Joe Rogan comments on Lia Thomas’ genitals, spreads myth that competitors protested her win
Rogan pushed the false claim that a photo showed Thomas’ competitors protesting her victory when they were actually just taking a group photo
Written by Alex Paterson
Published
On the March 22 edition of his Spotify podcast, host Joe Rogan went on an anti-trans tirade against University of Pennsylvania swimmer Lia Thomas, including commenting on her genitals and spreading the false claim that the runners-up at the March 17 NCAA swimming competition protested Thomas’ win. Rogan also repeatedly misgendered Adm. Rachel Levine, the highest-ranking openly transgender official in the U.S. government, and said, “It seems kind of crazy when someone, like, really looks like a man and you can't even say that anymore.” The Joe Rogan Experience was the most popular podcast on Spotify in 2021 and 2020.
During his show, Rogan posited that Thomas’ participation in college athletics is potentially “causing more harm to the transgender cause than it is good because you're forcing this into society in a way that's going to make people resentful.” He appeared to have been talking in the context of a widely circulated photo of Thomas standing atop the winner’s podium after placing first in the 500-yard freestyle with the race’s second-, third-, and fourth-place competitors posing together on the third-place podium.
Some media outlets incorrectly interpreted the photo as a “protest.” In reality, the third-place finisher Erica Sullivan explained that the photo was “taken … out of context” and that she was simply “taking a picture with my closest friends from the Olympics” after “the group photo was taken.” Sullivan and fourth-place swimmer Brooke Forde have also publicly supported Thomas’ right to compete.
At one point, Rogan’s guest, comedian Monty Franklin, then commented on Thomas’ genitals, saying, “Did she go the full chop?” Rogan replied, “No. … So there's an issue there, right?”
Rogan has faced widespread backlash for spreading bigotry, medical misinformation, and right-wing lies on his Spotify podcast. But Spotify has determined that its newly published platform rules, which the company claims have been internally in place “for years,” do not prohibit numerous dangerous and unfounded claims spread on The Joe Rogan Experience. For example, Rogan has repeatedly suggested that social acceptance of trans people is a sign of “civilizations collapsing,” claimed that the omicron variant of the coronavirus is “essentially like a cold,” and falsely asserted that mRNA coronavirus vaccines are “really gene therapy.”
Right-wing media outlets and conservative politicians have relentlessly targeted both Levine and Thomas with anti-trans hate campaigns. On March 21, Fox News hosts Tucker Carlson and Jeannine Pirro launched anti-trans attacks against the two, with Carlson claiming Levine’s gender identity is “outrageous” and meant to “degrade the rest of us.”
(In accordance with the Trans Journalists Association style guide, Media Matters has replaced incorrect references to Levine’s gender in brackets in the transcript below. For example, if a transcript incorrectly refers to someone as “he,” we change that language to say "[she].")
Citation From the March 22, 2022, edition of Spotify's The Joe Rogan Experience
JOE ROGAN (HOST): The Babylon Bee just got their account suspended on Twitter because they said that Rachel Levine is the man of the year. Rachel Levine is the guy — well, was a guy, excuse me, became a woman and then became the first female like multi-starred admiral in the — I don't want to fuck this up.
…
So they call [her] the Man of the Year. Twitter says that it restored the account, which has more than 1.3 million followers if the Bee deletes the tweet. But the CEO, Seth Dillon, said he has no intention of doing so. He says “We are not deleting anything.” He tweeted from his personal account, “Truth is not hate speech. If the cost of telling the truth is the loss of our Twitter account, then so be it.” Well, I can understand if he said that that is not a woman that is a biological man. That's the truth. But when you say that [she's] the man of the year, that's not true. That's a joke. So it's not truth. It's a joke, right?
MONTY FRANKLIN (COMEDIAN): Yeah.
ROGAN: And but I don't think that joke is hate speech, either, I think it's a joke. I think if we're going to be really inclusive, meaning you know, you're going to accept people across the board for whoever they are or whatever they do, no matter what – which I think we should — you should be able to joke about things too. And if you can't joke that someone used to be a man, if you're not even allowed to talk about it anymore, now it's forbidden —
FRANKLIN: And you get in trouble for even questioning it.
ROGAN: It seems kind of crazy. It seems kind of crazy when someone, like, really looks like a man and you can't even say that anymore. Like, you're not allowed to bring it up? Like, OK, the swimmer, the swimmer from Penn State that's dominating and crushing records and just won the NCAA. Just won. No. 1 — was No. 400- something as a male. Was swimming as a male a fucking a year ago, becomes a woman, and now is No. 1. If you can't joke about that, you can't say well —
FRANKLIN: Well, did she go the full chop?
ROGAN: No.
FRANKLIN: Well that’s — I’m sorry that’s —
ROGAN: Here's another thing. So there's an issue there, right? But what is going on? You know, first of all, you have like you've gone through your entire puberty. You've gone through years and years of your body producing testosterone, which strengthens your tendons, your ligaments and your joints, your muscles, and all the — your lung capacity.
…
So all these women that had to compete against Lia, they all stood together on a podium. The second, third, and fourth girls all stood together, like, in unity, and then Lia was over there. So she's in the No. 1 position and there they all stood together in the No. 3 position and then the audience cheered for them and stuff. It's like, so it's just it's fucked.
FRANKLIN: So they should. It's fucking ridiculous.
ROGAN: Because look, I'm not saying you can't identify as a woman, be called a woman, be treated as a woman. I'm all for that. But when it comes to sports, when you're talking about physical performance, there's a reason why we have male categories and female categories. And when it's demonstrated that someone who was very recently a male has a significant advantage over the opponents to the point where they're breaking records, maybe that's not fair.
FRANKLIN: It's completely not fair, and it's not fair to —
ROGAN: Maybe you should be able to talk about that.
FRANKLIN: Maybe you should. Maybe we should bring it up, address it when maybe she's leading them by a hopeful lap.
ROGAN: Here's another point, maybe that's causing more harm to the transgender cause than it is good, because you're forcing this into society in a way that's going to make people resentful. And then there's some people that should be treated with dignity and respect that transition, they're now going to be considered in the same way that this person is considered where they think of her as a cheater. They think of her as like cheating against these other biological females. And until there's enough trans women where you can have a trans league, which you know would be interesting. Like that would be like a category. I don't think there's enough now to warrant that, but that's — that's part of the problem.
FRANKLIN: Has there been one case of it going the other way?
ROGAN: No.