KATY TUR (HOST): The science is there and you can't -- it's hard to argue with the science. When you look at the report that was put out by the U.N., the congressional report that was put out, the science says that if swift action is not taken and big actions are not taken quickly then we're not going to be in a good position in 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 years. That we don't have the luxury of coming up with a slow, a slow easing into new energy sources and a slow easing into a new version of our economy. The science does not make the argument that you're making, Bret.
BRET STEPHENS: Well, I mean look, what you're saying in effect is that we need to go on something like a war footing against a climate change --
TUR: That's what the science is saying. That's what the U.N. scientists are saying. That's not me; that's what people who study this are saying. They are alarmist.
STEPHENS: Well hang on, let's separate it. This is something like a question of there could be a fire in your house, we have to take out fire insurance. That is a sensible thing to say.
HEATHER MCGHEE: Fight the fire.
STEPHENS: What you can't say is we're going to bankrupt ourselves in the process of insuring ourselves against the potential risk.
