UPDATED: CNN Contributor On Marines Urinating On Dead Bodies: "Supposed To Be A Scandal"? "I'd Drop Trou And Do It Too"
On her radio show, CNN contributor and Big Journalism editor Dana Loesch cheered on an Internet video reportedly showing U.S. Marines urinating on what appear to be dead Afghans, saying she would "drop trou and do it too." The video has been widely condemned by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, U.S. military commanders, foreign policy experts and others as depicting conduct that "does not reflect our values" and may endanger Afghanistan peace talks.
CNN's Loesch Defends Video Of Marines Reportedly Urinating On Dead Taliban
Secretaries Of Defense And State, Military Commanders Condemn Tape As "Inconsistent With Our Values"
Conduct Will Be Investigated For Possible Violations Of U.S. And International Law
CNN National Security Experts Have Condemned Tape
CNN's Loesch Joined By Pamela Geller In Defending Marines
CNN's Loesch Defends Video Of Marines Apparently Urinating On Dead Taliban
Video Posted Online Shows Marines Urinating On Bodies Of What Appears To Be Dead Afghans. From a January 12 CNN.com article:
The video shows four men dressed in Marine combat gear urinating on what appeared to be the dead bodies of three men on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower."
It was not clear who shot or posted the 39-second video or where, though a U.S. official said it was a "reasonable conclusion" it was filmed in Afghanistan. [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
Loesch: "I'd Drop Trou And Do It Too." From the January 12 edition of St. Louis-based KFTK's The Dana Show:
(h/t St. Louis Activist Hub and Twitter user @NicoleGenette)
LOESCH: All right, we got some cool points to get into, and then we are going to get some of your calls in as well. It's 'cause I've had a lot of caffeine. It's snowing here, folks. Cool points, we play audio and we award out points based upon its level of heinousness or awesomeness. All right, play audio sound bite two. And we're, I'm sure, going to be talking about this in the second hour as well.
Marines were -- there's a -- now, we have a bunch of progressives that are talking smack about our military because there were Marines caught urinating on corpses -- Taliban corpses. Listen:
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER [audio clip]: The U.S. Military is investigating a video showing what appears to be troops urinating on the dead bodies of Taliban fighters in Afghanistan. The footage of what seems to be U.S. Marines has been uploaded to several sites including video sharing site YouTube. The film could be another blow for America after previous scandals like the abuses at Iraq's Abu Ghraib --
LOESCH: OK, stop this right here. Stop this right here.
Can someone explain to me if there's supposed to be a scandal that someone pees on the corpse of a Taliban fighter? Someone who was -- as part of an organization murdered over 3,000Americans? I'd drop trou and do it, too. That's me, though. I want a million cool points for these guys. Is that harsh to say?
Come on, people. This is a war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cool points.
LOESCH: What do you think this is? What do people think this is? I am totally not politically correct, I told you this. What -- do you think that we're going to sit down and have tea?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's nothing compared to what happened in the prison in Iraq. That's different, completely different from when this --
LOESCH: Completely different story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Completely different.
LOESCH: Yeah. Completely different story. So they urinated on the corpse of a dead Taliban member, a dead terrorist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And why did they film it?
LOESCH: They urinated on a -- I don't know why. I don't get that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
LOESCH: I don't get that. But, sorry, that -- I don't -- do I have a problem with that as a citizen of the United States? No, I don't. Sorry, I don't. So, moving on. There's the end of that controversy right there. [The Dana Show, 1/12/12]
Loesch: "They're Dead Terrorists. I Could Care Less." From the January 12 edition of St. Louis-based KFTK's The Dana Show:
LOESCH: My whole entire point is that these individuals -- like they're using this example as an issue to wage against our military and our war -- or, no our military and our soldiers, period -- to make our military look like a bunch of murderers and a bunch of bad people. Look what -- no, no, no, no, no. That's not going to be used as an example to make our military look bad. I mean, this is -- that's what it is.
They're saying, Oh, look, this is our military. We've told you before how they're uneducated, and stupid, and everything else, you've heard callers call into this show that say, oh, the reason they go in the military is because they can't get a job anywhere else. It's infuriating. It's insulting. And I'm not going to let that be used as an excuse. I mean, that's just -- and we can agree to disagree on it. They're dead terrorists. I could care less.
They are dead terrorists. These are people who have -- are part of a group who murdered over 3,000 Americans, some of them children, some of them expectant mothers. I will not show courtesy. So, you know, throw them over the cliff into the ocean. I don't care. But I don't think that these soldiers, these Marines, who are on video doing this, the military can handle it how the military wants to handle it.
But I'm not going to join into the chorus of going after these individuals and using them as -- to paint the military as bad and all that.
These Taliban have done more to the United States than this video, and people are trying to act as though somehow what terrorism has done to this country is equal to any offense that could be caused from the video. That is stupid. I'm not even going to bother giving you more in-depth analysis other than to say it's stupid. [The Dana Show, 1/12/12]
Loesch Responds To Criticism: I Was "Defending" Marines From "Overly-Dramatic Hysteria," "Using Absurdity To Highlight Absurdity." From a January 13 BigJournalism.com blog post:
Yesterday on my radio show I discussed the topic of the Marines videotaping themselves urinating on dead Taliban fighters. The usual mob of progressive haters started campaigning on Twitter and complaining to CNN. [...]
There is a difference in advocating for the Marines to break the law, which I didn't do, and defending them from overly-dramatic hysteria. I was using absurdity to highlight absurdity. It's absurd to desecrate corpses but it's not wrong to hate terrorists who are trying to kill our troops-and us. And I'm not in uniform-so I am free to express what a lot of Americans feel about the controversy, even if it makes some pony-tailed academics feel uncomfortable.
The progressive left chose to include CNN in their attack because they don't like that the network-any network-features conservative voices and have been throwing everything at the wall to get me removed since the very beginning.
My entire point of the past two days was to highlight the absurd reaction from militant troop-bashers to these Marines. In my Twitter timeline yesterday progressives called our military "killers, kids, barbaric trash, murderers ..." The only time soldiers are celebrated by the left is when they engage in protests like OWS. The rest of the time they're demonized. They get the red carpet rolled out for them, too. [BigJournalism.com, 1/13/12]
Secretaries Of Defense And State, Military Commanders Condemn Tape As "Inconsistent With Our Values"
Secretary Of Defense Panetta: Conduct "Inappropriate," "I Condemn It In The Strongest Possible Terms." From a January 12 CNN.com article:
"I have seen the footage, and I find the behavior depicted in it utterly deplorable," U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said in a statement. "I condemn it in the strongest possible terms."
Panetta said he has ordered the Marine Corps and International Security Assistance Force Commander Gen. John Allen "to immediately and fully investigate the incident."
"This conduct is entirely inappropriate for members of the United States military and does not reflect the standards of values our armed forces are sworn to uphold," Panetta's statement said. "Those found to have engaged in such conduct will be held accountable to the fullest extent." [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
Sec. Panetta: Video Could Endanger Peace Talks With Taliban. In a January 13 article, the Associated Press reported:
Asked about possible implications for peace talks, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. remained strongly committed to supporting Afghan efforts.
