On the June 24 edition of ABC Radio Networks' Imus in the Morning, host Don Imus gave his explanation for controversial comments he had made the previous day about Dallas Cowboys football player Adam “Pacman” Jones , who, it was noted, is African American, by asserting, “The point was, in order to make a sarcastic point, I asked [sportscaster] Warner [Wolf] what color he was,” and later adding, “What people should be outraged about is that they arrest blacks for no reason. And, I mean, there's no reason to arrest this kid six times.” After co-host and news anchor Charles McCord asked, “And when does it simply become harassment?” Imus answered, “I didn't -- yes, exactly. They shoot blacks for no reason. We know about that in New York City. I mean, we already understand all this.” However later in the program, sportscaster Warner Wolf -- who was also part of the June 23 discussion, during which Imus referred to Jones' race in the context of talking about his numerous arrests -- said, "[A]nybody that listens to the show knows that whether it's a politician or an athlete or anyone, someone who's obviously guilty, you joke and say, 'Well, it must have been racism.' I mean, it's a joke. I mean, we all know that 'Pacman' is no model citizen. The guy's been arrested and suspended. So it's a joke. You say, 'Well, it must be racism.' It's like [former Chicago Bears player] Cedric Benson. Guy's suspended, in fact, released by the Bears. Intoxicated while driving a boat, intoxicated while driving. And you say, 'Well, he was released? Must be racism.' It's a joke." Imus did not contest Wolf's characterization of Imus' June 23 remark during the next day's discussion. Notwithstanding the apparent conflict in their explanations, Newsday reported on June 25 that WABC* director of programming Phil Boyce said of Imus' explanation: “When I first heard the comment I thought that's probably what he meant, but I called him and he explained and it made sense to me. I said, 'Let's make sure you explain it the next time you're on the air,' and he did a very good job.”

Also during the June 24 program, Wolf asserted, “I think there's also another side. Many times during the show, whether it's an athlete or a politician, when a guy is obviously in the wrong -- let's say, like Cedric Benson, arrested for drinking, driving a boat, driving a car, we know he's wrong -- and you'll jokingly say, 'Well, it must be racism.' ” Imus responded, not by challenging Wolf's different interpretation, but by asserting, “Well, yeah, I mean, it's --” before Wolf interrupted, “I mean, it's a joke.”

On the June 23 edition of Imus in the Morning, Wolf noted that Jones had been suspended “following a shooting at a Vegas nightclub.” Imus said, “Well, stuff happens. You're in a nightclub, for God's sake. What do you think's going to happen in a nightclub? People are drinking, they're doing drugs, there are women there, and people have guns. So there -- go ahead.” Wolf continued, “He's also -- he's been arrested six times since being drafted by Tennessee in 2005.” Imus asked, “What color is he?” to which Wolf replied, “He's African-American.” Imus said, “Oh, well, there you go. Now we know.”

Wolf's comments purporting to explain Imus' June 23 remark echoed a statement Wolf reportedly made to Newsday, according to a June 24 article in that publication. Newsday reported that Wolf “said he was surprised the exchange had generated controversy.” It continued, “Wolf said regular listeners would recognize it as part of a running, satirical joke in which Imus pokes fun at people who get into serious trouble, then cry racism. He made a similar joke about the Chicago Bears' Cedric Benson earlier this month after the football player's latest arrest.”

From the June 23 edition of ABC Radio Networks' Imus in the Morning:

WOLF: Oh, defensive back Adam “Pacman” Jones, recently signed by the Cowboys. Here's a guy suspended all of 2007, following a shooting at a Vegas nightclub.

IMUS: Well, stuff happens. You're in a nightclub, for God's sake. What do you think's going to happen in a nightclub? People are drinking, they're doing drugs, there are women there, and people have guns. So there -- go ahead.

WOLF: He's also -- he's been arrested six times since being drafted by Tennessee in 2005.

