeed, but then, we
            knew that, he was only elected to try!
            Report Abuse
          • Author by Blasthoff (August 24, 2011 5:24 pm ET)
               
            Horse Hockey! You seem to have a lot of opinion but apparently have no knowledge or understanding of the topic.

            Why not just get ahead of the game and post an opinion on one of next weeks topics today. It would apply just as well.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 9:42 am ET)
          1 12
          Obama was forced to continue Bush's economic policies
          I don't think a better indictment of Obama's inability to lead can be found than that statement.

          It speaks volumes to what a poor leader Obama is when he is "forced" to continue policies that he claims wrecked the economy when he is not only President, but had huge Congressional majorities for two years.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by eweston8542983 (August 23, 2011 10:15 am ET)
            9 2
            yep he could had cloture any time he demanded it from the senate.

            No downside for you here. If he doesn't act like a dictator then he's a poor leader. If he does then impeachment (so long anticipated) proceedings comence.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by foghornleghorn (August 23, 2011 11:49 am ET)
            9 1
            but had huge Congressional majorities for two years.

            Why do you prefer telling lies?

            Oh, that's right, I forgot - because you're a liar.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 11:50 am ET)
              1 8
              Is that not true?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by foghornleghorn (August 23, 2011 11:55 am ET)
                8 1
                You're an idiot, or you don't understand what "huge majorities" means. Which is it?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by bilbo_dies (August 23, 2011 11:57 am ET)
                7  
                Please define what you consider to be "huge Congressional majorities".
                Report Abuse
                • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 12:20 pm ET)
                  2 8
                  256-178 in the House; 59-41 in the Senate. Those are "huge Congressinoal majorities".

                  In the 111th Congress the Democrats had the largest Senate majority in 30+ years and the largest House majority in 16 years.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jarossiter (August 23, 2011 12:24 pm ET)
                    10 1
                    How many to overide the filibuster?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 12:38 pm ET)
                      8  
                      60, I'm sure James knows that... So do senate republicans, which is why they blocked the seating of Al Franken for over 7 months
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by galmud (August 23, 2011 2:04 pm ET)
                      5 1
                      41 Republicans in the Senate = Super minority
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:30 pm ET)
                      3 10
                      60. Are you trying to make the point that Obama can't possibly get anything done without a filibuster-proof Senate majority?? All you are doing is proving my point about how Obama does not have the ability to lead. Obama couldn't peel off one, not ONE, Republican vote in the Senate for <insert bill here>? Not Collins, not Snowe, not Brown??? By way of comparison, Reagan accomplished a lot with a Democratic House for his entire term and fewer than 60 Republicans in the Senate (not even a majority for a few years). Clinton accomplished plenty without 60 Democrats in the Senate his first two years and with a Republican House his last six. Bush got his first tax cut with a Democratic controlled Senate (after Jim Jeffords switched parties), and his second without 60 Senate Republicans. Leaders lead and persuade and accomplish things in the face of opposition. Obama is simply not a leader.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 2:56 pm ET)
                        11 2
                        We're making the very valid point that it's been demonstrably very hard for Obama and Congressional Democrats to get much done. The evidence is very clear and undeniable. If you can't acknowledge reality then you have the issue, not us.

                        And yes, previous Republican presidents didn't have the same issues - and that's because previous opposition parties didn't behave the same way that the Republicans are behaving now!

                        It has nothing to do with Obama not being a leader. It has everything to do with the unfair and unique way that Republicans have been acting.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 4:20 pm ET)
                          1 9
                          So your argument is that Obama would be a leader if only he had easier opposition??

                          I think you are making my point for me.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 7:17 pm ET)
                            3 1
                            Obama is a great leader. That doesn't mean that he can win against all odds. That's your strawman argument, "right ON". It's because without virulent opposition he would have done such a good job that the Republicans had to unleash holy he11 against him!
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 3:01 pm ET)
                        7 2
                        We are making the point that when the GOP is in charge Democrats act like adults and still try to get the work done and when the GOP is not in charge they act like petulant children that will burn the house down unless they get their way. They have shown they care nothing about the country and only about their own power. This point was pretty obvious. I am sorry it had to be spelled out for you as if you were three years old. Your guys sabotaged the political process and you are so STUPID you think Obama should be blamed for THEIR sabotage. Just pathetic
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 4:24 pm ET)
                            7
                          I wasn't assigning blame, I was just making the point that Obama is not a leader -- which is kind of an important quality to have in a president.


                          when the GOP is not in charge they act like petulant children that will burn the house down unless they get their way. They have shown they care nothing about the country and only about their own power.
                          I will repeat what I wrote in response to a similar post below: That perfectly sums up the problems with politics right there. It's not enough that others may have a different view on how best to improve the economy. No, those with an opposing view must not be debated on the merits of their ideas, but instead must have their motives questioned.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 10:24 pm ET)
                            3 1
                            007

                            The FACTS are what they are. We have SEEN this happening. THAT is what is wrong with politics today. Reality is not dependent on YOU aknowledging it to be reality. You can pretend to deny reality all you want. Reality wont change. I certainly wont appologize for not being as STUPID and as comitted to being brainwashed as you.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 4:59 pm ET)
                          8  
                          Who was the last republican president to balance the budget or leave a surplus?
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by highliter (August 23, 2011 5:27 pm ET)
                            1 8
                            First off Congress balances budgets not the president. Second the surplus is a myth. It was wiped out by the 2001 recession 9-11 and Katrina. So when is the last democratic congress to balance a budget?
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by The_Cat (August 23, 2011 6:04 pm ET)
                              5  
                              The surplus Bush inherited HE HIMSELF wiped out with poorly conceived tax cuts.
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 10:25 pm ET)
                              4 1
                              hi

                              First off you are a LIAR. Second you are a brainwashed moron just spewing what you were told to think. Third you are just pathetic, you do get that dont you?
                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 8:28 am ET)
                              2  
                              "First off Congress balances budgets not the president. Second the surplus is a myth. It was wiped out by the 2001 recession 9-11 and Katrina. So when is the last democratic congress to balance a budget? "

                              Congress does balance budgets but they have to have 60 votes in the Senate if they don't have the Presidents approval. They also had some money to balance it with, something the same "fiscally conservative" Republicans chose to do away with the first chance they got.