Panetta, however, said the incident could endanger the talks.
"The danger is that this kind of video can be misused in many ways to undermine what we are trying to do in Afghanistan and the possibility of reconciliation," Panetta said at Fort Bliss, Texas, adding it's important for the U.S. to move quickly to "send a clear signal to the world that the U.S. will not tolerate this kind of behavior and that is not what the U.S. is all about." [Associated Press, 1/13/12]
Secretary Of State Clinton: Behavior "Absolutely Inconsistent With American Values."Asked about the video during a January 12 press conference, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said:
Well, Jill, first I want to express my total dismay at the story concerning our Marines, who I have the highest respect and admiration for. But I share completely the views expressed by Secretary Panetta earlier today. I join him in condemning the deplorable behavior that is reflected in this video. It is absolutely inconsistent with American values, with the standards of behavior that we expect from our military personnel and the vast, vast military personnel, particularly our Marines, hold themselves to. So I know Secretary Panetta has ordered a complete investigation of this incident. Anyone - anyone - found to have participated or known about it, having engaged in such conduct, must be held fully accountable. [Remarks with Algerian Foreign Minister Mourad Medelci, 1/12/12, via state.gov]
Joint Chiefs Chairman Army Gen. Dempsey: "Actions Like Those ... Serve To Erode The Reputation Of Our Joint Force." In a January 13 article, the Associated Press reported:
The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, said he was deeply disturbed by the video and worried that its effects would spread beyond just the Marine Corps.
"Actions like those are not only illegal but are contrary to the values of a professional military and serve to erode the reputation of our joint force," Dempsey said. [Associated Press, 1/13/12]
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Amos: Conduct "Wholly Inconsistent With" Marine Corp's "High Standards Of Conduct." CNN.com reported: "Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos said in a statement the behavior is 'wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history.'" [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
International Security Assistance Force Spokesman Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson: Actions "Grossly Against All The Moral Values That The Coalition Forces Are Standing For." As reported by CNN.com:
Lt. Gen. Adrian Bradshaw, deputy commander of ISAF, called the actions on the video "disgusting."
"Any acts which treat the dead, enemy or friendly, with disrespect are utterly unacceptable and do not represent the standards we expect of coalition forces," Bradshaw said in a video statement. He said he was speaking on behalf of [ISAF Commander Gen. John] Allen, who is out of the country.
"It is difficult to say what long-term impacts this might have, and I would hesitate to get into speculation, but obviously any sort of footage, any sort of activity of this kind that is grossly against all the moral values that the coalition forces are standing for are very much working against our cause and against everything that we are standing for and that we are here for," said Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson, a NATO ISAF spokesman. "We will find the ones who are responsible and hold them accountable."
An earlier statement from NATO-led forces in Afghanistan said, "ISAF strongly condemns the actions depicted in the video, which appear to have been conducted by a small group of U.S. individuals, who apparently are no longer serving in Afghanistan." [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
Spokesman For Helmand Province Marines: Video's "Hate Does Not Represent The U.S. Marine Corps." From CNN.com: "'We are aware of the video. The hate in it does not represent the U.S. Marine Corps,' said Col. Ricco Player, a spokesman for the Marines in Afghanistan's volatile Helmand province." [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
DOD Spokesman: Behavior "Egregious, Disgusting." From CNN.com: "'Regardless of the circumstances or who is in the video, this is egregious, disgusting behavior,' said Department of Defense spokesman Capt. John Kirby. 'It's hideous. It turned my stomach.'" [CNN.com, 1/12/12]
Conduct Will Be Investigated For Possible Violations Of U.S. And International Law
AP: Naval Criminal Investigative Service Heading Inquiry Will Investigate "Violations Of The U.S. Military Legal Code As Well As The International Laws Of Warfare." From the Associated Press:
Pentagon officials worry that outrage over a video purporting to depict Marines urinating on Taliban corpses will tarnish the reputation of the entire military. Some also fear it could undermine prospects for exploratory Afghan peace talks.
After roundly condemning the Marines' alleged behavior, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and top military leaders on Thursday promised a full investigation and sought to contain the damage at home and abroad.
Panetta also said the incident could endanger the prospects for peace talks, although the Obama administration and the Taliban each voiced readiness Thursday to try peace talks while pledging to carry on the military conflict until their rival objectives are met. The separate statements by senior American and Taliban officials illustrated the improved environment for Afghan reconciliation efforts as well as the daunting task ahead.
The Naval Criminal Investigative Service, the law enforcement arm of the Navy, is heading the main inquiry, which is expected to weigh evidence of violations of the U.S. military legal code as well as the international laws of warfare. Separately, the Marine Corps is doing its own internal investigation.
[...]
Pentagon officials said the criminal investigation would likely look into whether the Marines violated laws of war, which include prohibitions against photographing or mishandling bodies and detainees. It also appeared to violate the U.S. Uniform Code of Military Justice, which governs conduct. Thus, some or all of the four Marines could face a military court-martial or other disciplinary action. [Associated Press, 1/13/12]
Geneva Convention Prohibits "Humiliating Or Degrading Treatment" Against All Persons, Including Combatants Placed Outside The Fight For Any Reason. Article 3 of The Geneva Convention, to which the United States is a signatory, states:
In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each Party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) taking of hostages;
(c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples. [The Geneva Convention, accessed 1/13/12, via the International Committee of the Red Cross]
Uniform Code Of Military Conduct Prohibits "Conduct Of A Nature To Bring Discredit Upon The Armed Forces." Article 134 of The Uniform Code Of Military Conduct states:
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court. [Uniform Code of Military Conduct, accessed 1/13/12, via au.af.mil]
LA Times: Military Law Expert Says Marines Could Be Charged Under Uniform Code. The Los Angeles Times reported:
The Marines involved could be prosecuted under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, said Eugene Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School. That article states that it is a violation to engage in "conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces."
Punishment for violating Article 134 is not spelled out, Fidell said, but would be determined by a military court-martial.
The Marines could also be charged under Article 92, which includes failure to obey an order and dereliction of duty -- serious violations, said Elizabeth Hillman, a professor at Hastings College of the Law at the University of California and president of the National Institute of Military Justice. Conviction of violating Article 92 could bring two years in prison, she said.
The Marines could conceivably be charged with violating the War Crimes Act of 1996, which prohibits "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment," and carries the death penalty. But such a prosecution is unlikely, Fidell said, because Congress in 2006 narrowed the scope of the act out of concern that U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan would be unjustly charged with war crimes.
Under the military justice code, commanders could also be prosecuted and punished for their troops' actions under the principle of command responsibility, Fidell said. If evidence showed that commanders tolerated the behavior on the video, they could face criminal charges, Hillman said. Lesser penalties could include administrative actions that would effectively end an officer's career.
