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Conservative Media Recklessly Distort Volt Safety

January 27, 2012 2:28 pm ET — 27 Comments

Conservative media have misrepresented the results of Chevy Volt crash tests, claiming the batteries "blow up" and are a "fire trap," and suggesting that fires have occurred spontaneously during use. In fact, fires only occurred after crash tests and regulators concluded an inquiry after finding that Volts are just as safe as conventional cars.

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Regulators Concluded Inquiry After Finding Volts Are Just As Safe As Conventional Cars

Battery Fire Happened Weeks After Pole Crash Test And Rollover Test. From the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's description of the test:

During an NCAP [New Car Assessment Program] oblique side pole impact test conducted by NHTSA in May 2011, the pole struck and deformed the sill plate under the driver's door at a location where there is a structural member. The lateral member displaced inward, pierced the HV battery enclosure and battery, and caused a battery coolant leak. Thereafter, the Agency conducted a rollover test (the rollover test consists of four 90-degree rotate-and-hold movements about the vehicle's longitudinal axis). In that test, the HV battery and electronics were exposed to coolant that leaked as a result of the crash. The vehicle fire that occurred three weeks later and the additional testing NHTSA conducted are discussed in a report titled "2011 Chevrolet Volt Battery Fire Incident Report" a copy of which is available in the public file. The report indicates that intrusion induced coolant leakage, and subsequent rollover that saturates electronic components, were the only test conditions which resulted in a subject vehicle HV battery fire. [NHTSA, 1/26/12]

CNN: "No Fires Were Reported In Cars That People Were Actually Driving." CNN's Erin Burnett made clear that fires had only occurred in crash tests, not real-life scenarios:

ERIN BURNETT: Investigators did not find a safety defect. They also supported GM's fix, which reinforces the structure surrounding the battery. No fires were reported in cars that people were actually driving. This came from crash tests. [CNN, Out Front with Erin Burnett, 1/20/12]

NHTSA Did Not Drain Battery After Crash, As GM Protocols Require. From an Associated Press report:

General Motors spokesman Greg Martin said the test did not follow procedures developed by GM engineers for handling the Volt after a crash. The engineers tested the Volt's battery pack for more than 300,000 hours to come up with the procedures, which include discharge and disposal of the battery pack, he said.

"Had those protocols been followed after this test, this incident would not have occurred," he said.

[...]

After the crash test, NHTSA found a coolant leak and moved the damaged Volt to a back lot, where it was exposed to the elements, said Rob Peterson, a GM spokesman who specializes in electric cars. Exposure to the weather caused the coolant to crystalize, and that, combined with the remaining charge in the battery, were factors, he said.

NHTSA did not drain the battery of energy as called for under GM's crash procedures. But at the time, GM had not told the agency of its protocols, Peterson said. NHTSA normally drains fuel from gasoline-powered cars after crash tests, he said. [Associated Press, 11/11/11, via MSNBC.com]

GM Knows Via OnStar About Any Crash Significant Enough To Compromise The Battery. The Detroit Free Press reported:

Chevrolet dealers have sold about 6,000 Volts, all of which are equipped with the OnStar emergency notification system, said GM spokesman Greg Martin.

"There have been no reports of comparable incidences in the field," GM said in a statement. "With Onstar, GM knows in real time about any crash significant enough to potentially compromise battery integrity."

Since July, GM has implemented a process with first responders that includes depowering of the battery after a severe crash. [Detroit Free Press, 11/26/11]

GM Provided A Fix To Volt Owners. Automotive News reported:

The agency [NHTSA] said that modifications intended to reinforce the Volt's 435-pound lithium-ion battery pack that General Motors announced on Jan. 5 should "reduce the potential" of the pack catching fire in the days or weeks following a crash.

[...]

