From the August 5, 2020, edition of The Joe Rogan Experience

DEBRA SOH (AUTHOR): And also, this whole conversation about conversion therapy when there is no such thing as conversion therapy for gender identity. There's conversion therapy for sexual orientation, which I don't support because it's unethical and doesn't work. But if a clinician sits down with a child who says that they want to be the opposite sex or they’re gender dysphoric, and they ask them “what else is going on in your life” to better understand that, that's called conversion therapy now. And now that's being banned. I think that's been banned in something like 20 states. So, now, clinicians again can’t do their job. That's a critical part of figuring out who's going to benefit from transitioning. 

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SOH: And now this is being written into law. It's called conversion therapy because it it sounds scary. It's not -- it's not the same thing as conversion therapy for sexual orientation because, again, sexual orientation is biological, so it can't be changed. But for gender, for young children especially who say they feel like they're the opposite sex, gender is, is -- that can change over time, as we see in the research that they will outgrow those feelings. So it's not appropriate to call that conversion therapy because that's a natural process that would have happened on its own. So for a clinician to sit down and just try to understand that, it should not be seen as somehow harmful, right? But it is seen as harmful. It's seen as abusive.