The person or persons who shot the video could also face charges, Fidell said. [The Los Angeles Times, 1/12/12]
Retired Maj. Gen. Spider Marks: "I'm Shocked That It Took Place. This Is Absolutely Outside The Bounds Of Anything That's Trained Or Is Acceptable." From the January 11 edition of CNN's Erin Burnett OutFront:
ERIN BURNETT (Host): General Marks, let me start with you. What's your reaction when you see this? Are you shocked that this sort of thing happens or is this something that as awful as it is you know happens and you're shocked the fact that they videotaped it?
MAJ. GEN. SPIDER MARKS, U.S. ARMY GENERAL (RET.): No, I'm shocked that it took place. This is absolutely outside the bounds of anything that's trained or is acceptable and these young men know that and I can't explain their behavior. I need to tell you the Marine Corps will jump all over this. They'll investigate this and there will be some -- there will be some accountability that will come from this. [...]
So to answer your question, it has everything to do with recruiting of our enemies, as Fran indicated. It has less to do with the Marine Corps or our Department of Defense in terms of bringing great young men and women on board. I'm not concerned about that. Sadly, behavior like this often occurs, it's really very aberrant. This is a digital form of scalping. It's just -- it should not have occurred and I know that chain of command is going to figure out why. [CNN,Erin Burnett OutFront,1/11/12, via CNN.com]
Bush National Security Adviser Frances Fragos Townsend: Act Is "Illegal," Video Will Be Used To Recruit Terrorists. From the January 11 edition of CNN's Erin Burnett OutFront:
BURNETT: Fran, let me ask you, I know obviously you were advising the Bush administration when the Abu Ghraib pictures started coming out. Those started in a trickle and then became something more. Does this to you feel like an isolated event or --
FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, G. W. BUSH NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Look, based on what we know at the moment, it does look like an isolated event, but what you have to understand and what gets lost to people around the world when they see this picture and this horrible video is that this is contrary to U.S. policy, it's illegal. It's against the uniform code of military justice and that's why there will be an accountability review. But what happens is it gets a life of its own and so it's used by people like the Taliban and al-Qaeda to recruit, to train, to inspire and to raise money. And so it has -- and awful as it is in and of itself it has consequences that go on far beyond just this story. [CNN,Erin Burnett OutFront, 1/11/12, via CNN.com]
Bush, Administration Officials Apologized For Abu Ghraib Prisoner Abuse: "A Stain On Our Country's Honor"
April 2004: Photos Emerge Depicting American Soldiers Abusing Iraqi Prisoners. In 2004, photos emerged showing American soldiers at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison in abusing Iraqi prisoners in order to make them talk. As The New York Times noted, CBS News reported that the Army "had photographs showing a detainee with wires attached to his genitals and another showing a dog attacking an Iraqi prisoner. The program also reported that the Army's investigation of the case included a statement from an Iraqi detainee who charges that a translator hired to work at the prison raped a male juvenile prisoner." [The New York Times, 4/29/04]
President Bush Apologized For Abu Ghraib Abuse: "It's A Stain On Our Country's Honor And Our Country's Reputation." From a May 6, 2004, USA Today article:
President Bush issued his first outright apology Thursday for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers, saying photographs of the mistreatment made Americans "sick to our stomachs."
In a White House briefing with Jordan's King Abdullah, Bush said he told Abdullah that "I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families."
Bush's apology, which he stopped short of giving in two interviews with Arab television stations Wednesday, came as the administration continued frantic efforts to control the damage from the prisoner abuse scandal.
The president continued to insist that guilty parties will be brought to justice. In addition to probes of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, investigations have been launched into the deaths of at least 10 Iraqi prisoners at U.S. prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"It's a stain on our country's honor and our country's reputation," Bush said. "I am sickened by what I saw and sickened that people got the wrong impression." [USA Today, 5/6/04]
Condoleezza Rice: Abu Ghraib Photos Were "Sickening" And "Outrageous." From a May 4, 2004, CNN article:
Facing anger at home and abroad, the Bush administration is moving aggressively to signal it is taking seriously the abuse of Iraqi prisoners detailed in an internal military report.
[...]
In a speech before the Anti-Defamation League, Rice said the activities shown in photos broadcast last week of mistreatment of Iraqi detainees at the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad were "sickening" and "outrageous." [CNN.com, 5/4/04]
Colin Powell: "Conduct Depicted In [Abu Ghraib] Photos" Was "Immoral," "Stunned Every American." From the May 4, 2004, CNN article:
Speaking from the United Nations, Secretary of State Colin Powell condemned the conduct depicted in the photos as "immoral."
The pictures "stunned every American," Powell told reporters after a meeting on the Middle East. "They showed acts that are despicable. The president has spoken to this. It is totally out of character of what we would expect from our men and women in uniform." [CNN.com, 5/4/04]
Donald Rumsfeld: Abu Ghraib Photos "Deeply Disturbing," And "Un-American." From the May 4, 2004, CNN article:
Labeling the Abu Ghraib pictures "deeply disturbing," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the alleged behavior of the U.S. troops in the pictures was "totally unacceptable and un-American."
Rumsfeld said the Pentagon would pursue charges against those involved. But he defended the Defense Department's handling of the matter, saying an investigation was under way and disclosed three months before the pictures became public. [CNN.com, 5/4/04]
CNN's Loesch Joined By Pamela Geller In Defending Marines
Geller: "I Love These Marines." In a January 11 post on her blog, Pamela Geller wrote:
CAIR has whipped itself up into an Islamic frenzy because a video surfaced that appears to show US Marines combat gear urinating on several dead jihadis.
Here's the thing. Hamas liars, CAIR, say jihad and pure Islam is "fringe," "extremist." So why do they CAIR about disrespecting the Taliban? According to CAIR lies, Taliban and jihadists do not represent Islam, they have "hijacked Islam"; so why would CAIR care about "respect"?
CAIR calls these Marines immoral, but considers honor killings, clitorectomies, forced marriage, child marriage, polygamy, subjugation of women, slaughter of non-Muslims, Jew hatred moral?
Would anyone have CAIRed if Marines urinated on dead Nazi soldiers during WWII? (Anyone besides CAIR and nazis [sic], that is).
I love these Marines. Perhaps this is the infidel interpretation of the Islamic ritual of washing and preparing the body for burial. [Atlas Shrugs, 1/12/12]
Geller Frequently Makes Extreme And Anti-Muslim Comments. From an August 2010 Geller profile by the Religion News Service:
Pamela Geller, a Long Island native who writes the blog "Atlas Shrugs," said she was the "quintessential New York City career girl" before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Since then, she has co-founded groups dedicated to fighting the "Islamization" of America, sponsored anti-Muslim ads in several cities, and, more recently, become a near daily presence on television news programs. [...]
Now, even Muslim groups reluctantly acknowledge Geller is front and center in the mosque debate. "People say don't give her too much credit, she's a fringe character," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "But she is a fringe character who every day is on CNN, Fox, The Washington Post, and The New York Times. She is the driving force behind the Islamic center campaign."
