On the July 10 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, discussing that day's shake-up in Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign -- in which several high-profile aides left the campaign -- host Chris Matthews said, “Let me -- let me be -- let's get into the really worst part of my job, which is to talk about what happens if he does continue to sink.”
Matthews went on to assert, “You know, if you look at it on paper, here's a guy who's more seasoned than the current president, President Bush. He's got more military experience. He's been around a long time in terms of national responsibility. He's been a patriot, of course.” Matthews added: “He served his country brutally as a POW. He's always been honest and respected in the media. He has all the pluses in the world of a sort of a, you know, an Audie Murphy, if you will, a real war hero. It's not working."
Matthews said that during Republican debates, McCain was “miniaturized by standing among 10 Republicans, a man of his seasoning and vintage to have to go out there and stand between [Tom] Tancredo and Duncan Hunter and all these new guys.” NBC chief foreign correspondent Andrea Mitchell agreed, adding, “You're on to something, Chris. If he was standing with Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, you know, just a handful of guys, stacked up against them, his experience in foreign affairs, his experience in the Senate, I think, would really dominate a debate.”
From the July 10 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: I'll try it with Andrea. You know, if you look at it on paper, here's a guy who's more seasoned than the current president, President Bush. He's got more military experience. He's been around a long time in terms of national responsibility. He's been a patriot, of course. He served his country brutally as a POW. He's always been honest and respected in the media. He has all the pluses in the world of a sort of a, you know, an Audie Murphy, if you will, a real war hero. It's not working.
MITCHELL: It isn't working. And I wouldn't count him out if -- except for the money factor because now, everything has piled up. And this race is so extraordinarily expensive that it's hard to imagine how he can compete. We've seen already how Mitt Romney was able to pull ahead of some of the others just by putting ads up. And John McCain --
MATTHEWS: Well, one of his top guys was talking to me --
MITCHELL: -- doesn't have that kind of money.
MATTHEWS: I'm sorry. One of his top guys was talking to me on the phone today, and we -- it was off the record, but I think he's out elsewhere making the same point, which is this burn rate. He's using up his money too much. Is that a problem?
MITCHELL: And that could have something to do with what we saw today, the staff shakeup. These are the people who were in charge of the money, and they were obviously spending it on the wrong things or spending too much, or there's another story there. But there's some concern, clearly, about the way this campaign is organized.
CRAWFORD: You know, they rejected --
MITCHELL: -- I do know that --
CRAWFORD: They rejected this, but I think the idea of him quitting the Senate and showing he's fully in this race is not such a bad idea. Now, that was rejected --
MATTHEWS: Didn't help Bob Dole any.
MITCHELL: Oh, I don't know. This --
CRAWFORD: That was rejected, but --
MITCHELL: This man's life is in public service. How could you imagine him quitting the Senate?
MATTHEWS: He's not giving up --
[crosstalk]
MITCHELL: I mean, he's such a long shot for the presidency.
[crosstalk]
MATTHEWS: Andrea, you and I are in the same boat. This man wants to be Barry Goldwater, a senator for life from Arizona. He does not -- it's one of the reasons why he wants immigration reform. He wants to get some Latino votes down there. He doesn't want to be known as the Republican Party that doesn't like Latinos.
MITCHELL: And he believes in it.
MATTHEWS: He's taken a very liberal position. Well, he does believe in it. But also, it's good politics for a guy like him.
CRAWFORD: My point is there's a real feeling he's not fully in this race. He only held two fund-raisers in the first quarter. That's been part of his problem. He hasn't really been committed to fundraising. So his commitment to the campaign is in question.
MATTHEWS: There he is. Look what we're watching -- this is so instructive. Andrea, we're watching him just a moment ago, sort of get -- do one of -- what they call the mike check for one of these debates. I think he's miniaturized by standing among 10 Republicans, a man of his seasoning and vintage, to have to go out there and stand between Tancredo and Duncan Hunter and all these new guys.
MITCHELL: You're on to --
MATTHEWS: I don't think it works.
MITCHELL: You're on to something, Chris. If he was standing with Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney, you know, just a handful of guys, stacked up against them, his experience in foreign affairs, his experience in the Senate, I think, would really dominate a debate.
MATTHEWS: Yeah.
MITCHELL: But by having to, you know, debate everybody else in that lineup, it becomes much more difficult to stand out.
CRAWFORD: Well, he's going to New Hampshire this weekend, so we'll see if he shows us something a little different.
MATTHEWS: Let me -- let me be -- let's get into the really worst part of my job, which is to talk about what happens if he does continue to sink. Andrea, who wins? Who picks up the McCain vote? Does it all go to Fred Thompson, his friend? Does it go to his fellow maverick, Rudy Giuliani -- or not exactly fellow maverick, but a man who he has some things in common with, Rudy Giuliani?