Media Myth That Cutting Taxes Boosts Revenue Revived For 2012
CBS treated claims from Newt Gingrich and Mitt Romney that the tax cuts they have proposed would increase federal tax revenue as an open question. In fact, the myth that tax cuts increase revenues has been flatly rejected by economists across the ideological spectrum, including Romney adviser and former George W. Bush chief economist Gregory Mankiw and several others who served in the Bush administration.
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CBS Presents Question Of Tax Cuts Increasing Revenue As He Said/She Said
CBS Airs Gingrich Claim That By Lowering Taxes His Plan Will Increase Tax Revenues. From the January 25 edition of CBS Evening News:
DEAN REYNOLDS (correspondent): Gingrich is convinced that reducing or eliminating all these taxes will actually raise revenues for the government by stimulating investment and expanding business.
REYNOLDS [video clip]: If you lowered taxes, you're going to increase revenues?
GINGRICH [video clip]: Sure. Which we know worked. When we cut the capital gains tax in the 90s, the revenue went up dramatically. When we cut taxes in the 80s, we had an explosion of 16 million new jobs. [CBS, CBS Evening News, 1/25/12]
CBS' Pelley Points To Report That GOP Tax Plan Would Increase Deficit, Then Says The Candidates Argue Cutting Taxes Actually Increases Revenue. From the January 25 edition of CBS Evening News:
SCOTT PELLEY (anchor): We wondered if the federal deficit might increase under the Romney and Gingrich plans, so we talked to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington. It estimates that if the Bush tax cuts stay in place, the Romney plan would add $180 billion to the deficit in the year 2015. The Gingrich plan would add $850 billion that year. But remember, the candidates argue that cutting taxes would create so many businesses and jobs that ultimately there would be more tax revenue, not less. [CBS, CBS Evening News, 1/25/12]
For previous examples of the media promoting the myth that tax cuts increase tax revenues, see here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.
But Even Romney Adviser Mankiw Says Neither Capital Gains Nor Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenues ...
Bush CEA Chair Mankiw: Claim That Broad-Based Income Tax Cuts Increase Revenue Is Not "Credible," Capital Income Tax Cuts Also Don't Pay For Themselves. Economist Greg Mankiw, who also served as chair of the Bush Council of Economic Advisers (CEA), wrote on his blog on July 2, 2007:
I used the phrase "charlatans and cranks" in the first edition of my principles textbook to describe some of the economic advisers to Ronald Reagan, who told him that broad-based income tax cuts would have such large supply-side effects that the tax cuts would raise tax revenue. I did not find such a claim credible, based on the available evidence. I never have, and I still don't.
[...]
My other work has remained consistent with this view. In a paper on dynamic scoring, written while I was working at the White House, Matthew Weinzierl and I estimated that a broad-based income tax cut (applying to both capital and labor income) would recoup only about a quarter of the lost revenue through supply-side growth effects. For a cut in capital income taxes, the feedback is larger--about 50 percent--but still well under 100 percent. A chapter on dynamic scoring in the 2004 Economic Report of the President says about the the [sic] same thing. [Greg Mankiw, 7/2/07]
Mankiw's 2005 Paper: "In Almost All Cases, Tax Cuts Are Partly Self-Financing." In their 2005 paper, "Dynamic Scoring: A Back-of-the-Envelope Guide," Mankiw and Harvard University economist Matthew Weinzierl sought to answer the question, "To what extent does a tax cut pay for itself?" and concluded:
In all of the models considered here, the dynamic response of the economy to tax changes is too large to be ignored. In almost all cases, tax cuts are partly self-financing. This is especially true for cuts in capital income taxes. [Dynamic Scoring: A Back-of-the-Envelope Guide, 12/12/05]
Mankiw Is A "Top Economic Adviser" To Romney. On January 19, National Journal reported:
Romney issued a 59-point economic plan with fanfare last September. The platform contradicts landmark findings on monetary and housing policies published in 2011 by his top two economic advisers: Glenn Hubbard, the dean of Columbia University's business school; and N. Gregory Mankiw, a Harvard University professor and the author of the nation's most widely used college economics textbook. [National Journal, 1/19/12]
... As Do A Who's Who Of George W. Bush Administration Economic Officials ...
Bush-Appointed Federal Reserve Chair Bernanke: "I Don't Think That As A General Rule Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves." In his April 27, 2006, testimony before the Joint Economic Committee, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke had the following exchange:
SEN. JACK REED (D-RI): Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your testimony today. And just in line with the question about the effect of tax cuts, the former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors, Greg Mankiw, wrote in his macroeconomic textbook that there is no credible evidence that tax cuts pay for themselves and that an economists [sic] who makes such a claim is -- quote -- "a snake oil salesman who is trying to sell a miracle cure." Do you agree with that?
BERNANKE: I don't think that as a general rule tax cuts pay for themselves. What I have argued instead is that to the extent the tax cuts produce greater efficiency or greater growth, they will partially offset the losses in revenues. The degree to which that offset occurs depends on how well-designed the tax cut is. [Joint Economic Committee hearing, 4/27/06, emphasis added]
Bush Treasury Secretary Paulson: "As A General Rule, I Don't Believe That Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves." During his June 26, 2006, confirmation hearing before the Senate Finance Committee, Hank Paulson had the following exchange:
SEN. KENT CONRAD (D-ND): Let me just, before I ask you directly what your view is, show you the historical record here, what we have seen since 2000 in terms of the real revenues of the country.