                              The surplus is not a myth, You can deny it all you want, it won't make it true. I suggest you look at numbers from the Treasury, not the Heritage Foundation. The debt held pretty steady from mid '99 till the end of '01 almost 2 years. That means we weren't borrowing.

                              The debt started climbing steadily in Oct '01, the start of Bushes first budget, when the tax cuts kicked in and when he went to war on the credit card. The recession had very little to do with it because the housing bubble was just getting started. The fact that it started when Republicans were running the show is probably just a coincidence.
                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by Obwon (August 24, 2011 9:55 am ET)
                                1  
                                Hardly any coincidence, you do remember the corruption that attended the early Bush years: Jack Abramoff and the Indian Casino rip offs, Tom Delay and his "Permanent Republican Majority" illegally funded with laundered money, while Republican aides were moving back and fourth between K street and the Hill effortlessly and quickly too boot!

                                Deregulation meant that banks could now own exchanges, and they took full advantage of that, to set up trading in debt backed securities, that Wall street exchanges constantly refused to handle. With this bold and new access to money, the ability to sell off mortgage loans, and not have to carry them to term, it's hardly a wonder that banks took advantage of it greatly, once the regulation averse Bush kept the regulators in check!

                                Obwon
                                Report Abuse
                      • Author by Blasthoff (August 24, 2011 5:50 pm ET)
                           
                        BS! All you have managed to explain is how the current batch of Republicans in Congress have banded together as obstructionists and in typical fashion, you want to pass blame on to Obama.

                        Do you REALLY want to pretend obstruction hasn't been taking place these last couple of years? Please, don't try to pass on some crap about it being "typical" politics, it isn't.
                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 1:11 pm ET)
                    6 2
                    As I said 10 minutes before you posted this.....

                    He's pretending that one can ignore the reality of what the Senate looked like and how it is run and how the Republicans took advantage of that, and simply concentrate on what the House looked like.


                    There was never a huge majority in the Senate in recent years. It didn't happen. Saying that it did happen in a lie!
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by bilbo_dies (August 23, 2011 1:41 pm ET)
                    4 1
                    256-178 in the House; 59-41 in the Senate. Those are "huge Congressinoal majorities".

                    But; not quite the "super majority" you would need to over ride a fillibuster, is that correct?


                    Big difference between "largest majority in 30+ years" and a "large enough majority to override any opposition that exists to legislation that is presented before it".
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:32 pm ET)
                      3 6
                      Big difference between "largest majority in 30+ years" and a "large enough majority to override any opposition that exists to legislation that is presented before it".
                      So your argument is, Obama can only lead when he has no opposition whatsoever?

                      I rest my case...
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 2:58 pm ET)
                        8  
                        It's not Obama's fault that the Republicans are acting so obstructionist.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 4:26 pm ET)
                          1 7
                          I'll repeat what I wrote in a previous post:

                          Leaders lead and persuade and accomplish things in the face of opposition. Obama is clearly not a leader.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 7:18 pm ET)
                            4 1
                            You're so poorly informed that you think that a leader can make changes in the face of any opposition, and that's just not true. It's a dishonest smear, and typical of the strawman arguments that "right ON" is so famous for.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by didi (August 23, 2011 7:20 pm ET)
                            4  
                            "Leaders lead and persuade and accomplish things in the face of opposition. Obama is clearly not a leader."

                            Do you know how the Bush tax cuts passed congress in 2002 & 3?

                            They were passed by reconciliation. That's why they were limited to 8 years. Do you have any idea what kind of stink the GOP would have raised if the Democratic congress passed ANYTHING through reconciliation?

                            Do you even know what it is? Look it up!
                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by bilbo_dies (August 23, 2011 4:52 pm ET)
                        7  
                        I like how you ignored part of my post, which was a direct question to you.

                        But; not quite the "super majority" you would need to over ride a fillibuster, is that correct?

                        I've got a lot of issues with Obama but; ignoring the fact that the Repubs have gone out of their way to stymie any legislation that Obama has suggested or supported is just disingenuous.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 5:58 pm ET)
                          2 3
                          I like how you ignored part of my post, which was a direct question to you.


                          But; not quite the "super majority" you would need to over ride a fillibuster, is that correct?
                          I wasn't ignoring it, I thought it was rhetorical. Yes, a 59-41 majority is not enough to override a filibuster.

                          So your argument is still that Obama cannot lead unless he has no opposition whatsoever. There must be no possible way for a Republican to do anything in opposition to Obama. Then, and only then, can Obama lead.

                          My point proven, the prosecution rests.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 7:25 pm ET)
                            5 1
                            Obama can't lead given horrific opposition that's unique in Congressional history. He can't make the changes he'd like to make given the Republicans behavior, such offensive behavior that we've never seen the like of.

                            That doesn't make him a bad leader. That makes the Republicans bad, and reasonable people know this.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 8:47 am ET)
                            3 1
                            "So your argument is still that Obama cannot lead unless he has no opposition whatsoever. There must be no possible way for a Republican to do anything in opposition to Obama. Then, and only then, can Obama lead."

                            No dip-sh!t, that isn't his argument. 41 oppositions not "a opposition". Just proves what I said about you yesterday, you can't read.

                            Lead what? Republicans that have publicly vowed to block anything that he can claim as an accomplishment? He!! they even block their own sh!t if he backs it. You haven't proven your point to anybody but yourself, because nobody but you knows what your point is.
                            Report Abuse
                  • Author by Entei_06_MR (August 23, 2011 2:58 pm ET)
                       
                    Actually the Dems had 60 seats in the senate. That's how they got obama care passed in the senate around x-mas 2009.

                    Things changed when Kennedy died and Scott Brown won his seat. Didn't change too much because they where still able to pass Dodd/Frank.
                    Report Abuse
              • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 12:09 pm ET)
                6 2
                Remember, this is the word parsing "right ON" using one of his multiple screen names.