Company executives [at GM] say the voluntary fix will make the car "safer" by reinforcing the steel surrounding the battery pack to prevent it from being punctured during a crash. It also will add a sensor to the battery pack to monitor coolant leaks.
GM is asking its 8,000 Volt customers to visit their Chevy dealership to have the work done. Dealers will be ready to perform the work starting in February, GM said. [Automotive News, 1/20/12]

NHTSA Concluded Investigation After Finding "No Discernible Defect Trend." Wired's Autopia blog reported:

Federal regulators have closed their investigation into the Chevrolet Volt, saying they are satisfied with the steps General Motors has taken to protect the car's lithium-ion battery and minimize the risk of a fire in the days and weeks after a severe crash.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration posted an explanation and summary of its inquiry on Friday and announced the conclusion of the investigation it launched Nov. 25.

"The agency's investigation has concluded that no discernible defect trend exists and that the vehicle modifications recently developed by General Motors reduce the potential for battery intrusion resulting from side impacts," the feds said in a statement.

The statement adds, "Based on the available data, NHTSA does not believe that Chevy Volts or other electric vehicles pose a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles."

The findings vindicate General Motors, which always argued the Chevrolet Volt is safe, and electric vehicle advocates who argued that the inquiry was much ado about very little. [Wired, Autopia, 1/20/12]

Auto Analyst: "The Fire Concerns Are More Media Hype Than Problem ... The Volt Is Very Safe." The Washington Times reported:

Peter DeLorenzo, a Detroit-based auto analyst who has driven the vehicle, says the fire concerns are more media hype than problem for GM.

"Let's be realistic. These battery fires happened after severe crashes; it's not fender benders," Mr. DeLorenzo said. "It has nothing to do with Volts spontaneously combusting somewhere. Unfortunately, in this 24/7 instant-media-connection era we live in, all people will take away is Volts catching fire. They don't read beyond that. I think the Volt is very safe, and the technology is very safe." [The Washington Times, 12/4/11]

Around 250,000 Conventional Cars Catch Fire In Real-Life Every Year. Brad Plumer wrote on The Washington Post's WonkBlog:

[E]lectric cars have recently had to endure panicky headlines over safety, after three separate Volt batteries caught fire in crash tests. On the technical merits, this wasn't a huge worry: The batteries caught fire days or weeks after extreme crash testing in the laboratory, and even then the fires only broke out because post-crash procedures weren't followed. As MSNBC's Dan Carney snarks, "The lesson here is to get out of a crashed car within a few days, and be sure to turn off the lights when exiting." There was also the little-noted fact that, as government statistics show (PDF), some 250,000 gas-powered vehicles catch fire in real-life settings every year. [Washington Post's WonkBlog, 1/9/12]

Conservative Media: The Volt Is "Killing People" By "Catching Fire"

O'Reilly And Dobbs Suggest Volts Spontaneously "Catch Fire." On The O'Reilly Factor, Lou Dobbs said the Volt "doesn't work" because "it doesn't go fast and go far on electricity. What happens is it catches fire ... This is considered a negative when we're trying to move an automobile." O'Reilly then repeatedly said that the Volts "catch fire" without mentioning that the fire only happened during a crash test. [Fox News, The O'Reilly Factor, 1/6/12]

Fox's Cavuto: Electric Car Owners Are "Killing People With Batteries That Blow Up." On Neil Cavuto's Fox Business show, he said the Volt is "a plug-in that blows up. The battery heats up. It's killing people. It's maiming them. Children are afraid. Animals avoid it. Puppies don't want to go anywhere near it." Cavuto later criticized electric car owners for "killing people with batteries that blow up." [Fox Business, Cavuto, 12/8/11, via Nexis]

BigGovernment: Volt "Has A Tendency To Catch On Fire While Sitting In The Garages" Of Its Owners. From a post at Andrew Breitbart's BigGovernment.com:

To date, Obama has spent approximately $3,000,000,000.00 subsidizing Volts. And what have the American people gotten in return? A car that only a handful of people want and that has a tendency to catch on fire while sitting in the garages of the few purchasers Obama's been able to scrounge up. [BigGovernment, 12/22/11]

