ED ROGERS (Republican consultant): Hey, I love Senator [Trent] Lott [MS]. I am a Republican that underestimates Hillary Clinton. I think [Florida Gov.] Jeb Bush would beat her like a rented mule. She's not going to get elected president.
MATTHEWS: Rented mule.
ROGERS: I hope she is our ...
MATTHEWS: Where do you get these Southern metaphors?
ROGERS: From the South.
MATTHEWS: A rented mule?
ROGERS: You rent a mule, you don't take care of it.
MATTHEWS: OK, Bob Shrum, do you think Hillary's going to be beaten like a rented mule by Jeb Bush?
BOB SHRUM (Democratic strategist): I think that's a pretty tired metaphor, you know, and I agree with Trent Lott. He accidentally committed the truth. The name Bush is going to be poison in the presidential politics of 2008.
ROGERS: He's not running, he's not running.
SHRUM: Ed, let me finish. I let you finish. The last thing this country wants is another four or eight years of a Bush administration. The only way he'd have any chance at all is if John McCain did a deal with the president and picked the president's brother as his vice-presidential running mate.
ROGERS: Sounds like Bob is afraid of Jeb Bush to me.
MATTHEWS: OK, I'm still hanging in there for a McCain-Giuliani ticket. Anyway, you know what? I think the country may be a little tired of the Bushes and the Clintons, Bob Shrum.
Anyway, thank you, Bob Shrum and Ed Rogers. Up next, the former CIA boss in Europe talks about the president's nominee to run the agency. They call it the agency or the company, inside. Can one man make a difference? We're going inside the CIA in the next couple minutes and talk about what's going on there. Are they protecting us? You're watching Hardball on MSNBC.