On the November 7 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, reporting on the recent crowning of two girls as “Cutest Couple” during an annual senior yearbook poll at Waukegan High School in Illinois, host Bill O'Reilly said to his guest, Dr. Laura Berman, assistant clinical professor of psychiatry and obstetrics/gynecology at Northwestern University, "[T]he kids voted this couple the cutest couple to tweak the adults, Doctor, to cause trouble, to make an issue of the yearbook." O'Reilly later claimed: “A lot of parents say, 'Listen, we don't want to normalize homosexuality in a public way in an academic setting, high school, among minors.' ” When Berman, who had previously said -- “homosexuality is becoming, thankfully, more normalized, because this is the time in adolescence that kids are exploring their sexuality and, in fact, starting to identify what their sexual orientation is” -- asked, “Why?” O'Reilly replied, “Well, for a number of reasons. One: social. It's much more difficult to be a homosexual than a heterosexual in America. Two: religious. There are people who believe that that kind of a lifestyle ... is against their religion. And they pass that on to their children. ... Three: an exposition of sexuality in a minor -- and that's very important -- in a minor situation is inappropriate in an academic setting. All of those things are valid, Doctor.”

As Media Matters for America has documented (here, here, and here), O'Reilly has made numerous controversial statements on homosexuality. Yet, during the August 15 edition of The O'Reilly Factor, O'Reilly stated, “I think everybody's got to relax on all this gay stuff,” in reference to a viewer's email about comments he had made in response to criticism Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM) received for an answer he gave at a presidential forum to the question of whether homosexuality is a choice.

During the November 7 segment, O'Reilly also asserted: “I think private behavior belongs in private settings. ... I don't think it belongs in the high school yearbook.” Berman then asked: “But you'd be OK with the cutest couple, heterosexual couple, though?” O'Reilly replied: “I would be, because that is the norm of society. See, it's the same gay-marriage thing. You have a 6 percent option here. Homosexuals, according to research, are 6 percent of the population.” Berman later asked: “But since African-Americans are a minority, would you have a problem with an African-American heterosexual couple as the cutest couple?” O'Reilly responded, “No ... because race is not conduct. There's a difference between who you are and what you do,” later adding: "[Y]ou don't allow sexuality to intrude in your high school yearbook."

O'Reilly also claimed that "[t]his is a lesbian couple that was voted in there ... because they're a lesbian couple," further saying, “Look, Doctor, there's no reason why [the couple] Brandy [Johnson] and Lupe [Silva] had to declare themselves anything other than friends. They didn't have to do that. They chose to do that.” He later asserted: "[L]ook, I don't want any kid to be bullied. I wrote Kids are Americans Too for gay kids who are getting bullied. They should read the book, know their rights. I don't want anything like that to happen."

Finally, responding to O'Reilly's claim that "[s]omebody else would say you're encouraging that kind of experimentation ... when you don't have to do it," Berman stated: “You can't encourage it. ... It happens anyway.” O'Reilly then replied: “All right, Doctor, that's the old argument. Let's legalize drugs because it happens anyway. There's got to be boundaries.” When Berman countered, “Drugs are not the same. Homosexuality is not illegal,” O'Reilly concluded: “But it -- you know what I'm talking about. There's got to be boundaries.”

From the November 7 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:

O'REILLY: Illinois students at Weekaugan [sic: Waukegan] High School voted seniors Brandy Johnson and Lupe Silva the “cutest couple.” So the self-proclaimed lesbians get their picture in the yearbook under the “cute” banner. At first, school officials tried to ban the category, but finally relented despite a parental objection.

Joining us now from Chicago with reaction, Dr. Laura Berman, who teaches psychiatry at Northwestern University.

Now, I'm saying this with all due respect to these two 17-year-old girls. I don't want to sound mean, condescending, or all that. I want to give you the thing.

I believe, based upon our investigation of this Weekaugan High School deal -- and the picture, and put up the picture again of these students -- that the kids voted this couple the cutest couple to tweak the adults, Doctor, to cause trouble, to make an issue of the yearbook.

Now, this happens. As a former high school teacher, I can tell you, every school, every semester. That's what's in play here, in my opinion. What do you say?

BERMAN: You know -- yes, kids like to tweak the adults and like to be provocative, and all of that is true. I don't think that this is necessarily completely about them trying to tweak the adults and trying to be provocative. I think this is about -- and we've seen this in other high schools, as well -- it's starting to become at least a small trend, if not a large one, that homosexuality is becoming, thankfully, more normalized, because this is the time in adolescence that kids are exploring their sexuality and, in fact, starting to identify what their sexual orientation is.

O'REILLY: Now, you realize that you said thankfully, that, I don't know, 50, 60 percent of the country is going to be angry with you for saying that. And here's why.

[laughter]

O'REILLY: Don't laugh. You got to respect their point of view.

BERMAN: I know. I do, I do.

O'REILLY: Look, as a medical doctor and a psychiatrist --

BERMAN: I'm laughing at you saying I'm going to be in trouble.

O'REILLY: -- you have to respect their point of view because it is a valid point of view -- and let me tell you what the point of view is.

BERMAN: Let's see. What is the point of view?

O'REILLY: All right.

BERMAN: I'll tell you if it's valid.