Fox Business Guest Suggests Volts "Blow Up" In Real-Life. From Fox Business' The Willis Report:

MATT MCCALL, PENN FINANCIAL: Nobody's buying these Volts! That's the only good thing. You know, six people had their engine blow up because only six people bought the darn Volt. [Fox Business, The Willis Report, 12/7/11]

Gateway Pundit Blog: Volt Is A "Fire Trap." In a blog post at Gateway Pundit titled "Volt Fire Trap Is WORST Product Of The Year," Andrea Ryan wrote, "Guess what?  If it catches fire it's probably not going to sell well." Ryan then posted this picture of a car on fire -- presumably a conventional car that caught on fire in real-life conditions:

[Gateway Pundit, 1/4/12]

Some Mainstream Outlets Have Also Misled On Crash Test Fires

Wash. Post Editorial Misled Readers About Crash Test Fires. In a recent editorial, The Washington Post said that "the Volt brand is suffering from news that some of its batteries burst into flames after government road tests." However, the fires occurred after crash tests. [Media Matters, 1/5/12]

CBS: "Fires Have Been Breaking Out In" Chevy Volts. In a December 7 news brief, CBS suggested that the fires were spontaneously breaking out or had been observed in real-life:

ASHLEY MORRISON: Well, GM thinks it knows-- knows why fires have been breaking out in its electric Chevy Volts. The auto makers say coolant leaks may be to blame for causing electrical shorts. The government is investigating, but the Transportation Department says the vehicle is safe to drive. GM is offering refunds to dissatisfied customers. [CBS, CBS Morning News, 12/7/11, via Nexis]

Conservative Media Baselessly Accuse Regulators Of "Favoritism"

House Republicans Accuse Regulators Of Hiding Fire For Months For Political Reasons. The New York Times reported: "House Republicans accused the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration on Wednesday of trying to keep secret a battery fire in a Chevy Volt out of fear of damaging the value of the government's investment in the car's manufacturer, General Motors, and jeopardizing President Obama's re-election prospects." [New York Times, 1/25/12]

Fox's Asman: "Call Us Conspiratorial, But" NHTSA "Backed Off" Volt Investigation Due To "Favoritism." On his Fox Business show, David Asman said:

ASMAN: You might think a company coming out of bankruptcy would want to reconsider pushing something nobody wants, but GM is fully committed to continuing with the Volt line. Why? Call us conspiratorial, but we still think there' a government connection. Just look at the way that the Chevy Volt skirted by regulators over its battery fires. U.S. federal safety inspectors just decided to drop its investigations after some heavy-duty government testing. We think it's good that the government regulators backed off, but when was the last time this administration backed off any regulatory fight? If this had been any other car model would the super regulators at the Traffic Safety Administration have backed off? We doubt it.

Favoritism? Absolutely. The point is there is no payoff to the Volt unless the government, which is still the biggest single owner of GM, is going to do everything possible to help it continue, even if there is no final payoff in the marketplace. [Fox Business, Power and Money, 1/23/12, via Nexis]

Cavuto Suggests Administration Glossed Over Volt Problems Because It Supports The Technology. From Cavuto's Fox Business show:

CAVUTO: You know what's interesting too, I mean, we got into these investigations. They want to start on when we knew the Volt was such a problem (INAUDIBLE) vehicle and exactly what we did about it. But it follows the theme where even if we know there are problems we gloss them over. The administration and others who are supporting this technology gloss them over to the degree that they were going in and out of legality here.

[...]

REP. DARRELL ISSA: Right now we have some of the facts and it doesn't look good but our committee has an obligation to make sure we get it fully -

CAVUTO: When you say it doesn't look good though, congressman, by that and I have heard from others and maybe you just can't confirm this one way or the other because it is silly, that almost from the get go government authorities knew and maybe GM itself acknowledge that there were these battery issues. That it was unreliable and you couldn't get the same readings out of them, either in the cold with affected mileage and wore out very quickly or under duress conditions when heat, when it could potentially ignite.