Some media experts doubt Geller's influence, though, and question why reporters have given her controversial views a platform. Postings on "Atlas Shrugs" have included a video suggesting Muslims have sex with goats, a doctored picture showing President Obama urinating on an American flag, and a fake image of new Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan in Nazi garb.
Geller has also accused Obama of anti-Semitism, said that he does the bidding of "Islamic overlords," and posted an essay suggesting that the president is the love child of Malcolm X. [Religion News Service, 8/20/10]
That was not only criminal, but extremely stupid, on the part of those Marines. What on earth were they thinking?
Perhaps they were thinking how sh!t hot it was they enemy that was dead and not them. Have you every been shot at by the guy who just killed your brothers in arms. No? then shut your mouth. The only thing those Marines did that was stupid was video the event. they pulled out gold teeth of the enemy in WW!! and they were all hero in spite of it. You people have no idea what it takes to kill a man.
You're in the wrong place for it. Take this type of banal rhetoric back to Fox Nation.
I don't need to have been in a certain situation to know where morality and professionalism end.
I'm so sick of this mentality of vengeance and vindictiveness and absolute hate. How does this prove we are morally stronger then our enemies?
Thanks to the right wing mentality of no self examination, no apologies, and winning at all costs, we've become a nation that invades first and asks questions later, tortures, and now apparently we even have right wingers advocating corpse desecration.
This is a liberal administration this happened under. The same liberal administration that started bombing Libya, which was no threat to us. The same liberal administration that has greatly increased the use of drones in several countries and killing thousands of innocent people. The same administration that has still continued the use of torture and is still detaining people they have no proof of guilt at Guantanamo and in prisons in other countries. The same liberal administration that is doing everything they can to start a war with Iran and Syria.
You see this is not just a right wing problem it is also a left wing problem because you see both parties are controlled by the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about and big banks they no longer work for the Americam people and it is unfortunate that idiots like you can not see the truth but are still locked in this right wing left wing paradigm which is exactaly what the establishment wants that way we fight amongst ourselves and not focus on the real problems.
Dana Loesch, a Big Journalism editor. Big Journalism is under the umbrella of the Breitbart family of ultra right wing smear and character assassination websites and enterprises.
You can pretend to be a liberal, or a marine, or an objective observer, but the fact is that a writer for a right wing hack website is out there advocating for the desecration of corpses. No spin can change the simple facts of the matter. Sorry.
This kind of talk does nothing but further the danger these people face out there.
Now I'm not saying Loesch is a tool for some vast conspiracy to further militarize the United States while destroying our constitutional rights under the guise of protecting us from terror...but I'll be damned if it doesn't always seem to end up having precisely that effect.
War is money and some are getting very rich off of the hyped up war on terror.
You are going to have to give some credible evidence to support that extraordinary assertion. Otherwise, I call b.s.
As for the rest of your argument, the President never claimed to be a pacifist. If you labor under that delusion you were not paying attention to him during his campaign. That is on you.
Part of the problem is we are not given many choices it usually comes down to voting for the lesser of the evils. In 2008 you had Obama or McCain and neither was competent to serve as president. You had Bush and Gore another great pair of choices and it looks like this year it will be Obama and either Romney or Gingrich so again we have nothing but complete idiots to choose from.
Part of the problem is we are not given many choices it usually comes down to voting for the lesser of the evils. In 2008 you had Obama or McCain and neither was competent to serve as president. You had Bush and Gore another great pair of choices and it looks like this year it will be Obama and either Romney or Gingrich so again we have nothing but complete idiots to choose from.
And is Ron Paul really any better than the current crop? The man wants to practically do away with half of the constitution and government.
We already had what Ron Paul wants in this country. It was called the Articles of Confederation. It didn't last five years before everything started going to $#!t.
Also what is your beef with spelling? "Afaganastan", "politicions", "exactaly", "there/their", "to/too", "your/you're". Please don't tell me you are home schooled.
Saying that Obama is an "idiot" is not factual. He may disagree with many of his policies, but it is well known that Obama is a very intelligent individual.
Bush was an entirely different person--we disagreed with most of his policies and many decisions were idiotic, and factually, he was intellectually incurious. To pretend that the choice between Bush and Gore is similar or the same is dishonest.
Just look at how his administration has functioned so far. It has been a disaster and the health care law has done nothing to lower cost it has done the opposite and as more of it gets implemented it becomes more apparent that it was rushed through an Obama didn't understand what he was sighning he just wanted to get something through so he could say he tried but he failed miserably.
Look at the fast and furious program that was another of Obama's disasters.
Then you have the Solyndra scandal.
You have the bombing of Libya and the increase of the drone attacks that has killed thousands of innocent people.
So again because Obama has a college edjucation does not give him common sense and yes he is an idiot and being a smooth talker(or should I say a good TelePrompTer reader) does not make him smart.
You really have no place to call anybody stupid.
Ron Paul does not want to get rid of half of the constitution he wants a government that obeys the constitution. The government needs to be cut down in size because it has become too big and is not what the founding fathers wanted because unlike you they seen the dangers of big government and you are too stupid to understand this.
As i was saying...
By getting rid of departments and amendments, like the 16th and 17th, living by an extremely literal version of the 10th amendment. Also how is he going to make government "obey" (his interpretation of) the constitution? The president doesn't really have as much power as you think it does.
How do you gauge how big it is and how do you know that is what the founders wanted? They lived in extremely different times. For one, only land owning men could vote and people owned slaves.
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/database/article_display.cfm?HHID=636
Everything from comparing a front loading musket to a fully automatic Mp5 sub machine-gun, to thinking people can still just run out there and claim a few acres to homestead, these people live in an underdeveloped political fantasyland.
I don't get it. Trekkies and ren-fair people usually seem to be able to go to the conventions on the weekend, have fun, and then come home and get back to 2012. Even some of those revolutionary and civil war reanactors seem to be able to distinguish centuries ago from the present.
This scandal shows the glaring double-standard in the media. At least MMfA is sticking to their anti-war guns.
UPDATED: CNN Contributor On Marines Urinating On Dead Bodies: "Supposed To Be A Scandal"? "I'd Drop Trou And Do It Too"
Your post is absurd! I don't think you bother to read or digest what you read, you just react based almost always on false info. and Faux talking points.
Fox's Hume: Marines Urinating On Dead Bodies May Be Unbecoming, But "I Just Don't Think It's Despicable"
Then again just under this article are links to CNN journalist criticizing their compadre DL. Are you so whacked out that you think DL is a liberal? lol. It seems the only ones excusing this incident are coming mostly from the right. Who would have thought they were in the pockets of the Obama re-election campaign. Britt Hume and DL? lol.
Again all I see is so-called conservatives defending this.
Besdies which, even by their own rules, they are in the wrong.
This does not condone what they did... after all, the enemy was dead. At that point they are no longer a threat.The Marines crossed the point where it was a job and they made it personal!
And you are correct.... those marines made it personal, and it's time to pull them back to get them refocused on what they are trained to do...
