On CNN, Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft claims “it's a lie to say that you can change from a man to a woman or a woman to a man”
Ashcroft: “Clearly major medical associations don't know what they're talking about”
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From the April 25, 2023, edition of CNN's The Lead with Jake Tapper
BIANNA GOLODRYGA (HOST): In our national lead in Missouri advocates are suing to block an emergency rule that restricts transgender medical treatment such as hormone therapy and gender reassignment surgery for children and adults. The rule imposed by the state’s Republican attorney general is expected to go into effect on Thursday. Some of the restrictions include prohibiting doctors from providing care to any that patient has not had 15 hours of therapy treatment over an 18 month period or three years of treatment for gender dysphoria, which is the emotional harm caused by identifying as a different gender than the sex someone is born with. The attorney general has said he is, quote, standing up to make sure that patients have the information they need to make informed health care decisions. Not every official in Missouri is on board with this emergency rule. That includes the Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft, who's running for governor as a Republican in the state. Secretary Ashcroft joins us now. Thank you so much for your time. You're in favor of this rule when it comes to children but not adults. Why?
JAY ASHCROFT (MISSOURI SECRETARY OF STATE): Well, first of all, I think the state has the responsibility to protect those that can't protect themselves. They have the responsibility to protect those who have no voice and our children don't. In virtually every other aspect of life we say that they're too young to consent, too young to make decisions and yet somehow, just because some doctors want to earn extra money, we’re allowing them to surgically castrate or chemically castrate children. That's wrong. The idea that you can become a man if you’re a woman or a woman if you’re a man through surgery, it's just not true. We need to help transgender individuals learn to agree with reality and be the best they can be. You know, when you're doing something stupid, your enemy will affirm you. They will tell you you're doing a great job, continue doing that. It's only your friends that will come up, maybe slap you upside the head in a friendly way, and say, look, you can be better, you can do better. I think it's great that we're trying to protect the kids, to actually get to the root concerns, the root problem and to make sure that they can be the best they can be for the rest of their life.
GOLODRYGA : So, you're talking about what you agree with with the attorney general in terms of the bill, and that is children. I'm asking you specifically why you say this shouldn't apply to adults?
ASHCROFT: Unfortunately, although I don't think anyone should go through this process because it's a lie to say that you can change from a man to a woman or a woman to a man through surgery, it doesn't happen. It's like spray painting a brick of lead and saying look I have a brick of gold. You don't. You have a brick of lead that's been spray painted. But I also believe that in our country, adults have a right to make their own decisions about what they want to do with their own money. Now, if they wanna use my money, if they want to require me to say that it’s a right thing or a good thing, that's different. But if you have someone that's an adult, that they can make their own decision as to what they want to do and I support that.
GOLODRYGA: Do you think that state lawmakers have more expertise in this specific area than major medical associations and doctors?
ASHCROFT: Well, I mean, we have major medical associations that are saying that you can change from a man to a woman based on surgery. So clearly major medical associations don't know what they're talking about. You cannot change from a man to a woman or from a woman to a man through surgery. It's not a chemical process that transforms you. It bolts something onto you or cuts something off of you. It does not change you between being a man or woman. Clearly the legislature understands this better because they say it isn't true and it's not.
GOLODRYGA: But secretary, I know you, for example, have an engineering and legal background. I don't believe you have a medical background, so how can you say that with such affirmation, that you believe lawmakers in the state know better than many doctors who believe this care is actually crucial for some of these people going through this process right now for their mental health and well-being?
ASHCROFT: I would never say that every member of our legislature knows better than every doctor when it comes to every sort of, potential medical practice that there is. But it doesn't take a medical degree, it doesn’t take an engineering degree to know the difference between men and women and the understanding that having someone cut off your genitalia does not change whether you are a man or a woman. That doesn't take a medical degree. Children know that.
GOLODRYGA: Again, I just want to ask you, why you think this shouldn't be an issue left for parents and their doctors to decide in terms of their own children's care?
ASHCROFT: I think that when we're talking about irreversible, life changing surgeries, we need to make sure that it is being done as correctly as possible and that we're truly getting consent from individuals. The idea — I mean, what happens when a child decides later on that what they were forced into wasn't correct?
GOLODRYGA: What happens —
ASHCROFT: The idea that —
GOLODRYGA: What happens if this happens to have saved a child's life that had been going through emotional trauma as a teen?
ASHCROFT: It doesn't save the child's life. It doesn't. When we see the tremendously horrific suicide rates among transgender kids we see that before they go through surgical or chemical operations, we see that afterwards. One of the many problems with this is this doesn't truly solve their distress, this doesn’t truly solve their problem. What I'm saying is, they don't need people who are just trying to take money from them with a medical operation, they need people that love them and are willing to meet them where they are and help them to understand reality. We do not help people by convincing them that reality is not reality. Where does it stop? Where does it stop? When do we tell a child — go ahead.
GOLODRYGA: Do you have empirical evidence or data that shows that they aren't helped?
ASHCROFT: They don't become the other — They don’t — You can't change a man to a woman or a woman to a man through this operation. Clearly it doesn't, and where does it stop? Are we going to, in two or three years, when a 5-year-old child says I'm a bird, I can fly and they want to run off the roof, do you say you're right, I'm affirming you, you're a bird, you can fly? No. We don't affirm people when they're denying reality. That's not loving. It's loving to help people live with their reality, potentially change their reality. But you can't change someone from a man to a woman or vice versa with chemicals or surgery.
GOLODRYGA: I'm not a medical expert but I do know that several major medical associations agree that this process, when it applies to a specific group of people, can in fact change their lives. It is what they have gone on the record saying. Unfortunately we are out of time right now. I'd love to continue this conversation with you in the future and I do appreciate your time so much.