In other words, a lot of that was kept from not only those who would ultimately buy the car but from those who were endorsing the car, the taxpayer money to support that technology.

ISSA: We believe that is true. [Fox Business, Cavuto, 1/17/12, via Nexis]

In Fact, NHTSA Was Gathering More Evidence

NHTSA Rarely Opens Investigation After One Incident And No Real-Life Incidents. Detroit News reported:

NHTSA said it rarely opens an investigation after just one incident.

"Because the Volt incident involved a potential risk in newly emerging technology, NHTSA proceeded to open this investigation based only upon the results of limited test data and without waiting for data from real-world incidents," Strickland's letter said. [Detroit News, 1/14/12, via Nexis]

NHTSA: It Would Have Been Irresponsible To Announce Fire Without More Information. The New York Times reported:

''You wait six months before you start an investigation, and two weeks after you start an investigation the secretary says it's fine, and you think that's normal?'' he asked David L. Strickland, the administrator of the safety agency.

Mr. Strickland said it took time to determine that the Volt's battery was responsible for the fire, which occurred three weeks after a side-impact crash test in May and happened when no one was around to see it. And it took weeks to reproduce the event, he said. If his agency had to disclose every allegation of safety problems, it would make 40,000 such disclosures a year, he said.

''It is irresponsible, and frankly illegal, for us to tell the public there is something wrong with the car if we don't know what it is,'' Mr. Strickland said. ''I don't disclose to the public anything we find that we don't have proof is a risk to safety.''

[...]

Mr. Strickland of the highway traffic agency said most investigations were started after calls to the agency's phone hot line, warranty claims or accidents, but there were none of those in the case of the Volt's battery. And the fire burned three cars when no one was around to see; it took time to establish that the fire originated in the Volt and wasn't arson, he said. [New York Times, 1/25/12]

Detroit Free Press: "Issa Has Offered No Evidence That NHTSA ... Suppressed" Evidence. From a Detroit Free Press editorial:

California Republican Darrell Issa, who chairs the House Oversight Committee, is miffed that NHTSA didn't mention the battery fire when he held hearings earlier this fall to determine whether higher fuel economy standards are encouraging automakers or the federal agencies who oversee them to cut corners on safety. But Issa has offered no evidence that NHTSA, which first brought the test results to light last November, suppressed them to boost the Volt's so-far disappointing sales. [Detroit Free Press, 12/11/11]

Conservative Commentator: These Claims Are Simply "Hysteria." Frank Beckmann, a radio talk show host and climate change contrarian, wrote in an op-ed at The Detroit News:

The [Volt crash test] events sparked nationwide hyperventilation, none worse than that of U.S. Rep, Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, who wants to investigate because these reports of Volt fires "indicate important safety information may have been omitted in testimony before our committee just a few weeks ago."

Lost on the congressman is the reality that investigators still aren't sure exactly what happened in these extreme NHTSA tests, and that he and his legion of elected second guessers would become even more apoplectic if GM or government officials appeared to testify with less than complete information. [Detroit News, 12/16/11] [WJR, The Frank Beckmann Show, 2009, via YouTube] [WJR, accessed 1/25/12]

NY Times Business Columnist: "I Haven't Seen Any Evidence That The Agency Acted In Anything But A Professional And Independent Way." Business columnist James B. Stewart wrote:

[S]ome Republican congressmen questioned whether the Obama administration had concealed the results. And conspiracy theorists and others have taken to the Internet to argue that the agency has been too soft on G.M. and has a motive to soft-pedal or even distort the results because of the government's ownership stake.

Safety Research and Strategies, a Massachusetts consulting firm, claimed the government's Volt crash report was little more than a ''sales pitch'' for the plug-in hybrid vehicle.