IMUS: What color is he?

WOLF: He's African-American.

IMUS: Oh, well, there you go. Now we know.

WOLF: He wants to drop his nickname “Pacman” because he says there's too much negativity tied to it. I mean, like, people aren't going to know who he is if he drops his nickname.

IMUS: Well --

WOLF: “Who's that -- who's that new player? Oh, that's Adam Jones.”

IMUS: OK, that's not bad.

BERNARD McGUIRK (executive producer): How about Adam “Dickhead” Jones?

IMUS: Yeah. How about that?

WOLF: Yeah. Is there no respect, I-Man?

IMUS: I -- I'm not sure.

WOLF: Brazilian police have revealed that the great Pelé was robbed at gunpoint in Sao Paolo, Brazil, by 10 Brazilian bandits, taking his gold necklace, his watch, and his cell phone. You can't rob Pelé in Brazil. I mean, you can rob him in Peru or Uruguay or --

IMUS: Or in a nightclub in Vegas.

WOLF: There you go.

IMUS: Yeah.

WOLF: I mean this is the king, right?

IMUS: Quarter after the hour. Thanks, Warner, here on the Imus in the Morning program. We will talk with Doris Kearns Goodwin, coming up.

From the June 24 edition of Imus in the Morning:

IMUS: What did I mean by the “Pacman” Jones remark? I thought, well -- what I meant was -- when Warner and I were talking yesterday about “Pacman” Jones being arrested six times, and which I think was just -- you know, was obviously they're picking on him. So I asked Warner what color he was. Well, obviously, I already knew what color he was. The point was, in order to make a sarcastic point, I asked Warner what color he was. Warner tells me. I said, “Well, there you go.” That's the point.

McCORD: Exactly.

IMUS: What people should be outraged about is that they arrest blacks for no reason. And, I mean, there's no reason to arrest this kid six times. I mean, maybe he did something once, but, I mean, everybody's done something once. I have.

And -- but, I mean, that's just --

McCORD: And when does it simply become harassment?

IMUS: I didn't -- yes, exactly. They shoot blacks for no reason. We know about that in New York City. I mean, we already understand all this.

So -- and that, in light of -- I'm thinking, this current edition of the Imus in the Morning program, in which -- I guess if you can't see it on RFDTV, you don't know, but the producer of the Imus in the Morning program, Tom Bowman, is black. Two of the co-hosts, the cast members of the program are black -- Karith Foster and Tony Powell.

How insane would I have to be? What would I be thinking -- what would I mean -- why would I sit here and say -- “Oh, yeah. There you go.” I mean, how does anyone -- how does anybody -- how do you get -- make that connection?

McCORD: I don't know. And particularly now --

IMUS: I mean --

McCORD: -- after the past nearly year. My God.

IMUS: So, I mean, nobody has -- no white man with a radio or television program has done -- has had more discussions about race relations since December 3rd than I have. It was with Louise Patterson, and Jesse Jackson, Dr. Peter Gomes, and Dr. Debra Dickerson, Dick Gregory, Carl Jeffers. I mean --

McCORD: May I point out --

IMUS: You know, Karith Foster, Tony Powell. I mean, we talk about it all the time.

McCORD: Which is precisely what you said would be the thrust of this program.

IMUS: I mean, why not report on that?

McCORD: I don't know. Jesus.

IMUS: I mean, I know there's some people want to get me. But this -- you're not going to get me for -- this is ridiculous.

WOLF: You know what it reminded me of, I-Man? It's like Joe McCarthy, the 1950s witch hunt.

McCORD: It really is.

WARNER: I mean, they're looking for something, and there's nothing there.

IMUS: I mean, it's -- I mean, you know, play the tape, Lou [Rufino, sound engineer].

[...]

IMUS: Well, that's the tape. My point was that there's no reason to arrest this kid six times. He's a football player. He's a lovely kid. He's out having fun. He doesn't need to be arrested six -- he gets arrested times. Well, we know why he gets arrested six times.

