MATT WALSH (HOST): But the problem here is bigger than infertility because surrogacy is not an appropriate or moral or justifiable response to infertility in any event. Surrogacy, especially commercial surrogacy, is arguably the most direct form of human commodification this side of slavery. It is the purchasing and renting of human bodies, organs, and body parts. And that's true regardless of your motivation for doing it. And we don't allow that kind of transaction in almost any other context. Federal law prohibits you from, like, selling your organs on eBay. You can't do that. Virtually every jurisdiction in this country outlaws prostitution. People are not chattel, and we generally recognize that. But in this one case, it's allowed because otherwise we're told that infertile couples and gay men wouldn't be able to have children. Therefore, it's worth the sacrifice of human embryos. It's worth turning a handful of poor countries like Georgia and Ukraine into surrogacy hubs. The women in those countries, you know, are selling their bodies for rent to foreigners who are looking for a lower rate compared to what they find in the United States because, you know, when you're looking to rent a woman's body, you shop around for the best deal you can find. And a lot of couples, particularly gay couples, are taking advantage of those discount offers.