Others have suggested that the agency was too tough, even if subliminally, in an effort to forestall any perception of a conflict, and that the danger of a Volt catching fire was remote.

Car and Driver magazine noted that the Volt's batteries caught fire three weeks and one week after the crash tests, and said that ''if you ask us, even just one day is plenty of time to safely exit a vehicle that's in peril of burning.'' The magazine noted that no Volts had caught fire in the real world and that only three safety complaints showed up in the government's database for all of 2010 and 2011, none involving fire hazards. ''No vehicle is completely and infallibly safe,'' the magazine said. The risk of fire following a crash in an electric car also appears to be vastly less than in a conventional gas-powered vehicle.

Tim Massad, assistant Treasury secretary for financial stability, told me this week that Treasury, which oversees the government's investment, ''is not G.M. or Chrysler's regulator and has no involvement with N.H.T.S.A.'' I haven't seen any evidence that the agency acted in anything but a professional and independent manner with respect to the Volt, but the controversy illustrates why even appearances of a conflict need to be avoided. [New York Times, 1/13/12]

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by nerzog (January 27, 2012 2:56 pm ET)
      4  
      The Volt is a double target for the Troglodytes. They hate the very idea of an electric car, and they hate the thought that GM may actually succeed after Obama bailed it out over Republican objections.

      So, if the Volt fails for any reason, expect a cacophony of Troglodyte chest thumping.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by SeattleJeff (January 27, 2012 8:43 pm ET)
        1  
        The more these morons reveal their utter ignorance, the more they are becoming like troglodytes. I think of chimpanzee males displaying by running around and smacking the females and juvenile chimps to show dominance. This leads me to believe these neocon idiots truly lack the mental capacity to use logic with reason. At least chimpanzees do express altruistic traits, unlike the Republicants.
        Report Abuse
      • Author by curiousindependent (January 29, 2012 3:49 pm ET)
           
        It isn't just that. Remember the old OLD saying "What's good for GM is good for the USA"?

        So do these treasonous snakes wearing elephant outfits in Congress. Since Obama got elected, they have done anything and everything that they could to ENSURE the downfall of this nation, just so that they can blame the black man in the Oval Office.
        Report Abuse
    • Author by mikeinmd (January 27, 2012 4:02 pm ET)
      4  
      3 reasons why they hate it: 1) Electric, might cut oil company income, 2)Made by an Obama bail out company, so it must be used as an example of Democratic failure, and 3) it it union made, not like those foreign cars imported from the Confederacy.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by altsoba (January 28, 2012 2:05 am ET)
          2
        It's not an electric car it's a hydride. It can only go 40 miles on a charge which isn't viable for 90% of drivers so they had to add a gas engine that keeps the battery charged for trips over 40 miles.

        Also the Obama bailout company sold the patent to the only viable battery design for cars to the OIL COMPANY and now they can't even use it in their own cars. But hey you keep thinking Obama is against the big oil companies. He likes the checks from big oil just as good as the checks from the big banks.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by mary59 (January 28, 2012 5:46 pm ET)
          1  
          This is systemic as far as oil money and politicians.

          The article is about how misleading these right wing media twerps are about the Volt.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by altsoba (January 29, 2012 12:52 am ET)
              3
            I was pointing out errors in mikeinmd's post because the Volt is not true electric car and Obama's bailout company sold the patents to the only viable battery to build a true electric car.
            So both Obama and GM share some blame in the criticism of the Volt because for all the touting Obama and GM have done over the Volt it has turned out to be a freaking joke.
            If that's the Best GM can do then we should not be giving them any more tax dollars.

            As for his comment on unions they are part of the problem not the solution. I have worked in union shops for many years and at one time belonged to a union and the way you have to work is phucking stupid.