That's dehumanizing the enemy. We are on the same page.
On the other hand... anyone who's been over there realizes how hard it is to get a corpse...
We honored the dead by naming strong points after them...
To be totally honest, I'm not sure we recovered 2 dead bodies (of the 'enemy') but there were sure many fast deportations of said bodies, and innocent casualties questions...
Whenever someone is propagandized to think of his enemy as less than human, he and the nation he represents will be defeated.
It's a mistake we make over and over again.
In basic training you shoot not at targets but silhouettes of people. Before you went to a combat zone you were taught that the enemy is the enemy. They are to be killed without regard to their humanity. You even called them by derisive names in order to make them less human.
Propaganda in the military serves to make it easier for the troops to kill another human without feeling guilt for the act.
I suggest you watch a movie like Full Metal Jacket to get the feel for the training and the attitude our troops are expected to have.
And like I said, it's a mistake we make over and over again.
US Army 31n 1969 - 71
Unfortunately the propahanda exists but I see no other way to condition people to kill other people.
You said originally: "Since when are our troops conditioned to believe their enemies are less than human?"
Now you're disputing whether it's right to do it.
The military have only a few months to train someone coming from civilian life where a life is precious to a military life where you are expected to kill people. They found what they think is the most efficient way to do it. Can you think of an alternate way?
I'm a liberal, I hated the military but I understand what they were doing. Apparently you don't.
Did he sing about Jodie or did he sing about living the life of danger in Airborne while running in basic training?
Did he take training with the bayonets? Did he attack dummies of REAL humans? Ask him to recall how they broke him down and rebuilt him in the military image in basic training.
What do they call the Taliban? Did they call them a derisive name?
All of which has absolutely dick to do with your assertion that they are "trained" to believe the enemy is less than human. Being 'broken down and rebuilt in the military image' didn't make him abandon his own humanity. I guess some men are just made of better stuff.
When during your training were you taught it was OK to do something like this?
But the training as a whole created the atmosphere of contempt for the enemy.
The Japanese did it in WW2, The Germans did it... the US troops did it, the British did it. In Vietnam the North Vietnamese did it and who can forget the summary execution of a Viet Cong by the South Vietnamese General? In war theaters this crap always happens.
Is it right? NO... should it be tolerated? NO! But the stage is set in the training the military is given.
We were taught that whatever we did to our captured and dead enemy troops will be revisited on American dead and captives.
At no time were we trained to think of our enemy as less than human. We were taught that they were determined and highly trained troops, just like us and that to underestimate the enemy was the biggest mistake we could make.
I never disputed whether it was right to do it. It is wrong in every instance. I said that we never seem to learn our lesson not that it's right.
What they did was wrong. But given their training I can see why they did it. They are killers.... they are trained killers. It happens in every war. It's unfortunate but that's the way it is!
I don't care how you want to spin it, this is sick behavior. Who thinks this is an acceptable outlet for adrenaline? How is it that this becomes the agreed upon course of action?
"I know, let's gather the bodies of people we just killed, and then videotape us desecrating their corpses with our bodily waste!"
When do we stop making excuses for this kind of sick behavior?
This is an "OK" risk to you because it's "justified" because the guys doing the disrespect may have friends that were killed by Taliban "terrorists"??!!
SO, in that same frame of mind, you won't mind if the Taliban send out videos of them peeing on the dead bodies of YOUR "brothers"??!!
Good grief man, grow a brain!!
Even my brother, a 35year Veteran who just retired finds this "despicable", and "court-martial worthy" behavior!!
I imagine it takes less for a desensitized Marine to kill a man than you'd have us believe. The fact that they urinated on a corpse is proof.
Anyhow, you don't have to listen to liberals' outrage over it. Listen to the U.S. military instead, which is more enraged.
If you're a Marine, then you already know that your commanders find this type of behavior disgusting. You should take your attitude to them and let them you know you are fit to wear the uniform.
Also, can you expound on your proposition that I can't handle the truth? I'd love to hear what you mean by that. It should make for a good read.
If you were a solider in Afaganastan and had severed several tours and had to witness your brothers getting their legs and arms blowed off by IED explosives or had them beheaded by the Taliban fighters you might have a diffrent opinion. Of course if you were in their position you would simply pea you pants when any threat of an attack came.
It is our corrupt governments fault things like this happen because we should not be in Afganastan anyway. The war on terror is a complete LIE and it is a war we will never win especially when you have the DHS calling someone that simply has a Ron Paul bumper sticker or someone that actually believes the government should follow the Constitution. It is an excuse for our government to push unconstitutional laws like the Patriot Act and the recent NDAA law along with the TSA groping everyone at the airport and infringing on our 4th Ammendment rights but idiots like you are to stupid to see what is really going on and theorem grab our government is undertaking you think oh it must be done to keep us safe from an enemy that is completely made up by the government and many of the so called terrorist that were plotting attacks here in the US were later found to be instigated by the FBI and some were actually given what they believed to be bomb making material so you go on stupid boy and believe the lies you are told.
Here's a hint: It's called Afghanistan.
I'm guessing you also think you're one of the smart ones, too. Don't you?
It is you that is afraid of the boggy man that our government calls a terrorist not me. It is you that is dumb enough to believe the government lies.
You are so pathetic that because what I say is true and you have no argument you resort to making fun of a misspelled word to try to make yourself seem somehow smarter but it only shows your stupidity.
Lead me to believe that you simply don't have a simple clue as to what you're talking about.
I'm dumb enough to believe the government lies? WTF?
I'm sure that's not what you meant, but it's what you typed. You see, the point I'm making is that your communication skills are so poor as to be laughable. Yet you think you deserve to be taken seriously.
You're a natural born citizen of the place Charles Pierce calls Idiot America: the land where ignorance is a virtue and stupid people believe their stupid ideas should hold just as much weight as intelligent ideas.
I won't "debate" your points because they're poorly-thought out, they lack cohesion, and they're little more than paranoid ramblings. I won't validate either your illness or your ignorance by pretending what you say here is worthy of serious consideration.
I'm sure you will fail to understand what that means.
Imbecile. Your name sure fits you.
So Imbecile go phuck yourself you retard.
QED
Such level of coherence, rationality, civility and logic. You are certainly somebody to pay attention to.
You probably sit in your bed at night, eyes darting around the room, thinking every little sound you hear is the mean ol' gubmint coming to take yer guns and such.
Either way, when I see someone go on such a whacked out, paranoid tirade and doing so with such a horrendous grip on our language as you just did, I find it impossible to take you seriously at all.
You're an intellectual featherweight. That knowledge must help explain why you're so angry and paranoid--that knowing that every time you walk into a room and look around, you're probably the dumbest object in it.
Is that what happened? These Marines peed there pants. Here all this time I thought they killed men who were trying to kill them and then pi$$ed on their dead bodies as an outlet for the immense fear and aggression they felt. my bad...........