                He's pretending that one can ignore the reality of what the Senate looked like and how it is run and how the Republicans took advantage of that, and simply concentrate on what the House looked like.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by foghornleghorn (August 23, 2011 12:13 pm ET)
                  4 2
                  Oops, I forgot. JamesB and James Bond and tommy/rightON are all the same word-parsing troll. My bad.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by riverdog (August 23, 2011 3:40 pm ET)
                    3 5
                    Oops, I forgot. JamesB and James Bond and tommy/rightON are all the same word-parsing troll. My bad....joni

                    good god could you give it a rest. you seem like a intelligent person with your posts but this crazy obsession with conspiracies (glenn beck) is really quite stupid. how bout responding to the posts and stop the petty crap.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 7:29 pm ET)
                      4 3
                      No, I won't stop providing the info that informs people about the dishonest behavior of one poster who uses multiple screen names.

                      There's undeniable evidence that this one poster has used multiple screen names, including "tommy" and "right ON" and "right ON2" and "jamesB" and "CenterRight" and "pongotwhistleton" and "southernlady" and "southerngal".

                      It's not a conspiracy theory. It's fact.

                      And it's pretty much a reasonable conclusion to assert that you and "bludog1" are also his clones. If you don't like reading about how someone is being dishonest, scold the person who's being dishonest, not the person who's pointing it out. Go to the root of the problem if it really concerns you. Going after the person who is simply pointing out the problem tells us that you don't like the problem behavior being pointed out!
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by highlyunlikely (August 23, 2011 8:05 pm ET)
                        4 1
                        joni: did you notice on I forgot which thread JamesB. mocked the accusation that he was also JamesBond, and - what do you know - JamesBond suddenly appears to join in the fun by posting directly under JamesBond. JamesBond, who comments sparsely, happened to notice he was mentioned and there he is, piling on! Not summoned by JamesB. but there by convenient coincidence. In order to deny they're one in the same while ironically confirming that they are.

                        Did you know the FBI's policy is to be very skeptical of coincidence? It's called being a good detective.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by riverdog (August 23, 2011 8:12 pm ET)
                        1 5
                        It's not a conspiracy theory. It's fact...jonithephoney.

                        since you are wrong about me. no fact honey, just hooey.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 24, 2011 12:34 am ET)
                          4 1
                          It's not a conspiracy theory, but is in fact a known, undeniable fact that

                          this one poster has used multiple screen names, including "tommy" and "right ON" and "right ON2" and "jamesB" and "CenterRight" and "pongotwhistleton" and "southernlady" and "southerngal".


                          So, contrary to your assertion, it is not "hooey,", and I believe there's plenty of evidence that you're another clone, just like we uncovered "southernlady" as a clone, just like we exposed "jamesB" as a clone, etc, etc.

                          You aren't fooling anyone.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by ilovedoughnuts (August 24, 2011 5:48 am ET)
                        2 3
                        "There's undeniable evidence that this one poster has used multiple screen names, including "tommy" and "right ON" and "right ON2" and "jamesB" and "CenterRight" and "pongotwhistleton" and "southernlady" and "southerngal".

                        It's not a conspiracy theory. It's fact."

                        Could you please provide "undeniable evidence" of these "facts"? Thanks.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by ilovedoughnuts (August 24, 2011 8:06 am ET)
                          2 2
                          Nevermind. Cancel my request. Who cares? Why on earth spend even one second worrying about who anyone is on an anonymous comment site? Think about what you are doing! What difference does it make?

                          If you keep focusing on something this trivial it is NOT healthy.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by NotSure8 (August 24, 2011 1:26 pm ET)
                            1  
                            The difference it makes is that it makes it look like there are more people on this site that agree with their position than there actually are.
                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by highlyunlikely (August 24, 2011 2:25 pm ET)
                            2  
                            If you focus on something this worthy of discussing, it is neither trivial nor unhealthy.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 24, 2011 4:27 pm ET)
                          3  
                          No, I will not, again and again, provide links to the multiple times that this one person has been exposed as multiple posters. If you want to find those links on your own, feel free - it shouldn't be that difficult.

                          And why worry about the credibility of the posters and why expose one of them as extremely and serially dishonest to the core?

                          Well, if you don't know the answer to that one, then you'll have to figure that out on your own too!
                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by Bronwyn (August 23, 2011 10:36 pm ET)
                      2 2
                      Riverdog, are jonimacaroni and foghornleghorn the same person? Just asking?
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 12:23 pm ET)
                  3 4
                  If I may paraphrase Joe Biden: every post by Joni consists of a noun, a verb, and rightON.

                  Seriously, Joni. I am not rightON. I do not know why you think I am. Your obession with rightON cannot be healthy. You might want to consider professional help.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 1:14 pm ET)
                    5 2
                    Yeah, "right ON/jamesB/JamesBond/tommy" - people here can't read my posts and know that they consist of much more than mentions of "right ON".

                    If you think that you're really going to make anyone believe that nonsense, you're more crazy than we already knew you were.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:34 pm ET)
                      2 4
                      people here can't read my posts and know that they consist of much more than mentions of "right ON".
                      Exactly.
                      Report Abuse
          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 12:07 pm ET)
            5 2
            He never had "huge Congressional majorities." That's a rightwing lie.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 12:24 pm ET)
              1 4
              To repeat my prior post:

              256-178 in the House; 59-41 in the Senate. Those are "huge Congressinoal majorities".

              In the 111th Congress the Democrats had the largest Senate majority in 30+ years and the largest House majority in 16 years.
              Report Abuse
              • Author by jarossiter (August 23, 2011 12:25 pm ET)
                6 1
                To repeat my prior post:

                How many to override a filibuster?
                Report Abuse
              • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 1:15 pm ET)
                5 1
                He never had huge Congressional majorities.

                As I said 10 minutes before you posted this.....

                He's pretending that one can ignore the reality of what the Senate looked like and how it is run and how the Republicans took advantage of that, and simply concentrate on what the House looked like.