McCORD: Which was your point.

IMUS: That was my point.

McGUIRK: That was clear.

McCORD: Yes, it was. To anybody who wanted to hear it.

WOLF: I think there's also another side. Many times during the show, whether it's an athlete or a politician, when a guy is obviously in the wrong -- let's say, like Cedric Benson, arrested for drinking, driving a boat, driving a car, we know he's wrong -- and you'll jokingly say, “Well, it must be racism.” I mean, yeah. [laughing]

IMUS: Well, yeah, I mean, it's --

WOLF: I mean, it's a joke. Yeah.

IMUS: I mean, Karith Foster -- Karith said to me -- what were you talking about? You got fired at The View?

FOSTER: Oh, yeah, yeah. We were talking about that.

IMUS: And what did I say?

FOSTER: And you go, “Clearly, it was because you're black.” Like -- which is so obviously not the case and sarcasm and -- but that's it. A lot of folks don't get sarcasm.

WOLF: They don't get it.

FOSTER: That's -- it's unfortunate, but that's -- they don't get it.

McCORD: But this case was clear. It never entered my mind anything else was intended by that remark. It was clear. This is the reason why he has been arrested a half-dozen times.

[...]

[This portion of Imus in the Morning is not broadcast on television]

IMUS: So, Warner, you're going to do sports in a little bit here.

WOLF: Yes, I will.

IMUS: How great is this going to be, though?

WOLF: I just wanted to -- if I may just butt in here -- and just one more thing, not to be redundant, but --

IMUS: By the way, Warner, you are a first-class person.

WOLF: Oh. That's very nice of you.

IMUS: Anyway, go ahead.

WOLF: Well, I was just going to say -- something -- people made something out of nothing here. And it really is -- you know, it's like -- it's disappointing, because we are part of a media. But anybody that listens to the show knows that whether it's a politician or an athlete or anyone, someone who's obviously guilty, you joke and say, “Well, it must have been racism.” I mean, it's a joke.

I mean, we all know that “Pacman” is no model citizen. The guy's been arrested and suspended. So it's a joke. You say, “Well, it must be racism.” It's like Cedric Benson. Guy's suspended, in fact, released by the Bears. Intoxicated while driving a boat, intoxicated while driving. And you say, “Well, he was released? Must be racism.” It's a joke. I mean --

IMUS: Well, it's trying to make a point, which is --

WOLF: Yes.

IMUS: Yeah.

WOLF: I can't --

IMUS: Well, I -- but Dick Gregory had good point, too, I thought, a great point. And that was, you're going to be held accountable --

McCORD: Yep.

IMUS: -- for past sins, and I don't have a big problem with that, because I go back to what I said initially about the Rutgers comment. Don't say stuff like that. And so -- and that was the reason I ever offered any lame excuse for it. Don't make fun of innocent people and say stuff that's not true and that is mean-spirited. And if you do, apologize for it, ask forgiveness, and move on. And don't do it again. Which I don't intend to do. So. This is --

POWELL: The point is, you should be held accountable for things when you do sin, but if you have not sinned, then they should not be held accountable for not having done anything wrong. I think that -- that's also true.

IMUS: Now it's Reverend Tony Powell.

McCORD: Amen.

[crosstalk]

FOSTER: Amen to that.

IMUS: I love that.

It's 11 after the hour. Speaking of all that, please welcome -- well, not all that. Please welcome to the Imus in the Morning program Hulk Hogan. Good morning, Mr. Hogan.

This item originally identified Phil Boyce as “ABC director of programming.” In fact, according to his WABC bio, Boyce is “Citadel Broadcasting VP of News/Talk Programming” and also is responsible for programming WABC. Citadel Broadcasting and ABC Radio merged in 2006, and, according to Citadel's website, Citadel “owns and operates ABC Radio Networks.”