            I am an engineer and am a non-union employee now and we had a rush job from a new customer and I needed to take some measurements and get some part numbers off an existing die. I went down to the plant floor and a skid of parts were in front of the die rack so I took a manual pallet jack and moved the parts about four feet. Now because of the union I was supposed to contact the department that takes care of moving parts around the plant and wait for them to come and move the stack of parts four feet so I could get to the die, take measurements, design new die details and write CNC programs to make the new die details and I only had a couple days to do this and meet the customers delivery. Now keep in mind this was to make a short run of sample parts and if the delivery and quality satisfied the customer the company would be awarded a much need multi million dollar contract. But instead I had a grievance filed against me for moving the stack of parts instead of waiting 3 or 4 hours to have a union employee move it for me.
            I have worked in other union shops and this is the bullsh!t you have to deal with that nonunion shops do not. As far as I am concerned the unions can go phuck themselves because they are destroying American jobs.
            Report Abuse
        • Author by The_Cat (January 29, 2012 1:46 pm ET)
          1  
          It's not an electric car it's a hydride.

          I think the word you are looking for here is hybrid, altsoba. But it's not a hybrid. It is an electric vehicle because the drive train is all electric. There is an ICE on board strictly to recharge the batteries.

          [quoteIt can only go 40 miles on a charge which isn't viable for 90% of drivers so they had to add a gas engine that keeps the battery charged for trips over 40 miles.][/quote]

          And the average distance driven by 80% of Americans is less than 20 miles a day. So, the all electric range is actually suitable for most people as an everyday car.

          Also the Obama bailout company sold the patent to the only viable battery design for cars to the OIL COMPANY

          General Motors sold their NiMH battery development company Ovonics to Texaco during the Bush/Cheney & Co. administration, altsoba.
          ...and now they can't even use it in their own cars.

          Which is actually fine because LiFePO4 batteries are just as recyclable, just as cheap to make, and actually provide better energy density.

          But hey you keep thinking Obama is against the big oil companies.

          He's not. If he were, he would be asking Congress for an investigation into the price of gasoline, because that particular market is rigged, and everybody knows it.

          He likes the checks from big oil just as good as the checks from the big banks.

          It's so nice to have opinions, isn't it? You're not very up to date on electric and hybrid vehicles and the history of the last 20 years, and just a bunch of other stuff, are you altsoba?
          Report Abuse
          • Author by altsoba (January 29, 2012 10:57 pm ET)
               
            It is you that does not understand
            The Volt is not a true electric car it is a plug-in HYBRID, a true electric is like the EV GM leased in California, they had no gasoline engine to charge them.
            You claim that 80% only drive 20 miles per day but offer no data to back it up. Could that be because you pulled it out of your azz? A car that can only go 40 miles on a charge is a freaking waste.

            Also I never said that GM sold the patent during the Obama administration. I just said they sold the best battery design to make a true electric car viable. This is something that both GM and Obama have been bragging about GM is the development of an ELECTRIC car and then they give us the Volt. They should be embarrassed.

            The lithium-ion batteries used in the Volt are not as good a battery as the NiMH battery they sold the patent to. The EV cars GM built would go well over 100 miles per charge with the later versions going over 150 miles per charge.

            It is you that is not up to date on electric cars. Also they go back much further than 20 years they go back to the the mid 1800.
            Report Abuse
            • Author by Johaely (January 30, 2012 9:40 am ET)
                 
              At the moment, a hybrid is more viable than a completely electric car. There is no infrastructure to support a long trip on an electric car, unless random people are willing to let you plug it in their houses (which i doubt).
              Report Abuse
    • Author by pete592 (January 27, 2012 4:13 pm ET)
      4  
      I remember right-wingers coming to Toyota's defense when they were having problems with accelerator pedals.

      Why do right wingers hate American companies, American products, and American workers?
      Report Abuse
    • Author by ferrarimanf355 (January 27, 2012 4:22 pm ET)
      1 1
      There's also another PR problem: Chevrolet dealers turning down their Volt allocations.

      Source

      I can only imagine the right-wing reaction to that.

