On Deadline: White House, Angelo Carusone explains how right-wing media's reaction to Abrego Garcia shows cracks in Trump’s narrative dominance
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From the April 17, 2025, edition of MSNBC's Deadline: White House
NICOLLE WALLACE (HOST): Where's the hope? And I guess the hope is, is sort of where, where Ann left us and where Andrew is sort of storytelling for us now with this latest ruling that where these sweeping efforts to remake every corner of American life, run against the law, that that the courts will hold.
ANGELO CARUSONE (GUEST): Yeah, that's one place of hope. And we really do need them to be firm, especially in this moment, because, you know, as we talk about all these things in the moment, I try to always look on the horizon, both for opportunities for hope, for things to grab onto, and also for things to avoid and to be aware of. And, you know, we -- this showdown is sort of a small example of what is very likely to come in the next few weeks.
It's worth remembering that we're coming up to the deadline, where the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security have to issue their memo to Donald Trump regarding the implementation of the Insurrection Act, which was one of the first executive orders that he signed when he first came into office, a hallmark of Project 2025 and something that he acted on right away. So that's coming up, and we're likely to have a very big showdown about that soon, so we do need the courts to hold up. And this is obviously, you know, an important and positive sign.
There was another thing Andrew said, though, that I think is -- I'm not sure, it's so strange to describe this as hope, but it is an example of where there can be opportunity and maybe some hope if we can nurture it. He was pointing out that these things are bedrocks of traditionally conservative ideals or in these cases, some libertarian ideals. And then I look at the right-wing media and the right-wing media, broadly speaking. And as we talked about, they have narrative dominance, so they get to shape the story and misshape it, you know, so it doesn't reflect reality.
But one thing that has happened, especially on this Garcia case, is that there are cracks. Joe Rogan is one of the few places where he is not just separating from Trump a little bit, where he is actively pushing for an alternative approach here and criticizing the administration for what they're doing. And I think that to me is the opportunity that we should nurture that and those cracks and those examples because that is one place where we all do broadly agree still as Americans.
I mean, you know, part of the reason why some of their efforts have been successful is because they cloaked themselves in the veneer of free speech. They say, "We're doing these things to protect free speech," even though it's everything opposite of that. But just that surface level is enough to rally a lot of people. There are a few touchstones that still hold us together as Americans, due process, innocent until proven guilty, those things, they are touchstones. And I think that is reflected right now in that broader right-wing media space.
So there's going to be a cohort that's with Trump all the way because they know authoritarianism is actually the goal and they're happy with it. But then there's another bucket that helped bring him into office where if this is something that can be nurtured, those are real cracks that he would have to respond to. And that may help create a little bit of a topple for some of those other political forces, or at least some cover, to reduce the fear that Murkowski had referenced because I do think that fear is obviously widespread. So in a weirdly enough, in this moment, Rogan and sort of people at the next layers underneath him in the right-wing media space, they are an illustration of an opportunity and helping reinforce and buttress the courts on this matter and maybe some others.