Sure things on the battle field can get crazy, but they are best left there. However,once these guys start filming themselves doing crazy stuff as though what they are doing is somehow cool or funny then they are just proving the point that most soldiers are nimrods. Remember, during Viet Nam the educated people normally did not enlist. These guys are just perpetuating the stereotype of soldiers being dim bulbs with rifles. It is not something to applaud or to defend.
The whole point, as I was told since 2001, was not to become like them, or to be comparable to them."
Those aren't my words, but a SGT Alex Lemons, USMC who served in Iraq multiple times. The defense I've heard so much is "well, the Taliban does this and that", which is BS. Since when do we justify our actions by comparing it to our enemies? Like SGT Lemons says, we're supposed to better than that.
Exactly. There is no argument I detest more than well yeah we have joined the evil doers club but at least we arent as bad as THOSE guys.
If you don't want an elite fighting force of killer will will shot your eye out and skull fu(k you then stop creating them!
And it happens a lot, especially when the leaders are under stress...
You dont think that makes sense do you? Forgetting about its basic incoherence. I GREW UP on Marine bases. My childhood I lived with a Marine. My father STILL had integrity. The very concept that you cannot be both tough and have decency and integrity is plainly STUPID and not in any way part of the Marine culture I grew up with
It disgusts me to no end.
The soldiers who took gold teeth out of enemy soldiers in WWII are also war criminals, not heroes. If one of you family members did that during WWII, I truly hope that they are currently rotting in h3ll!
I bet you think that President Obama doesn't believe in "American exceptionalism". Clearly, neither do you. The things that have made this country exceptional in the eyes of the rest of the world are that we are a nation of laws and justice. We don't do the barbaric things that monarchies and dictatorships do.
Firstly I will vote Obama again for sure. secondly America is exceptional partly due to our Marine Corps. Thirdly you are acting like these men weren't, just prior to this video, shooting at those boys and trying to kill them. Until you have fought next to them you should shut you effin' mouth. As I said before their only mistake was videoing it.
What part of CORPSE DESECRATION are you not getting?
Are you really suggesting there is a valid argument in favor of CORPSE DESECRATION?
"A key part of any insurgent's strategy is to attack their domestic and international opposition's political will. One of the insurgents' most effective means to undermine and erode political will is to portray their opposition as untrustworthy or illegitimate. These attacks are especially effective when insurgents can portray the opposition as unethical by their own standards."
You know what that's from? Petraeus' counterinsurgency field manual,that's what.
I repeat, regardless of provocation, it was stupid to have done this at all. It was extremely stupid to have videotaped it. It will likely cost American and other multinational force lives and it does not advance the cause. That's not hysterical, that's fact.
Yep, and I said they should be punished for video taping it.
Situational morality, how sweet.
Well I work in an office that is full of men and women who have lost brothers in arms over in OEF and OIF. I also work with a couple of guys who are minus a limb or two from the same events. Do you know what they all say? They all tell me this was atrocious, and wtf were those Marines thinking? They've all been shot at (all have a CIB or CAB, several have PH's, Bronze and Silver Stars) and have fortunatley lived to tell about it. They didn't feel like peeing on the enemy after a firefight.
I highly doubt you've ever been shot at either. Or had someone die on you from getting shot. I am sure you have no idea what it takes to kill a man. I know I don't, I hope to never find out.
Then stop bad mouthing those who have.
Psycopaths are usually naturally and easily lethal. Do we need their input on this topic as well?
That little red thing that is my gravatar here, took me for a 30 mile trip to work with the ambiant temperature just starting to rise above freezing. Don't talk to me about grit or bravery. Stupidity has a larger part in both than most folks are aware.
You may have done something, but I doubt it...
You can use my doubt as fodder to continue your 'stance'..
We have a long history of humane behavior during wartime, going back to our Revolution. Whenever our troops have been shown to dishonor their uniforms, regardless of the circumstances, Americans have been appalled. If we are to believe in what the right refers to as American Exceptionalism, we need to show the world our exceptionalism. Or is that just one more empty, jingoistic phrase, repeated so often that we've lost track of what it means?
Mark this up as a giant leap backwards in our efforts.
Man has been killing each other in wars since we first learned we could take another tribe's food and women by beating them with clubs and rocks.
Are you telling me that this is some natural inclination? Were the Egyptians urinating on the corpses of slain Babylonians? Were the Macedonains letting their morning ouzo go on the Phoenicians? The Romans were not just salting the ground, but adding ammonia to the graves of the Carthaginians? Was the Battle of Hastings in 1066 followed by the Soaking of the dead Normans?
Come on, man!
This is absurd. This is not normal behavior, and it should not be tolerated by professional soldiers from a modern democracy ...period.
Idiot.
Life isn't a video game. There is no call to desecrate your opponents after defeating them. Perhaps you don't seem to understand this:
If these people are "heroes," it's in spite of this fact not because of it. There's a reason we don't have a "dig the gold fillings out" medal, or a commendation for a gallon of urine on a dead opponent. These things are dishonorable.
If these kids were SO stressed out that they resorted to inhumane, childish, undisciplined and distasteful measures such as this, they should be shipped home immediately. If they weren't, then so much worse. You and every American should be seriously ashamed by their actions because this reflects on our nation as a whole. That it's not enough to defeat our opponents, that we are so undisciplined and disgusting and low that we have to humiliate the remains as well.
We have to be better than they are, or what are they fighting to save?
I must agree. Shouldn't have been sent over there 9 years too late to kill people in the first place, and now all you want to do is badmouth them instead of offer them help. Sound patriotic to me, not.
Never? Never once after being in a fire fight and having killed a few of the enemy while the others fled, never did you feel the urge to kick the dead body of the guy who just wounded one of your fire team members. Never thought fu(k this guy, who the fu(k does he think he is trying to kill me. I'm gonna kick him one more time before pi$$ing on his still warm body. never? liar.............
Who did that guy think he WAS coming to YOUR country and trying to kill you...WAIT, that didnt happen did it? You were in HIS country and were you trying to kill HIM? So what makes HIM worse than YOU? Other than he was born THERE and you were born HERE?
You think he is a LIAR because he wasnt brainwashed and lacking in decency? I think there is something wrong with you. You need help
There's a difference between feeling like desecrating a body and actually desecrating a body.
99.99% of decent human beings, know that once the bullets stop flying, it's time to become human again. Sure there's pent up anger,fear, frustration. But we're human beings, we're not animals.
And we kicked butt and didn't have to 'show' anybody how to be a real soldier...
Thanks again!
Urinating on the dead is uncooth, juvenile and is just plain stupid. Your excuses don't wash because it can also be "excuses" for rape and other barbaric actions.
Being trained in the military to kill is not the same as being a killer. If you actually talked with the WWII vets or seen videos where they were interviewed, you will see how they did NOT enjoy killing " the enemy". In some cases it was a kill or be killed and they have regrets about that for the rest of their lives.
And I doubt YOU were ever in combat.
You may be surprised to learn that I don't find this a compelling argument, Adendrools. I don't have to have experience serving in the military to know the difference between right and wrong. And what these Marines did was wrong. They dishonored their country and the Corps.
