Election denier behind “Pence Card” theory says he’s coordinating with far-right sheriffs group to get “a little bit of retribution”

Written by Alex Kaplan

Published

Updated

In an X Space that included discussion about grassroots mobilizing for the campaign of Donald Trump, Ivan Raiklin, a former military officer who tried to overturn the 2020 presidential election with his “Pence Card” plan, claimed that he was “brainstorming” with the head of a far-right sheriffs group about “getting a little bit of retribution.”

Raiklin was reportedly involved with former national security adviser Michael Flynn’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Flynn’s family has denied being involved with Raiklin, despite Flynn previously lauding him as a “digital soldier,” a term often used by QAnon supporters to describe themselves and which Raiklin has himself apparently invoked. 

The “Pence Card” refers to the theory that then-Vice President Mike Pence could have effectively blocked the January 6, 2021, certification of the 2020 election results. That theory was subsequently embraced by Trump, who in December 2020 retweeted Raiklin pushing the Pence Card theory, activity which was later noted by the House January 6 Committee. Around this time, the former military officer agreed with a QAnon influencer that a military coup could be an option to overturn the 2020 election.

Raiklin also claimed to have contacted multiple members of Congress to push his plan. 

During a June 7 X Space, which was seemingly hosted by a QAnon supporter, Raiklin presented his ideas on how to get “a little bit of retribution,” suggesting they needed to use “phases of the operation” like releasing “evidence” of the supposed crimes of what another participant called “deep state individuals” and then using the “raw power” of sheriffs to make arrests.

In response to Ben Moore — who is a QAnon influencer known online as “Sun Tzu” and a member of Flynn’s organization America’s Future — asking Raiklin what kinds of “trials” he would conduct if he was “deputized tomorrow to carry out arrests,” Raiklin suggested that arrests or trials would not happen “until we get the evidence to the court of public opinion, the American jury pool, en masse.”

Ivan Raiklin answering question from QAnon influencer about "trials" for perceived enemies

From a June 7, 2024, Twitter/X Space

BEN MOORE (QANON INFLUENCER): The question I’m getting: Let’s assume you were deputized tomorrow to carry out arrests. What would it look like from a practical standpoint? Who would be the ultimate judge and jury in these trials? Would it be like a military tribunal or are you calling for like a judicial or are you calling for a civilian tribunal, something instituted under the Constitution of the republic? Practically speaking, what would that look like? Because I keep getting that question. I just wanted to let you answer.

IVAN RAIKLIN: Yeah. Everyone gets the salacious, you know, climax of the movie. That doesn’t happen until we get the evidence to the court of public opinion, the American jury pool, en masse.

Later on, Raiklin described the other “phases of the operation,” claiming that he “had a long conversation with Sheriff [Richard] Mack yesterday.” Mack is a former Oath Keepers board member and founder of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA), which falsely claims that sheriffs are the highest law of the land, superseding any federal or state authority. Raiklin noted that “we were quote, unquote, brainstorming Sun Tzu’s ultimate, let’s just say, climax to the phased approach of getting a little bit of retribution.”

Ivan Raiklin saying he spoke with Richard Mack about "getting a little bit of retribution"

From a June 7, 2024, Twitter/X Space

IVAN RAIKLIN: And just like the FBLie, what do they do when they go after someone? They pull all of their digital assets. Well, why can’t our counties and states do the same thing, especially when the entire country is clamoring and demanding it? Particularly now that they’ve woken up in response to what Chubby Bragg over in Manhattan and Chubby Willis down in Fulton County are doing, right? Obesity kills, and truth sometimes also does that through the lawful process.

…

RAIKLIN: The last thing I’ll say on that is I had a long conversation with Sheriff [Richard] Mack yesterday as we were quote, unquote, brainstorming Sun Tzu’s ultimate, let’s just say, climax to the phased approach of getting a little bit of retribution. So you can't just think of something and not basically plan and execute via phases of the operation. So I’m trying — I’m working the problem, and I am getting a lot of inbound traffic. So I’m doing the best I can.

Earlier this month, a newly formed militia group organized by far-right media figures claimed that it would be working “in collaboration with” CSPOA, though Mack has denied involvement with the militia.

During the Space, Raiklin also urged people to “help identify and motivate” sheriffs who were “maybe in the ballpark of” carrying out arrests, and to “find out the five people that influence that individual the most” in order to give them “the necessary impetus and motivation to take that bold step” of arresting those supposed “deep state individuals.”

Correction (12/4/24): This piece originally misidentified the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association as the Constitutional Sheriffs and Police Officers Association.