Real revenues in 2000 were over $2 trillion and then we had the massive tax cuts in 2001. We were told that that would generate more revenue; at least some made that claim.
We can see what happens in the real world. We didn't get more revenue. And we had more large tax cuts in 2003. Again, we were told we'd get more revenue and, again, what we saw in the real world is it didn't happen.
I'd ask you, what is your view? Do you believe that tax cuts pay for themselves?
PAULSON: Senator, no. As a general rule, I don't believe that tax cuts pay for themselves.
But I have clearly seen -- and I think some of those people you've quoted would say the same thing -- I've seen that tax cuts change behavior. There's no doubt.
And there's no doubt, I can remember very clearly what it was like running a Wall Street firm in 2001. The bubble had burst. We were in a recession. We'd had the terrorist attack September 11th. And I watched the tax cuts add to consumer confidence, investor confidence, market confidence, CEO confidence, and I watched it change behavior. So there's no doubt about that. [Senate Finance Committee hearing, 6/26/06, via Nexis, emphasis added]
Bush Treasury Secretary Snow Reportedly Acknowledged Tax Reductions Don't Pay For Themselves. In May 2006, Knight-Ridder Newspapers reported of then-Treasury Secretary John Snow:
Treasury Secretary John Snow conceded Tuesday that the much-touted tax cuts for capital gains and dividend income don't drive today's strong economy. Asked by Knight Ridder if the tax reductions paid for themselves, Snow acknowledged that they don't. [Knight-Ridder, 5/21/06, via Nexis]
Bush OMB Director Nussle: "Some Say That [The Tax Cut] Was A Total Loss. Some Say They Totally Pay For Themselves. It's Neither Extreme." In a November 2007 editorial, The Washington Post reported:
TAX CUTS don't pay for themselves. This might sound like dog-bites-man news, except for one thing: This rather unremarkable statement comes from Jim Nussle, the new director of the Office of Management and Budget in an administration whose president is given to saying things like "You cut taxes, and the tax revenues increase" (February 2006) and "We have cut taxes, causing economic growth, which caused there to be this year alone 187 billion more tax dollars coming into the Treasury" (August 2007).
As Mr. Nussle acknowledges, "There are those including myself who ... in the passion of the argument have made statements -- I think I even made a statement once -- that tax relief did pay for itself." In fact, Mr. Nussle said yesterday at a breakfast with reporters sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor, "Some say that [the tax cut] was a total loss. Some say they totally pay for themselves. It's neither extreme." [The Washington Post, 11/15/07]
Bush CEA Chairman Lazear: "As A General Rule, We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves." During September 2006 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee, then-Council of Economic Advisers chairman Edward Lazear said:
Will the tax cuts pay for themselves? As a general rule, we do not think tax cuts pay for themselves. Certainly, the data presented above do not support this claim. Tax revenues in 2006 appear to have recovered to the level seen at this point in previous business cycles, but this does not make up for the lost revenue during 2003, 2004, and 2005. The tax cuts were a positive step and have contributed to the enhanced economic growth, additional jobs, higher real disposable income, and the low unemployment rates that we currently see today. Our goal is not to maximize the size of government, but to provide revenues to make sure that we can operate those programs that society deems necessary, while at the same time allowing the private sector to take full advantage of its growth potential. [Senate Budget Committee hearing, 9/28/06]
Bush Economic Adviser Samwick: "Tax Cuts Have Not Fueled Record Revenues." In a January 2007 blog post titled, "New Year's Plea," Andrew Samwick, former chief economist for George W. Bush's Council on Economic Advisers, wrote:
You [in the Bush administration] are smart people. You know that the tax cuts have not fueled record revenues. You know what it takes to establish causality. You know that the first order effect of cutting taxes is to lower tax revenues. We all agree that the ultimate reduction in tax revenues can be less than this first order effect, because lower tax rates encourage greater economic activity and thus expand the tax base. No thoughtful person believes that this possible offset more than compensated for the first effect for these tax cuts. Not a single one. [Vox Baby, 1/3/07]
Bush Economic Adviser Viard: "Federal Revenue Is Lower Today Than It Would Have Been Without The Tax Cuts." In an October 2006 article, The Washington Post reported:
"Federal revenue is lower today than it would have been without the tax cuts. There's really no dispute among economists about that," said Alan D. Viard, a former Bush White House economist now at the nonpartisan American Enterprise Institute. "It's logically possible" that a tax cut could spur sufficient economic growth to pay for itself, Viard said. "But there's no evidence that these tax cuts would come anywhere close to that." [The Washington Post, 10/17/06]
Bush Treasury Official Carroll: "We Do Not Think Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves." The Post further reported:
Robert Carroll, deputy assistant Treasury secretary for tax analysis, said neither the president nor anyone else in the administration is claiming that tax cuts alone produced the unexpected surge in revenue. "As a matter of principle, we do not think tax cuts pay for themselves," Carroll said.