Neither do you. I've known a few genuine hard cases in my time, and they were mostly pretty laid back. Why? Because they had confidence in their ability to deal with whatever came up. You talk too tough to actually be a tough guy, Adendrools, much less a Marine.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put another Support The Troops sticker on my car.
Adend & these other folks just don't GET IT!!
We are SUPPOSED to be BETTER than the "terrorists", not worse.
And dam~ed sure not that the expense of more of our children's lives....
The Taliban fighters were human beings. Decent people don't urinate on anyone, even if we at war with those who we are battling.
And what the Taliban did doesn't give us the liberty to disregard our standards of behavior. We need to behave in a way that we should behave. We don't get to get rid of our standards of behavior just because we're interacting with people who might not live up to our standards of behavior. Why rightwingers don't understand that concept, that two wrongs don't make a right, that just because others behave badly, it doesn't magically give us license to behave badly too.....
this has REALLY ticked me off, and the fact that CNN would continue to allow this person to be a commentator is unethical in itself...
Since Bush/Cheney and their welcome reception of torture, the rest of the world no longer admires us. We are just another bully to the rest of the world, no matter what we may do in the future.
I can understand the Marines hatred of these Taliban, because the Taliban have no qualms about killing them and urinating on their bodies, which I am sure has been done before and then some. Just look at what happened in Somalia...
But now, thanks to the conservative hate machine, America is looked at as no better than the rest of the bullies in this world.
Desecrating the bodies of your enemies is one thing, providing propaganda material that's used to create more enemies is another thing entirely.
We all know war is ugly. We also know it's emotionally satisfying to take revenge on an enemy even though it's against code. The trophy video, just like the Abu Graib photos, is where stupidity trumps revenge and becomes a self-inflicted wound.
The problem that's upsetting most of us here is that this is incredibly damaging to the soldiers who are still over there, like my neighbor's son, or those like my son who are likely to be there later this year. Neither is a REMF. Both have MOS that are outside the wire (nearly) every day.
If you were headed back I have no doubt you'd be ticked off at these jerks for the video, but want to stand in line with them in memory of your wounded or deceased buddies. We both know that the Taliban and other locals do much, much worse.
Believe me, I understand revenge fantasies, I was a student at Kent State when unarmed students going to class, half of all dead and wounded, were shot.
But at the end of the day, the only way we're going to leave Afghanistan and Pakistan is if we can negotiate with some responsible parties over there. That only happens without incendiary behavior.
Which is why we have UCMJ to remind us to not to let our emotions control our actions.
THIS is what the Marines themselves say it takes to be a Marine. Obviously these sh!tbags don't have what it takes to be United States Marines, son. I'm not really surprised they put it on teh yootoob though, what with Marines being known for their intelligence and all.
I refuse to accept your negative view of the United States Marines.
So... What you're saying is that you want us to be like the Taliban then? Disregaring human life and death like they have and do?
I'd like to think, and I KNOW, we, as a country, are better than that. Maybe you don't believe it.
I also doubt you've ever been shot at. Hard to have that happen sitting behind your keyboard at home.
I work with two former Marines and one Navy SEAL. I showed them your posts. They indicate that if someone like you were in their units when they were serving in Afghanistan, you would have certainly been either a victim of friendly fire or would just have been left to fend for your own under fire. They indicate that people with your attitude tended to get their fellow soldiers killed and weren't particularly popular in their units.
You seem to be implying that you have served. I think you are lying. The Marines that I know would never condone such behavior.
Ya know what he said? That's not how a real marine acts.
Though he was more colorful.
And because they are dead in their own country, killed by innocent, patriotic soldiers sent to that country from the other side of the planet.
I guess if they didn't want to get killed and peed on, they should not have been living in their country. Or they should not have shot at people who had every right to be in their country- because Americans have every right to whatever they want. Or something.
No dip sh!t, because they we shooting at these Marines, that is what makes them the enemy. Get it?
You sure about that? Stop me if you've heard this before...U.S. forces in Iraq/Afghanistan have killed unarmed people including men, women and children. Sometimes accidentally and sometimes just because they wanted to.
Since you WON'T respond to the MANY posts above; we'll take it that this is "acceptable" to you-that more of our men will be killed because of it.
Before you reply AGAIN, about me or others having never been in that situation-no, *I* haven't: but my brother has-for 35 YEARS. And how he feels about this is posted above. Read the other posts-and if you STILL say the only crime was videotaping it-get help, SON, YOU are a sociopath....
To use your logic, if the Taliban were fired upon by coalition forces, survived and killed their attackers, desecrating the corpses would be justified?
Your hypocrisy is showing.
Can you please clarify your argument in this matter?
Suppose for a moment that those urinating Marines had been videotaped by another individual without their knowlege or without their consent. Are you proposing that they should not be punished for their actions now that they have been exposed?
Where is the failure or breakdown of discipline in this case? Is it those the Marines:
1) lacking the discipline to resist unrinating on enemy corpses or
2) lacking the discipline to ensure that no one videotaped or photographed them urinating on enemy corpses, or
3) lacking the discipline to resist allow videotaping of themselves urinating on enemy corpses?
Clarify if the issue is
1) getting caught urinating on enemy corpses, or
2)actually urinating on enemy corpses.
Which of course runs contrary to the real issue that is number 1. That argument is like saying that the police who enact violence on protesters (like the pepper spray incident) should be charged for lack of discipline NOT for the act itself, but rather for allowing themselves to be taped....
One thing's for sure, she sure isn't a lady.
Maybe they missed this part of their training: Honor means they will live by the highest ethical and moral standards, have respect for others, and act in a responsible, mature and dependable manner.
I am sitting here trying to form a coherent thought about this piece but I am so angry that I can't even think straight. Sh!t like this is likely to put MORE American lives at risk. Well fu(king done, Marines!
The usual suspects also tried to defend the soldier who was caught on video executing a wounded Iraqi several years ago.
It's unethical and such behavior is not befitting of a Marine. In no way is urinating on a corpse exceptional.
For people who've been crowing for years about American exceptionalism, I'd love for them to explain the meaning to me.
Remember when the Abu Ghraib stuff came out, the popular defense by the wingnuts was to point out that "at least we're not beheading them like they're doing to us!"
They insist that everybody recognize how "exceptional" we are, but are happy to be just slightly better than the worst people on the planet.
I think Rick Perry summed it up pretty well, if accidentally. When he was in NH swooning over the "Live Free or Die" motto, adding something like "Victory or death" from the Alamo, and he confessed that "we ( Real Americans, I assume) Love those slogans!"
And it's true. They love the sh*t out of some simple, tough guy slogans. They go crazy about bumper stickers and buzzwords that make them feel strong and proud.
It's the behavior, the principles and actions behind these slogans that they don't seem to care about. That takes some actual work. It's statements like Perry's, and items like this that make it so clear that, by their own admission, they love to talk the talk, but hate those of us who want to walk the walk.