      That being said, I'll take a Camaro ZL-1, please.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by case1000 (January 27, 2012 5:07 pm ET)
      1  
      Volt, that is what I thought, just had some battery problems which were fixed if I remember right.I thought they were pro industry.
      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (January 27, 2012 9:15 pm ET)
        3
      The electric car has a great future...just like its had for the last 75 years.
      Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (January 27, 2012 10:14 pm ET)
        1  
        The gasoline-powered car has a great future... because petroleum is in infinite supply.
        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (January 27, 2012 10:41 pm ET)
            5
          Not in your lifetime...or any time soon thereafter...are we going to run out of petroleum.
          Report Abuse
          • Author by jonimacaroni1 (January 27, 2012 11:23 pm ET)
            3 1
            We sure are going to start having less and less oil available, and it's a finite resource. Just because it's not going to run out in the next few years isn't a reason to use as much as possible during that time frame! We should conserve our finite resources. All of them. Water. Copper. Rare earth minerals. Oil. Etc.

            We don't have an infinite supply, and since we can't reasonably only think about ourselves, and since it's grossly unfair for us to fail to consider the consequences to those future generations, your comment only continues to prove that you're a terrible person, "wesley". Go away. Crawl back into your hole.
            Report Abuse
          • Author by pete592 (January 28, 2012 12:10 am ET)
            1  
            Therefore, we owe nothing to future generations, even those of our own families, and shouldn't bother trying to innovate in anticipation of the inevitable, because we won't live long enough to see it happen.

            And besides, we know, beyond all doubt, that the earth's atmosphere can accommodate a limitless concentration of carbon without any ill effects whatsoever on the planet's ability to sustain life.

            Population growth isn't a factor either. We're only adding a billion people to the earth's population every 14 years, so there's more than enough petroleum to go around for generations to come. There's no possibility of bloody conflicts breaking out over the planet's petroleum reserves with such a slow and manageable growth in population. After all, we've never gone to war over oil before, right?

            Rejoice! All is well!!
            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (January 28, 2012 11:41 am ET)
                1
              -- we owe nothing to future generations, even those of our own families, and shouldn't bother trying to innovate in anticipation of the inevitable -- pete

              I recognize your sarcasm...as well as the recent shrillness to your posts. It happens to most of us when in fear of the results of a pending major election.

              It's recognizable with the escalation of the silliness of posts like yours...trying to paint a picture of all or nothing concerning those that disagree with your dire predictions...when in fact the answers are somewhere in between.

              Those arguing in favor of producing more energy from petroleum sources are not about wanton exploitation...damning future generations with no regard for their well-being. It's a realistic look at the situation. We're not going to significantly reduce dependence on petroleum in this generation or the next.

              I support the increased production of all sources of energy...including the left's sacred cows of renewable green energy like wind and solar. We should build nuclear facilities and increase production of clean coal and natural gas...along with crude oil.

              Petroleum products are the backbone of the world economy and progress in all countries around the world...and that's not going to change in the near future...regardless of the howls of the self-serving enviro groups.

              Supporting the increased exploration, production and use of petroleum products does not mean that I oppose conservation efforts. It doesn't mean I want dirty air and water with no regard for future generations.

              It means that I recognize the actual situation facing the consumption of energy domestically and worldwide...and that we cannot sustain economies and progress without the expansion of petroleum products...and an increase in all types of energy production.

              So you can drop the charade of "Rejoice! All is well!!" as the mantra of those supporting increased production of petroleum...it's pure silliness...you know it and I know it.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by pete592 (January 28, 2012 1:26 pm ET)
                1  
                And there was nothing shrill or sarcastic about your opening post. Nope, not in the least.

                If you feel that shrillness and sarcasm are beneath you, then don't open the conversation with it.

