MARTHA MACCALLUM (HOST): No one is saying that all 11 million people are capable of what this person is capable of, but put yourself in Mollie Tibbetts' family's shoes right now. It's bad enough to learn that someone who was living and working in your neighborhood murdered your beautiful daughter, it's worse when you find out that they crossed the border illegally, that they're not even supposed to be in the country. There's a process for coming into the country, there's people waiting on line from many countries who are going through the proper process. So the fact of the matter is that he shouldn't have been here and that adds to their pain and it adds to how awful the situation is.
GERALDO RIVERA: The family of Mollie Tibbetts, I am so glad that you brought it up, Martha. They have gone out of their way, the cousin now is on social media, the friends of the family are all saying Mollie Tibbetts would be horrified by the fact that this case is being used as an argument against unlawful immigration. They would be horrified, she wasn't that person. Anyone could have done this, everyone -- they do it on a daily basis. White people, black people, red people, yellow people. Everybody, they do these crimes. It is horrible that they do these crimes.
MACCALLUM: But everyone understands that, Geraldo and I respect the family obviously and whatever they want to say on this matter, they are free to say and to speak out obviously in any way they want. But the fact of the matter is that he was here illegally and for some people, that -- they look at that and they say look, this is just another indicator, we have a terrible lax process at our border. It doesn't work and this person shouldn't have been here. He's not here legally.
RIVERA: We are putting that spin, we at this network are putting that spin on this story.
MACCALLUM: It's not spin, it's a fact, it’s a fact.
RIVERA: This is a murder story, this is not an immigration story. It is a fact, if we're talking facts --
MACCALLUM: It's a fact that he was here illegally, is it not?
RIVERA: It's a fact that from the Pew Research Center and every other objective story, and in today's New York Times for example, it is proven that the undocumented immigrants commit fewer crimes per capita than citizen Americans.
MACCALLUM: That's absolutely right, I looked at those numbers this morning, it doesn't change the bottom line which is that this person who killed this woman was here illegally.