                There was never a huge majority in the Senate in recent years. It didn't happen. Saying that it did happen in a lie!
                Report Abuse
                • Author by riverdog (August 23, 2011 5:01 pm ET)
                  1 4
                  yes obama had huge congressional majorities

                  yes the republicans fillibustered.

                  yes obama could have done a better job. so could we all.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 7:55 pm ET)
                    3 2
                    No, Obama didn't ever have huge Congressional majorities.

                    And remember, you're only supposed to refuse to use punctuation when you're posting as "jamesB" - he's the one that fails to capitalize like he should. He was trying to differentiate himself from "right ON" and that was his schtick. You forget which screen name you're using, and sometimes capitalize words and others times you don't. And then sometimes your spelling is atrocious and other times it's perfect.

                    When you copy some other screen name's schtick because you forget who you're logged in as, that's a "tell".
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by highlyunlikely (August 23, 2011 8:10 pm ET)
                      3 1
                      Excellent detective work. Now "tangled web you weave" is running through my brain for some reason...
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by ilovedoughnuts (August 24, 2011 6:16 am ET)
                    3
                  "There was never a huge majority in the Senate in recent years. It didn't happen. Saying that it did happen in a lie!"

                  Recently must be more then 30 years ago or more then, right? Funny. Most folks think recently is more like a few years max. In fact I've NEVER heard anyone use "recently" to describe past tense time as more then 30 years. Wait am minute, I guess many of you don't think 59-41 is a huge majority? If this isn't, what would be a huge majority? 65-35? 70-30? What?

                  And how many times have I read on these MMfA comment pages it is Congress who controls budgets (correctly) when any mention is made of Obama's spending - but now we hear "What you're doing is shifting the goalposts when you drag Congress into it." by The Cat below.

                  Some of you liberals are really funny in your attempts to cover for Obama. Actually, ridiculous is a better word. It is really rather pathetic to read.


                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 9:15 am ET)
                    1  
                    I've got a question donut. How come all you guys are saying "huge majorities" now? What happened to "super majority"?

                    If you think "huge majority" makes you look less stupid than "super majority", think again.

                    And categorizing everyone that doesn't buy your ridiculous views, isn't helping you look smarter neither.
                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 24, 2011 4:38 pm ET)
                    2  
                    No, 59-41 is not a huge majority.

                    A huge majority would be a majority that enabled the majority to make huge differences over simple majorities, and 59-41 doesn't enable that to happen when you have obstructionist Republicans blocking simple stuff!

                    What's pathetic is your attempt to cover up for the poster who originally claimed that Democrats ever had huge majorities in recent memory.

                    And yeah, the simpleminded argument that Congress controls the budget ignores the very clear and powerful role that the President has. I can't help it if some people like to make fatally flawed arguments.
                    Report Abuse
          • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 4:51 pm ET)
            7  
            jb: Since you are sooo bright can you tell me why every corporate owned republican voted NO for every bill put forth to create jobs and help improve the economy for the past 3 years? How can things improve with republicans that are bent on the distruction of the middle class and America along with them? Where are the Jobs bills that they promised? All they talk about is tax cuts for their owners that will create jobs. They have had these cuts in place for 10 years and unemployment is at 9+%. The description of an Idiot is someone that does the same thing over and over again and expects a different result. 10 years of tax cuts for the wealthy with the same result, no jobs, kind of shows you that the owned ones are Idiots.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 6:04 pm ET)
                3
              I've said this in this thread a couple times already, but it bears repeating in response to your post:

              "That perfectly sums up the problems with politics right there. It's not enough that others may have a different view on how best to improve the economy. No, those with an opposing view must not be debated on the merits of their ideas, but instead must have their motives questioned. "

              Report Abuse
              • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 24, 2011 12:39 am ET)
                3  
                Republican politicians and those who support the current batch should have their motives questioned, since they're rejecting their own previously-held positions!
                Report Abuse
              • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 9:35 am ET)
                1  
                JP says the Republican solution for creating jobs, tax cuts, have been in place for 10 years and they haven't created any jobs. JP then describes an idiot as "someone that does the same thing over and over again and expects a different result".

                DoubleNaught replies that the problem with politics is questioning the motives of idiots who insist tax cuts will work "this time".

                That's comedy.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by mikehuck76 (August 23, 2011 6:43 pm ET)
            2  
            No one familiar with your work here, James, would be suprised to see you lying about "huge" majorities in the Congress. Did you ever apologize or even acknowledge when you were caught lying last time?

            http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201108160003#1441135
            Report Abuse
        • Author by Obwon (August 24, 2011 9:21 am ET)
             
          Yeah... And now we learn this:
          Bush gave out 1.2 trillion dollars in secret bailout loans, which brings the total bailout under Bush to 2 trillion and counting!
          Read more:

          http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/653948/bank_of_america_and_citigroup%2C_rolling_in_cash%2C_also_got_trillions_in_%22secret_loans%22_from_the_fed/

          Obwon
          Report Abuse
      • Author by highlyunlikely (August 23, 2011 1:49 am ET)
        11 2
        ah, boulder, you're trying out the "one the one hand this, on the other, that" formulation. Also known as "enough blame to go around." Unfortunately, it's rarely true.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MiddleAmerica (August 23, 2011 5:10 am ET)
          2 12
          The far-left say its all Bush's fault, the far-right say its all Obama's fault - I say you're both idiots, there's plenty of blame to go around including both parties in Congress.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 4:06 am ET)
        11 1
        MiddleMoron

        You are pathetic. ONLY Bush is responsible for the 2009 deficit, which is the subject of discussion, since Obama took office IN 2009 and the 09 deficit was set by the 08 budget. Remember that Obamas first deficit was SMALLER than Bush's last deficit. Fortunatly for the entire WORLD Bush will never be president again
        Report Abuse
        • Author by MiddleAmerica (August 23, 2011 5:07 am ET)
          2 14
          MMfA said 2009, it's not clear what period Knoller was addressing - I believe Bush and Obama are responsible for our CURRENT problem.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 5:22 am ET)
            14  
            I am sorry you have such reading comprehension problems. When he used the numbers he omitted the 09 debt from Bushs numbers and added them to Obamas. That is dishonest. That is misinformation. Why did this need to be explained to you? If you have this much problem understanding simple english that really isnt our problem
            Report Abuse
              • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 5:34 am ET)
                12 1
                I was addressing the TOPIC. Imagine that. I was also addressing your LIES. You said it was not clear what period Knoller was addressing. YES it was. He addressed the period of Bush and then Obamas presidency and his numbers were WRONG.