                "Petroleum products are the backbone of the world economy and progress in all countries around the world"
                That statement is ridiculously absurd. Nigeria, just for example, is a country rich in oil, but ravaged with widespread poverty and violence. Petroleum is often a means to amass military strength and totalitarian rule, instead of a source of prosperity for the people.
                Report Abuse
              • Author by pete592 (January 28, 2012 2:10 pm ET)
                1  
                And I'm tickled at your attempts to psychoanalyze me. Nothing shrill or sarcastic about that either. If you're seriously diagnosing me with election-time fear, then I recommend you find an accredited school in which to study psychology, because it appears that a diploma mill has ripped you off.

                The stable of whack-a-doodle liars that the GOP has put forth has left me more entertained than fearful.
                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (January 28, 2012 4:27 pm ET)
                    1
                  -- And I'm tickled at your attempts to psychoanalyze me -- pete

                  No psychoanalysis necessary...it's a clear observation.
                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mary59 (January 28, 2012 4:48 pm ET)
                    1  
                    So, you really have no argument about this car?
                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jonimacaroni1 (January 29, 2012 7:44 pm ET)
                      1  
                      Of course he has no argument about this car.

                      He's a troll when he posts here. His only intent is to derail the conversation away from the actual topic. He doesn't care that he lies in order to do that. It doesn't bother him in the least that he gets justifiably mocked for his statements. He's trying to garner that negative attention. That's what trolls do.
                      Report Abuse
              • Author by jonimacaroni1 (January 29, 2012 7:43 pm ET)
                1  
                Supporting the increased production and usage of petroleum products shows us that you're a soulless, selfish creep who doesn't care about anyone but yourself. Whatever makes life easiest for you is what you're going to support, and damn anyone else in the process.

                We sure can support more people and greater industrial production with less oil. We have to. We have to conserve all of our finite resources, if we're smart.

                You're stupid. And selfish. And insincere. And ignorant. No one should ever listen to a bit of advice you provide.
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    • Author by altsoba (January 28, 2012 1:57 am ET)
      1 1
      First I would rather take my chances with a battery than 20 gallons of gas if I was worried about fires.

      The real problem is that GM nor the government want an electric car to succeed because the oil companies will not allow it until every last drop of oil has been sucked out and sold.

      GM bought majority intrest in Ovonics, a company that had developed a NiMH battery for automobiles. These batteries can go well over 100 miles on a single charge and last for over 100,000 miles with Toyota test cars getting up to 200,000 miles on the same battery. GM built a fleet of test cars called EV and leased them in California with great results. GM suddenly called all of the EV cars back and had them all crushed. Then they sold the patent of the NiMH batteries to Texaco who was bought out by Chevron shortly after. Then they came up with the Volt which really isn't an electric car but a hybrid. It uses lithium-ion batteries which are lighter and do have some advantages over the NiMH batteries but can only go around 40 miles on a charge and they are not sure how long the batteries will last. So GM decided to sell the rights of the most viable battery to the oil company and go with a battery that needs a gasoline engine to charge the battery after only 40 miles. That makes a lot of sense dosen't it, unless you aim to please the oil companies.

      How many presidents have promised to lessen our dependency on foriegn oil? How many have kept that promise? None, and neither will Obama because the oil companies have to much influence on our government.

      If we put as many resources toward developing an electric car and clean renewable energy as we did wars and nation building we would be off oil by now or well on our way. Instead we go to war which requires a huge amout of oil which makes the oil companies happy and also makes the other military contractors very very rich and Obama may preach about green energy and less oil dependency but just like past presidents it's just lips service to get them elected.
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      • Author by spintronic (January 29, 2012 8:45 am ET)
           
        And to add - just take notice of how politicians seem to chicken out whenever someone mentions cutting off subsidies to "big oil".

        We all see the massive profits they make and we foot the bill.
        President Obama even mentioned the subsidies in his SOTU address,
        it got somewhat of a cheer, but it's just mere lip service as well.

        Don't get me wrong, I support the administration and President Obama,
        but until someone seriously takes steps to break this oil addiction
        alternative energy development will be slow at best.

        Report Abuse

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