But, he said, "we do think good tax policy can lead to important economic benefits. ... The size of the tax base is larger than it would have been without the tax relief." [The Washington Post, 10/17/06]
... And Other Economists From Across The Ideological Spectrum ...
Reagan Chief Economist Feldstein: "It's Not That You Get More Revenue By Lowering Tax Rates, It Is That You Don't Lose As Much." The New York Times reported on March 26, 2008:
While Mr. Laffer insists that tax revenue will rise when tax rates are cut, other supply-siders are less categorical. Martin Feldstein, a Harvard economist who was the first chairman of President Reagan's Council of Economic Advisers and now supports Senator McCain, estimates that a 10 percent tax cut would in fact reduce tax revenue -- but only by 3 to 5 percent.
"It is not that you get more revenue by lowering tax rates, it is that you don't lose as much," he said. [The New York Times, 3/26/08]
- Feldstein In 1986: "Hyperbole" That Reagan Tax Cut "Would Actually Increase Tax Revenue." In a 1986 paper, Feldstein wrote:
The "new" supply siders were much more extravagant in their claims. They projected rapid growth, dramatic increases in tax revenue, a sharp rise in saving, and a relatively painless reduction in inflation. The height of supply side hyperbole was the "Laffer curve" proposition that the tax cut would actually increase tax revenue because it would unleash an enormously depressed supply of effort.
[...]
I have no doubt that the loose talk of the supply side extremists gave fundamentally good policies a bad name and led to quantitative mistakes that not only contributed to subsequent budget deficits but that also made it more difficult to modify policy when those deficits became apparent. [Supply Side Economics: Old Truths And New Claims, January 1986]
Conservative Economist Holtz-Eakin: "No Serious Research Evidence" Suggests Tax Cuts Pay For Themselves." During a 2010 interview, American Action Forum president Douglas Holtz-Eakin, formerly Congressional Budget Office director and an adviser to the McCain 2008 presidential campaign, said:
I have never been in the camp that believes that quote 'tax cuts pay for themselves.' There is no serious research evidence to suggest that. The work we've done on what would happen if you were to sort of raise or lower taxes suggest about a 20 to 30 percent offset, depending on how you do it. And I think that's in the mainstream of the thought. [Think Progress, 8/5/10, emphasis in original]
Krugman: After Reagan's 1981 Tax Cuts, "Revenues Are Permanently Reduced Relative To What They Would Otherwise Have Been." In a July 2010 post on his New York Times blog, Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman wrote:
[T]he revenue track under Reagan looks a lot like the track under Bush: a drop in revenues, then a resumption of growth, but no return to the previous trend.
This is exactly what you would expect to see if supply-side economics were just plain wrong: revenues are permanently reduced relative to what they would otherwise have been. [The New York Times, 7/15/10]
Clinton Economist Frankel: Reagan and Bush Tax Cuts "Contributed To Record US Budget Deficits." Harvard economist and former Clinton economic adviser Jeffrey Frankel wrote in 2008:
The Laffer Proposition, while theoretically possible under certain conditions, does not apply to US income tax rates: a cut in those rates reduces revenue, precisely as common sense would indicate. As detailed in the paper, this was the outcome of the two big experiments of recent decades: the Reagan tax cuts of 1981-83 and the Bush tax cuts of 2001-03, both of which contributed to record US budget deficits. It is also the conclusion of more systematic scholarly studies based on more extensive data. Finally, it is the view of almost all professional economists, including the illustrious economic advisers to Presidents Reagan and Bush. So thorough is the discrediting of the Laffer Hypothesis, that many deny that these two presidents or their top officials could have ever believed such a thing. But abundant quotes suggest that they did. [Snake-Oil Tax Cuts, 9/8/08]
EPI: Bush Tax Cuts "Added $2.6 Trillion To The Public Debt Over 2001-10." In a September 26, 2011, article, Andrew Fieldhouse of the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) wrote:
A spending-cuts-only approach is regressive in that it forces the brunt of deficit reduction on the backs of poor and working families while ignoring a prime culprit of the budget deficit: the expensive, ineffective, and unfair Bush-era tax cuts. These top-heavy tax cuts added $2.6 trillion to the public debt over 2001-10 and will add $3.8 trillion to deficits over the next decade if fully continued. [EPI, 9/26/11]
Tax Foundation's Prante: "A Stretch" To Claim "Cutting Capital Gains Taxes Raises Tax Revenues." In an April 2008 blog post, the Tax Foundation's Gerald Prante responded as follows to then-ABC World News anchor Charles Gibson's statement that "history shows that when you drop the capital gains tax, the revenues go up":
Gibson's implying that cutting capital gains taxes raises tax revenues by the mere time series correlation he cited was a stretch. Much of the short-run response to changes in the capital gains tax rate are for tax timing purposes. This is a well-known fact, and it is why CBO projects a huge spike in capital gains collections in 2010 (the last year of the scheduled low 15% rate on long-term gains) and thereby also a large decline in 2011 (when the rate on long-term gains is scheduled to revert to 20%) under current law. There is no doubt some revenue feedback will occur over the long-run from lower capital gains tax rates spurring investment, but most estimates would say that we are currently on the left side of the Laffer Curve with respect to capital gains. [Tax Foundation's Tax Policy Blog, 4/17/08]
Bartlett: Revenue Has Been Historically Low Because "Taxes Were Cut In 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2006." In a July 26, 2011, New York Times blog post, Bruce Bartlett, former policy adviser to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, wrote:
In a previous post, I noted that federal taxes as a share of gross domestic product were at their lowest level in generations. The Congressional Budget Office expects revenue to be just 14.8 percent of G.D.P. this year; the last year it was lower was 1950, when revenue amounted to 14.4 percent of G.D.P.