                Keep telling us what you WISH is going to happen. Keep in mind the GOP has LOST the popular vote in four out of the last FIVE presidential elections. Looks like they are catching on to the rights constant lying and disasterous policies
                Report Abuse
              • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 5:12 pm ET)
                5  
                ma: Do you ever tell the truth about anything? Or do you have a mental disorder that prevents you from doing so?
                Report Abuse
          • Author by danielsangeo (August 23, 2011 5:22 am ET)
            12 1
            Obama is deficit spending to fix the problem created by Bush and the Republicans. Yes, he's adding to the debt but he has to, in order to fix the problem.

            Conservatives and Republicans, meanwhile, are blocking or stifling every single effort by the Democrats and Obama to fix the economy. Again, they're not interested in fixing the economy. They want to bring down Obama.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by MiddleAmerica (August 23, 2011 5:25 am ET)
              1 17
              I'm looking forward for Obama's vacation to end so he can tell us his plan.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by danielsangeo (August 23, 2011 5:27 am ET)
                15  
                At least he has a plan. Republicans, of course, will be immediately against it. There's already static and they haven't even read the plan yet.

                If that isn't evidence that Republicans don't care about the country and just want to bring Obama down, I don't know what is.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 9:56 am ET)
                    10
                  If that isn't evidence that Republicans don't care about the country and just want to bring Obama down, I don't know what is.
                  That perfectly sums up the problems with politics right there. It's not enough that others may have a different view on how best to improve the economy. No, those with an opposing view must not be debated on the merits of their ideas, but instead must have their motives questioned.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 10:02 am ET)
                    8  
                    No, those with an opposing view must not be debated on the merits of their ideas, but instead must have their motives questioned.


                    The health care bill was originally the republican counter proposal by the republicans to Clintons health care overhaul.
                    The "Dream Act"
                    "Cap and Trade"

                    Nearly every policy Obama proposed has been a republican idea.

                    The republicans have been voting down and/or killing their own legislation when Obama say's he's for it.

                    And let's not forget McConnel's words:
                    "Our main goal is to defeat Obama"
                    Or Michelle Bachmann who said she hopes the economy will get worse so she'll have a better chance of being elected.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 11:33 am ET)
                        8
                      And let's not forget McConnel's words:
                      "Our main goal is to defeat Obama"
                      This quote is a favorite of the left, but of course it is taken completely out of context. The full context from PolitiFact:

                      It's based on a comment Sen. Mitch McConnelll made in an interview with the National Journal's Major Garrett on Oct. 29, 2010: "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

                      So McConnelll said it. But we think some further context is in order.

                      McConnell said he had been studying the history of presidents who suffered big defeats in midterm elections in Congress, but then won re-election in two years anyway. McConnelll said he doesn't want Republicans to repeat the same mistakes that allowed that to happen.

                      "After 1994, the public had the impression we Republicans overpromised and underdelivered," McConnell said. "We suffered from some degree of hubris and acted as if the president was irrelevant and we would roll over him. By the summer of 1995, he was already on the way to being re-elected, and we were hanging on for our lives."

                      McConnell said Republicans need to treat the midterm elections as "the first step in retaking the government."

                      It was in that context that McConnell said, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

                      Garrett asked if that meant "endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?"

                      Said McConnell, "If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him."

                      In other words, in the very same interview, McConnell said that he'd be willing to work with Obama if Obama is "willing to meet us halfway." That's called compromise. And that sounds very much in the spirit of Obama's call to "seek out common ground." (emphasis mine)
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by foghornleghorn (August 23, 2011 11:52 am ET)
                        8  
                        McConnell said that he'd be willing to work with Obama if Obama is "willing to meet us halfway

                        There is no compromising with the teabaggers/Rethugs. Their idea of compromising is getting 100% of what they want. They prefer the politics of extortion and blackmail. And you're an apologist for them.

                        Sucks to be you.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by NG_Officer (August 23, 2011 11:53 am ET)
                          5  
                          oops, you beat me to it.
                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 12:11 pm ET)
                          7  
                          Yeah, they were getting 85% of what they wanted in the recent debt ceiling negotiations, and that wasn't sufficient - the idea that the Republicans are willing to compromise with someone who'll meet them halfway is laughably ridiculous.
                          Report Abuse
                      • Author by NG_Officer (August 23, 2011 11:52 am ET)
                        6  
                        In other words, in the very same interview, McConnell said that he'd be willing to work with Obama if Obama is "willing to meet us halfway." That's called compromise. And that sounds very much in the spirit of Obama's call to "seek out common ground

                        Obama has been going way past halfway, but the Party of No doesn't want compromise. Their idea of compromise is getting everything they demand.
                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 12:35 pm ET)
                        5  
                        In other words, in the very same interview, McConnell said that he'd be willing to work with Obama if Obama is "willing to meet us halfway." That's called compromise. And that sounds very much in the spirit of Obama's call to "seek out common ground."


                        And in the debt ceiling debates proved this statement to be a blatant lie
                        Report Abuse
                • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 5:21 pm ET)
                  6  
                  The republicans have already stated that Obams plan is dead on arrival. This is weeks before they know what the plan is! But this in their mind is negotiation!
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 9:56 am ET)
                7  
                I'm looking forward for Obama's vacation to end so he can tell us his plan.


                It doesn't matter what his plan is, the republicans are going to be against it. I mean, the "tax-cutters" are looking to end the payroll tax holiday because they claim it didn't work and it's costing revenue.

