Angelo Carusone on Deadline: White House: We've only seen the beginning of what Russ Vought and Project 2025 want to do to the country
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From the February 2, 2024, edition of MSNBC's Deadline: White House
NICOLLE WALLACE (HOST): Angelo, I start with you.
ANGELO CARUSONE (MEDIA MATTERS PRESIDENT): I mean, the thing I would just remind everyone is that this is all terrible. We all accept that. But just to keep in mind some perspective.
If this is a marathon, we're barely at the first mile mark. And and I'm not saying that to be dramatic. It's just that they said what they were going to do in advance, and they well documented it. I mean, Russ Vought isn't even in OMB yet, officially. And before he got there, he was very clear that they have 350 documents already prepared to roll out that include all these sorts of plans.
And then when you overlay what's happening right now, this is sort of like starting the process, greasing the wheels of the machinery that this larger plan is designed to then implement.
You got to get things going. You got to get things started. And so what Musk is doing is through a combination of practice and experience, force of will, and obviously ties with the administration, he is just going in there and breaking, moving, and creating as much kinetic energy, and then breaking up as much inertia that existed in these bureaucracies so that it's a lot easier -- and to not just do all the things they're doing now, but what's the end goal? It's actually to either replace it or eliminate a whole bunch of these government functions.
And so that's why I just note that we're at the beginning, not the end. This is going to be a long curve, and we just need to steal ourselves for that reality.
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WALLACE: Angelo, you've read the book up and down. What is next?
CARUSONE: I mean, the thing that I would say is next is a few things. One, they are going to eliminate the Department of Education.
Once they start to move their people into the FBI and other Justice Department roles -- and that's something to keep in mind now, we're in the early stages of the purges, of the firings, of the removals of staff. Then once they shrink that down, they're going to replace it with intense loyalists. So, you were talking earlier about before, the people that are working with Elon Musk and DOGE, that's just a half a dozen people. Now magnify that by a hundred because that's what they plan on rolling into key and pivotal roles across the board.
So, aside from the Department of Education elimination, they'll start rolling through and breaking other independent agencies. And that's the first prong in all of this, is to go after all of these agencies that they previously identified as independent. That's as much about the programs that those groups did as it is about establishing power within the executive branch.
There's a reason why they're making it clear that Marco Rubio is the acting director of USAID.
They're reinforcing this idea that any agency, any entity that used to be considered independent is no longer. So, they're going to keep reinforcing that authority.
And then the third is, I mean, you talk about this in the segment right before ours, is that it's not just -- when it comes to the FBI, there's going to be the purge and the removals, but then they're going to start going after individuals, when they replace them with their loyalists. And that to me is the next step in all this, and it ties in with what David was discussing before is that this is sort of the beginning of this constitutional crisis. And the first step is to sort of consolidate and integrate all of that power into one place and neutralize any of the things that would serve as counterbalances.
And so in this moment, as people are mad at Republicans in Congress and -- I mean, Democrats in Congress, and I get the frustration -- but we also have to appeal to and and also be frustrated with Republicans too. We've all sort of, you know, not this group, but but broadly speaking, we've long, too long accepted that Republicans in congress, you know, don't have to be held to the same account -- it just says, like, basic responsibilities in government. We see this a lot when the debt ceiling fight comes up. It's always like, well, "What are Democrats going to do to prevent Republicans from destroying the government or the economy or whatever?" We just presume that they're not going to be doing their work effectively and don't have some larger obligation than to their party and their selfish political interest.
And I do think it's important that we start weaving that narrative back in because that's a really critical counterbalance in this moment. But that's what's next.