But revenue has been below 15 percent of G.D.P. since 2009, and the last time we had three years in a row when revenue as a share of G.D.P. was that low was 1941 to 1943.
Revenue has averaged 18 percent of G.D.P. since 1970 and a little more than that in the postwar era. At a similar stage in previous business cycles, two years past the trough, revenue was considerably higher: 18 percent of G.D.P. in 1977 after the 1973-75 recession; 17.3 percent of G.D.P. in 1984 after the 1981-82 recession, and 17.5 percent of G.D.P. in 1993 after the 1990-91 recession. Revenue was markedly lower, however, at this point after the 2001 recession and was just 16.2 percent of G.D.P. in 2003.
The reason, of course, is that taxes were cut in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2006. [The New York Times, 7/26/11]
... And Media Outlets And Fact-Checkers
Time: "Tax Cuts Don't Boost Revenues." In a December 2007 article titled, "Tax Cuts Don't Boost Revenues," Time magazine asserted that "economists agree" that the idea that tax cuts raise revenues is "false." From the article:
If there's one thing that Republican politicians agree on, it's that slashing taxes brings the government more money. "You cut taxes, and the tax revenues increase," President Bush said in a speech last year. Keeping taxes low, Vice President Dick Cheney explained in a recent interview, "does produce more revenue for the Federal Government." Presidential candidate John McCain declared in March that "tax cuts ... as we all know, increase revenues." His rival Rudy Giuliani couldn't agree more. "I know that reducing taxes produces more revenues," he intones in a new TV ad.
If there's one thing that economists agree on, it's that these claims are false. We're not talking just ivory-tower lefties. Virtually every economics Ph.D. who has worked in a prominent role in the Bush Administration acknowledges that the tax cuts enacted during the past six years have not paid for themselves--and were never intended to. Harvard professor Greg Mankiw, chairman of Bush's Council of Economic Advisers from 2003 to 2005, even devotes a section of his best-selling economics textbook to debunking the claim that tax cuts increase revenues. [Time, 12/6/07]
The Economist: "No Serious Economist Believes Mr Bush's Tax Cuts Will Pay For Themselves." A January 2006 Economist editorial stated:
A surprising rise in tax revenue last year has pushed this chutzpah even further. Mr Bush last week implied that the supply-side fantasy might hold after all: tax cuts do pay for themselves. "There's a mindset in Washington that says, you cut the taxes, we're going to have less money to spend," he noted contemptuously, before claiming that recent experience suggested otherwise.
Even by the standards of political boosterism, this is extraordinary. No serious economist believes Mr Bush's tax cuts will pay for themselves. A recent study from the Congressional Budget Office suggested that, after ten years, up to one-third of the cost of a 10% cut in income taxes can be recouped from higher economic growth. That fraction may be higher for cuts in taxes on capital alone. But it is nowhere near 100%. [The Economist, 1/12/06]
FactCheck.org: "Revenues Would Have Been Even Higher Without [The Bush Tax Cuts]." FactCheck.org concluded on June 11, 2007, that "it is clear" the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 "did not 'increase revenues'" as Sen. John McCain had claimed. The post further stated:
The Congressional Budget Office, the Treasury Department, the Joint Committee on Taxation, the White House's Council of Economic Advisers and a former Bush administration economist all say that tax cuts lead to revenues that are lower than they otherwise would have been -- even if they spur some economic growth. [FactCheck.org, 6/11/07]

















However a bunch of non-economists (Bolling, F&F etc) will continue to push this lie to millions of sponges sucking up any old crap.
Apologies to any teachers.
Pelley ends the the segment by saying, after the statements from the Tax Policy Center show that both Romney's and Gingrich's tax plans would increase the deficit, "But remember, the candidates argue that cutting taxes would create so many businesses and jobs, that, ultimately, there would be more tax revenue, not less."
Unless you plan on arguing that CBS then went and fact-checked that claim, too, then they are leaving the question open, just as MMfA claims they did.
When a journalist knows that something if a fact and something is a lie, it's their job to point out the lie and to present the facts. If this were an opinion, if it hadn't been proven multiple times that the Laffer Curve is a pernicious lie, then an evenhanded presentation of both sides' arguments would be warranted. But this isn't opinion. The Laffer Curve has been debunked by painful experience. Hence the objection.
i stopped reading your drivel right there because i wanted you to read this?
i know you elitist liberals think you're smarter than everyone else, but i mean really...
That's not how question marks are use, jimmy?
And just for say, I might point out that last line that you probably inadvertently included is what makes this a he said/she said piece. " But remember, the candidates argue that cutting taxes would create so many businesses and jobs that ultimately there would be more tax revenue, not less."