                Think on that if you can; though to FOXPAC teabagger zombies, I'm sure it makes perfect sense.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 5:28 pm ET)
                  4  
                  Isen't it strange that the ONE tax cut they want to do away with is the one that puts money in the WORKERS POCKET and not into their owners bank account!
                  Report Abuse
              • Author by captaincrunch (August 23, 2011 10:13 am ET)
                6  
                At least he will have a plan...the BUSH plan...sign every spending bill....

                BUSH wasn't forced to do anything, he was elected, by Republicans, to SIGN SPENDING BILLS.
                Report Abuse
            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 10:00 am ET)
              2 11
              Obama is deficit spending to fix the problem created by Bush and the Republicans. Yes, he's adding to the debt but he has to, in order to fix the problem.
              To be accurate you should say, "Obama is deficit spending to fix the problem created by Bush and the DEMOCRATS." Democrats controlled Congress for the final two years of the Bush presidency when the deficit exploded.

              But besides that, what you seem to be saying is that Obama must go further into debt in order to fix the debt problem. Does that make sense to you?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 10:06 am ET)
                10 1
                Democrats controlled Congress for the final two years of the Bush presidency when the deficit exploded...And the cost of Bush's two wars were put on the books for the first time.



                Damn those democrats for exposing the real financial cost of the wars... Around the same time they started legislation to try to stop them.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by jjcomet514 (August 23, 2011 10:24 am ET)
                  6 1
                  James apparently has found a magic way to erase the deficit - simplt don't put ANYTHING in the budget. Just like Chimpy did with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, keep it all off the boks. That way, we'll be in the black 4EVAR!

                  JamesBond and his ilk are so stupid they make Bush look intelligent by comparison...
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by jjcomet514 (August 23, 2011 10:27 am ET)
                    6 1
                    Also, I love the way JamesBond edited his post to remove the one hint to truth it contained:

                    "And the cost of Bush's two wars were put on the books for the first time."

                    Dishonest AND stupid. James, you've hit the trifecta is you're also ugly.
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 11:47 am ET)
                      1 5
                      I didn't edit my post. Thomas added "...And the cost of Bush's two wars were put on the books for the first time." in what he passed off as being a direct quote from my post. Read my post and you will see what he did. It is Thomas who is the dishonest one.

                      I don't want to paint every liberal with the same brush, but it is that kind of dishonest stuff that gives the rest of you a bad name.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 12:15 pm ET)
                        5 2
                        You quoted Thomas, but cropped his comment to leave off the context.

                        That's typical - because you're "right ON/tommy/jamesB" simply using an alternative screen name and playing the same old games.

                        Cropping comments without the context is inappropriate, and it's what you do all the time, no matter what screen name you're using.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 12:30 pm ET)
                          1 4
                          Another typical Joni post: noun, verb, and rightON.

                          Where did I crop a comment from Thomas to leave off the context?

                          Thomas added things to what I said and passed it off as a direct quote. It doesn't get any more dishonest than that.
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 1:20 pm ET)
                            5 1
                            No, he didn't do that.

                            And someone who uses multiple screen names, often posting with 2 or more at the same time, doesn't get to claim that anyone else is dishonest, "right ON/tommy/jamesB/pongo/CenterRight/southernlady/southerngal/JamesBond".

                            While I understand that you'd like to be able to start with a clean slate, you can't. You're being fairly tagged with your previous reputation. It wouldn't be fair to this site for you to get away with simply creating a new screen name in order to escape responsibility for your behavior.
                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:37 pm ET)
                              1 5
                              Once again: noun, verb, and rightON.

                              right ON/tommy/jamesB/pongo/CenterRight/southernlady/southerngal
                              I'm not any of those people. What makes you think I am? You never answer that question.

                              And you never answered this question either: Where did I crop a comment from Thomas to leave off the context?

                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:50 pm ET)
                              1 4
                              No, he didn't (adde things to what I said and passed it off as a direct quote.
                              He absolutely did! Now you've made yourself look foolish. Just read above and you will see where Thomas added a sentence to what I wrote and passed it off as a direct quote from me. It doesn't get any more blatantly dishonest than that.
                              Report Abuse
                  • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 11:43 am ET)
                      6
                    Ah, the ol' 'Bush kept the wars off the books' canard. Another favorite of the left.

                    Bush did keep the wars out of the budget proposals he sent to Congress, presumably because he considered the war spending to be temporary and not an ongoing government expediture (which, as we know it has clearly not been). You can criticize Bush for not including that spending in his budget proposals, particularily after it was evident that the war spending was going to be anything but temporary. He rightly deserves criticism for that. But that said, the spending was still real. It still shows up in the federal ledger. It still shows up in the deficits and resulting debt. It isn't hidden. The deficit and debt from the Bush years isn't lower just because Bush didn't include war spending in his budget proposals. Surely you don't believe that is the case, do you?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jarossiter (August 23, 2011 12:30 pm ET)
                      6  
                      It still shows up in the deficits and resulting debt


                      It doesn't show up in teh budget deficits, it goes directly to the debt
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:46 pm ET)
                          5
                        It doesn't show up in teh budget deficits, it goes directly to the debt
                        And what is the debt?: The accumulation of deficits.
                        Report Abuse
                    • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 12:48 pm ET)
                      6  
                      Ah, the ol' 'Bush kept the wars off the books' canard. Another favorite of the left


                      Ah being stupid another favorite tactic of the right. Apparantly you do not know what the word canard means.

                      a : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report b : a groundless rumor or belief


                      It canot be a canard if it is true and a valid argument or a deserved criticism.

                      Actually yes. The deficit was lower because he kept those wars off the books. Apparantly you do not understand how the deficit is figured either.
                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 2:44 pm ET)
                          4
                        The deficit was lower because he kept those wars off the books.
                        You can't hide the deficit! You can show a lower PROJECTED deficit by not including the war costs. As I said, that is something for which Bush rightly deserved criticism. But the actual deficit cannot be hidden. That is the canard that is implicit in the "Bush kept the wars off the books" statement. Perhaps canard is a poor choice of a word, but the point remains theh same.

