BILL O’REILLY (HOST): So, Mr. Ring, I read a column that you wrote. You don’t support Kate’s Law. I’ll give you a chance to tell me why. 

KEVIN RING: Well, thanks Bill. I just want to say at the outset that I do not support open borders. I don't want to defend Harry Reid. And I think, you know, I worked for Pat Buchanan in 1992, the original Trump. I worked for Attorney General John Ashcroft. I believe borders security is important. I think borders define our country and our culture. And as a father of young children, if what happened to Mr. Steinle happened to my family I would be mortified. So if I were in Congress I would have done anything I could to prevent this senseless tragedy. But for that reason I would have opposed Kate's law because of all the options out there -- defunding sanctuary cities, building a wall, enforcing our treaty with Mexico to keep returned prisoners -- I think Kate's law is the worst idea. I think it's dumb. I think it's counterproductive. And I think it would make us less safe. 

O’REILLY: Okay. Let me read what you said in your column. Quote, “do we really need to lock up even those re-enter here illegally in an effort to flee religious persecution by ISIS or to donate a kidney to a blood relative? No one even thought to ask.” But that's what the mandatory minimum would do. But that's not what the mandatory minimum would do. It's only about aggravated felons. So you mislead everyone in your column. 

RING: No. No. The bill was changed. 

O’REILLY: No. The law was not changed.

RING: Yes it was.

O’REILLY: No it wasn’t. When this proposed, and Ted Cruz and I worked together on it, it was always about aggravated felons and it is now. And you just said on this program that even though it's about aggravated felons, you would not support them getting a mandatory federal prison sentence. First of all, you mislead everybody, and second of all, your reasoning doesn't make any sense.

RING: No, you mislead everybody because when you originally proposed this idea you said for anybody who re-enters the country they should get a mandatory minimum five years. 

O’REILLY: We were very explicit that it was violent criminal aliens.

RING: No. No. that wasn’t workable. So Congress originally proposed--

O’REILLY: Wasn’t workable? What does that mean?

RING: Well Congressman Sam and another took your idea. They crowed about how they introduced your idea and it didn’t any exception. It didn’t require that they keep it violent felonies.

O’REILLY: Well we're not talking about that. Because from the very beginning it was aggravated felons, which it was yesterday. 

RING: No. 

O’REILLY: And you’re still opposed. Look, Mr. Ring, cut through the bull. You still oppose aggravated felons? 

RING: Right. 

O’REILLY: You still do. 

RING: Because you know what an aggravated felony is? It is not just a violent crime. That could be failure to appear in court. That could be a fraud offense.

O’REILLY: No it's not.

RING: Yes, it can be. 

O’REILLY: Aggravated means there is some kind of violence attached to it. It could be drug dealing, hard drug dealing is aggravated. 

RING: No. That just means you don't know what's in the statute because the immigration law defines what's an aggravated felony, and so it could be failure to appear. And all --

O’REILLY: This all defined it would be a violent offender and it’d have to be a conviction of such, a felony conviction. Look, Mr. Ring, I have got to tell you and I’m not going to say it with all due respect. You lied in your original column and you’re lying tonight. And I'm going to leave you now because you are not an honest man and we don't like that on The Factor. All right? Thanks for coming on. 

Related:

Kevin Ring: 'Kate’s Law’ Reflects Our Worst Policy-Making Instincts

Previously:

Bill O'Reilly: “We Will Deal With” Any Senator That Votes Against Kate's Law

Bill O'Reilly Warns He Is “Coming After” Republican Who Did Not Support His “Kate's Law”

Fox News Is Furious That Bill O'Reilly's “Kate's Law” Failed To Pass The Senate