That's the lie you idiots have been using to sell supply-side economics for over 40 years now. It's the lie that's central to Jude Wanniskis WSJ columns on the subject. It's the lie that was central to Reagan's tax policy. It's the lie that was central to Bush's tax policy. IT'S A LIE. And presenting it as a mitigating element at the end of a piece makes it a huge part of the story.
In a college journalism course, if you'd ever attended college, you would have learned that people tend to only remember the first and the last thing you tell them. All the stuff in the middle tends to fade away. I know this. Most people in journalism know this. I guarantee you that the writers at CBS know this.
more cake.
At least you took n'est-ce pas's advice to just reply with some random and stupid.
If the CBS report had been on claims that the Earth was flat and it was reported that way they would have been laughed off the air.
The notion that decreasing taxes increases revenue is even more absurd than the notion that the Earth is flat. Not only has it been empirically debunked repeatedly since the Great Depression, but it is also inherently contradictory.
The reporting of politicians who propose this nonsense should be along the line of "these people are spouting rubbish". It should not be dignified with the status of theory - let alone policy.
jimmy replied
I guess what jimmy is saying is that he refuses to believe that there are any economists who have claimed reducing taxes increases revenue.
Or maybe he's saying something else entirely. With jimmy, you never really know.
A real journalist would have pointed out that what the candidates claim has never in fact happened in real life. Not one time. Ever.
SO how does that square with the fact there were more unemployed when Bush jn left office (7.4%) than when he started (4%)?
Not only do we think it, science seems to prove it!
When I sent it to my mom, her reply was:
"Add in the other statistic that liberals are less likely to procreate and the prospect becomes terrifying."
Turns out you failed at that one, too.
Essentially, distributing food stamps in the manner you suggest is an accross the board tax cut....a tax cut that affects lower and middle income taxpayers more than the wealthy. Sort of like a payroll tax cut that went into effect Jan 1 2011...and was recently extended.
Which is the opposite of all the tax cuts proposed by the republicans. Capital gain tax cuts are tax cuts for the wealthy...and do nothing to stimulate the economy.
And lets face it, Mitt Romney was so embarrased that his tax rate was so low that he was afraid to release his tax returns. Where we could see, plain as day, what a multi millionaire really pays in taxes. I'll say it again...14% is a joke. Most employees' combined social sec/medicare (employee and employer portion) is almost 14%..and thats before any income tax.
Did you cash yours?
Won't answer the question huh punk?
How so?
You are a liar, and you really ARE a punk
If anyone gives you theirs you are both breaking the law.
However, the thread itself is about the claim being made by both candidates that cutting taxes increases revenue. The logical extrapolation from such a comment could then be that, by the inverse ratio property, zero taxes results in infinite growth.
Now, it could be argued that that isn't true, but the conjecture is based on actual statements by actual people.
Jimmy, on the other hand, just makes sh*t up and pretends someone said it in order to counter a point no one made. Then, once someone responds to his made-up point, he then uses that rebuttal to retroactively reinforce the idea that someone else made the comment he made up. That then becomes the basis for his entire argument.
No you were lying and being the brainwashed moron we all know you are
See folks, this is probably an actual representation of the entire breadth of tommy's understanding of this subject. He really thinks that what advocates for Keynsian economics are saying is that we should deficit spend in good times and in bad because deficit spending is good for the economy. Seriously, he's not a parody troll, no matter how ridiculous he generally appears.
Food stamps are bad stimulus because of the industry they stimulate. Food prices are about as low as they can go in the United States, the supply of food more than meets demand. Increased spending in the agriculture industry is likely to be converted into profits rather than jobs. Profit that won't be reinvested in agricultural jobs.
1) Every dollar of food stamps is NOT a dollar added to the deficit. Taxes pay for food stamps.
2) Food prices are NOT as low as they can go. Been to the grocery lately?
3) Food stamps probably increase the DEMAND for food, not the supply.
4) Do you even know what food stamps are? Or supply/demand theory?
2) Speaking in terms of what the market will allow, food prices are basically as low as they can go. As a % of disposable income Americans spend very little on food.
3) I never suggested otherwise. The ratio to meet increased demand with increased supply takes very little investment from farmers though. Usually there is a lag because farming is seasonal and it takes 3-6 months from crop maturity.
4) I have no doubt you know what food stamps are, but supply/demand theory I'm a bit dubious.
So, you're saying these are good times? Wow, you're really off track on your talking points. There isn't a single republican office holder who would agree with your characterization of our current economy as "good times."
Pay attention to the wording of his insults. It's as close as it gets to reading his mind.
LIE.
and i eat more cake.
WTF? Did I say you said only liberals? I pointed to two prominent examples of it being done on your side. In fact by a person who's whole existence is dedicated to fu(king with the language so a-holes like you will feel better about their pathetic lives.
Try again in english?
"your anger" > WTF?, LIE.
"back alley cussing > a-hole, a-holes, fu(king, fu(ktard.
need i go on?
We know. You always do round this time. Not everyone is as stupid as you.
You really are a punk james
Jimmy has really taken n'est-ce pas's advice to say random and stupid things to heart.
You are a LIAR. While everyone tries to frame the debate cons are MUCH better at it and put far MORE effort and resources in it. Why do you lie so much. Do you think it would even be POSSIBLE for you to go through at least ONE thread which you participate in without LYING?