                        The deficits in the Bush years are what they are. Take a look at the debt at the beginning of the Bush years, add all the deficits from the Bush years, and you get the debt at the end of the Bush years. Nothing is hidden.
                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by jarossiter (August 23, 2011 3:19 pm ET)
                          5  
                          If that is true, how did the debt go from 5 trillion to 11 trillion when the deficit was reported as:

                          2002 157.8 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2003 374 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2004 413 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2005 319 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2006 248 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2007 162 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2008 455 Billion Dollar Deficit
                          2009 1416 Billion Dollar Deficit

                          About 2 trillion is missing
                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mikehuck76 (August 23, 2011 6:48 pm ET)
                            5  
                            Correct, jarossiter. Do not expect honesty from James, though. He is a proven liar with a lack of shame.
                            Report Abuse
                        • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 3:29 pm ET)
                          5  
                          Perhaps canard is a poor choice of a word, but the point remains theh same


                          No actually this is what you said

                          Ah, the ol' 'Bush kept the wars off the books' canard. Another favorite of the left


                          The POINT of that statement was that Bush keeping the wars off the books was a canard was a left favorite. Since it was NOT a canard there was no point at ALL in that statement. The statement itself is simply false.

                          Report Abuse
                    • Author by highlyunlikely (August 23, 2011 4:13 pm ET)
                      5  
                      a "favorite" because it's true - and damning.
                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 10:27 am ET)
                      1  
                      "Bush did keep the wars out of the budget proposals he sent to Congress, presumably because he considered the war spending to be temporary and not an ongoing government expediture (which, as we know it has clearly not been)."

                      You can "presume" he thought it was "temporary" all you want, but that excuse wouldn't hold up with most folks after say, 2 years.
                      Report Abuse
                • Author by JamesBond (August 23, 2011 11:50 am ET)
                    6
                  You are being blatantly dishonest by adding things I did not say to what you have attributed as a direct quote from me.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by ThomasJH268 (August 23, 2011 12:32 pm ET)
                    6  
                    You are being blatantly dishonest by adding things I did not say to what you have attributed as a direct quote from me.


                    Well I'm auditioning to be a newscaster on FOX and I thought I'd practice here... oh wait evidence actually backs up what I added so I guess I'm not going to get the job
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 5:37 pm ET)
                      4  
                      Tom: You have put jb in his place. Now he is wetting his pants trying to show that he's not the lier that he is. It' really fun to watch him squirm.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 10:10 am ET)
                1  
                "To be accurate you should say, "Obama is deficit spending to fix the problem created by Bush and the DEMOCRATS." Democrats controlled Congress for the final two years of the Bush presidency when the deficit exploded."

                To be accurate, 2007 is when the glorious "surge" took place. Remember that? Right after the elections?

                To be accurate, 2007 spending was Republican spending.

                To be accurate, Democrats were only in charge of spending the last year of bushes reign.

                To be accurate, the deficit didn't "explode", it had been right in front of you for 6 years.

                "But besides that, what you seem to be saying is that Obama must go further into debt in order to fix the debt problem. Does that make sense to you? "

                No that doesn't make sense to me, but I read the whole post and the problem he's talking about is the economy not jobs.

                sheesh
                Report Abuse
              • Author by NotSure8 (August 24, 2011 1:51 pm ET)
                   
                But besides that, what you seem to be saying is that Obama must go further into debt in order to fix the debt problem. Does that make sense to you?

                The "problem created by Bush" is not the deficit. It's the crappy economy. It is those on the right who are claiming the deficit is a problem.

                Funny thing though, if you get people back to work in good paying jobs, they will be able to pay taxes, and therefore will help ease the "debt problem". It's all connected, but the teabaggers have decided to put the cart before the horse by claiming the debt to be the "real" problem that needs to be fixed first. Sadly, by fixing this manufactured problem, they will make the real problem worse and it will hurt the ability to fix their manufactured problem.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by riverdog (August 23, 2011 3:46 pm ET)
            3 1
            I believe Bush and Obama are responsible for our CURRENT problem.

            i agree but not in equal amounts. bush/repub congress 85%, obama/dem congress 15%. thats only if you believe only polititions are to blame when it is really was wall street/bankers/regulators/greenspan
            Report Abuse
            • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 8:00 pm ET)
              4 2
              Thanks for outing yourself by doing a great impersonation of "right ON's" famous "false equivalency" argument.

              Obama did the right thing by spending the money he's spent - in fact, he should have spent more money than he did, either in the first stimulus or the second. At times, deficit spending is the absolute best thing that can be done.
              Report Abuse
      • Author by galmud (August 23, 2011 7:47 am ET)
        12 1
        True in a way but the difference is: When Bush took office there was a surplus and the economic future looked bright. 8 years of deficits, two huge tax-cuts and two extremely expensive wars later the economy was in free-fall hemorrhaging jobs. And rather than worrying about the debt and deficit Obama and the Democrats put in place emergency measure to stop the bleeding. And it worked. Yes the debt increased a lot but they were left with no other choice

        But now after House Republicans played chicken politics with the debt ceiling and Obama caved to their austerity demands, the country and world economy risks sinking into yet another deep recession
        Report Abuse
        • Author by captaincrunch (August 23, 2011 10:16 am ET)
          5  
          Don't forget the super expensive Medicare Part D!