O'REILLY: High school kids experiment. They experiment all over the place.

BERMAN: Sure.

O'REILLY: High school kids, a lot of them are rebellious. They have a chip on their shoulder. They'll do things -- as I said, I think this is one of the examples -- just to get a reaction, just to rebel.

BERMAN: Sure.

O'REILLY: A lot of parents say, “Listen, we don't want to normalize homosexuality in a public way in an academic setting, high school, among minors. We don't think that reflects” --

BERMAN: Why?

O'REILLY: -- “how we feel about it.” Well, for a number of reasons. One: social. It's much more difficult to be a homosexual than a heterosexual in America. Two: religious. There are people who believe that that kind of a lifestyle --

BERMAN: Sure.

O'REILLY: -- is against their religion, and they pass that on to their children.

BERMAN: Sure.

O'REILLY: Three: an exposition of sexuality in a minor -- and that's very important -- in a minor situation is inappropriate in an academic setting. All of those things are valid, Doctor, and they shouldn't be condescended to.

BERMAN: Sure. But we're not talking -- you're -- all of those things may be valid in certain populations, but we're not -- where you're getting stuck is assuming that validating or acknowledging homosexuality as a reality is somehow going to make homosexuality more likely to happen.

And what we do know is that homosexual teens are four times more likely to be seriously bullied, two times more likely than heterosexual kids to be significantly involved in drugs and alcohol and abuse drugs and alcohol, and six times more likely than heterosexual teens to have suicidal attempts.

And so, it's a huge at-risk population. Yes, there is experimentation, absolutely, but it's also very true that many teens are becoming very clear that they are seriously attracted to the same sex, not the opposite sex. And they have nowhere to turn.

O'REILLY: Well, I think --

BERMAN: They have no support systems.

O'REILLY: Look, I've been very consistent on this since my first book was written. I think private behavior belongs in private settings.

BERMAN: Right.

O'REILLY: I don't think it belongs in the high school yearbook.

BERMAN: But you'd be OK with the cutest couple, heterosexual couple, though?

O'REILLY: I would be, because that is the norm of society. See, it's the same gay-marriage thing. You have a 6 percent option here. Homosexuals, according to research, are 6 percent of the population. And, if you're basing --

BERMAN: But since minority --

O'REILLY: What?

BERMAN: But since African-Americans are a minority, would you have a problem with an African-American heterosexual couple as the cutest couple?

O'REILLY: No, because -- because race is not conduct. There's a difference between who you are and what you do. And that is another key --

BERMAN: So, you're judging homosexuality as poor conduct.

O'REILLY: Not judging -- I'm not judging anybody at anything. I'm telling you that there's a legitimate point of view that number one, you don't allow sexuality to intrude in your high school yearbook, because they're minors.

BERMAN: Right. This isn't about sexuality.

O'REILLY: Sure it is.

BERMAN: This is just a couple.

O'REILLY: This is a lesbian couple that was voted in there --

BERMAN: But they're not --

O'REILLY: -- because they're a lesbian couple.

BERMAN: But they're not flaunting their sexuality.

O'REILLY: How do you know?

BERMAN: They're just in love.

O'REILLY: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

BERMAN: In the picture, they're not flaunting their sexuality.

O'REILLY: How do you know they're not? You don't know that.

BERMAN: They're not flaunting their sexuality any more or any less than a heterosexual couple their age might.

O'REILLY: Look, Doctor, there's no reason why Brandy and Lupe had to declare themselves anything other than friends. They didn't have to do that. They chose to do that.

BERMAN: If they're in love -- but they have the same right to do that as any heterosexual couple does.

O'REILLY: It's not a matter -- it's a matter of appropriateness. That's what it's a matter of. And see, look --

BERMAN: But you're passing -- see where you're stuck is, you're passing judgment.

O'REILLY: You're dismissing all -- look, I'm not -- look, I don't want any kid to be bullied. I wrote Kids are Americans Too for gay kids who are getting bullied. They should read the book, know their rights. I don't want anything like that to happen.

BERMAN: Right.

O'REILLY: But you're dismissing a very legitimate point. This is inappropriate. You do not define yourself in a high school yearbook --

BERMAN: Only if you judge homosexuality as wrong.

O'REILLY: -- in a sexual way. Period. You don't do it.

BERMAN: And it's not wrong. These kids need support. And they need to know that it's OK to be who they are.

O'REILLY: Well, let them go to a support group run by you. It doesn't need to be --

BERMAN: Here I am. Add me in the yearbook.

O'REILLY: You know, you don't have to take out posters and put them on your front lawn.

BERMAN: Because they're supporting all the other kids that are stuck and hiding, now will feel safer.

O'REILLY: That's your extrapolation. Somebody else would say you're encouraging that kind of experimentation --

BERMAN: You can't encourage it.

O'REILLY: -- when you don't have to do it.

BERMAN: It happens anyway.

O'REILLY: All right, Doctor, that's the old argument. Let's legalize drugs because it happens anyway. There's got to be boundaries.

BERMAN: Drugs are not the same. Homosexuality is not illegal.

O'REILLY: But it -- you know what I'm talking about.

BERMAN: And it shouldn't be illegal.

O'REILLY: All right, always great to talk with you, by the way. Very good debate.

BERMAN: You too.