He always is. The methods he chooses to use sometimes vary, but he was really threatened by this thread, and desperately wanted to derail the conversation away from the actual topic. That's why I repeatedly posted the first paragraph. That successfully stopped him in his tracks, but then others continued to reply to him, and so he won - he stopped the debate that should have been about whether or not cutting taxes raises revenue.
The idea that "jamesB" is stupid? A non-starter, really. He pretends that he's stupid. He purposely makes bad, illogical arguments to draw people in to respond to him. He's actually pretty darn smart, as he has a great ability to pull just the right phrase out of context, and he parses words like an expert.
And everyone who follows him down the road makes him happier and happier.
He's a troll. He wants replies like this. He wants to eventually be called a fu(ktard and be mocked, so long as it keeps people from talking about the topic that we should be talking about.
He "claims" what he claims because he knows it will inflame others. Remember the definition of a troll from the Urban dictionary?
Oh...and I don't give a flying fu(k about your admonishments to not reply to the troll.
You are a LIAR. Fairness means less to you than the temperature on Titan. You care NOTHING about fairness. You care only about money and profit. You would gladly cheer skewering and cooking children or starving them to death if it saved you a dime on your taxes or made a corporation a dozen sheckels. You are among the most disgusting humans alive. Everytime you say ANYTHING about liberals it is almost without exception an outright lie. You said that is how liberals are wired. You didnt do that to be fair you did that because you LOVE to tell lies. You are pathetic and braindead
You are a liar and you are FAR too stupid to know anything about liberals including how we are wired. You are too stupid to know what we think or what we want or anything else Rush didnt tell you to think.
Government DOES make investments. IN SOCIETY. I am sorry you were too stupid to understand this. Food stamps do have a stimulus effect. Those things are pure fact. It is too bad they blow your ignorant Randinista brainwashing out the window. My GOD but you are stupid
Then what was Sarah Palin going on about last year, when she said that food prices were skyrocketing? I mean, Glenn Beck predicting food riots is one thing, but, some prominent repubicans were screaming about food prices just a few weeks ago. Can't you trolls stick to some consistent talking points?
Remember bub, you brought up SP and GB, not me.
-spirit
-highly
That's funny, seeing as how I'm only on here a handful of times each month at most. At least you can recognize my brilliance, pop, maybe you're not completely clueless after all.
Interesting story.
Woman, man, it doesn't matter, better than calling you an it.
You are a LIAR. No one said foodstamps would jumpstart the economy, they just pointed out it had a stimulus effect. My GOD but you are stupid. That is along with your propensity for constant lying
Once network news rooms started to have to answer for their ratings, objective journalism went out the window. This is why there are practically no real journalists on television today.
Unless you don't understand what you wrote, you claimed that they reported both sides. I just realized, you are not a liar. You are not stupid. You are completely psychotic. You don't even live in your own reality.
They want claims like that that rightwingers make to not be treated as open questions, which is what CBS didn't successfully do here.
How many times will you need to see this paragraph before you acknowledge it?
Don't answer - we already know. You can't acknowledge this paragraph.
Please stop feeding the troll.
you've just cemented what i've suspected all along. discussions on this website are above your pay grade if you post something as idiotic as what you did above. find a website where your cussing ability garners you more than mocking laughter, which is what you get from me.
..after this... Really?
See numbnuts, the issue here is a lie vs. truth. Sad pathetic tommmy.
It is exactly what you said.
don't worry, OB. He won't. Especially not with over 4 hours until quitting time.
"Whine" really? You are such a pos a-hole.
Really? Pathetic.
...says the silly person who ends almost every comment with "wise up", thinking that automatically makes his observations "wise".
You're a leftist radical, just not a raving one?
You see, we don't crow about our grammatical prowess, we just think your complete ignorance of the language I'm sure you grew up speaking is comical, and we like to point out that you don't say what you think you say.
Language isn't an interpretive art, it's a concrete set of guidelines for communicating thoughts.
If you're accurately portraying your thoughts with the written word, your cerebellum must resemble a passage written by Hunter Thompson on mescaline.
"uninformed and pedestrian." tommy doesn't really know what that means, but he saw someone smarter than him use it and so he figured it would work here.
"over estimated" yeah, that's "overestimated," tommy.
"don't reach beyond that" from the guy who considers it the height of devestating ripostes to say "grow up" or "wise up" when he thinks he's driven home a point.
Seriously, tommy, you're a peach. Keep on bringing the stupid.
Jimmy is still trying to figure out how people who walk on the sidewalks are uninformed, but he knows that we used it against him once, so it must be a word that can be used insultingly. Therefore, he uses it.
It's like a guy who can't quite figure out why every time he flips the switch on the wall, the room gets darker. He doesn't know that the two actions are connected; he just thinks it's a really weird coincidence.
james never changes his tactics though by now he has to concede they're simply not drawing the dividends he designed them to do. Someday he may try another approach but for now he's just too worn down to devise any.
The phone rings. james sighs. Someday he'll run his own business and we'll never hear from him again.