          Has anyone else noticed that none of the Bush apologists have even attempted to claim that part of the deficit was Hurricane Katrina support? That's how little Bush cared....he gave tax breaks to the rich and didn't bother to spend (much) to fix New Orleans!
          Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (August 23, 2011 5:45 pm ET)
            5
          That surplus vanished after the March 2001 recession, 9-11 and Katrina.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (August 23, 2011 5:57 pm ET)
            6  
            Um, no. That surplus vanished with Bush's poorly thought out tax cuts. 9-11, Katrina, two illegal wars, the Medicare Part D gift to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, and the recession just made it worse.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 10:27 pm ET)
            2 1
            hi

            It disappeared after the TAX CUT. You never were any good at math were you?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by cripto9t709 (August 24, 2011 10:36 am ET)
            1  
            No, that surplus vanished the day bushes first budget started, Oct.1 2001. The debt didn't start growing until October. I'm guessing you pulled March out of your @ss because that's when a very small recession started, but the debt numbers don't back up your hand full of crap.
            Report Abuse
      • Author by The_Cat (August 23, 2011 9:18 am ET)
        12 1
        Actually, of the $14.5 trillion we are in debt, and we're talking debt not deficit in reality, $12 trillion was spent by Republican presidents. So, this massive debt is mostly the responsibility of the Republicans, who are the profligate spenders in our government, not the Democrats as everyone generally assumes.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by bootyprof (August 23, 2011 11:21 am ET)
          6 1
          I agree that GOP Presidents are also profligate spenders as exemplified by Reagan Era expenditures and GW Bush. The real difference is that GOP Presidents also push for tax cuts and revenue decreases, and that COMBINATION is what causes massive debt!

          For instance, We got into two full-scale wars and passed a massive senior prescription drug bill... while... CUTTING TAXES?!?!?! Usually when you go to war an assist seniors you ask more from the revenue side, somehow not under GOP economics.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Entei_06_MR (August 23, 2011 2:50 pm ET)
               
            I seem to remember when Reagan submitted budgets to congress, the Democrat-controlled House was declared them “dead on arrival”.

            When was the last time a President submitted a budget to congress. Congress said Mr President you're asking for too much, this is what we would like too cut?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by JP (August 23, 2011 5:46 pm ET)
            4 1
            The republican plan since ronnie ray gun is to make the United States a third world country so their corporate owners don't have to ship jobs overseas. They will use the peasents that they are creating here and save on shipping costs. Also why do the republican insist that corporations get a tax break for every job they ship overseas? Could this be the reason they won't put forth a jobs bill?
            Report Abuse
        • Author by highliter (August 23, 2011 5:43 pm ET)
          2 5
          How much of that debt is under DEM congress, you know the people who actually wright the budgeet.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by The_Cat (August 23, 2011 5:54 pm ET)
            4  
            Doesn't matter, highliter. Obama is being blamed for a deficit run up under Republican presidents, most notably Reagan and Dumbya's 16 years.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by highliter (August 23, 2011 6:02 pm ET)
              1 4
              So the people who are responsible for writing the budget bear no responsibility?
              Report Abuse
              • Author by The_Cat (August 23, 2011 7:07 pm ET)
                7  
                What you're doing is shifting the goalposts when you drag Congress into it. The media, specifically Fox Propaganda and now CBS' Mark Knoller, are blaming Obama for the debt run up by Bush. Since the argument is crafted around blaming the current occupant of the White House, it seems best in the interests of fairness when rebutting that argument to point out which side was in the White House when most of the debt was run up.

                Besides, it's more than disingenuous to say, "Well, but Reagan didn't run up the deficit, because Democrats had control of Congress," just as an example.
                Report Abuse
          • Author by vysotsky (August 23, 2011 8:40 pm ET)
            5  
            How many beers does it take to write, "wright the budgeet" at 5:43pm ET?
            Report Abuse
          • Author by kabniel (August 23, 2011 10:28 pm ET)
            3 1
            hi WRIGHT the budget? I am sorry you are too stupid to be taken seriously
            Report Abuse
      • Author by cjmsr56 (August 23, 2011 1:38 pm ET)
        5  
        Read the column again, specifically:

        AP "Fact Check": Rise In Federal Debt "Comes Not From Political Decisions" But From "Deep Recession."

        Only one of those presidents was in office when the recession began.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by NiceguyEddie (August 23, 2011 5:33 pm ET)
        7  
        Bush handed Obama a HUGE deifit and a $#!tty economy. Obama added VERY LITTLE to that deficit, stopped teh economic hemoraging and had us well on the road to recovery until the Right realized it and started pushing for austerity measure.

        You are either a fool or a liar.

        And the Republicans are traitors who have put their party's interests ahead of their country's and their constituency's. (Unless you're just going to admit that their constituency consists only of corporations and thevery wealthy.)

        ------------------------------
        IMHO
        UTOPIA
        Report Abuse
    • Author by jonimacaroni1 (August 23, 2011 12:05 pm ET)
      7 1
      "Increased $4 Trillion On President Obama's Watch."

      On his watch? How is it that it's his watch when it's Bush's budget?
      Report Abuse
      • Author by NotSure8 (August 24, 2011 2:03 pm ET)
           
        It is still possible for him to watch something that he couldn't control. I'm surprised they don't use that terminology to claim the entire period he was senator too, since he had a chance to look over those budgets too.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by tubino (August 23, 2011 12:27 pm ET)
         
      Obama did not run on a platform to immediately end both of Bush's wars. Even if he had, and then had actually withdrawn all troops immediately (which would have generated immediate calls for impeachment), it STILL would have not stopped the cost of the wars immediately! Withdrawal, medical care for vets, etc. all cost money. In other words it was IMPOSSIBLE for Obama (or any president) to reverse the enormous deficits.

      And a big chunk of the enormous deficits is due to reduced revenue. In a recession you can't change that situation.

      Are conservatives really so dumb they don't understand that?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by denke5862 (August 23, 2011 8:02 pm ET)
         
      I wonder if the rep will ever admitt to the trillons of dollars both war has cost this country and the deficit....when will they see that Obama couldnt just stop the war, or stop paying the military personals.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by kdyson (August 24, 2011 12:33 am ET)
         
      The answer is to tax the rich...and put enough money into the system through "New deal" type projects and begin to rebuild the economy through trickle up economic policy...oh and stop listening to idiots on TV who want to blame the current president for the collapse of the economy...you may blame him for being pretzel who bends over backward to compromise...but you may not blame him for the results of Bush era economic policy...that belongs firmly in the court of Mr Greenspan and his "unfettered free market" through his idolisation of Ayn Rand...talk about pure fiction....
      Report Abuse