CHRIS HAYES (HOST): Last night Fox News host Sean Hannity appeared to turn against a Republican candidate he claims to have always liked, Senator Marco Rubio.

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HAYES: What was particularly interesting about this is what preceded it earlier the same day. A piece in New York magazine claiming Rubio has lost support of Fox News. According to three Fox sources, Fox chief Roger Ailes has told people he's “lost confidence” in Rubio's ability to win. “We're finished with Rubio,” Ailes recently told a Fox host, “We can't do the Rubio thing anymore.” Despite how neatly that Hannity rift seemed to line up with the aforementioned article, Fox News fired back, flatly denying there is any credence to the story. Fox's executive vice president Michael Clemente sent a statement to Talking Points Memo saying in part, quote: “There is no credence to this narrative.”

We should add one more element to this story, a tweet yesterday by the head of the company that owns Fox News. News Corp's Rupert Murdoch: “As predicted, Trump reaching out to make peace with Republican establishment. If he becomes inevitable party would be mad not to unify.” Does that mean Fox News is ready to unify around Donald Trump? That's anyone's guess. There's another GOP debate tonight on Fox News, and it will be the first time Trump and Fox News host Megyn Kelly have faced each other since the infamous Fox News debate back in August -- In which trump claimed he was treated so poorly. So, we'll see what happens there. 

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HAYES: Joining me now, New York magazine contributing editor Gabriel Sherman, author of that New York Times bestselling biography of Fox News' Roger Ailes, “The Loudest Voice In The Room,” and who has been reporting on this issue. OK, Fox people pushed back, I guess one question is how much do we -- how much is all this orchestrated anyway, right? I mean, there's always a sort of who is Ailes pushing, and who is he trying to get elected, and we know that there was this dinner between Ailes and Rubio, in which Rubio tried to sell him on comprehensive immigration reform. 

GABRIEL SHERMAN: And he did, as the New York Times reported, Sean Hannity and other hosts after that dinner became more receptive to the Gang of Eight bill.

HAYES: So, what is your sense of where Fox is now, with respect to the Trump phenomenon?

SHERMAN: Well really, what's going on now is Fox is facing a rebellion from the far right. There's a perception that Fox has been propping up Rubio, that there's a whole cabal of people in the Washington bureau of Fox News. If you look at the pundits that are on Bret Baier's 6 PM newscast, Steven Hayes, Charles Krauthammer, this group of people have really been Rubio's champions, and Fox has been seen as propping him up. Especially by the grassroots, the base that likes Trump. And I think what you're seeing now is Ailes saying “Listen, we can't be out on a limb, seeming to be pushing Rubio along when the guy can't deliver votes.” I think that Ailes is sort of open to the idea of a Trump candidacy. Obviously Rupert Murdoch before was against it, but I think as you saw in Murdoch's tweets, I think Fox is coming around to the idea that it's going to be Trump, and they are going to have to get on board.

HAYES: Do you think that will color tonight? I mean, because to me what has been so interesting about this sort of Fox-Trump thing is the way that Ailes. very smartly I think, crafts this narrative of independence at all times. And so is from a branding perspective, Megyn Kelly's tough questions of the feud was sort of a branding win, right? It might not have been a big win with the base, but it says, like “Look, we're independent, we're not in the pocket.”

SHERMAN: Sure. I think tonight what you're going to see is Megyn Kelly, she's been telling people she is going to be professional. I think she's not going to do anything to antagonize, outwardly antagonize Trump.

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HAYES: I would talk to a bunch of Trump voters when I was in Vegas, at the caucus, they were all telling me “We hate Fox, we don't trust Fox,” there's a real rebellion against Fox by Trump people. 

Previously:

Sean Hannity Calls Marco Rubio A “Pawn Of The Establishment” Trying To Take Down Trump

Rupert Murdoch: GOP “Would Be Mad Not To Unify” Around Donald Trump If He Becomes Inevitable

Report: Fox's Roger Ailes Just Turned On Marco Rubio