You are a liar a punk and a moron. You are too stupid to judge what someone else understands and forget about EVER crowing about winning debate since that is NEVER going to happen. Four year olds would rip you to shreds you are stupid beyond human levels of comprehension
He made a rebuttal. You are too stupid to understand it. Keep pretending that having the Flat Earth society on as the counterpoint to actual geologists saying the Earth is a sphere is balanced. That is the POINT of this kind of propaganda. YOU are stupid enough to buy into it. You are stupid beyond belief. Stop pretending there is something wrong with us because we are NOT as stupid as you
It's like he's spent the better part of the past year or so collecting all the insulting and damaging things we've said to him, and he's thought to himself, "I'm going to say these things right back to them lol and see how they like it!"
Of course, since he doesn't understand the written word--or audio, it seems--he doesn't quite know the most fitting instances to use them in.
That's why, when you say something like, "It's a proven fact that [insert factual statement here]", he calls you a sheep for believing everything you read.
Or why, when you ask him a simple question about what he thinks, he calls you a baby for not agreeing with him.
It's quite remarkable. I've never been able to observe someone of his capacities at such great length before.
You are a LIAR and a punk. You can keep pretending all day that this is fair or balanced but it isnt. Rational adults know this. Brainwashed punks like you just want to make excuses for propganda. You are disgusting
Simple, basic and easy to understand, but "jamesB" pretends he doesn't get it!
Well, it's not.
Fair and balanced? This would have been fair and balanced:
"Governor Romney and Speaker Gingrich each assert that their proposed tax cuts will increase revenue rather than reduce it, an idea first advanced and popularized by economist Arthur Laffer in the 1980s. However, virtualy no other economist, including several who served in the Bush Administration, believes that to be true, some using terms like "cranks and charlatans" to describe those who do. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center agrees with that consensus, and advised us that both men's plans, and particularly Speaker Gingrich's, would significantly reduce revenues and increase the deficit.
When you contradict nonpartisan information to reinforce partisan information, that is called bias.
Very well posted, Imbecile. However, I doubt that jamesB is ever going to fully confront the truth of the matter in this case. Keep on trying, though, it's great fun to read!
>^o.-^<
If only there were some way we could get those words published in some form, and in some sort of organizational format, like alphabetically, so we could then present to jimmy a comprehensive list of all the words he doesn't understand. And since we're so altruistic, maybe we could help ol' jimmy out by supplying the meanings of those words for him in that bound list.
If only....
fu(ktard. perhaps you should have your memory tested.
all that panty twisting for nothing.
i can't eat any more cake.
If I didn't see the name at the top, I would have sworn it was boxy.
I wonder if riverdog will be here in about an hour or so to "stick up for" jimmy.
See what I did there? Same thing Pelley and CBS did. Do you get it now?
LOL. Nicely done. Of course, you know he doesn't get it, and in fact is now convinced that you think the moon is made of cheese and will call you an idiot based upon that.
He will never get it. Not because he is too stupid to understand, though he is incredibly stupid, but because he is COMITTED to not understanding
if i heard that i would figure the gop candidates are spinning their political agenda as usual, and nasa is a far better nonpartisan source. slam dunk. and i would appreciate whatever media outlet had enough integrity not to just offer up another politically motivated agenda from a competing candidate, but went directly to a nonpartisan source for accuracy. thumbs up there.
i think the disconnect for liberals is they think the public is so just so damn stupid that they aren't equipped to make these judgments on their own, they need your help, and mmfa's help. no, we don't.
Do you see how people might see that as a little convenient, perhaps?
Reporting what people need to know is the media's job. It's not a politician's job to talk about things that aren't their fault as if they are. There's no "standard" at work there. Your viewpoint would have a Democratic president associating himself with something unpopular with the public for no good reason, while the media gives credence to partisan nonsense because everyone should know better on their own.
That's either wildly dishonest or moronic.
If you weren't responsible for a downside, would you mention it? Why would it even occur to you to do so? You're suggesting that the thought process is something like "OK corporations might raise prices in order to maintain the profit margin they increased by using overseas labor, and I have to mention that because some random person naively expects politicians to cite negative effects regardless of causation or lack of personal responsibility...but I won't!" That is truly nefarious, indeed.
incredible.
And if you don't think I answered it, you aren't paying attention.
I want you to answer this in particular, along with the rest of the post which you conveniently ignored:
My question is relevant regardless because you are accountable for what you say. Don't suggest you aren't, please, even if you did so unwittingly.
Less than convincing, to put it mildly.
You aren't special. You want answers, you give answers. That's fair, and I'm being much more polite to you than your behavior warrants. Now please, answer the question, since you have no excuses to not do so.
Let's at least have it down on record that you don't think you're accountable for your comments, since you refuse to answer for what you say. And since your distraction response has no bearing on the matter, I'd appreciate it if you refrained from pretending otherwise.
because you lied. and that corner has you so boxed in you're now looking for advice from highlygnatlike.
can you possibly get any more desperate than that? :)
you're a paranoid mess.
You should attempt to make an argument defending yourself before attacking others. You're engaging in Ad Hominem fallacies otherwise.
: /
That should clarify, as if it was necessary.
