STEVE HILTON (HOST): Joe, I'll just ask you to jump straight in there and respond to the conversation I was just having with Bernie and this incident in Atlanta.
JOE ESTED: Yes, sir. Bernie Kerik and [NYPD police union head] Pat Lynch is exactly why taxpayers have paid out over a billion dollars in police misconduct. There's no accountability. Did you hear what he said? He put all the emphasis on the untrained civilian. As a police officer, what I would like individuals to come and comply? Yes I would, what officer wouldn't. But that's why we as police officers have training, have policy, have procedures. The officers did not follow the use of force continuum.
When it comes to use of force, two things have to exist. The officer has to feel, right, that the presence of -- he has to look at it and say look, my life or the life or someone else is about to be lost at this very moment and there's no other options. We are looking at a taser that was taken from the officer. And if anybody knows and law enforcement knows that the taser, it has two positions. It has the prongs that extend out which the cartridge was already dispensed so there was no threat that he would get hit by a prong because it was already dispensed. Now there's what's called a dry tase, the officer has to now put the actual tase on the subject and to press to get the effect you would want from a taser. Individual running from you is not a use of force scenario. It's not. Bernie Kerik just said that he was in fear of his life. How are you going to be in fear of your life as an officer when the subject is distanced away and the only danger that taser can actually play is if the subject turns all the way around, comes up to the officer, and actually puts the taser on him.
HILTON: Well, I think --
ESTED: The community right now is screaming for accountability for bad policing. That's called bad policing what we just witnessed. Bad policing.
HILTON: Well, I think --
ESTED: I've been a part of aggressive units -- I've been a part of aggressive units -- guns and drugs. I chase people with weapons, and you have to follow your training. You have to follow your protocol. That's why we train.
HILTON: Can I just ask? Joe, I'm sorry, we don't have too much time, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to take that point, put a line under this incident by I think saying, repeating another thing Bernie said, which is this is why we need an investigation that needs to be really clear about the facts and exactly what everyone was thinking at every stage.
But I want to go quickly to the broader point about police reform, because I've seen you make some comments about that, particularly about the bill that the Democrats published in the House last week and I think our audience would be really interested in your perspective on their proposals for reforming the police.
