Unearthed video: Project 2025 director said project has “great” relationship with Trump and he’s “very bought in with this”

Written by Eric Hananoki

Published

Paul Dans, a former Trump administration official and the director of Project 2025, told a right-wing podcast last year that his group has a “great” relationship with former President Donald Trump, and “Trump's very bought in with this.” His comments fly in the face of Trump’s recent attempts to distance himself from Project 2025. 

Project 2025, which is organized by right-wing think tank The Heritage Foundation, states that “Dans directs Heritage’s 2025 Presidential Transition Project, organizing policy and personnel recommendations and training for appointees in the next presidential administration. Prior to joining Heritage, Dans served in the Trump Administration as Chief of Staff at the U.S. Office of Personnel Management.” 

Media Matters has heavily documented the extreme nature of Project 2025. Notably, Heritage Foundation president and key Project 2025 figure Kevin Roberts recently sparked heavy criticism when he said, “We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be.” 

Following the controversy, Trump attempted to distance himself from the Heritage plan and has repeatedly claimed, “I know nothing about Project 2025.” But media outlets including Media Matters have documented the numerous connections between the project and the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. 

Dans himself appears to have contradicted Trump’s claim that he knows nothing about the project. During a podcast interview that aired on May 20, 2023, the Project 2025 director assured a pro-Trump host that “we've had great relationships” with Trump and other Republicans, adding that “ultimately, yes. I think, you know, President Trump's very bought in with this.” 

From the May 20, 2023, edition of We the People Convention News & Opinion

TOM ZAWISTOWSKI (HOST): I'm taking heart of the fact that Paul, you and Spencer [Chretien, associate director of Project 2025], you know, obviously worked for President Trump. So is it alright for us to, you know, to assume that President Trump, you know, is committed to the Project 2025 so that if we go through the effort of recruiting all these people and vetting them and training them, that he will, you know, say, “OK, when I'm elected, you know, these are my people”? And have you reached out to DeSantis and Vivek and, you know, whoever else is out there so that they're buying into this as well because, obviously, that's critical?

PAUL DANS (PROJECT 2025 DIRECTOR): Absolutely. Though our project is what we call candidate-neutral or candidate-agnostic. It's there to serve the next conservative standard bearer, whoever that might be. Very important though in that is making sure the various candidates are aware of what we're doing, are bought in.

And, of course, we've had great relationships with all three of those that you mentioned and other campaigns as well. You know, I think, overall, like you explained, the left does this full-time, all the time. Conservatives though have let this, they've waited on this to happen of May of the election year. Typically, the campaign itself starts a little transition team. And as they're at the same time trying to win the office of the president, they have another group trying to come up with the plan. What we've done here is rethought the whole operation with Heritage, you know, kind of being more of a neutral with respect to candidates, but rounding up the entire conservative movement and saying we're going to do all this vetting, all this identification of people, the training of them. We're going to draft a lot of these executive orders that take, you know, months and months of time and basically allow you — you know, offer these to you when you get there. 

So ultimately, yes. I think, you know, President Trump's very bought in with this. We're fortunate to have John McEntee, who many of your listeners may know was, he was, helmed the Office of Presidential Personnel in what I would call the fourth quarter of the first term of Trump. But he is one of our senior advisers. We have other senior advisers who were very close to the governor and, you know, all the other teams, Vivek.

During an appearance last month on Steve Bannon's War Room program, Dans said that Project 2025 is the “instruction manual” for a second Trump administration. He has also told the Australian Financial Review he thinks Trump  “will adopt” many of the project's ideas. He has additionally defended the fake electors scheme.