If logic were required, you'd have nailed him with your first reply. If honesty were required, he'd have conceded your points. If truth meant anything to him he'd stop denying it. The point he's here to rabble-rouse. The debates are merely the vehicle through which to transfer his bad mood to you. You're arguing with someone whose raison d'etre is to blow off the steam he collects with his lousy job. Agreeing with you about anything wouldn't accomplish that.
Why do you think he's never here when not at work? Is that the sign of someone actually engaged in the subject matter or merely interested in wasting time because he can't stand what he does for his living?
That would be the fair thing to do, obviously. Do you want to explain to me why your questions are obligatory and mine aren't? Are you privileged or something? If you have a rationale for your behavior, I'd love to hear it.
then this:
??
Again, can you explain what makes you so special that others have to answer your questions but you don't have to answer theirs? It seems a little egotistical at best. Alternately, or additionally, you could just answer the question at long last.
You're not special. The same rules you apply to others apply to you as well.
you lied. own it and stop looking like an idiot.
I'm simply refusing to give in to your unreasonable demands. There's nothing wrong with that, no matter how many times you foolishly accuse me of dishonesty.
Try picturing james' comments like that. What do you do with such a mess? Do you really try to untangle it?
Impasse: it's where you are.
All I'm doing is asking you to display some sort of rationality. Make an argument for something. What you've been doing is just stomping your feet because I'm not doing what you want, without giving me the slightest reason to do so. It's a distraction, because your remarks made no sense, and it seems like you said something inconsistent with what you said yesterday. I'm not giving in to unreasonable demands for that or whatever your reason may be. Period. That doesn't require even the smallest percentage of the explanation I've provided already.
enjoy the sheets. :)
That's funny. Accusations regarding less-than-crucial matters are constantly flung during debates. But Gingrich, who never gives, went with a defense more flimsy than had he simply copped to his sneaky behavior. And he'd certainly have come off as less a buffoon had he admitted he'd been had.
As for Blitzer (not normally the smartest guy in the room) rather than question Gingrich's pathetic excuse, just let it sit there, unchallenged. Why would he have taken it further? Why would he have lent it credibility?
james is our would-be Gingrich. james' heroes are Atwater and Rove. Understand that, and you may find yourself reevaluating how to respond to him. Let his astonishing dishonesty speak for itself.
Funny thing is if james were to "give," so to speak, to confess that this place is no more and no less than an outlet for the tension he accumulates from his stinky job, we liberals would rush to comfort and console us. The problem is that james, who, for all of his self-contradictory nonsense, really is a con. And you know what that means: lacking the capacity for compassion, it would never occur to him to seek it.
So he'll play tough guy pest as long as there are takers and never learn that the reason he comes home more aggravated than he left is because it doesn't work.
By the way, the phrase "common sense" is a catch-all for, "You're dumb because you think -- or don't think -- like me." Thanks for playing, tommy.
GOD but you are stupid. All the crow you have eaten today would choke a goat but with your incredible stupidity you stubbornly PRETEND it is cake
You MORON you are eating crow you are just so stupid you THINK it is cake
GOD but you are stupid. The issue isnt whether the report eviscerated them or not THAT is subjective but the INDISPUTABLE fact that the reporter did not TREAT it as if it had. How stupid are you trying to be today?
AGAIN you are far too stupid to know what we think or what we want. What I would want is for them to treat nonsense like this as what it is NONSENSE
NO not lightly. NO credible economists believe this. Even Bushs own economic experts WHILE ADVOCATING TAX CUTS believed, and they admitted this, that tax cuts even pay for themselves much less increase revenue. THAT is the point. It is nonsense to pretend this is a he said she said issue. It is not. Only brainwashed Randinistas still try to sell this nonsense
Good job, jimmy!
Now, what sound does the cow make?
says jimmy, after saying this:
and this:
and this:
and this:
You spend an awful lot of time focusing on things that don't interest you, jimmy.
It is enough for rational adults to understand. The fact you are one of the stupidest living beings alive is not OUR problem. That you cannot understand ANYTHING is your sad fate. You will always be this stupid james it is just that simple
Reagan cut taxes in the '80s and the debt soared.
Bush 43 cut taxes in the 2000s and the debt soared.
Tax cuts don't spur growth, they spur debt financing. Case closed.
Randy
Now, he thinks he's made sense of it, and our inability to untangle his nonsense only feeds his frustration, which impels him to start to devolve in his interactions with us.
But, since he doesn't want to admit that he doesn't grasp these concepts, he digs in, doubles down, and becomes even more stubborn in his defenses.
This is why, as you so comically put it, he breathes a sigh of relief when the phone rings or when it's quitting time. It's his only respite from the doubts that swirl throughout his head most of the day.
It's a classic vicious circle, and those who refuse to learn from it are doomed to repeat it until they collapse - or, in his case, get a better job.
Someone who refuses to prop up and defend his OWN positions/definitions by clarifying them (or arguing for them) and simply saying "if that's what you want it to be then so be it". Isn't here for ANY sort of discussion regardless of what else that person posts.
Someone who is would try to define their position, clarify it and argue for it. This forms a direction and flow in discussion, opponents would know what to object to and why (or if it's even relevant) and proponents would know what points to reinforce and defend.
NOT clarifying things (something he is infamous for) is almost certainly a recipe for muddling up everything, and I'd be damned if he doesn't know that.
It's all deliberate.