If someone advocated that she be jailed for stating her opinion, then it would be a First Amendment issue.
They certainly dont think WE should be able to say stuff without them attacking us.
Otherwise, I mostly agree with your assessment. I can understand that the moral justification to oneself for killing another human takes different forms, including the dehumanization of your victim. I also understand that the actions taken on bahalf of a larger group (like a country, say, the USA) has farther-reaching effects, and purposeful desecration of one's enemies can have detrimental political results. It's one of the wonderful contradictions that manifest when our military goes to another country to kill some of their people.
My first observation is that you don't know what the 1st Amendment actually says. Maybe you should read it. Get back to us. Tell us how if Dana gets fired it is an infringement on her first amendment rights according to the Constitution. Let me let you in on something. It's NOT an infringement on her rights. Unless she goes to jail for what she said.
It's like how they don't understand what a hypocrite is.
~Abraham Lincoln
I don't think I've ever come across a thumbs down for quoting Honest Abe.
It made me ashamed to read what some of my fellow citizens think constitutes honorable behavior.
Some were even calling this event heroic.
We are seriously lost as a nation if this is what we think constitutes heroism.
I told them they might want to bring that to the attention of Marine Lt. Gen. Joe Waldhauser, who called the action "disgusting". Naturally, they didn't respond to that.
I've said it before as well. Turn the situation around. Taliban killing our guys, and then peeing on them and the video gets out. What would the reaction in America be? It would be condemning that's for sure, and harsh, as it should be.
I understand those guys over there are under a LOT of pressure. They are getting shot at. Their buddies are getting wounded, and or killed. It is still NO excuse for what they did. They dis honored themselves, their country, and the Corps.
End. Of. Story.
Unless it was one of those pretend Marines from CNN.
That reminds me, did any of the wingnuts ever come up with an example of those "phony soldiers" that the left idolizes ? I recall asking them about that a couple of years ago.
We don't mistreat our enemies because we strive to be better than them. Those two are happy to wallow in the mud with their chants of "they do it too" like the 5 year-olds they are.
Facts like that we have a massive nuclear arsenal, we're the only country who's ever used one in anger, invade countries at the drop of a hat, or have the largest war machine in history escape them. No no no no we also have to torture our POW's or desecrate corpses or else we won't be "respected" or will appear "weak".
BTW Loesch's twitter feed reads like an Ann Coulter column. CLASSY
Then there is Ann Coulter, who is just plain nuts AND full of it.
You're stupid
1) a fine mind
2) a sweet nature
In short, Loesch could never be "hot" to me. Same goes for the rest of the "ladies," primarily on Fox, who make regular appearances here.
My first serious girlfriend was one of the most beautiful girls I have ever seen. I was 17. Then I grew up. Nothing is more important than the quality of a persons heart.
But enough about how she obtained her current job.
She is pathetic.
Well, if Dana Loesch says the controversy is over, I guess it's over. Because, you know, Dana Loesch said so.
How is this even one whit defensible? Are the Taliban fighters insurgents or terrorists. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should such horrendous behavior be tolerated.
It makes one wonder what kind of latent repressed guys these big macho marines are....
What a disgusting human being this woman is!
Christian?
Republican!!!
In the words of Bugs Bunny: "What a maroon! What an ultra maroon!"
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-marines-incident-shut-your-mouth-war-hell_616699.html
This has nothing to do with, whether or not someone has been shot at or not.
From the article you linked:
I'm surprised you don't remember that Mr. West, because I sure as heck do. As in, we, as Americans, and the media were appalled at what happened to those 2 snipers in Mogadishu. The condemnations were swift and furious. Maybe you should remove your head from your nether regions and remember what happened.
Also:
You don't? Again, just because you don't remember it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it did.
Allen West = Gigantic moron.
These Marines aren't going to be given a letter of reprimand. They're going to be tried under the UCMJ and possibly dishonorably discharged from the USMC for conduct unbecoming a Marine. Basically West here is saying, "Hey, they did it to us, so peeing on those guys, who cares??
"
I can't believe this guy was EVER in the Armed Services of our country, and I'm glad he's not now.
What happened in Fallujah? Story from 3 years after it happened.
Horror in Fallujah
And honestly, let's remember what happened to Fallujah later. The town was basically leveled by Marines as they went in and search and destroyed.
There was plenty of outrage, and rightfully so about both of those incidents. Everytime I see THIS.
I keep wondering why they are called contractors when they were mercenaries. They are acting like these guys were building bridges or painting schools or something. The fact they were mercenaries doesnt justify the desecration of their bodies of course. They were not however ambushed on their way to fix a water treatment plant they were private soldiers in a war.
---------------------------------------
IMHO
UTOPIA
Righty hawks are the MOST pathetic people.
Radio, unlike cable, has to answer to FCC rules. Dana has not broken any rules, other than to have no class.
Second, is CNN going to get rid of this idiot? Why does CNN feel they always have to have someone of the Glen Beck genre? Didn't they learn their lesson with Beck? When you give wackos a show they always backfire on the station?
Dana, you of course, have none of these mitigating questions working in your favor. No battle fatigue, no heat of the battle temporary insanity, no having watched comrades die beside you or from a roadside bomb, no first hand experience of the pressures of war. In my mind Dana that makes you way more out of bounds than the Marines involved in this incident.
She writes: "There is a difference in advocating for the Marines to break the law, which I didn't do, and defending them from overly-dramatic hysteria. I was using absurdity to highlight absurdity. It's absurd to desecrate corpses...."
OH. NOW you tell us it was against the law and wrong. But the day before, on your show, you said: "I'd drop trou and do it, too. That's me, though. I want a million cool points for these guys...."
Like so many conservative commentators (and politicians) she must think we have a very short memory and the IQ of your typical FauxNews viewer.
Her mentor, employer and friend is Andrew Breitbart.
James O'Keefe is her fellow employee and peer.
No one who is familiar with her and her life choices is shocked by her response & input on this issue.
She is a member, in good standing, in the Vulgarian Shrieking Harpies Club, right up there alongside Ann Coulter, Pamela Geller, Debbie Schussel, Laura Ingraham, Andrea Tantrums, Andrew DimBart, Glennis The Menace and El Rushbo....
Dana is just one more malignant narcissist who has been given a microphone- just another right wing, hate talk radio shock jock whose ratings will soar for a week and then drop back down until the next vile and outrageous comment about something puts her nasty, vile self back into the headlines for a few days.
Her entire commentary on the issue is proof that Dana does not give a tinkers dam about those Marines, any other Marine or The Corps itself.
Dana is all about Dana.
Did you mean despicable?
I swear to god, I wish people would at least learn to communicate with at least a minimum level of education before expecting to be taken seriously.
It's this sort of mentality that promotes corporate crime...along with any other crime.
Well Dana, you look young enough -- get thee to thy nearest Armed Forces Recruiting Station, join up, and take the opportunity to do so!
Might as well, She's really not that much different.
That does not excuse it. The Afghans were already dead. Desecrating the bodies just feeds into the cycle.